[akcskye]

Okay, I'm trying SO bad to not get my heart involved, please give me feedback so I'll know if what I'm thinking is actually believable or if my heart is taking over. LOL

Long story short: Adoption/Matching Party yesterday.

We had actually gone down there to meet with a sibling group of 2, M and C. I know C from tutoring him.

Well, when we got the books of all the children expected at the party, we noticed that a group of 4 we were submitted for; R, C, S, and Z, were going to be there as well.

Well, M and C were late to the party because of their social worker. That was ok.

But, during that time, my husband and I mingled with R and C especially (the 2 older ones, ages 9 and 8), and eventually, they fell in "love" with us, as we did them, to the point that R, the oldest, verbalized he wanted us to adopt him! (That was to us though, not in front of the SW).

We met the other 2, and unfortunately, we weren't too thrilled with the oldest one, who is 15, unless we totally misread him. We'll know more about whether he really liked us or not tomorrow.

Anyway, we did introduce ourselves to the group of 4's SW, but she was having people talking to her from all different directions, LOL, so we basically only got our names out and let her know our SW had submitted us for them and we were going to mingle with them.

Well, once the party ended, R and C came by and C hugged my husband and R hugged me, in FRONT of the social worker, and we all said bye to each other.

Now, here's where I need input.

Wouldn't that score some serious brownie points with them that they hugged us, even without R verbalizing in front of them that he wants us to adopt them? I mean, it was obvious with the older 2 that the match could be VERY good.

The younger 2, the little girl, S, is shy, and Z, the youngest at 4, just wanted to play games, and of course, that is totally understandable. LOL

So, is my heart getting carried away, or do you really think there is a good possiblity that we could be matched to adopt them?

Thanks! PLEASE let me know so I know whether what I am feeling is normal or not.

A VERY VERY VERY excited Kristi.

[Forever_family]

I have limited experience as a foster parent but I did volunteer for over 2 years at an orphanage. I think it is wonderful that you are open to adopting older children and to adopting sibling groups.

Often the children, specifically the girls, ages 5-11 in the orphanage would beg me to take them home, to be their mom and so on. They needed lots of hugs and would attach to anyone for those needs. It was very endearing especially at first but then I notcied they were repeating this behavior to anyone and everyone who would visit them even if it was only after meeting for 5 minutes. I started to research on the internet the effects of living in an orphanage. I also encountered that many foster children have these same issues. I began to feel these children had developed severe attachment issues. I think RAD may be the latest "craze" in the adoption world but I do think there is something to it. In my research when children will attach that quickly it may be a sign of Reactive Attachment Disorder. I don't want to be negative, I really hope it works out for you and the children you wish to adopt. I would only suggest you find out more about attachment issues if you haven't already and specifics about the children, how many homes they have been in, any behavior issues, etc. I wish you the best.


L

[Jensboys]

I agree the fact that they are "parent shopping" would be a HUGE red flag to me. Lack of wariness, overly affectionate with strangers (which is what you are) is a HUGE issue and I would make ABSOLUTELY sure you know their complete file before you go any further.

Jen

[akcskye]

No, there is no RAD or any attachment disorder. That much I do know from my own SW because I had her ask for me.

This all culminated over HOURS (3) of conversation and skating.

We just hit it off, and then R told me I'd make a cool foster mom, and I said "thank you, I do want to be an adoptive mom", and that is when everything started that I mentioned in the first post.

It actually ended up being more like a first meeting than a skating party.

Perhaps I didn't share all the information I needed obviously, but thanks for looking out for me.

With this information now, too, what do you think?

[bug'smom]

I have to agree that my first thought was that him asking you to adopt him was WAY too soon. I would definitely go over their files completely to see what you are dealing with.

[Jensboys]

I agree - files can be incomplete, the behaviors to me signify some serious concerns. I am a mother of 4 - ages 11, 9, 8 and almost 5. It is a SERIOUS issue that a child would be asking someone to be their parent that soon. Healthy kids would be wary, suspicious of your intentions, intent on stability (staying where they are) - the behaviors you saw were manipulative.

