[nursie]

Has anyone done a contract in court that allows bp who relinquish their rights to have visits with the child after relinquishment/adoption . We are hoping to adopt our 6 month old fd and the CW may offer bdad the option to have monthly unsupervised visits , we think this may lead to him giving a voluntary relinquishment if he knows he can have contact.
My fear is that is pretty stringent and we are open to contact post-adoption but I am not sure I want it to be in writing and so specific as to how much and when. I want flexiblity and the final say so as to when and for how long he gets visits. After all, she will be our child in every other legal sense. I don't want to have to change our family plans because he has a visit with her a particular weekend.
Has anyone heard of this? Done this?
Any thoughts on this?
We want her to be in a safe home for her lifetime which we could provide vs. Dad. I just don't know if this type of arrangement would work out for everyone.
All thoughts appreciated.

[morandi7]

My understanding is open adoption "contracts" are not enforceable after the adoption is finalized, but that may be state specific. I'm taking classes for fost-adopt right now and we learned that doing visits with the bio-parents may help with them deciding to relinquish their rights, after they see the stable family their child is with. I've never heard of the court ordering parental visits post adoption. I wouldn't mess with the parental visits prior to adoption, because that's one area where the parent can appeal to have their child back saying they were denied their visits. I would just go along with the arrangement for now, just so not to rock the boat and then once the adoption is final, you can decide what you want. Then you will be the legal parents and are under no obligation to commit to a stringent schedule. Let us know what happens. Lisa

[L-A-J-C-R-C]

Hi Nursie,

I don't know about MN but in KY open adoption agreements are not binding. I am surprised - VERY - that the social worker is actually suggesting that. It seems to be a little underhanded to me. Kind of like, sign your rights away and you get to see her again; don't and you don't. See what I mean?

I don't know how long your fc has been with you but I would allow the case to play out how it will. That way you will know when you adopt her that you have done everything in your power to help them work towards reunification.

I will remember you in my prayers and pray that things work out well.

Michelle

[banjo]

nursie, I'd be upfront about how long and how often you would want the post adoption visits to be. It would be grossly unfair to mislead the bfather into thinking that he's going to get regular visits and then find out he has no rights after the paper work has signed and you are not going to keep to the agreement.
All that does is make the aparents look bad and put bparents off open adoption which can be a positive solution in some cases.

how are you going to explain to your child when they are an adult and realised that you stopped them from getting to know their bfather?

Think it through and be honest. If this baby is meant to be part of your family then it will be. I would have been totally emotionally and mentally destroyed if my bdaughter's parents had gone back on their word. it's tough enough signing the papers. best of luck banjo

[bumpkin]

I don't mean to speak for nursie here, but I think that her intention is honorable, she isn't trying to get him to sign off as a bargaining chip. I think she is coming from the standpoint of the possibility he may think it's best for the child to stay with them, but can't imagine never seeing her again. I think that many birthparents would consider voluntary relinquishment if they knew they would have the opportunity to KNOW their child is alive, well and thriving. Having said that....

We have a LEGALLY BINDING contract for one visit per year with our twins bmom. We actually looked at it the opposite of you nursie, we wanted to have it spelled out as specifically as possible - when the visits were, who could attend, for how long, how they were set up, what would happen if the child didn't want to go, what would happen if one party doesn't show , that I could stop the visit at any time if I felt it detrimental to the child etc.... Ours also says that if she misses a visit the document becomes null and void and we no longer have to do visits. Sw's said it's quite common for them never to actually do the visit, but it let's them sign off with some dignity and good intentions anyway. We'll see next October.

If you would like more info, just let me know.

[Dmommab]

We don't have anything in writing with the birthmom of our 5 & 2 year old foster children that we are now adopting but we typically see her every 2-3 weeks. She lives about an hour and half away & has no transportation so I have to go to her house. I do think it's important for the kids to continue seeing her but I have cautioned her that as they get older & more "involved" in activities & friends that the visits may not be as often because they will be "busy". She seems to understand. She calls 3-4 times a week to talk to me to see how the kids are doing & we have a good relationship for the most part. I would be honest with him as to what your expectations are, otherwise you will both be in for a difficult time. good luck!!!

[nursie]

Thanks for all the great replies.
I am actually the one who suggested that the CW explain to the bdad that he has the option to do a voluntary relinquishment if he wishes and that we would agree to an open type adoption with contact through the years. The bdad is 'on the fence' about what to do ie. should he take her or sign her over. He thought that if he had his rights terminated that he would lose rights to his other 2 children who he doesn't have custody of but sees on a part time basis. He is behind in child support on one and I am not sure he pays any support to the other. But, nevertheless, he needs to know that signing over one child voluntarily does not keep him from his other children.
I am not trying to be underhanded or manipulate him but he is not in a very good position to take my fd. He may realize this and just be a bit undecided or unsure what the options are. My concern for removing her from our home is alsa that he would also separate her from her brother (who we plan to adopt)who is very attached to her and from the only parents she has known (we have had her since birth-over 6 months old now.)
I would not cut him out of her life but would not want visits with him to dictate our family's future. I did talk to him and told him I think bparents are a very important part of the child's identity and that I give him a lot of credit for coming forward and loving his child enough to not want her to go to an unfit bmom or to linger in foster care.
I really appreciate all the info and different experiences and views on this.

[tlc4kidz]

In our state agreements also are not legally binding. I was totally open to visits, but never unsupervised. The bps have decided for now it's too hard to see the kids, so I send pictures and a letter at the end of every month. I would not be comfortable leaving them unsupervised because the bps have ALOT of animosity toward the state, even though they voluntarily relenquished. I believe they would tell the kids they were "stolen" not by us, but by DSS. I think that would be confusing for them as they got older. I agree with bumpkin....I would want the agreement very detailed.

[nursie]

The bdad had a family assessment today and he made the comment , 'they should just be able to give her to me after the next court date' which is 4/19.
I guess today he is of the mindset of wanting her himself.
His life is so unstable in all areas and that is where my sadness lies. Just because he is the bparent, even tho his life is a mess he may just do the minimal and the judge will give her to him. He told me 'the only reason I have K is because I slept with the wrong women. ' Nice.
My heart is breaking, how in the world can you let go of a child to a bad situation and still go on living? He does not have a bond with her as he has only seen her 4-5 times.
I have to pray and let go of the stress and pain , knowing that I really don't have control over the outcome but it is tearing my husband & I up inside.

[tlc4kidz]

(((((nursie)))))
It does hurt, and I don't have any real words of wisdom. Pray alot. I remember once when we were still unsure about our outcome our kids bfather said "when they come home we're going to have you over for a cook out". I knew that it was a real possibility that they could go and that there were some REAL issues going on that IMO did not make it safe. My heart just stopped. I swore I would be the one needing therapy and suffering from PTSD before it was over. You and your family/fd will be in my prayers.

[aterry]

We thought we were going to be faced with the same situation but with the biological grandparents. We were told by our lawyer that no judge would do that. We were very glad to hear that. Like you - we are willing to allow the grandparents to visit but we did not want to have it be so structured. However we are now facing a hateful granmother who does not feel we are giving her enough time. She just does not understand how busy we are and that we have two families of our own that we spend a lot of time with. I never realized how difficult this relationship would be.

[Kate1129]

Nursie and aterry,

I am sorry you are facing the loss of your children. I too was faced with the same possibilities of an open adoption some members of the birthfamily. Well it became a moot point when the judge sent them home.

I pray your outcome is different!
K.