[RobinKay]

Originally Posted by hkolln

Sometimes you have to set aside your anger and emotions for the kids...don't let the anger ruin your life or his life. He may want that connection to them later on. Step back from the situation and see it from his eyes..is what you are doing best for him OR is this something that is best for you? When it's time you'll know.

Our niece's previous foster grandma mailed her a card and letter back about a month after she moved here with us with a list of "Things I miss about you" which included stuff like, 'You yelling for your friends to come over to my house', 'you spending the night at my house', 'bike rides with you', etc...and it was long. I made the decision not to show that to her at that time because it would make her feel guilty for causing the fgrandma to grieve. I explained to them that as long as it's positive notes and calls and letters, etc...then we would be happy to pass them onto her. We understand they love her however they needed to have space to let her move forward into our family. I'm hoping this trip next week will be a postive one. It will be interesting to see how it goes. I've always been a positive person and avoid negativity...so I'm sure everything will be fine

Initially we were all planning to stay in touch. I hugged them both after court and told them they were the "hanai" aunty and uncle--that means not "real" relatives but relatives by love. I sent pictures, a letter. Their two phone calls were very inappropriate and upset him very much--the guilt thing you described, the intense I love you I miss you over and over.

The contact was not positive like you described the letter from fostergrandma. Lil guy got a letter like that from them along with 99 pictures from them. We threw away most of the pictures, sent back the letter and some of the pictures--it was all so inappropriate. That's when we cut off contact. We tried for four and a half months. We had asked for a few pictures for his life book.

Lil guy expressed anger that they tried to keep him and that he did not want to stay with them. Occasionally he would say something positive, so I know it wasn't an awful place. He just did not feel the connection they felt and it put pressure on him while he was there and they tried to keep up the pressure once he was with us.

When we went back to Florida he did not even mention them, but did mention the first foster family and asked to see them. (That was not possible as they literally threw him out of their home due to their marital difficulties.)

If there was any contact it would be me sending a newsy letter and perhaps a picture, with a clear statement that it was not an invitation to be in contact with lil guy. The therapist and my counselor said it will not benefit him to be in touch with them. We thought about this a lot, and even the supervisor at the foster licensing agency said they were inappropriate and suggested that everyone just needs to move on.

Contact with them would be due to dh and I being kind. It would not be in lil guy's best interests for him to know about it. In future, if he is curious, it would be nice if the door had remained open. You are right about that.

I will continue to think about this--perhaps we'll exchange Christmas cards and send the general letter we send to all friends with perhaps a picture of lil guy.

thank you again, hkollen, I have learned so much from you. I hope you trip is a positive experience for everyone.

[Mom2blessings]

Originally Posted by RobinKay

It scares me to know this is happening everywhere, to so many children, especially when it's an ICPC. An ICPC takes forever!!

RobinKay, In my experiece with foster care, which admittedly is not much, it is RARE that birth families want the kids. I know that's not always the case, but I do think it's the case the majority of the time. I've had maybe 20 kids in my home this past year (mostly emergency or respite care), and only 1 child had family that wanted him. He was the 8th child of the birth mother, and her sister had already taken of her kids. She had several of her own and lived in low income housing. She could not afford to keep taking the children. They just happen to find a relative on the father's side who was already a foster parent. I was sad to not adopt him, but glad it was a relative placement.

[hkolln]

We are here in Idaho right now...have been since Saturday evening. So far the previous FP's have been very gracious to us and it has gone VERY well We are going bowling tonight and tomorrow we'll be visiting until we have to get packed for our trip to WA state to visit relatives. I was worried about it all causing issues but it has actually brought us all together as an extended family and it feels good for our niece (her seeing we can all get along and have fun!)...

Our niece is having some issues with it (minor ones) and got upset yesterday and we talked about it. I know it's confusing for her. As long as she can talk to us about it all then it will help. She said to us yesterday "It feels like they are visiting us and we're not visiting them." I'm not sure what that means however she seems to be taking it better then we expected.

[athikers]

This has nothing to do specifically with the transition to living with birth family, but I see it discussed here as it has been several places.

