[athikers]

In my state the parents certainly can pick and choose where the child goes or doesn't go even after their children are "in the system". so, I think it varies.

Granted, that doesn't mean the relatives or kin aren't background checked and whatnot, but the parents have a lot of input here.

[wantaskinbaby]

Originally Posted by vernellinnj

I'm curious of other's opinions....

What if the bioparent is of sound mind and CHOOSES to not have biofamily raise their child/children..should the wishes of the parent be honored? SHOULD social services be looking for family if the parent doesn't want them to? Afterall...they know their family much better than social services..perhaps there's a reason why they did not id any immediate/extended family members. Let's assume, for this scenario, that both parents choose to NOT id other family.

In response to the question, I have to say that if the birth parents are of sound mind, then yes, they should get a say into who parents the children. I agree that they know their family much better than social services.

Plus, in private adoptions, don't the birth parents choose who parents their child or children without regard to relation?

It is a difficult issue, though, because some birth parents, even those of sound mind, may not be able to be objective enough to choose the best family for their child, especially if there have been disagreements in the family.

Can I just rant for a minute here? This is not in response to anything anyone has posted, just some thoughts. Since becoming a foster parent who wants to adopt our fs, I have struggled with some questions closely related to the issues raised.

I think that we all need to be very careful that we do not equate biology with permanency or with ownership. As the National Council for Adoption states on their website, "there is no right to adopt a child, only the right of the child to be adopted. The goal of adoption is to provide the best possible parents for children, not to provide children to those who desire to parent them." I think that biological relatives of children AND THOSE NON RELATIVES WHO WANT TO ADOPT (including me) should carefully examine whether or not they are best possible parents for the child.

Children are human beings, not posessions. Although biological connections can benefit children as they form their identities, I strongly believe that permanency is far more important for children's well being than ensuring that they are raised by a biological relative. As I read through one of the threads on one of these forums asking for adults who were in foster care as children to comment on their experiences, what really stood out to me (maybe because I was looking for it - I know that it is hard to be objective in such an emotional debate) were the comments regarding how glad many of the adults were that they had not been raised by their birth parents, but, how much they needed permanency and how their sense of "not belonging" was not so much because of lack of biological connection, but because of lack of permanency.

I am very strongly in favor of strict time limits on the period that children may be in care before being placed for adoption. I do not believe that birth parents or biological relatives should be given an open ended or unreasonable time frame to "claim" children or meet case plan requirements. I believe that "reasonable" can vary between families and children, but I do believe that even the federal limits on length of time in care are too long.

On the other side of the issue, however, I am also very strongly in favor of open adoption. I do not believe that children should be kept from their biological families, even if they have not been model citizens. I believe that children NEED to know their biological families, but I don't believe that they necessarily need to be raised by them.

It is a difficult issue and I know that I am only seeing my little part of it. I am grateful for others, who may believe differently from me, but who have been brave enough to state the reasons for their beliefs and to live them.

[bethy724]

I didn't read thru the 11 pages of responses but want to add my opinion.

I am a foster parent & can swear that we are LIED to about interested relatives. I won't defend a fp if they know of a relative & damage any relationship w/ the birth family, but it is not our job to look for family, arrange visits ect. Your ason has the right to know his sister & it is the responsibility of social services to make that relationship happen, not the fp's, if the fp's disregard social services requests to have him at visits (they would have to arrange it) than the child should be placed in a home w/ fp's willing to do their job. My good friend begged to know of any possible relatives & was told for 18 months there were none-in the meantime the bmom was appealing the termination (she had every right to) but my friend was lied to (no - mom was terminated, really it's just paperwork left to do)

I was lied to about interest from the bfather (not that he's ever get custody serving life in prison) but when I read the CPS file before the adoption I was shocked to see the letters he wrote to CPS regarding my now adopted son. I am thrilled to let my son know his bdad loved & cared for him & his whereabouts. I was never told the man was interested-even when I asked.

I am glad as a fp that your nephew stayed w/ family - I think for the most part fp's know their job & want whats best for the child-we fall in love but shopuld never stand int he way of what we signed up for - temporary care until the child finds perminancy.

[RobinKay]

Originally Posted by bethy724

I didn't read thru the 11 pages of responses but want to add my opinion.

