[daddysangel]

Stacy,Josie,Mamas
Very well said.Mamas my only question on the appeals court is this.I agree any apeals court in the USA would not allow our daughter to be taken from the home she has known for 8 yrs.However what happens if the Bfather bankrupts you before it gets to that point and the court system rips her from the home? Who suffers the most while her parents try to understand the shock and try to recover to start the fight over again?Even though in the courts eyes this guy has rights if she was to be ripped from her home SHE(our little angel) would view it as someone taking (stealing) her away from her parents.After 8 yrs she does not view us as adoptive parents.She knows that she is adopted but her sweet little brain and heart will not allow her to view us as adoptive parents.We are mom and dad and if it was as simple as she believes all she has to do is tell the judge that she decided she would like to stay with her mom and dad.Those were her words and as far as she is concerned case closed.I do not respect the rights of the bfather to this child because after 8yrs of doing nothing I believe he gave those up.Like Stacy said If it were my child the first 8yrs of her life would of been spent with me.I do not care what the court system believes to be his rights because I look at it more in a human standpoint and what GOD believes to be right verses wrong.Also in a human standpoint I do not respect him as a man.This girl has been raised with a certain standard of living (in other words we spoil her).Any man that will come into her life and try to take that away or bring that standard down will never gain my respect.I believe that if he truly cared about the well being of his biological daughter he would not attempt that and he would of agreed to open adoption and he would of called her and sent her B cards or something.In 8yrs he has done absolutely nothing except hurt her standard of living.It is true that we as parents do not respect his rights or him as a man BUT we have NEVER shown that to this little girl nor will we ever.I do believe there will come a day when she will want to meet him and she will be old enough to make that determination on her own.All we want is for her to grow up happy and an all around good human being and if we fill her head with bad thoughts about her bparents then WE are taking away from her all that we want for her.
MAY GOD BLESS YOU ALL

[StacyKelly2]

I agree with you 100%!!!!! These children know us as mommy and daddy and to pull them away from us is just heartless. For once, these guys need to think about what is best for the child! The birth fathers allowed this to continue and knowingly sat back and did nothing - if anything they want to be a part of their childs life then fine, do so through open adoption. Ripping these angels away from the only family they know is just wrong. Why should the child have to suffer losing a family? How do we explain to a child that now you might be ripped away from us....When in our hearts this is our child has been from the day we held him in our arms!!! Where were the birth fathers when these angels were born? Where were they when they said their first words?Took their first steps? Said mommy and daddy...We nutured, cared, and most of all love these children. And we all will stick together and do whatever it takes because we are all following our hearts....and God will give us the strength...- He knows how much these angels mean to each and every one of us. Years of not doing anything should be enough to terminate their rights. Every child deserves stability and peace in knowing that the family he/she is growing up with should be the family that they will never have to leave. Keep praying...we all have God and through Him all things are possible!!

[ChristieS]

Originally Posted by daddysangel

he has done absolutely nothing except hurt her standard of living.

I think the main thing in common with all of our cases,from a legal standpoint, is that all of this is not in the best interest of the child. When will the courts, legislators, someone, begin to look out for these children?

From a personal standpoint, we have all been hurt in the fears and anxieties which result from such punishment to the real parents (US!) - those of us who raise these angels every day. Of course, this too is not in the child's best interest.

In my case not one person has ever asked about my son. Not the judge, lawyers, birthparents, my son's Guardian ad Litem, no one! And we have had three separate expert witnesses ready to testify about my son - none of whom were allowed to testify. We even offered the bmom the opportunity to speak to them personally (and we would pay) if she wanted to know how our son was doing. She declined.

We also have in common the fact that the birthparent does not seem to care about what is in the child's best interest. If they did - none of this would be happening, because this is NOT in these child's best interest.

Anxiety, money, fear, - we pay and pay and pay and still there is no resolution.

I am also asking for prayers, prayers, prayers, as our current motion has been filed and there has been no response from anyone. After what all I have been through my fear is that this means they are preparing a huge countermotion with yet again with more lies and crazy statements and conspiring to do their worst to us.

My HOPE is that I am just reacting to what has been done to us in the past and that in reality they have given up and will finally let all of this go. I'm trying hard not to live in the past, or live in my fears, but I am having a hard time.

I'm so thankful we can come here together for each other. Thank you!

(HUGS)

[Jaefer]

Good luck with you motion. Your family and all of the families that are going through this are in my thoughts and prayers. The only thing that keeps me going is knowing that God knows what is in the best interest of these children. That is why He placed them with us. I have faith that you, as well as everyone else going through these nightmares will finally get to be free to be the PARENTS that these children deserve without all of the financial and emotional burden that this has caused. I dream of the day that I can sit back and fully enjoy my son without wondering if this is permanent. God Bless you all!