I have seen this said many times on this forum about notes from former family (foster or bio) being inappropriate if they say "I love you and I miss you". I say that in every single letter to my two pre-adoptive kiddos that went on to live with birth family and I don't think its inappropriate. I don't wallow in it. But, I want them to know they are loved and missed. And, when they left, they left with scrapbooks of their time here containing hundreds and hundreds of pictures. I also don't think that's a bad thing, its a record for them of their time here. One is too young to remember so without the book, he would have no "memory" of us and we were a very important part of his life for awhile. He deserves to know, when he is older that he was well-cared for and loved during the time he was not with his family.

I do "get" that if it is traumatizing the communication should stop. And I've told their birth family repeatedly that if they want us to stop sending letters, they just need to say so and we will honor their request.

[Aminah]

Originally Posted by Mom2blessings

RobinKay, In my experiece with foster care, which admittedly is not much, it is RARE that birth families want the kids. I know that's not always the case, but I do think it's the case the majority of the time. I've had maybe 20 kids in my home this past year (mostly emergency or respite care), and only 1 child had family that wanted him. He was the 8th child of the birth mother, and her sister had already taken of her kids. She had several of her own and lived in low income housing. She could not afford to keep taking the children. They just happen to find a relative on the father's side who was already a foster parent. I was sad to not adopt him, but glad it was a relative placement.

Mom2blessings, I appreciate your insight regarding the rarity of birth families stepping forward on behalf of their family members. I have been wondering about this topic for a long time and why the agency I am working with was taken aback by my families persistence.

I am currently going through the process of adopting my nephew. It has been a very stressful process for my family and me. My family currently cares for 7 out of 8 of my sister’s children. We were able to get 4 of them out of foster care with no problem and placed into my mother’s care. The 5th child my sister V was able to get straight from the hospital without a fight. The 6th child was taken into foster care. My family had to fight to get him out of foster care and my sister V finally adopted him. The 7th child was taken straight from the hospital without him entering foster care. Now comes the 8th child… he was placed into foster care from a prison hospital. My family didn’t know what to do initially b/c my sister A was being uncooperative and claimed her boyfriend, the bf, was coming to get the 8th child W. He did not and therefore the child was placed in foster care in PA in July of 2006.

It was my understanding that relative placements were to be considered first according to the state statute. My mother was contacted and did not want to take custody considering she was caring for 4 already along with her daughter, making it 5. However, my grandparents or my sister were not contacted. The agency was aware of their existence and that they were currently caring from part of the sibling group.

My sister A was released from prison in September of 2006 and immediately contacted the agency. She began complying with her case plan and having visitations with W. She was making progress until around July 2007 when she broke contact.

Meanwhile, my grandparents contacted the agency inquiring about my nephew and reiterating that they wanted to be considered as resources if my sister’s efforts failed. In March 2007, a referral was finally made to DYFS in NJ on behalf of my grandparents and placement of W. DYFS tends to be very slow with interstate requests. My grandparents were approved on October 31, 2007. The agency in PA later claimed to not know my grandparents were referred for a home-study, would not return phone calls on many occasions, and would not allow my family to visit my nephew. The CW in NJ called wondering why W was not placed in the home. The agency in PA finally sent a two sentence letter 5 months later on April 1, 2008 stating that they would not place W with my grandparents and for any other relatives to come forward. This was after my grandparents called the agency countless times, had a meeting with them in Dec. 2007, made more phone calls, and finally sent them a 5 page letter inquiring about their lack of progress. My family later learned my grandparents were denied because of their age (which is illegal) and even more astounding considering they recently privately adopted one of my sister’s children who is currently 5.

I sent in a letter stating I would like to be considered as a resource the same day my grandparents learned of their denial. I would have notified the agency sooner but I had no reason to doubt that my grandparents would be denied. The agency also surprisingly called my older sister asking if she wanted to be considered as a resource in mid-April 2008. Initially, the agency was aloof and uncooperative. However, I took a different approach and hired a lawyer, sent in complaint letters anytime the CW didn’t call me back in a timely manner, wrote several letters to the GAL, judge, supervisor, CW and fp.

Things are looking much different than they were initially. Unfortunately, the fp were mislead to believe that no family came forward and they were assured they would be able to adopt. The fp were notified of my grandparents denial as a resource months before my family was notified. The PA agency also tried to terminate my sister’s rights and begin adoption proceedings without communicating any of this to my family. I was so angered by the PA agency and wondered why they would not place my nephew with family when we are caring for 7 of his siblings already. However, I realize now that my CW is unfortunately a dud and probably did not inform herself about the case as she should have. It is frustrating for families that do come forward. It is even more frustrating to learn that many agencies do not comply with the statute that requires them to search for relatives and consider all relatives for adoption in order to receive federal monies.

