[SpyGirl3000]

I've poured through every thread in this forum. My heart goes out to many of you. Sometimes I wonder if I'm getting "the whole story", sometimes I'm sure that I am Just as I'm sure you'll wonder if you're getting the "whole story" from me. Probably not, because one very important thing I've learned in the "adoption" process is that there can be many sides to every story. But at the very least you have mine. I read these forums to gain insight into how my child's PAPs are thinking, how they feel, and why I might be able to forgive them eventually. Maybe they'll be able to forgive me. Maybe one of you will learn to forgive those you fight so vehemently against, and if so, then my purpose has been served.
Imagine you've given birth. To a baby boy, one you love deeply, completely, and unconditionally. His beginnings are murky, so much so that you feel guilty for the world you've brought him into, the circumstances he was dealt, in part by your own hand. Nothing "horrible". No neglect, no abuse, no drug use. Just general carelessness, particularly in relation to your baby's father, and the position you've put this: your cherished child, in because of your dealings. So when you have the chance, you resolve to making his world "right".
Already you are raising a couple of kids. Kids who also were dealt an "unfair" hand. No child support from daddy, a mom who works full time. You have fought for them, struggled for them.......you want the world for them and it's an everyday fight to make sure they have it. Sometimes you're not entirely positive they DO have it, but you are doing the very best you can and you will NEVER give up. Of course, the biggest factor in it all is love, and you know without a doubt that you have given them THAT. With God's Grace, you think, it will be enough.
But here is a new child, one who HAS a chance at a brand new start, a comfortable life with people who love him almost as much as you do (maybe as much). But there is one thing that is not negotiable to you, in considering your child's choices. The non-negotiable is that this child has a RIGHT to remain in contact with you, and with his siblings, all of whom love him VERY much. More than the world and all of the stars. You feel within your very soul that there is no negotiating this one point.
You meet a couple, a lovely couple.....the PERFECT couple. You like them right away. They interact not only with your baby, but with your other children as well. Before all of THIS happens, though, you ask them ONE question. The one question that is non-negotiable. The one question that if the answer is 'no', there will be no discussion.
You ask the couple if they will have an open adoption. It's something they haven't thought a lot about, and they think about it.
"Well, we don't want any drop-by visits or anything, but........yeah, we would be perfectly willing to meet you a few times a year."
The answer should have been your red flag, but it wasn't. You saw that they were open-minded and they listened as you told them WHY it was so important to you. Drop-by visits were never really what you had in mind, anyway. Something scheduled, so everyone would be comfortable. It wasn't your intent to impose yourself on their "parenting". It was your intent for your special, sweet little boy to know his equally sweet and special siblings, and YOU.
And it's important. It's important because you know that as your aunt died of cancer, many years earlier, her dying wish was to see her little boy, the one she had given up for adoption 17 years earlier. You know that being denied this final dignity by her child's APs was the final blow to her already fragile heart. That when they acted like she must be lying about dying, it was too much for an already sick person to take. You know because your cousin, the one who was adopted, always looked for ways to be with his mother, when he was old enough........even though she was dead. So much so that he was wrecklessly adventurous, to the point of dying himself at a very young age. And we shall not rely only on the ethereal. You know because this same cousin sought out your mom, and told her how MUCH he missed his mom. How guilty he always felt for even thinking about her, because in his household there WAS no adoption, he was just "theirs". How mentioning it was enough to throw AM into a rage. You want for this never, EVER to happen to your child.
Aaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh........those who forget history are condemned to repeat it. And so I was.
You agree to an adoption. You know it's going to be a fight, because the circumstances are......strange, to say the least. You find that there is another non-negotiable. That if there is a fight, and a chance that the child will end up where you don't want him to be, and that you will have NO say in it, then you also can't proceed. That your son must be given back to you, because you DO love him. In fact there is never a moment you don't want to parent your son. But you are scared, and struggling, and very young.
Promises are made.
Very soon, promises are broken.
It starts with the promise of protection in the fight. Many horrible things are said about you. You find ways to disprove them. The couple finally realizes they aren't true. Nonetheless.....
They realize this is their "chance".......to break THEIR promises. Soon you have lost all contact with the couple. Not only the couple, most IMPORTANTLY, your baby.
You realize you've made a VERY big mistake, within days of relinquishing your child. You try to reverse that mistake. You try to bring your baby back home. This is further incentive for the couple to break every promise they've made to you. There is no negotiation, no discussion. You wonder if this is the break they were looking for, all along.