I am a foster parent & can swear that we are LIED to about interested relatives. I won't defend a fp if they know of a relative & damage any relationship w/ the birth family, but it is not our job to look for family, arrange visits ect. Your ason has the right to know his sister & it is the responsibility of social services to make that relationship happen, not the fp's, if the fp's disregard social services requests to have him at visits (they would have to arrange it) than the child should be placed in a home w/ fp's willing to do their job. My good friend begged to know of any possible relatives & was told for 18 months there were none-in the meantime the bmom was appealing the termination (she had every right to) but my friend was lied to (no - mom was terminated, really it's just paperwork left to do)

I was lied to about interest from the bfather (not that he's ever get custody serving life in prison) but when I read the CPS file before the adoption I was shocked to see the letters he wrote to CPS regarding my now adopted son. I am thrilled to let my son know his bdad loved & cared for him & his whereabouts. I was never told the man was interested-even when I asked.

I am glad as a fp that your nephew stayed w/ family - I think for the most part fp's know their job & want whats best for the child-we fall in love but shopuld never stand int he way of what we signed up for - temporary care until the child finds perminancy.

It is very healing for me to read this from a foster parent. My limited experience was very negative, and I was so hoping that it was not the norm. I realize now there are many, many foster parents like you who put the child first. I wish our son's fparents were like almost anyone else I read from on this site--I'd love to be in touch with them and share his success in school, sports, and with church and Scouts.

It is so hard to do the right thing for children in a timely manner, it seems. An Interstate Compact for Placement of Children takes far too long--we were excellent candidates for placement--but our lil guy stayed in the last foster home for 13 months simply because the paperwork took so long.

During that time the fparents knew about us, and our interest, and that we wanted contact. At the end, they attemped to interfere with the process by influencing the GAL

Many would argue we should have left him there--the fparents certainly did!

Relatives are not always the right choice, I will agree with that.

My one statement that is "non-negotiable"---foster parents should support the social services plan.

Fparents don't have to agree with it, but they should support it in every way they can. If they have the option to be touch with the potential relative placement, I think they should do it for the child. If the fparents for lil guy had done that, and tried to form a relationship with is bsister, he would likely still be there and been adopted by them. Their negative, unpleasant, attitude is certainly one of the reasons he is here today.

It's asking a lot of foster parents--and I thank and praise every one of them that do support their foster children with contact with relatives.

Truly, there is much healing that can be done if we work together--relatives and foster parents.

[bethy724]

Robin-
I agree w/ you 100%-if you know for a fact that the fp's knew about you for 13 months they are not suitable fp's. If you were TOLD they knew about you it may not have been the truth. (Sometimes) we are in the dark, asked to leave placement meetings, asked not to come to court, not given the paperwork that states the goal ect... However there are bad apples & I'm sorry your experience was what it was. Your ason was a part of their family for 13 months & not matter how hurt they are they should maintain the level of contact you lay out-it would heal them, your ason & could have been a positive experience for everybody. When they refused contact w/ the bio sister (which they have no right to do) CPS should have moved him immediatly. I guarentee CPS never set up the meetings or he would have been pulled from the home when they didn't comply. I'd bet they weren't told about you for a good while. I was court ordered to take my now ason to jail to have a visit w/ biodad - after he was convicted of capital murder & I did it-you can't refuse a court order or CPS requests for visits.
I'm glad it worked out in the end - I'm sorry for the long road it took for your family to be together.

[hkolln]

Originally Posted by bethy724

I'd bet they weren't told about you for a good while.

I wouldn't doubt that cause it happened to us. Only reason the fp's found out about us was because we mailed xmas presents to Alexis at Christmas time. Then they questioned the SW and she had to confess we were seeking placement with us and we had become licensed foster parents, and this was 4 months into all our steps to move Alexis to our home. I don't know if the SW was hoping we wouldn't step thru all those hoops they gave us or maybe they were expecting us to not pass our homestudy...I don't know. Then the ICPC took another 6 months to be approved. That left Alexis with them for 11 months before moving to our home. It must have looked like we came out of the woodwork to them when in fact the SW dropped the ball and did not disclose alot of stuff to the previous FP's. I don't blame them for that at all. I just wish the system would work for the kids and do what is best for them.

[vernellinnj]

Let's face it, being a fosterparent is role that we volunteered for. The "system" can lie to us, misrepresent information, ignore us, etc and we are supposed to just go along without saying a word. I, for one, KNOW I am a great fosterparent. I have treated every child like they were birthed from my body....I did for each of them what I would do for a biological child. I am not looking for a pat on the back...again I volunteered and no matter what the child and I benefitted..

I know this for sure....when my case is over, I have to say "no more". I simply can't "volunteer" for this type of heartache any more. "You" (and I mean no one in particular) can never understand what it's like to love a child and see him/her leave (sometimes for what you KNOW is a bad situation).

[hkolln]

Oh funny thing happened yesterday!

