[Learning2wait]

I accidentally posted this on epals, which it doesn't really fall under, so sorry for the duplication.

JR entered care 2/04, went to adoption 9/04, last saw bmom 1/05, she was involuntary TPR'd 7/05. She called 8/05 for a visit and the swer told her "too bad, too late". She called again yesterday to bring gifts, get pictures and have a visit. SWer is fine on the 1st 2 but feels that tpr is over, your chance for visitation is up.
BUT, this time she asked me. I think a supervised visit would be good, at least maybe I can get a picture of him w/ bmom? When he asks I can say that she always remembered him in November w/ Christmas and his birthday coming up. Problem is, it seems that w/ tpr DSS doesn't "owe" her visitation so there's no one to supervise from there, so if I want it to happen it would have to be me.
I'd like other people's opinions on what is reasonable. The SW and DH seem to think the visit is a bad idea, but I haven't gotten reasons from her yet and DH doesn't have any he can verbalize... except that she had her rights terminated. I'm thinking I want to have as much info to help my child deal w/ adoption as he gets older, and having a visit will help.
So I want testimonies from both sides of the fence to help me decide whether to fight for a visit or to realize that it would be better to not. I don't think it would create any confusion about who my son's "mommy" is, last time he lived w/ her he was 3 mos old and now he's almost 2, for him I think it would be a visit w/ a stranger. (Who I'm told he strongly resembles). For me it would be something to put in his journal, when he says "tell me about my bmom" I can have more than just what DSS has given in the last almost 2 years.

[TexasJingles]

I wouldn't do it.

Our kids bmom came by the office twice with things for the kids. SW'r brought me the pictures, but said to copy them for the kids because she didn't want them to read what she had written on the back.

It was things like "you know I'll always be your mommie" and "don't let them tell you I don't love you". Swr just wants the kids to have closure. They've had their "good-bye visit" and need to move on a little so they can attach to us.

With the kids bio history, I wouldn't chance meeting their bmom. She's followed one foster mom home, she intimadates (sp?) those around her (even got a swr taken off the case! as well as 2 of the kids removed from one foster home into another).

With a forced TPR, it's a closed adoption.

I feel bad, but it's for the kids safety and well being that they wait until they are adults to reconnect...should they choose. I've read the records...it's bad. As an adult, they can protect themselves, and hopefully see through clear glasses and not the rose-colored ones they have on right now.

Our kids know that "mom" has a lot of grown-up problems. They know that she loves them, but that she needs to take care of herself first before she can take care of others. With her life style, odds are she won't be around when the kids are adults...but you never know.

I don't know if that helps or not. I just know that in our case, I wouldn't do it. Too many things can go wrong.

[Sunshine Mom]

I will vote the opposite way and say that a visit could be a very good thing. Healing for bio mom and important for child down the road.

I would however, establish parameters of the visit before it happens. Maybe talk to bio mom and make sure she understands that the child will refer to her as whatever name you have chosen, rather than mommy. That he has been adopted now. Maybe talk to her about what is and isnt allowed at the visit. For example, if she shows up high, no visit, if she becomes so emotional its upsetting for the child (tears are to be expected though), the visit is ended, if she talks in a way that makes the child insecure (I am your mommy) the visit will be ended.

She has everything to lose here and I imagine that she would be willing to agree to any stipulations you have set up. I would also go into the visit having thought about future contact. Are you going to send pictures? Are you willing to discuss future visits or ongoing letter contact? What about future siblings? Those things are important for your son and you should think them through.

[Howdy]

What do you know about the bmom, have you read the file, do you feel like she is psychologically stable? My dd's bparents are extremely charming and make a terrific first impression. But they are, to sum it up quickly, totally whacked.

Since your child is so young, not yet in the age that mixes up fantasy and reality (I think, if I correctly remember child development books I've read), and wasn't old enough to have any tramatic memories (tho not sure about that), I'd guess that if the mother is not an unsafe person (which I would think she is, otherwise why did she lose custody of her child), then it might be okay to have a meeting. Maybe a video exchange would be better (if she is inappropriate on a video you can just not show it to your child until they are older).

