[roche]

I am a fostermom to a beautiful 7 month old baby. His ** is in a different fosterhome and so far plan has solely concentrated on reunification and I know ** wants baby placed with her eventually.

The other day ** got frustrated and told cw that the baby's fostermom should just adopt him.

Next day ** told cw she felt better and that she still wanted to keep baby.

When ** initially made her comment, I felt that she was just frustrated and didn't really mean it. So the next day when she "felt better" I wasn't surprised.
I pretty much expected it since she is so young and I know she loves her baby.

However, this is my question.

If ** expresses such a comment once, is it more likely that longterm down the road she may consider relinquishing? In other words, has a seed been planted and she may consider this more in the future?

Just wonder what others experiences are with young birthmoms.

Thanks, Roche

[mj77]

She could concider it but keep in mind the cw is documenting what ** tells her. Those comments are certainly not in **'s favor.

[Missy M]

Originally posted by mj77
She could concider it but keep in mind the cw is documenting what ** tells her. Those comments are certainly not in **'s favor.

Wow...as a person who was once a very young frustrated MOTHER ( she has NOT relinquished at this point so she is not a birthmother) I would have been devestated to learn that someone was actually recording my statements in order to use against me in an attempt to avoid reunification.

Roche asks:If ** expresses such a comment once, is it more likely that longterm down the road she may consider relinquishing? In other words, has a seed been planted and she may consider this more in the future?

Just wonder what others experiences are with young birthmoms.


I want to answer by saying again this young lady isn't a birthmom at this point; she is a mother. She is also a person unique and different in her own right. It won't matter if I tell you what thoughts and feelings I had as a young birthmother because they were shaped by my experiences, feelings, thoughts and emotions at that time; she is being shaped by hers. We aren't a seperate "class" of people; we are simply people with a shared experience. It would be foolish of me to ask you or anyone "Based on your experiences what do women with blonde hair like to eat?" To do so would be to insinuate/assume that women with blonde hair are all the same and like eating the same foods.
BTW: I hope that you are curious as to why the initials you used to describe her are automatically replaced with astriks * * in this forum...if you are wondering just pm me for the info...MissyM

ps>>> as a rule mothers don't place based on a whim or a "planted seed." The B-moms I know, myself included, struggled long and hard before making this decision. I actually made the determination in my 5th month of pregnancy that adoption was right for my daughter and I didn't make it based on whatever frustration I was feeling at that moment and niether should this mother. I hope someone who has her and her baby's best interest in mind is there to represent them in case it comes to that point, especially since someone is keeping track of her statements now...MM

[St.Ives]

quote:
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Originally posted by mj77
She could concider it but keep in mind the cw is documenting what ** tells her. Those comments are certainly not in **'s favor.
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Wow...as a person who was once a very young frustrated MOTHER ( she has NOT relinquished at this point so she is not a birthmother) I would have been devestated to learn that someone was actually recording my statements in order to use against me in an attempt to avoid reunification.

Roche asks:If ** expresses such a comment once, is it more likely that longterm down the road she may consider relinquishing? In other words, has a seed been planted and she may consider this more in the future?

Just wonder what others experiences are with young birthmoms.


I want to answer by saying again this young lady isn't a birthmom at this point; she is a mother. She is also a person unique and different in her own right. It won't matter if I tell you what thoughts and feelings I had as a young birthmother because they were shaped by my experiences, feelings, thoughts and emotions at that time; she is being shaped by hers. We aren't a seperate "class" of people; we are simply people with a shared experience. It would be foolish of me to ask you or anyone "Based on your experiences what do women with blonde hair like to eat?" To do so would be to insinuate/assume that women with blonde hair are all the same and like eating the same foods.
BTW: I hope that you are curious as to why the initials you used to describe her are automatically replaced with astriks * * in this forum...if you are wondering just pm me for the info...MissyM

ps>>> as a rule mothers don't place based on a whim or a "planted seed." The B-moms I know, myself included, struggled long and hard before making this decision. I actually made the determination in my 5th month of pregnancy that adoption was right for my daughter and I didn't make it based on whatever frustration I was feeling at that moment and niether should this mother. I hope someone who has her and her baby's best interest in mind is there to represent them in case it comes to that point, especially since someone is keeping track of her statements now...MM

I agree 100% with every word. You are a very wise woman, Missy.