No, there is no RAD or any attachment disorder

And I have a serious problem with this quote. Please be aware that ANY child in the foster care system has attachment issues. How many disrupted attachments has this child had? How many placements? ALL kids coming into a family at this age will have issues - -and many of them will be attachment related. You arent finding out "IF" they have attachment issues - you are finding out "HOW SEVERE" they are. We are telling you as parents who have been there, done that - be wary of the warning signs. Invest with your head, not just your heart. These kids have been through too much to go through a transition to parents who arent prepared for their issues -- NOW that doesn mean these kids arent for you -- but it does mean that you MUST go in with your eyes wide open!

Jen

[Jensboys]

R and C especially (the 2 older ones, ages 9 and 8), and eventually, they fell in "love" with us, as we did them, to the point that R, the oldest, verbalized he wanted us to adopt him! (That was to us though, not in front of the SW).

R and C came by and C hugged my husband and R hugged me, in FRONT of the social worker,

Do you see how these behaviors are not within the normal range of healthy children's behavior?

But how this ...

younger 2, the little girl, S, is shy, and Z, the youngest at 4, just wanted to play games

Would be considered far more "healthy" reaction to meeting strangers?

[AmyAnne]

Wow. I find this exchange interesting. When we attended a match party here (in VA) we were specifically told we were not to discuss adoption in any way, shape or form with the children we met. Were there similar rules here? I know at one, another family we knew was asked point-blank by a 12 year old girl if they were going to adopt her.

The kids liking you is a good step but not everything. If the SW doesn't feel it's a good match, they won't make the match. We expressed interest in one boy we met at the match party. I was in love with him and waiting for the call. It never came, but it think it was the race and age issues factored in there.

Keep us posted!

[akcskye]

My eyes are wide open...I just know they've said the children do not have attachment issues, and are well adjusted.

However, I will get full disclosure *IF* we get the call for matching for them, and then we'll be able to say yes or no from there, so please don't think I'm being argumentative, I'm just sharing what I've been told thus far.

Thanks again!!!

[Lorraine123]

Wow. Lots of red flags here. Please listen to all the posts above and move with caution. We also were told that our daughter did not have RAD and guess what - jokes on us!!!! You will not get full disclosure. Sorry. but thats the truth. How can the worker know how the children will react in a forever family? They can't. That is where RAD comes out. Also - for the worker to tell you that these children have no attachment issues at all is wrong. It is impossible. All foster children have some degree of attachment disorder. This causes me to wonder what else is being hidden. The worker knows this and is trying to snow you. Again, sorry to be blunt, but that the way the system works. For a child to "parent shop" as these children did is a bad sign. I'm not saying these aren't the children for you, but please be aware that there are issues. For a child to react the way these children did is not normal. There are attachment issues, no question about it.

[Jensboys]

...I just know they've said the children do not have attachment issues, and are well adjusted.

Kristi, I will have to say that it would be virtually impossible(and certainly unheard of) for a child of the age of 8, adoptable and in foster care to NOT have attachment issues - no, they may not be diagnosed with RAD or Attachment disorder, but lets plot out the life of the "average" foster child of the age of 8.

As a MINIMUM this child will have had 2 disrupted attachments - birth parents and foster parents. That in itself causes trust issues, and attachment concerns.

You add to that the reasons a child would be in care - drug exposure, neglect, abuse etc (all disrupt attachments). Depending on the severity of the abuse, the age the child was taken into care, the age the abuse/neglect occurred, the emotional health of their first parents are all varying factors in attachment.

Add to that the fact that the child probably has not flown through foster care on one placement - maybe the child has gone back and forth, lets say on average, 3 times? That adds an addition 6 attachment breaks - parents -fosters-parents-fosters-parents-fosters.

Now there are siblings involved, maybe they couldnt all be placed together so those attachments come and go as well.

What we are telling you is that those behaviors you are THRILLED with are WARNING SIGNS. The very fact that you are happy about the behavior shows that maybe you need to do some more reading about it. You might want to start on this forum at the older child adoption or attachment boards. Here are the criterea from the radzebra.org site ...