I came home to a message from our licensing lady asking us "DO you wish to continue fostering or do you want to close down your home for fostering?" I am only licensed for Alexis (child specific) and the only reason I became a foster parent was Idaho required us to. I have no intentions of getting into this full time...I think it's awful how foster parents are treated...and I think the system needs a huge overhaul. Did they really think I would say I want to foster? After all we went thru? So, she's coming to take back our book and have us sign a paper stating we adopted Alexis. YEAH...normal life with both my girls!

[bethy724]

I'm not sure if it needs an overhaul or just sw's to do their job including keeping fp's updated-there's no reason on earth a sw couldn't tell the fp's about an interested relative for 4 months. How many more laws/licensing requirements do we need when basic human kindness is not there?

[RobinKay]

Originally Posted by bethy724

Robin-
I agree w/ you 100%-if you know for a fact that the fp's knew about you for 13 months they are not suitable fp's. If you were TOLD they knew about you it may not have been the truth. (Sometimes) we are in the dark, asked to leave placement meetings, asked not to come to court, not given the paperwork that states the goal ect... However there are bad apples & I'm sorry your experience was what it was. Your ason was a part of their family for 13 months & not matter how hurt they are they should maintain the level of contact you lay out-it would heal them, your ason & could have been a positive experience for everybody. When they refused contact w/ the bio sister (which they have no right to do) CPS should have moved him immediatly. I guarentee CPS never set up the meetings or he would have been pulled from the home when they didn't comply. I'd bet they weren't told about you for a good while. I was court ordered to take my now ason to jail to have a visit w/ biodad - after he was convicted of capital murder & I did it-you can't refuse a court order or CPS requests for visits.
I'm glad it worked out in the end - I'm sorry for the long road it took for your family to be together.

Thank you for your supportive post.

I heard from the fparent's supervisor that they did not know about us--she was excusing their behavior and attitude. However, just like hkollen, we gave gifts and an album of pictures at Christmas time-he had been with them since late August of that year.

So they knew about us, knew he was having a visit with relatives that day just before Christmas. Then, the therapist had a session in the home WITH the fmother present in January. Lil guy ran to get his album to show the therapist and tell her about us--this was in front of foster mom--so claming 9 months later they didn't know about us? Seriously???!!!

Additionally, there was a section in court documents for their input where they stated lil guy did not know us, had not had contact and we had not come to visit. HELLO--they refused to let us have contact so we mailed things through social worker--we were told not to come visit until ICPC was done by sw--we were put between a rock and a hard place and left ourselves open to criticism by these fparents. And then just before placement with us, claim they didn't know about us so that is why they were so attached to him and anticipated adopting him. Excuse me, you can't complain about us in court in the spring and then claim we "popped up out of nowhere" in the fall.

We got the "green file" and in it was the agency's guidelines that stated they had a choice to let relatives/parents be in direct contact. They chose not to do that--now we know why, it gave them a chance to keep him when they could claim he didn't know us and had limited contact. We would have called daily and FLOWN TO FLORIDA MONTHLY from Hawaii if we'd been allowed.

I am glad not all fparents are like this--because it just made things harder for lil guy and would be harder for any fchildren. In the long run he's fine, but he had been through enough--we were all supposed to put his needs first--all they ever talked about was their infertility and how they felt about him, not what was best for him or whether HE wanted to stay with THEM. He told me it was hard, that he did love fdad, but loved us too. It broke my heart, he was so matter of fact when he shared this, like it was something all kids had to go through.

We were very willing to maintain contact, until they kept referring to themselves and mommy and daddy in phone calls, pressuring him about church attendance--he had such a bad week after talking to them. I am glad the stress behaviors faded quickly. He did not ask to speak to them again after the first three days following their second call, and has never wanted to write to them, or even sign a note written by me.

I think of them every day, literally. I feel like a piece of my life, of his life, is missing. Yet, his therapist and mine (I saw someone briefly) both said don't be in contact, it's not good for him. For some kids, maybe it is a good thing to maintain contact with ffamilies, but for our lil guy, it's not.

Regarding his sister--the sw and therapist set up family-type occasions so they all could meet and develop a relationship with lil guy's sister. For example, a barbeque was arranged with sister's foster family. The sw and therapist brought lil guy. His fparents were supposed to join everyone and stay to visit and eat. They showed up, loaded lil guy in the car, and left. SW tried a phone call from fparents house for lil guy to talk to sister--fmom was just "weird" and not supportive (according to biosister). Therapist and SW tried very hard to get that relationship going--if there had been a good, supportive relationship between sister and the fparents, there is no way the court would have let lil guy move to Hawaii. The fparents told the judge (private meeting before court) they would keep lil guy in touch with sister. Sister, in her private talk with the judge, said she did not believe them since they had done nothing to help them stay in touch for the entire them he'd been with them. Fortunately, the judge believed sister and the therapist.