Unfortunately, the fp’s are going to be devastated when my nephew is moved. It is unfair to them that he is going to be moved, and it is unfair to my family that we missed out on 2 years of his life.

[hkolln]

Originally Posted by Aminah

Unfortunately, the fp were mislead to believe that no family came forward and they were assured they would be able to adopt. The fp were notified of my grandparents denial as a resource months before my family was notified.

Sounds like our case also. Took us 11 mos to get DCF to ok the move to our home for our niece. The FP's were NEVER told about us coming forward until we mailed our niece Christmas presents and they then questioned who we were to the SW. You see, in Idaho they are only required to contact both sets of Grandparents and that was it. They both told the SW they couldn't take our niece...so they told the FP's that there was NO family interested. Only after my hubbys other sister spoke to my husband 6 wks later did we know about our niece being in foster care.

It does happen...DCF only has to do certain things in regards to locating relatives. It's so sad that they never mentioned our involvement even when we showed interest and completed our approved home study.

[RobinKay]

Originally Posted by Aminah

Mom2blessings, I appreciate your insight regarding the rarity of birth families stepping forward on behalf of their family members. I have been wondering about this topic for a long time and why the agency I am working with was taken aback by my families persistence.

I am currently going through the process of adopting my nephew. It has been a very stressful process for my family and me. My family currently cares for 7 out of 8 of my sister’s children. We were able to get 4 of them out of foster care with no problem and placed into my mother’s care. The 5th child my sister V was able to get straight from the hospital without a fight. The 6th child was taken into foster care. My family had to fight to get him out of foster care and my sister V finally adopted him. The 7th child was taken straight from the hospital without him entering foster care. Now comes the 8th child… he was placed into foster care from a prison hospital. My family didn’t know what to do initially b/c my sister A was being uncooperative and claimed her boyfriend, the bf, was coming to get the 8th child W. He did not and therefore the child was placed in foster care in PA in July of 2006.

It was my understanding that relative placements were to be considered first according to the state statute. My mother was contacted and did not want to take custody considering she was caring for 4 already along with her daughter, making it 5. However, my grandparents or my sister were not contacted. The agency was aware of their existence and that they were currently caring from part of the sibling group.

My sister A was released from prison in September of 2006 and immediately contacted the agency. She began complying with her case plan and having visitations with W. She was making progress until around July 2007 when she broke contact.

Meanwhile, my grandparents contacted the agency inquiring about my nephew and reiterating that they wanted to be considered as resources if my sister’s efforts failed. In March 2007, a referral was finally made to DYFS in NJ on behalf of my grandparents and placement of W. DYFS tends to be very slow with interstate requests. My grandparents were approved on October 31, 2007. The agency in PA later claimed to not know my grandparents were referred for a home-study, would not return phone calls on many occasions, and would not allow my family to visit my nephew. The CW in NJ called wondering why W was not placed in the home. The agency in PA finally sent a two sentence letter 5 months later on April 1, 2008 stating that they would not place W with my grandparents and for any other relatives to come forward. This was after my grandparents called the agency countless times, had a meeting with them in Dec. 2007, made more phone calls, and finally sent them a 5 page letter inquiring about their lack of progress. My family later learned my grandparents were denied because of their age (which is illegal) and even more astounding considering they recently privately adopted one of my sister’s children who is currently 5.

I sent in a letter stating I would like to be considered as a resource the same day my grandparents learned of their denial. I would have notified the agency sooner but I had no reason to doubt that my grandparents would be denied. The agency also surprisingly called my older sister asking if she wanted to be considered as a resource in mid-April 2008. Initially, the agency was aloof and uncooperative. However, I took a different approach and hired a lawyer, sent in complaint letters anytime the CW didn’t call me back in a timely manner, wrote several letters to the GAL, judge, supervisor, CW and fp.