[ChristieS]

Originally Posted by daddysangel

my only question on the appeals court is this.I agree any apeals court in the USA would not allow our daughter to be taken from the home she has known for 8 yrs.

I am also fairly certain an upper court would not allow my child to be taken away.

Originally Posted by daddysangel

However what happens if the Bfather bankrupts you before it gets to that point and the court system rips her from the home?

This is a very real issue. As most of you know the bmom in my case has been receiving free legal services from the State of Alabama. How can ANY INDIVIDUAL pay as much as the state? I have said before I can not outbid the state of Alabama for my son. These are CHILDREN - not cars, not houses, not objects to be bandied about and countless dollars being made off of. Further - this money would be MUCH better spent on a better lifestyle for our children. I don't DARE quit my job and stay home (although at one point I had that opportunity) - because who knows how much more we are going to have to pay?

Originally Posted by daddysangel

Who suffers the most while her parents try to understand the shock and try to recover to start the fight over again?

BTDT - this is true even while it is ongoing. daddysangel, I don't remember if you said you had been to an official court hearing yet - but having been through three - and having been put on the stand - each time it wears you down. The emotional toll this takes is indescribable. Each time they have filed against me (most of the time it was just me because my husband was in Iraq) I tried to understand the shock and recover from the litigation. At one point before one motion against me could be resolved they had already filed another.

Thanks for listening. Sometimes it feels like they are playing some sort of sick game.

Stacy, daddysangel, Jaefer, joskids - and all of us going through this - I wish for all of us peace. Keep us updated!

[stillwaiting]

We fought for our son for over 16 months. Our situation was very similar to yours, Stacy.

I can tell you it will DRAG out. One good thing I see in your case is that the birth father keeps changing his mind. He also is not pushing anything.

Trust your attonerys. They are right. You don't want to push anything except finalization.

In your state there should be a time limit as to how long a birth parent can contest. Is there not?

[StacyKelly2]

• The child has been out of the parent's custody for 1 year, and is in the custody of a child-placing agency.
• The child has been out of the parent's custody for 1 year, and has formed a significant attachment to the petitioner.
• The child has been abandoned.
• The parent has failed to maintain meaningful contact with the child or to support the child.
• The parent has been convicted of child abuse or a crime of violence against a child.

This is what I found Maryland statue when consent is not needed. I have however heard different things about this. One person (not an attorney) told me this will not apply since he sent in contesting the adoption. Also, we are still holding out because we are unsure if this applies to when he was the possible father or when he was actually the "legal" birth father through dna...which the baby was 11 months old.That would be another 6 months. Our only advice is just let him push if he wants the baby. His contesting the adoption was very early in this process when the baby was like 0-2 months. We are hopeful that the above would be enough to allow us to go forward with this adoption.....

[ChristieS]

We've been through this as well Stacy. 3 times now. All I can say is that in my case it seems there is an exception to every rule - and if there isn't one the opposing lawyers create one.

I still believe lawyers purposefully keep these things dragged out as they are looking out for THEIR best interest (money, of course). Who most benefits from these long, drawn-out litigations? The lawyers!

It is exceptionally hard on the adoptive family - but apparently not too hard on the contesting bparent (seeing as how they are not doing anything) - and the lawyers make money - so it seems the only ones who lose are the adoptive family. It makes me so mad!!

You would think we are asking for the moon and the stars to come down from the sky - when all we want is to be able to raise our children in peace like most parents are able to do.

It is hard sometimes not to fall into that deep, dark place of despair and fear. It is hard to push aside the thoughts of what is happening and live as if it is not. I'm so glad we can come here and get support from each other.

Thanks All!

[StacyKelly2]

That is what I do not understand how can there be an exception to a rule. Wouldn't a State Statue have to be something they would follow? Otherwise, why do they even have the Statue. This is where it is so confusing and unfair. To me this is clearly abandonment knowing of your child is in a possible adoption, where someone has temporary custody and just leaving the baby in their care for not months, but over a year.

[ChristieS]

Originally Posted by StacyKelly2

That is what I do not understand how can there be an exception to a rule. Wouldn't a State Statue have to be something they would follow? Otherwise, why do they even have the Statue. This is where it is so confusing and unfair. To me this is clearly abandonment knowing of your child is in a possible adoption, where someone has temporary custody and just leaving the baby in their care for not months, but over a year.

Yes, this is exactly what has made me the most angry at the court system. Even thinking about it makes me feel sick. VERY clear, VERY clean Codes in the Alabama Code - which we have surpassed multiple times. I don't get it.

When I went to the Attorney General's office I asked about this. When I filed with the State Bar I asked about this. Every attorney I have had I asked about this. The only answer in common I received was that it was up to the judge and if we didn't like it we could take it to appeals. I have had the option to file a complaint with the Judicial Inquiry Commission - but chose not to do so - who in the world would do that when their child's life is in that judge's hands?