[yanknrebel]

I give. WHY are there astericks after the word birthmother or birthfather as initials?

[St.Ives]

The forum administration edits out the initials for birthmother, not for birthfather. There is an edit program in place which automatically substitutes asterisks, the same way it edits out profanities and replaces them with asterisks.
It is the general consensus of this forum that the initials B. M. are disrespectful and offensive when used in reference to birthmothers. For starters, the abbreviation B.M. is more commonly associated with something you do in the toilet, so the connotation is sort of icky.
Additionally, it seems sort of dismissive to refer to birthmothers by any initials. It's just as convenient to type "bmom", and much kinder and more respectful, as it honors their status as biological mothers.
The fact is, this is a support forum for all members of the triad. There are many birthmothers here, and we need to regard their feelings and respect their positions in the triad, as well as those of adoptive parents and adoptees.
So anyway, I hope this clarifies things. The letters are edited out because the abbreviation is potentially hurtful to birthmothers who come to the forum seeking support.
Nobody blames newcomers who initially post this abbreviation, since they are not yet aware of the forum etiquette. Everyone knows they are not trying to offend, but just do not know.
Live and learn.

[riley6]

Our younger kids have a very young bmom. She knew that she was unable to parent them. She had tried until my son was 4 and dd was 2. She then gave them to their VERY abusive bf. They were placed in fc bc of SEVERE abuse. Both kids were head to toe bruises in various stages of healing. Bmom wanted the kids back, but didn't know how she was going to parent them. She had her parents' support, but they told me their health wasn't very good and the stress from the kids' issues made their health problems worse.

Bmom had supervised visitations in her home with a home aide. The home aide tried to teach her parenting skills, but bmom just didn't have the emotional or psychological capacity to understand what the aide was trying to teach her. After about nine months, the aide told bmom that the kids were doing really well with us and we loved them. She said that it might be possible for the two families to work something out so the bmom didn't lose the kids altogether, but would be able to see them grow up. The bmom asked the sw if I could start supervising the visits so she could get to know me. The sw said yes and for the last three months before tpr, I supervised the visits.

The month before tpr, the bmom and her mom were at the visit. The bmom asked me what would happen if she wasn't able to get the kids back. I told her I love the kids and would hope to be able to adopt them. She told me that her fear was that she'd never see them again and they'd think she hated them. I told her that I would NEVER let them think that. If she signed the papers tpr'ing her rights, I would tell the kids that she loved them enough to let them stay with us, bc she knew they love us and we love them. I told her I'd feel comfortable with two visits a year and would send pictures and updates two time a year. She agreed and vtpr.

We have had the kids 3 yrs and so far things have worked out well. The kids get to see her twice a year (sometimes more when we run into each other in the mall or community) and know that she's ok. The gparents get to be gp's to the kids and not have to worry about how they're being raised. It's been a good situation for us.

The parent aide wrote down EVERYTHING that the bmom told her. Documentation was very strict. It should be in every foster care situation! Sometimes these kids come out of horrific situations and the only way to protect them is to document what's said and done. It is different than in a parent placement. Also, in fostering situations, it's very common for biological parents to be called birth parents before tpr. It's the way the system differentiates the adults involved. Even though I was the one caring for the children 24/7, cleaning up their puke when they were sick, going to the schools for the IEPs, rocking them back to sleep when they had their nightly night mares, I was JUST the foster parent! Up until the day the judge signed our papers! It may not be technically correct, but it's the way the system is. Even the legal papers said: Birth mother, so and so, Foster mother, so and so, Birth father, so and so...

[roche]

Hi,

I appreciate everyone's comments. And also, my intent was not to "lump" or simplify all birthmothers into one category. If I came across that way, I do apologize. I do very very much agree that the "birthmother is the mother."

This baby is my first placement and I was under the impression that fostermom and birthmom were expressions used merely to differentiate who was being referred to - not to demean anyone. In no way have I ever used that term to demean the mother. I do feel that she is the mother and I have worked very hard on my part to help in the reunification process. I have felt bad about the mother only having one hour visits with her baby because I can only imagine how I would feel if I were in her shoes. I have called the caseworker and asked if I could invite the mother to all of the doctors' appointments and WIC appointments and otherwise, although no one recommended it to me. Because she is so young and I know she doesn't have much money, I have had baby portraits taken and given the pictures to her, her mother, her sisters, etc. I have given her disposable cameras to take pictures of her baby during visits. And I have given her clothes the baby grew out of to give to her sister (who has a baby) who sometimes accompanies visits. I also initiated half day visits with the mothers becasue I felt bad she only got one hour visits. i asked the caseworker and she gave permission. I also knew Mother's Day would be painful, so I asked permission of caseworker for birthmom to have her baby that day.