Things are looking much different than they were initially. Unfortunately, the fp were mislead to believe that no family came forward and they were assured they would be able to adopt. The fp were notified of my grandparents denial as a resource months before my family was notified. The PA agency also tried to terminate my sister’s rights and begin adoption proceedings without communicating any of this to my family. I was so angered by the PA agency and wondered why they would not place my nephew with family when we are caring for 7 of his siblings already. However, I realize now that my CW is unfortunately a dud and probably did not inform herself about the case as she should have. It is frustrating for families that do come forward. It is even more frustrating to learn that many agencies do not comply with the statute that requires them to search for relatives and consider all relatives for adoption in order to receive federal monies.

Unfortunately, the fp’s are going to be devastated when my nephew is moved. It is unfair to them that he is going to be moved, and it is unfair to my family that we missed out on 2 years of his life.

My goodness--this was horrible, and through no fault of the relatives or the ffamily. So unfair to everyone involved.

Our lil guy's biological half-sister told the social worker about dh and I within days of being taken into care. He dismissed us by saying it would take too long to get us approved-an ICPC was needed as we were in Hawaii and they were in Florida. So, five months later we called and insisted-we realized bparents were not going to get lil guy back. It took 11 months until he was placed with us, and I had to call and be very UNpleasant to get it done.

Like Helen, we gave lil guy Christmas presents and an album of pictures of us and all of his bfamily. Then months later the ffamily excused their behavior by saying they didn't know about us. They had SEEN PICTURES OF US-THE COURT DOCUMENTS HAD "PLACEMENT WITH RELATIVES AS THE GOAL" for months!

I do feel for foster parents that lose a beloved child unexpectedly. I especially feel for foster parents that raise a baby until it is a toddler and then the child goes home.

I have no sympathy for foster parents who just decide on their own "this is the one" and then fight reunion with bfamily.

Again, I regret the horrific experience you went through.

[hkolln]

Originally Posted by RobinKay

I have no sympathy for foster parents who just decide on their own "this is the one" and then fight reunion with bfamily.

It's interesting you mention this cause I asked the CASA worker why they were fighting us so hard when they did find out about our involvement (they hired an attorney) and all their other foster kids they allowed to RU and the CASA worker said they told her they were fighting because they felt she was a good fit in their family and all the other kids were not. Made me feel like they were "trying" the kids out and once one came along that "fit" they would take her/him.

[Aminah]

I agree with not having sympathy for foster families that essentially want to steal your family from you. I am not in agreement with many people on this site that feel as if foster families have the same rights as biological families once they have been in the home for 6 months and beyond. There is a timeframe where I can concur with that belief but it's well beyond 2 years. That length of time does not give you the rights of familial relationships with someone for the next 70 - 80 years and essentially canceling their biological relationships. I do appreciate the kindness and sacrifice many foster families make.

I feel about 90% sorry for the ffamily that I am currently working with. I don't feel completely sorry because the family knew the foster family of my nephew that was previously in care. Therefore, the ffamily knew W had siblings and never inquired about them and also knew that my family came forward before and my nephew H was returned. The ffamily has also been uncooperative and rude to me on several ocassions. I said hello to the fd on two ocassions and he acted like I didn't exist. The fm slammed her car door in my face b/c her fs was saying hello to me. The fm has tried to get me to do 9am visits during the week when I'm driving 2.5 hours from NJ to come visit W in PA. She has a 20 minute drive. The fm even went as far as trying to get the CW to mandate this time. I tried compromising with her and said 10am but she wouldn't budge. However, the CW realized the foster mom's ridiculousness and mandated 10am. The foster mom also tried to not give a visit in a particular week since it had to be changed to earlier in the week. The foster mom assumed that I was doing something else inappropriate with my time and said aloud to the CW "Is she going shopping with her girlfriends?," referring to why I could not come down later in the week. When the caseworker told her that she would send an aide to pick up my nephew if she wouldn't bring him, the visit was then agreed upon. Nonetheless, I have documented all of these things with the CW. Recently, the fd has not been in the vehicle when dropping off W for our visits. The fm has been neutral and even has her generous moments. She offered to create a list of favorite foods of W's and gave us W's most recent pictures. I'm hoping we can stay along this nice route.

However, I need some advice. My nephew W turned two this Jul '08. He will probably we moved in Oct. '08 or Nov. '08. That's my prediction. I am not sure how to go about continued contact with the ffamily and possible visitations. I do not know much about their care for children but it appears that they are very good foster parents to all of their children. They have a very good relationship with W. My only concern with continued contact with the ffamily is how they have treated me and my family. I believe my nephew has 1 family and you're either part of that family or not. I don't want him divided.