Within days you ALSO realize that the relinquishment you've signed is not a valid one. That your rights are still in tact.
You fight. While you're fighting you discover just how STRONG you really are. That you're perfectly capable of raising three children, even unassisted. That despite your child's lack of physical presence in your life, he is the most precious thing in the world to you. And that the bond between mother and child can never be broken. EVER.
As time goes on, many months, you fight and you wonder how this will affect your child. You wonder if bringing him home is the "right" thing to do.......after all, he's been with them for a LONG time now, even if it has been by underhanded measures.
You don't know how to feel. You love your child sooooooooo much, and as always you JUST want the best for him. You wonder if you are selfish to continue to fight. If now that he's bonded to this couple (even if the means were dishonorable), it is right to pull him away from the only home he's known for a while.......several months now.......a year now?
Somewhere in your heart you wonder if the couple will ever come around and do what's right. If they will ever keep the promises they made. You doubt it. It's been a year and you can no longer expect even a picture.
In the meantime, the wheels of justice are sloooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwww...........so slow. With frustration you think that children MUST be a higher priority than the courts seem to design. But there are a lot of cases........only so many judges.
One judge has already put in his 2c. His 2c is that, though you are a fit, capable, loving, nurturing mother........the couple has the "best character", and they are more able than you to juggle their schedule to care for the child (imagine that, me+three kids vs. them+one child=them having more time)........imagine. Even WITH your parental rights remaining in tact he has decided this. You have done, and continue to do, everything you can to make the MOST amount of time for your children you possibly can. You work odd hours so you can be there the MAJORITY of the time, and for the most important moments of your day. But it's not enough. Because they're "better" than you, and can "offer more".
With the judge's ruling...........even the pictures dwindle........down to nothing. It is as if they have been given the green light to obliterate you from his life. The life of your precious child, who you love. You have gone through moments of wondering........"Will I even MEAN anything to him? They are his world now. Will he remember me? Will he be happy I fought? Will he be sad that I fought?" But you think about years down the road, and YES, you are sure he will be happy you fought. You are sure he has a RIGHT to know his siblings, and that he has a RIGHT to know you, and at the very least, how much you cared.
For you it seems to have all come down to "ownership". In their eyes they "own" your child. All of the understanding they seemed to display at the beginning doesn't need to exist, in their mind, because he is "theirs" now. They have never given birth, never had a child of their own. A friend of theirs (once a friend of yours, too), tells them the womb means nothing. She knows because she has carried children. So because it meant nothing to her, they believe it doesn't really mean that much to anyone, to any mother who has carried a child. They now believe that biology, and children, are transferrable. You wonder if they will send THEIR history with your child to school on history day (but you're hoping that day never comes to fruition, with THEM anyway).
Your fight makes them all the more angry. The communication.......there is no communication. Every day you visit your mailbox. You cross your fingers, you knock on wood, you pray to the Gods above, PRAYING for a picture of your little one.......enough to know that he is okay, that he is well taken care of. Nothing. Will they send pictures of his first birthday.......a year late????!!!! No. They will not. They will not send you anything. They will not let you know how he is. His second birthday will pass, within days, and it too will go by with no picture, no update.
No doubt they are wondering why you haven't "gotten over it" already. How can you? How does a mother ever forget her child? Impossible. Every breath, every step you take is designed just the way you design them for your other two......to make sure HE is okay, that he is happy, that he is well.
I'm sure some will find a bone of contention with this. Whatever it is. Maybe you will think I am selfish. Maybe you will think I am "mentally unstable" or "unfit" to parent my child. I am not, and the courts have said as much. In fact, they found me to be a very GOOD mother to my children. I have a good job (though I've worked my way INTO the decent salary I make over the last two or three years), I am healthy, mentally and physically. My kids and I have a nice life, we go places, we are involved in a lot of activities. Everything is in place..........except one. One thing is totally out of place.
So I fight. And they fight. And I wish with all of my soul that we could communicate, and make this EASIER for him. I would do anything, I don't care what it takes. I feel deeply within that there WILL be a transitional period. He will come home. I'm terrified for him. I want him to be well, in every way, shape, and form. I will do whatever it takes. To that I am committed. I will put anything aside that I feel for "them" to make this work for him.
Would you fight? If you had a chance, and you KNEW in your heart that the right thing for your child was to know his family, to be with them, would you fight? You know you made many mistakes. You hope you won't make any more. But you want to correct the biggest mistake you feel you have made.
Now you know how THIS shoe feels.