My dd is not at all comparable with yours because she was already 7 yrs old when she went into foster care, and 9 yrs old when I adopted her. For my daughter, there are too many tramatic memories reawaken by contact with her parents. And with the adoption very new, she also needs time to get used to being my child and having me for a 'real' mom.

[leaabc123]

I would also advise caution. TPR's don't happen for no reason and bio-moms and bio-dads can do whatever they have to, to elicit sympathy.

You could start with a PO box that she can send letters and photos to and that you can correspond from. Then see what happens.

[Kate1129]

Is the visit for you or him?


It sounds to me like YOU want the visit, perhaps our of curiosity?

I wouldn't do it, the other's have shared what I feel!

[smousekc]

My gut feeling would be...the SW'ers see this every day...and if they are saying no...there is a reason.

As far as the journal goes....have her send a picture of herself. It would not be worth the risk. Cheryl

[Imdamommy]

Our caseworker explained it to us this way... If a parent is TPR, then the judge is ruling this is an unsafe person. If you allow a visit and something horrible happens, then you are responsible. You risk having charges against you for failing to protect your child.

Our caseworker advises against it and I agree.

[Mammie]

Hi SandeeC,

Gosh! What a tough decision! You really need to take the time to weigh the pros and cons on this one.

If it were me, I would definately want to read the file on bio mother.

Also, actively listen to the SW (who is trained in these matters and knows this woman) and the hubby (who loves you and the child!). Their gut feelings can't just be ignored. They want what is best for this child, too.

IF, you REALLY HAVE TO get a photo for the lifebook, try the PO box route first ("Hey - would love to have a photo of you for the child - send it here.")

If you FEEL you MUST meet, just meet WITHOUT the child the first time, IN A PUBLIC place. Have a girlfriend or someone either with you or where they can be watching you with cell phone in hand. Get a read on bio mother, before you expose the little one to her.

I personally, would not expose my precious to her. She had her chance. She can wait until he is an adult and WANTS to contact her.

[mom2GRLC]

I have adopted 3 times through fostercare. I've fostered 38 kids and currently have a 1 year old FS who will almost certianly be available for adoption soon as well. Each case is different, but we do have contact with as many birth families as we can....some VERY OPEN and others no contact at all.

1) Our 6 year old son: Came into fostercare right before he turned 2. Lived with his Fostermom for almost 2 years, then rights were terminated and he spent a few months in an adoptive home that failed then he came to our home to be adopted.

We've visited his fostermom a few times, but our son regressed and had a hard time. So we only speak on the phone every now and then or send pictures and updates. We have written and sent pictures to his grandma and bmom. Bmom couldn't read the letter and a friend of hers wrote me saying he will hold the letter until she is at a point where she can handle knowing more. Grandma has written and sent presents and we've spoken on the phone, we will probably be meeting sometime this coming year.

2) Our 3 1/2 year old daughter. She came to our home at 14 months old and bmom signed away her rights after she had been in care for 1 1/2 years(before her rights were terminated so her other baby wouldn't be taken into care) we've had very open contact for the last year but have had to take a break recently because our relationship was becoming unhealthy and overly emotional on all of us. We have had several visits and phone calls and over the last few months exchanged letters/pictures and lots of e-mail. We also have contact with her extended family on occassion. Just yesterday we had her grandma come watch her in Gymnastics/dance and then go to lunch.

3) Our 19 month old daughter: came to us at 5 days old. Bmom had placed her for adoption at birth. It was a closed adoption and we have been lucky enough to get her bmom's name and a picture of her(a big miracle...because a friend of ours went to school with her bmom and ....realized the connection and gave us a picture they had taken in class.)

4) Our 13month old FS: We've had since he was 8 weeks old. DHS is asking for TPR at the court hearing this DEC. I currently attend the weekly supervised visitations. When and if we do adopt him we will likely have contact through our P.O. box and e-mail only because his father has a very bad history, which makes us not want to be involved with him in any other way.