Definition from the DSM-IV 313.89: Reactive Attachment Disorder of Infancy or Early Childhood

Markedly disturbed and developmentally inappropriate social relatedness in most contexts, beginning before age 5 years, as evidenced by either (1) or (2):

persistent failure to initiate or respond in a developmentally appropriate fashion to most social interactions, as manifest by excessively inhibited, hypervigilant, or highly ambivalent and contradictory responses (e.g., the child may respond to caregivers with a mixture of approach, avoidance, and resistance to comforting, or may exhibit frozen watchfulness)

diffuse attachments as manifest by indiscriminate sociability with marked inability to exhibit appropriate selective attachments (e.g., excessive familiarity with relative strangers or lack of selectivity in choice of attachment figures)

The disturbance in Criterion A is not accounted for solely by developmental delay (as in Mental Retardation and does not meet criteria for a Pervasive Development Disorder)

Pathogenic care as evidenced by at least one of the following:

persistent disregard of the child's basic emotional needs for comfort, stimulation, and affection

persistent disregard of the child's basic physical needs

repeated changes of primary caregiver that prevent formation of stable attachments (e.g., frequent changes in foster care)

There is a presumption that the care in Criterion C is responsible for the disturbed behavior in Criterion A (e.g., the disturbances in Criterion A began following the pathogenic care in Criterion C).

Specify type:

Inhibited Type: if Criterion A1 predominates in the clinical presentation
Disinhibited Type: if Criterion A2 predominates in the clinical presentation

[akcskye]

First, I haven't gotten to talk to the SW myself (other than a quick introduction). It was MY sw that told me that their SW said there were no attachment issues.

I do agree with all of you. I'm thinking that because it's a more pleasant showing (liking too much rather than not attaching at all) maybe they just don't "get it".

Second, again, I DO plan to move with caution. Thank you for all your input, it's not like I'm NOT getting what you're saying. LOL

Third, I do plan on having my own team of counselors and medical professionals evaluate the children from the get go if we were the selected family.

This all could be a moot point in a week anyway, if we are not the chosen family.

I just felt it was a very good experience (I do not consider that the children were parent shopping as they were skating and playing 'til my husband and I approached them to mingle, and that stuff (about wanting us to adopt them) didn't come up 'til 3 hours later when we were all talking about our likes and dislikes, etc.)

But yes, we will approach this with an even more watchful eye than before after reading the posts here.

Again, thanks

[tybeemarie]

Kristi,

It is so exciting to meet kids you are excited about, exciting to be further on the road to having a family.

I would echo what the others have said. I researched like a maniac before we even did our homestudy. Based on my research, we said, explicitly, no RAD, no FAS. Before meeting kids, I would ask very probing, direct questions--I'm a lawyer, and I used to be a child welfare lawyer, so I knew the questions to ask. I talked to the social worker, social worker's supervisor, the nurse, the foster parent, etc. We turned down several potential matches due to our concerns that the kids might have RAD or FAS. Eventually, we found our kids.

Guess what? My kids all have attachment disorder, and 2 of the 3 have FAS. It wasn't even so much a matter of the agency deceiving us as it was a matter of the kids having never been assessed, despite being in foster care for 4 years when we met them.

My girls were somewhat aloof when we met them, but my son called us Mom and Dad the first visit and picked out his bedroom. As it turns out, my son is emotionally healthier than my girls. But, they've got some serious issues.

I love my children, who I believe without a shadow of a doubt are the kids that God intended for my husband and me. But, life with attachment disordered children is hard. It is VERY different than my dreams of parenthood, let me say that.

A good book to read to get an overview of this life is Parenting the Hurt Child by Gregory Keck and Regina Kupecky.

Good luck. We really don't want to rain on your parade, just want you to be informed. The matching process is quite trying. Hang in there!

[mab_123]

You have some good advice here and I would agree with all of them. We were told that my oldest didn't have attachment disorder and guess what well he does. He had been in care for over 2 yrs in about 10 different foster home throughout the 2 yrs. Hello who wouldn't have attachment disorder.


Do alot of reserch and ask alot of question. I wish you all the best and luck in the world. I can tell you are excited and really want to be a mommy. Just remeber if these are not the kids for you there are some out there that are

Good Luck