Although I love this baby, I often remind myself that he is not my baby, that I am a stepping stone in his life to provide love and security for him while his mother is working towards reunification.

She could concider it but keep in mind the cw is documenting what ** tells her. Those comments are certainly not in **'s favor.

As far as a caseworker documenting a birthparent's comments, I do not feel that that is inappropriate. Maybe I am inexperienced, but I would hope that a caseworker would document EVERYONE's comments that seem pertinent to the case. Everyone--including a foster parent, guardian ad litem, and all the children involved. Comments are not just comments. They represent the feelings of other people. I don't view documenting comments as a weapon against the birthparents. I view it as wanting to take down as much information to be able to help in the decision making process.

As to the birthmother "mentioning" her statement to the caseworker -- I personally did not take that as a "true" feeling. I felt she was having a bad day and felt overwhelmed (and I don't use the term "bad" to simplify her feelings, either). I do feel that she loves her baby. I mentioned that previously.


I may be inexperienced as a foster parent, but as an adopted older child myself who had lived with various families before being adopted, I do understand the pain and ramifications of giong through some of this.

And while I agree that it would be inappropriate to lump all birthmothers into one category -- there can be a range or steps of emotions a group of people can experience. For example, as an older adopted child, I went through many years of depression having felt a great loss in my life. While not all older adopted children may experience the same exact emotions I did--I think it would be appropriate to say that it is not unusual for older adopted children to suffer from depression and a great sense of loss.

(Obviously it would be "lumping" to say that older adopted children like chocolate icecream).

(That is just an example and I am not saying that others involved do not experience a sense of loss.

So if I came across as simplifying or demeaning birthmothers, I feel a desire to defend myself and also apologize. As to my own birthmother, I know for a fact that she suffered tremendous pain and most likely still suffers becuase of my adoption. I myself have had to go to several years of counseling.

I do not take the decisoin making process of relinquishment lightly. That is why I asked in my post what other foster parents have experienced. Through sharing experiences we can learn and that was all I was trying to do. If I thought that everyone would respond or experience the same, i wouldn't have asked for others' experiences.

In a previous post I made -- I was private mailed and advised that I had given out too much information in my post and that I might want to not give out so much information.. So while my post may have been brief and appeared to simpify the situation -- I was merely trying to make my post brief. In doing so I may have come across as insensitive like I was categorizing a birthmother's feelings.

I do apologize for that as I do not wish to hurt anyone.

Roche

[yanknrebel]

St. Ives, thank you very much for that explanation. Makes sense. Will make sure and say "bmom" from now on.

Riley,

We have been waiting for the tpr of our fd for 2 1/2 years. We have had her since birth. It's pretty much a given that the bmom will be tpr'd. The bf looks promising to be tpr'd but just won't know until we get to court. My husband, who is adopted and has found his bparents, and I have always felt the very best thing for our foster daughter (if we get to adopt her) is to allow her to have contact with her bf and paternal grandmother as well as cousins and aunts, and uncles. We believe that no child can be loved too much. This bf has always been told that we would allow him to be part of this child's life , as well as his mom and family members. We have made it VERY clear that the bmom (who he says he is no longer seeing, but we know better) will NOT ever be able to see this child until the child reaches the age of 18. The bmom served 4 1/2 years of a 10 year sentence for 2 counts of severe child abuse of her first 2 children, so we do not feel that this child will ever be safe around this bmom, until the child reaches adult hood. It will then be the child's decision. The bf and his mother have always told us they were extremely blessed to have us as the foster parents for this child. They know we love this child as we do our own bio children. However, this bf is still planning on appealing the decision if he is tpr'd. Approx. 6 months ago, the bf and the bmom were both going to surrender, but could not be found when the cw went to meet with them. They finally resurfaced 3 days later when the bf wanted to set up supervised visitation. We have now decided (since it has become apparent that he is still with this woman and still drinking) that if we get to adopt this child, that we will still allow minimum contact, via pictures, videos, and 2 visits a year (supervised by us) and he will be called by his first name and not "daddy", though the child will be told at the appropriate age that he is her birthfather and (age appropriate) how and why she became our child. We would've been alot more liberal with this man with visitations but feel he still does not beleive the bmom did those things to her children and would put this child in harms way by allowing her to have contact with this child if given the chance.

