[WhoKnew]

I am wondering about other parents' experience with destructive behavior and how they dealt with it (any advice?). I am going to flip through my books (Parenting the Hurt Child, Love and Logic, etc.) and talk some more to her therapist, but am looking for any help I can get.

DD has always been somewhat destructive (breaking/ cutting plastic toys, writing on other people's notebooks/papers), although it was not that frequent. However, recently we are discovering more serious damage she has done:
- drawing in pen on the couch
- drawing with nail polish on the couch
- drawing with nail polish on a cabinet
- drawing in pen on her wooden toy box
- starting pulling feathers off an item in a store

Okay, I can already hear it - why did she have access to nail polish? Point taken, and clearly I need to have it locked away. But do I have to lock up pens and anything that could be potentially damaging?

I have not figured out if this is lack of impulse control (which is an issue with her) or anger, or what. Of course when asked, she 'doesn't know' why she did it.

We are with a new therapist, and after the first two incidents above, she sseemed to think it was not unusual for her age. She is six, and I fully believe that she knows, or should know, that this behavior is wrong.

Of course, there are other issues tied in. She lied about the behavior repeatedly before finally 'fessing up'. She doesn't seem to feel any remorse for the damage she has done.

So far her consequences have included no computer games for several days, and pulling weeds as an extra chore (to make up for the time, effort, cost of repairs/cleaning).

Last night I found the pen markings on the toy box. In an act of desperation, I took a possession of hers and calmly wrote on it in black marker, and explained why I was doing it. It probably sounds cruel, and my husband did not agree with this, but I wanted to get through to her what it feels like to have someone else destroy or damage your things. She went into hysterics and cried and cried. DH washed the item and got the marker out. I told her this morning that the marker came off but that she will get it back when she has proven to us that she will not damage things.

I am sure the therapist will say that I handled the whole thing wrong. I really did have good intentions and truly was trying to teach her something (empathy for how others feel when she does this).

In all of this, her only concern was her possession. She does not seem to be sorry at all about the damage she has done.

Anyway, thanks for letting me vent, and I would appreciate any advice.

Christine

[athikers]

Does your daughter function at a six year old level in general? Because drawing on stuff definitely is a pretty typical "preschool" behavior. So, if she functions at that level (rather than 6) she may NOT realize what she's doing is wrong or hurtful with regard to drawing.

With regard to how you handled consequences. When our M kicked a hole in the wall two nights ago - she lost a girls day out, she lost her bedtime privileges (staying up and reading) AND she's doing chores left and right during Easter break to "pay" for the damage. Before she chose to do chores I calmly said "Would you like to do chores to pay for the damage or would you like me to take your favorite toy and smash it with a hammer?" She chose chores AND she understood what it must feel like for us to have a whole kicked in our wall (now really the wall's not that special, and she really likes her favorite toy - but you see my point hopefully). So, I think you did what you could think of at the moment to help drive home your point.

[aunlanpo]

None of us perfectly keep everything under lock and key that a child could use to destroy property. So, first of all, give yourself a break. I've had a child draw all over my leather couch with a ballpoint pen, while I was sitting in the same room reading a magazine. It happens.

I agree with AT, the first thing is to determine what her developmental stage/capabilities are. If she is functioning at a lower level than her age, then it should be handled differently than at age level functioning. Ask the therapist about that.

Assuming she's functioning at age, I usually have kids scrub it off of the wall, couch, whatever... they have to do nothing but scrub, eat, then scrub, pee, then scrub, sleep, then scrub. After a loooooot of scrubbing, when it still won't come off, I spend my time trying to clean it. And they have to pay me back for the time I used doing that, by doing something that I would normally have to do... fold laundry, scoop dog poopie or whatever age appropriate thing. And if I can't get it clean, then I charge a "damaged fee," which is paid off with allowances and more work. I constantly say things like, "every single time you destroy property, you will have to pay for it, with your time and your money.", and "I sure wish you hadn't made such a bad choice when you decided to damage that couch. You'd be watching tv right now, or you'd be playing outside, and I'd be happy with you.", and "I sure hope you'll never make a bad choice like that again. You can choose to only write on paper, and I'll be happy with you, but if you choose to write on anything but paper again, I'll be angry with you, and you'll have to spend all your time scrub, scrub, scrubbing."