Any suggestions on how to go about continued communication, contact, visitations, or just what to do next regarding the ffamily? Keep in mind that I live 2.5 hours from the ffamily.

[RobinKay]

Originally Posted by Aminah

I agree with not having sympathy for foster families that essentially want to steal your family from you. I am not in agreement with many people on this site that feel as if foster families have the same rights as biological families once they have been in the home for 6 months and beyond. There is a timeframe where I can concur with that belief but it's well beyond 2 years. That length of time does not give you the rights of familial relationships with someone for the next 70 - 80 years and essentially canceling their biological relationships. I do appreciate the kindness and sacrifice many foster families make.

I feel about 90% sorry for the ffamily that I am currently working with. I don't feel completely sorry because the family knew the foster family of my nephew that was previously in care. Therefore, the ffamily knew W had siblings and never inquired about them and also knew that my family came forward before and my nephew H was returned. The ffamily has also been uncooperative and rude to me on several ocassions. I said hello to the fd on two ocassions and he acted like I didn't exist. The fm slammed her car door in my face b/c her fs was saying hello to me. The fm has tried to get me to do 9am visits during the week when I'm driving 2.5 hours from NJ to come visit W in PA. She has a 20 minute drive. The fm even went as far as trying to get the CW to mandate this time. I tried compromising with her and said 10am but she wouldn't budge. However, the CW realized the foster mom's ridiculousness and mandated 10am. The foster mom also tried to not give a visit in a particular week since it had to be changed to earlier in the week. The foster mom assumed that I was doing something else inappropriate with my time and said aloud to the CW "Is she going shopping with her girlfriends?," referring to why I could not come down later in the week. When the caseworker told her that she would send an aide to pick up my nephew if she wouldn't bring him, the visit was then agreed upon. Nonetheless, I have documented all of these things with the CW. Recently, the fd has not been in the vehicle when dropping off W for our visits. The fm has been neutral and even has her generous moments. She offered to create a list of favorite foods of W's and gave us W's most recent pictures. I'm hoping we can stay along this nice route.

However, I need some advice. My nephew W turned two this Jul '08. He will probably we moved in Oct. '08 or Nov. '08. That's my prediction. I am not sure how to go about continued contact with the ffamily and possible visitations. I do not know much about their care for children but it appears that they are very good foster parents to all of their children. They have a very good relationship with W. My only concern with continued contact with the ffamily is how they have treated me and my family. I believe my nephew has 1 family and you're either part of that family or not. I don't want him divided.

Any suggestions on how to go about continued communication, contact, visitations, or just what to do next regarding the ffamily? Keep in mind that I live 2.5 hours from the ffamily.

You are very kind and generous to be thinking ahead of the ffamily's feelings. You can always exchange Christmas cards and letters to keep updated on each other. Visits seem impractical due to distance. As this child grows, perhaps the interest on their part will fade.

I do want to state that fparents have the same strong wish everyone has to love and raise children. I think it is impossible not to love and bond with a child you care for even for a few days, much less a year or more. I can't characterize it as "stealing" when fparents want to love and raise a child. Sometimes their strong desire for a family, especially when the couple is infertile, results in lack of support for reunification and that is heartbreaking for everyone. That I find very hard to forgive.

[hkolln]

Originally Posted by Aminah

Any suggestions on how to go about continued communication, contact, visitations, or just what to do next regarding the ffamily? Keep in mind that I live 2.5 hours from the ffamily.

We live 2000 miles away and we use email alot...send pictures via email and updates. We also have family in Idaho so when we went in June we stopped to visit with them. Probably won't do that again as it was emotionally draining and frustrating but we do communicate other ways.

And when the transition happens remember that the child loves them too...don't divide him up by saying negative things about the ffamily. Set your boundaries clearly with the ffamily (re: phone calls, etc...) as when our niece moved here we had issues with constant phone calls of "we miss you" or "we wish you were here" etc...which caused her to regress. Not until we cut them off for a few months did she settle into our family. Maybe setup a schedule of phone calls and how you wish to handle that....Let him know that it's ok to love them...the more people he loves or the more people that love him the better. I always tell our niece that (well our daughter now).