Also, when we "win" a motion against us there is either another one already filed or one which is pending. For 4 1/2 years we have had something pending in the courts - several resolved, some not.

We are a little further along than you in that we have a "finalized" adoption but the motions against us have kept that "finalization" on hold.

Oh - by the way - I also went to our legislators (House and Senate) and asked how this is possible. I requested changes. Then I got filed against for going to the State House and complaining after we had a "finalized" adoption - and they (opposing counsel) questioned my "sanity" as if I didn't know we had an adoption. (Leaving out of course the multiple filings against me.)

It is completely insane! Again - I blame so much on the lawyers who make money on every case like this that gets dragged out. I am hoping my new attorney's goal is to STOP all this.

I've gone on a while venting - thank you for listening.

BTW - as an update: One month after our filing and not one word from opposing counsel. Seems this may be drug out quite a while longer.

I'm going to send you a PM - there is something new to add but I don't feel comfortable posting it out loud.

Prayers for all of us enduring this nightmare!

((HUGS))

[joskids]

I was told by the adoption expert, Adam Pertman, that, unfortunately for those of us waiting, the law is "subjective". So, basically, it IS up to the judge and even a different judge or magistrate in the same county could rule differently. There are loopholes. We have found them also to our advantage. I guess that makes the difference between a good attorney and a "not so good" attorney. But, in the end, even the loophole is "subjective" and that is why we all wait and worry and wonder. The one thing we have in common is that we love our children and, in our hearts, whether legally or not, they are OUR CHILDREN.

Hugs to all of you.
Josie

[ChristieS]

Originally Posted by joskids

I was told by the adoption expert, Adam Pertman, that, unfortunately for those of us waiting, the law is "subjective". So, basically, it IS up to the judge and even a different judge or magistrate in the same county could rule differently. There are loopholes. We have found them also to our advantage. I guess that makes the difference between a good attorney and a "not so good" attorney. But, in the end, even the loophole is "subjective" and that is why we all wait and worry and wonder. The one thing we have in common is that we love our children and, in our hearts, whether legally or not, they are OUR CHILDREN.

Hugs to all of you.
Josie

Thanks Josie. Yes, they are our children. Paperwork does not take that away. Multiple filings do not take that away. Subjective laws do not take that away. The courts may take our children away - but they are still OUR CHILDREN.

I am with Stacy in that I no longer understand why we even have laws anymore. What is the point if they can be twisted and turned every which way so that they no longer apply? Judges don't have to follow them - attorneys obviously DON'T follow them - why not just state that we have a judicial monarchy (or anarchy) and put the truth out there?

I recently read a book called "Legal Abuse Syndrome" by Karin Huffer which has really helped me. It talks about the trauma imposed on us in situations like this and gives suggestions on how to survive it.

I also read M. Scott Peck's "People of the Lie" which has helped me. I have tried so hard to survive this that I have read and read and read many different books, spoken with people, gone to counseling, searched my heart and soul for answers.

Thank you to each of you who have helped along the way. One of the best things I have done for myself is come to this message board. Thank you for the support.

((HUGS to ALL of us going through this))

[StacyKelly2]

Some people are unaware as to exactly what goes on with trying to adopt. I am bascially learning now as we go along. I thought we knew everything we needed to know, but until you actually live it you have no idea. 18 months and counting of not knowing what will happen next is just emotionally draining. Yet, coming on this forum you will see case after case of adoptions not being finalized. Nobody can really give you a straight answer as to what can happen..you feel so helpless. Yet, we continue to place our lives on hold until this one person decides its okay for the adoption to be finalized. When I found the State Statue I was a little at peace knowing that maybe we would have this to use against the birth father. I still find this all hard to believe 18 months and still nothing resolved. Then I see the other cases4 years, 8 years...How can this be? The media or someone needs to hear our cries and feel the pain we have to carry inside our hearts everyday. We love this angels as our very own! My only answer to everyone is we get our strength from God -and everytime we look at our little angels smiling face...People need to be made aware of the length of time these hopeful adoptions can keep going on...and on and on. These little angels deserve the right to have stability, and peace in knowing they will not be removed from the only family they know!

[ChristieS]

Since November is National Adoption Awareness month I wish we could get our stories into the press. There are so many of us struggling with this same issue - and it is just wrong.

Yes, the public needs to be made aware of these things. How to do that? I don't know as I spent 6 months contacting every news station in the country with no response. Not just the news, talk shows, ANYONE that I could think of.

The pain is so great it is a burden we carry heavily on our shoulders every day.

Again, I ask the question: Why in the world do we have laws?

I'm thankful we have each other.

[SadMomma]

Christine I with you about finding media outlets. What state are you in?