You can deduct the value of the damaged property on your taxes. But be careful, it is the actual value and not the replacement cost. Also, tell your cw, because depending on your state, there may be a way to recoup the cost.

I'm personally not opposed to destroying a child's property in those situations, except for foster children. Maybe lock something special away until the restitution is paid, but they have so little already, ya know? I tell ya what though, we're all just doing the best we can, and we all second guess ourselves constantly, and at the end of the day, you writing on her toy is not gonna kill her. And you are the one there in the moment, and that counts for a whole lot, so just keep doing what seems right at the time and adjust as you learn... just like the rest of us.

[Lorraine123]

I see nothing wrong with what you did. She needs to learn that she cannot destroy your property. With many of these kids, it takes extreme behavior on our part to get through to them. I would however be very upset with your husband if I were you. You two must work together as a team and even if he disagreed with you, it is wrong for him to undermine your actions. IMO

She should have to clean up the mess. I would have her scrub the marks off the toy box or couch or whatever. Until it is cleaned, she gets no privileges. If it can't be cleaned, then she needs to do chores to pay you back. Again, no priviledges until it is paid back.

Do not beat yourself up. You did what you thought was the best way to teach your daughter a lesson. Thats what parents do.

[scandi]

I agree with the others - find out the developmental age. I loved the pulling weeds idea. In my house (a friend came up with this for her kids) we have Poor Choice Camp - it is a work camp for when you make poor choices. My oldest goes thru streaks when he has this. Though lately I have made him start to write sentences because he can then also practice his writing and spelling. He's nine.

My 5 year old has had to clean up his own blood on the floor when he picks his nose until it bleeds and his own poop when he has smeared in on the walls - he has only done this once. He appears to learn faster than my oldest but that may change as he gets older and "forgets" more.

just my experiences
scandi

[Barksum]

I have two who can be destructive; one does it for who knows what reason...but lots of times it is because developmentally he is not up with his chronological age. He is chronologically almost 6, but developmentally he is more about 3 years old. So, if he WAS 3 years old I would be upset that he wrote on the walls, pulled all the tp off the roller, used my makeup to decorate the dryer, etc., but I would think of a 3 year old consequence for this typical 3 year old behavior. Since he's not 3, it makes it harder for me to treat him in such a way. But I do TRY.

Another child of ours has no impulse control. None. Zip. He can quote the rules; he can recognize when others break the rules, but can't apply them to himself. He's very upset when he breaks the rules, he doesn't MEAN to destroy things, but...he can't keep his hands from wandering, can't keep his mind from getting distracted, etc. For him we do time outs as he doesn't really GET the whole consequencing deal. We work to make sure that he has good things to do through the day, and he is making progress, but it's tough at times.

We use the 'The Out of Sync Child Has Fun' book to find sensory stuff for the kids to do. We've found that this helps. TAKES ALOT OF PLANNING ON MY PART, though. See these gray hairs? They weren't there before I had kids. (Of course I was way younger before I had kids...but let's not cloud the issue with facts, please! )

[WhoKnew]

Thanks everyone. I do try to keep in mind that developmentally she is not quite on target with her chronological age, most likely. The most obvious sign of this has been academically in kindergarten (we are working with her). However, she does seem bright in most ways and I do believe she knows this is wrong, and I tend to think it was intentional.

I almost wonder if subconsiously she is testing to see if we will react as other adults in her life have, or even send her away. Maybe a combination of developmental level, lack of impulse control, and testing? Strange how it got worse rather than better as she has gotten older and been here longer.

Lorraine - I absolutely agree with you! I was quite upset that DH undermined me, and told him this.

She keeps asking when she can get her princess pillow back, and I keep telling her it will be a while, after she's proven she has learned not to draw or write on objects.

I do have to count my blessings that we have not had poop smeared on the walls (knock on wood) .

Thanks again,
Christine
P.S - As I type, the girls have been sent to their rooms for pounding on each other...ahhh, the joys of parenthood .