[roche]

Hi guys,

Okay. If you could give me some advise, i'd appreciate it.

So it is inapprorpiate to use the initials? I appreciate that advice, too.

But is birthmom or mother also inappropriate?
So just use the term "mother" and then call the foster parent "foster parent"or "foster mom"?

Thanks, Roche

[riley6]

We do not have an OA with our younger kids' bf. He vtpr'd, but only bc he didn't want his checks garnished any more. He and his gf were VERY abusive to my kids. He allowed a convicted child rapist live in his house after he was released from jail, bc he didn't think he'd do anything to his kids, since they were "blood". Well, he DID do something to my kids. Bf's two youngest kids are still exposed to this rapist. BF doesn't seem to believe his older kids (my kids), so his younger kids are now at risk.

Everyone has to make a decision for themselves, taking into account their own circumstances and comfort levels, how much contact is possible. I'm fortunate that it's a good situation AT THIS TIME, so my kids can benefit from OA. The next six month visitation is coming up soon for my kids and I'm dreading talking to the bmom about her husband not being allowed to come with her. I've been trying to get up enough nerve to call her and give her fair warning that it's her and her parents alone, or no visit. I'm such a wimp!

[riley6]

Roche, initials are fine, if you use "bmom" instead of just "bee emm". Legally, the mother is still the mother until she relinquishes or tpr has happened, but in foster care circles, everyone calls the birth mother, the birth mother, even before tpr. It's just that bmoms who have relinquished, take issue with the bmom not being a bmom, bc she still has parental rights. Did I say that clearly?

Maybe we should change and say biological mom (biomom) instead of birth mom until tpr has happened. We could do that on the boards, but the fact is that the system has said birth mom for as long as the system's been in place and probably will never change. We had a long discussion about this on another thread.

[Missy M]

Hi...please know that I didn't feel or mean to imply that you had posted anything you needed to apologize for. You didn't; in fact your post indicated that you were much more understanding than the system and the CW involved. BTW: My youngest daughter is a Social Worker for CPS in Dallas and she also stated how vital it is that everything be noted. She says its for the protection of everyone involved and has often been a major point FOR reunification.
(Guess I never thought of that and simply pictured someone saying something trivial after a hard day and having it used against them; like me getting upset at d/h for being late on Luther Vandross concert day and me saying ugh...I could strangle him and being charged with pre-mediated murder because of it. ). You indicated that you felt the same way, so there was certainly no need for an apology and there will never be a need to apologize here for simply asking a question.
I hope everything works out for you inthis situation and I apologize if my response was harsh....MissyM

[roche]

Hi MissyM.

No worries. I guess none of us can help being a little sensitive (espeically me) because the issues and concerns we talk about here are so relevant and so important. It's not like this is a Diet Board.

Well, actually, I would probably be oversensitive on a Diet Board too!

The things we talk about here on this Board can really be life altering. I have to say I have to respect you a lot for what you've been through. And while I was oversensitive to your remarks, I do appreciate your comments. And now I can make sure that I NEVER EVER call the mother a "Bee Em." Wow, that never would have occured to me if you guys hadn't enlightened me.

When you mentioed the ** I couldn't figure it out on my own. I was, like, does it have to do with confidentiality? Isn't "**" confidential enough? Did I make someone angry? Shows what an idiot I am.

I really like meeting people here, and I hope to learn more from you guys.

Take care, Roche

[St.Ives]

So it is inapprorpiate to use the initials? I appreciate that advice, too.

But is birthmom or mother also inappropriate?

The general feeling on the forum and in the adoption community is that a woman is a "mother", a "biological mother", an "expectant mother" (applicable only if she is still pregnant), or a "potential birthmother" until she has legally relinquished her parental rights or until her parental rights have been legally terminated. At that point, she becomes a "birthmother".

"Birthmother" is appropriate terminology only for a woman who has no parental rights, who has lost or relinquished her parental rights over her children.
Acceptable abbreviations include "birthmom", "bmom", and "bmother".
"B.M." is the only abbreviation that anyone has a problem with.
As far as I know, no one has any problem with foster mothers being called "foster mothers".