Having contact and getting to know the bfamily really changes EVERYTHING!!!! You will never know how emotional and draining and wonderful it is unless you have actually tried it.

From someone who has been there.....DO NOT JUST JUMP IN BLINDLY!!!! Take your time...let the relationship evolve over time. Do not expect all the answers. Do not expect them to want to share things with you....(about themselves...their medical/family history/ the pregnancy/the memories they might have when the baby was little) don't go into the relationship thinking it will be an equal...give and take relationship because more than likely you will be the one giving and giving and not seeing much back in return(it's very hard...especially when you want your child to have all the answers).

I have found that by getting to know the birthparents...it does change the way you feel about them and also about your child. It can be very difficult to picture this child as yours....in the same way you did before you met them.....so you must be willing to accept that change....I'm also a very compasionate person to see others in pain or having trouble accepting You as the parent of their child.....so it has been especially hard with one of my adoptions(made even harder because of the frequent open contact we have had in the past.

Seeing a picture is different than meeting the actual person. So that may be the logical first step to getting to know each other.

But, you can find out more for your child by having actual visits....people are more likely to talk face to face than to just sit down and write letters and info down for the child. (I've also learned that...lesson)

Since you never had a goodbye visit, I would probably agree to it...it would probably help give each of you closure.....as long as you looked at it in that way. Not in the way of...this is a promise of things to come(meaning more visits and more contact, but as the LAST visit.

Personally, if you have never met her...I would definately go through DHS....there is NO REASON why they can't allow it. They may not owe HER anything. But you can ask them as a favor for you and your child. DHS wouldn't even have to supervise......they could just give you a room and you could leave the door open and have your visit(for about an hour...that's enough time) then you could either end contact completely after that or give her your P.O. Box(very cheap to open) and start off with contact that way. Then you'd have a starting point or you'd have closure....either one....but it would be through DHS...and not you....so bmom won't be expecting anymore from you.

Sorry to make this sSOOOOO long...!!!!!

[jandn]

If you are just wanting more information about the person who gave birth to your wonderful son...I would go about it in another way. Go to the library and get her high school yearbook for a picture. Hire a PI and ask for specific info that may paint a portrait for you....what kind of car she drives, what she does for a living, where she lives, etc....all public information that you can get easily. All information that your son may cherish if he wants to search for her later in life.

She wasn't in a place in her life where she could parent, unless you know for sure that something has drastically changed, it's probably too soon to expect her to respect your boundries or wishes. IMHO

[mallory4]

Even though I would be dying for information myself, I think caution might be the best approach.......

You could put many of the questions you have about biofamily in writing, tell her they are for his baby book, and give her pictures in return, letting her know that future meetings aren't ruled out but you need time to see whether she/you can handle them.

I think the PO box is a good idea, unless she already has your address. If you do decide on a visit, and DHS won't supervise, perhaps you could find a therapist, family counselor or pastor who would agree to have the meeting on their turf?

It must be so difficult and so tempting...good luck!

[celiascreams]

I would welcome letters and photos, but I wouldn't have her visit. She had plenty of time to get her act together and didn't.

[crick]

I can see your reasons for wanting to visit. However, like you said...this person is a stranger.

And like others have said, you have no idea who she is as a person. I'm not saying she fits the stereotype image of the "crack addicted bmom", but since you don't know her as a person, it very well may be that she isn't someone you would want to have your son around depending on where she is at emotionally or physically in her life. Why take a chance with your son's well being if she is not in a good place to have a visit?

Definitely read the file and get all the information you can from the SW. I would then set up a po box and start contact from there. Think a beginning is the best place to start, rather than in the middle.

You can do a visit alone with her too, before deciding it's the right time for your son to meet her.

Best Wishes!

[csimmons]

I would not allow a visit. It could confuse the child. You could encourage the mother to send pictures of herself and maybe write a letter to your foster child. And if you feel comfortable, you could send her a letter and a picture once a year, say on his birthday. This would keep the two of you linked but without risk of hurting the child emotionally.