The best thing that happened yesterday...I sat down and she said down alongside me and hugged me and said "Mom, you are the BESTest mom in the entire world!" I cried...I'm so happy she's happy. That's all that matters!

[Mama_K]

I love this Thread..

We are adopting our nephew he was in foster care for 4 1/2 months until we realized we could do Kinship care. M was placed with us within a month and the bp rights were TPR's in May. The fp called every two weeks to see him. We had to keep telling them M needed to bond with us, we had every intension of letting them see him, until they continued calling and even driving by our house. (we live 1hr away) We feel now we are being harassed, and it's real creepy to look out your window and see them driving by slowly. We live in the country and we don't have alot of traffic so they're easy to spot. I know they are great fp and really wanted to adopt M, I know they love him and only want the best for him but there behavior speaks volumes to us.

[hkolln]

Originally Posted by Mama_K

I love this Thread..

The fp called every two weeks to see him. We had to keep telling them M needed to bond with us, we had every intension of letting them see him, until they continued calling and even driving by our house. (we live 1hr away)

That's what happened to us. The FM would call twice a week or more and we too had to explain to them that Alexis needed to have some stability with us. Everytime they called she would regress and not move forward and it really hurt her. Finally when we asked them to not call for 4 months to allow her to bond with us and move on we saw a huge improvement in her grades and behaviours. A child cannot move forward while hearing all about how they are missed...it's just not healthy. Even the behaviours the FP's couldn't control we saw improvement in

[RobinKay]

Originally Posted by Mama_K

I love this Thread..

We are adopting our nephew he was in foster care for 4 1/2 months until we realized we could do Kinship care. M was placed with us within a month and the bp rights were TPR's in May. The fp called every two weeks to see him. We had to keep telling them M needed to bond with us, we had every intension of letting them see him, until they continued calling and even driving by our house. (we live 1hr away) We feel now we are being harassed, and it's real creepy to look out your window and see them driving by slowly. We live in the country and we don't have alot of traffic so they're easy to spot. I know they are great fp and really wanted to adopt M, I know they love him and only want the best for him but there behavior speaks volumes to us.

Thank goodness not all foster parents are like this!! Do complain about this to your caseworker or someone.

We were fortunate to have the time difference and the Pacific Ocean between us and the ffamily. The few phone calls we had and the one letter they sent to ds were enough to let us know it wasn't going to work.

[Boulderbabe]

Robin,

This was the first time I'd read your story. Thanks for sharing it.

I think maybe you're misreading the situation a little. You make it seem as if these foster parents were grasping people who were trying to solve their own problems at the expense of your (then-) nephew. But I can tell you from my own experience that it is very, very hard to care for a child day in and day out and not to be enormously attached to them; as attached as you would be to a child you gave birth to yourself. Everything about human biology and culture encourages us to feel this way about the kids we care for. So for the foster family, I imagine that losing your (now-) son was like losing their own child---a horrible gut-wrenching experience that I wouldn't wish on anybody. I know I felt that way about my own foster, now adopted, kid. After three months, if somebody had taken him from me, I don't know if I would have survived.

As for not wanting their telephone given out to the bmom: I think it's to be expected. We foster parents are often told horrible, horrible things about bparents. Many of those horrible things are true, and they aren't balanced out by any other knowledge of the bparents. Nobody tell us, "Bmom is a great musician, makes terrific guacamole, and uses heroin." They just tell us, "She uses heroin." It's very easy to get good and scared of the bfamily---just look at some of the responses on this site in the last week! So they are understandably cautious--they don't know you, and everything they know about the bmom is horrible.

As for visits with other relatives: I don't know what it's like where you are, but in Colorado, I am required to sign a document that says I won't have ANY unapproved contact with bfamily members. That means if DSS doesn't set up the visit, I am prohibited by law from setting up visits. If I had been your son's fmom, there would have been no possible way for me to set up visits with your nephew/son's sister on my own.

I think it's a terrible tragedy that bfamilies and ffamilies are set up as opponents, scrambling for kids as if they were playing capture the flag. It would be so much better for EVERYBODY if DSS helped bfamilies and ffamilies come together for the sake of the child. But DSS sets us up as adversaries, instead. They tell us awful things about each other, keep us from meeting each other early in the case, and forbid us from talking with one another. That, to my mind, is what causes the harm. It's DSS's fault, not either one of the families'.