It seemed they just wanted to forget/erase that lil guy had a family and memories. I find that very hard to forgive. No one had the right to take away those memories, that love from his family.

After he was placed with us, then sister was just about elevated to sainthood when they talked about her--too little, too late. They had already shown their true colors/attitude about her to us. They did not even call her by her name until he was placed with us-always referred to her as "the sister" like you'd say "the garbage".

I am on a rant here, sorry about that. It tears me up thinking this is happening to children all over our country. Relatives are not always the best choice, certainly. When it is an option, foster parents need to support the children in this, and not make it harder on the kids or the family that is already seriously stressed due to losing children into the foster care system, IMHO.

Just support the plan--doesn't mean you can't have your opinion about the plan, doesn't mean you can't have your hopes and dreams for your own family. I ask that foster parents not make it harder for children when their is a possibility to be raised by someone from the birth family.

Now, having said all this--my dh and I would not have come forward if lil guy had been with these folks straight from the hospital. We came forward to preserve his memories and to provide continuity for him with his birth family. He was just about 5 when taken into care; he has an exceptional memory and would have truly suffered losing contact with everyone he knew. That would have happened, without a doubt, there was no possibility of any kind of OA with these foster parents.

[RobinKay]

Originally Posted by bethy724

I'm not sure if it needs an overhaul or just sw's to do their job including keeping fp's updated-there's no reason on earth a sw couldn't tell the fp's about an interested relative for 4 months. How many more laws/licensing requirements do we need when basic human kindness is not there?

Exactly--if we had been treated like decent, honorable human beings, if lil guy's sister had been shown any kind of sympathy for ALSO being in foster care--he might be living in Florida right now and they's have a forever family with a great son.

In hkollen's case--there was no excuse for what they went through, no excuse at all except the selfishness of the foster family. Her neice was a "good fit" for their family and they decided they were going to keep her. Period. (Sorry to step on your story, Helen.)

[RobinKay]

Originally Posted by wantaskinbaby

I am very strongly in favor of strict time limits on the period that children may be in care before being placed for adoption. I do not believe that birth parents or biological relatives should be given an open ended or unreasonable time frame to "claim" children or meet case plan requirements. I believe that "reasonable" can vary between families and children, but I do believe that even the federal limits on length of time in care are too long.

I agree, but I would never give up if the only reason lil guy did not come to us is because some stupid clerk mailed a paper to the wrong address. That is what happened to us, literally. He almost was adopted out of his family due to ONE PIECE OF PAPER. I still get sick to my stomach when I think of that.

I would agree to strict timelines, but EVERYONE has to follow them. No clerical errors or delays allowed--missing paperwork is not a reason to place/adopt a child outside the family, especially when there are relatives that love and want the child very much. Can you imagine how a young adult would feel knowing he/she lost their family due to a piece of paper being misdirected?

[vernellinnj]

Every case is different....birthfamily is not always the answer nor is adoption by non-family.

I can agree that FPs should support the plan but, they should also advocate for the child...no matter what.

[RobinKay]

Originally Posted by vernellinnj

Every case is different....birthfamily is not always the answer nor is adoption by non-family.

I can agree that FPs should support the plan but, they should also advocate for the child...no matter what.

What exactly does "advocate" mean? If it means in any way not supporting the social services plan, then I cannot agree with you.

Fparents can certainly have their own opinion, but the agreement made when licensed is to support the social services plan.

[vernellinnj]

Originally Posted by RobinKay

What exactly does "advocate" mean? If it means in any way not supporting the social services plan, then I cannot agree with you.

Fparents can certainly have their own opinion, but the agreement made when licensed is to support the social services plan.

To me advocate means continuing to write and petition a judge to make permanency possible for a child who has been in care for years, it means asking the judge to have a sense of urgency in bringing a case to resolution, it means asking a judge to follow the recommendation of social services, independent psychologists and law guardians. Social Services can recommend all it wants but ultimately a judge has to make a decision. Also, I know of numerous situations where social services is far from knowledgeable on everything that's in the best interest of the child.

It takes numerous resources including, caseworkers, Law Guardians, psychologists, bioparents, foster parents, therapists, etc. Often times the Law Guardian and the state can differ on "what's in the child's best interest". The children have independent legal reresentation for a reason. The "plan" isn't always in the best interest of the child...not just from a FP POV but from the POV of others as well. JMHO