~Happy Birthday to My Precious Boy~

[daddysangel]

YES that is what the shoe feels like.The fight we are in I wish was with you.We have attempted through the BF attorney to allow anything he wanted as far as visiting and so forth with the only answer being NO.Still to this day from the day she was born to now (8yrs later) no attempts to contact her or write or send her a birthday card and the answer remains NO.Our angel made the statement once " I hate him" We explained to her that she does not know him and has never walked a mile in his shoes and you should never say that about anyone until you have done both.Her response was"well I don't hate him ,but I do hate what he is doing".Why would she feel that way? Because she does not know why he is doing what he is doing.Why do we feel that way? Because we do not know why he is doing what he is doing and goes out of his way to make sure we do not know why he is doing it.A simple call-a simple sentence from his attorney stating lets get together and discuss what is in her best interest.That is all it would take.But all we get is "NO". I fight every day. I fight to get up at 3am to go to work and I fight to stay awake on the ride home at 6pm.I fight to fund a little girls dream of staying where she wants to stay.I fight to make her feel safe and secure.I fight to keep her happy when mom breaks down.I fight to understand.I fight to see GODS will in this.I fight to keep faith.I fight a court system that does not understand that this is not just anyone,but that this is my daughter.I fight for the best interest for her.I fight for her right to be heard.I fight for fairness NOT for his rights or our rights.I fight out of love.I fight for her right to argue with her sister and to do her chores and to dance play baseball and be in the girl scouts,to hold her when she is scared and laugh with her when she is silly.I fight for her school and her friends and her dreams and goals.When it is finally over I hope that I have fought for her right to someday meet her BF with understanding gratitude,open arms and love.Yes we are fighting to adopt her and the shoe feels the same way on me.

[Mared2chuck]

I am so sorry for you both. There are no words to make either of you feel better I am sure. I pray for you and your children.

[StacyKelly2]

I read your post, and my heart goes out to you completely. I am in a contested adoption...the heartache is so painful. I am sorry the couple you chose don't understand your feelings and your pain. Our situation is totally different. I would never, or could never deny the biological parents the right to receive pictures or see the baby. Our agreement was for pictures, but I have told the birth mom I could or would never deny her of seeing her baby. There are no words to describe how much joy was brought into our lives the day this birth mom choose us!! The birth mom will always have a special place in our hearts. Seeing what this birth mom went through from pregnancy to delivery-The courageous and loving choice of life and adoption is something that I will always hold close to my heart. The birth father has wavered time and time again-saying he would sign off then saying he wanted the baby...then promising to us open adoption..and then changing his mind again. Our angel is now 15 months...and still no final adoption and God knows how long we have to hold onto hope...We offered the birth father a chance to be a part of our family..through open adoption. Our heartache is the pain that comes from months and months of broken promises. I feel it is important for peace in every decision...We never wanted an all out battle..The birth mom strongly is standing by our sides. For us, that means the world!! Had this birth dad have fought to have custody or done something than we knew it would be over, but he has done nothing...Other than say to us you have done such a good job after seeing us and this angel and promising us open adoption. We held onto his every word and still do...but then once again he changes his mind. 15 months is such a long time to have a baby and love him with all our hearts..to not know what will happen next. While I understand every parent has the right to keep thier child, what I don't understand is why after 15 months this guy has done absolutely nothing to see or get custody. Yet he still has the right to control our lives. We went to every doctor's appointment, was there everytime the birth mom needed us...That day the birth mom choose us, she was pregnant with her 8 week fetus..from that moment on, our lives changed. Words cannot even begin to express how much this baby meant to us. Years of wanting and waiting and praying finally we were blessed. WE thank God everyday that our paths had crossed. We strongly feel God placed this angel with us for a reason. My heart goes out to you - Denying you of seeing your baby is just cruel. For us, we would work out anything to just be a part of this angel's life. Its all about this angel. We only want this all to work. Being he has been with us for so long the attachment is just unbelievable. WE could not imagine a day with out him!! The thought of losing him is just unthinkable. He is our whole world!! I am sorry that your adoptive family don't understand or seem to care about your feelings. We on the other hand respect and always will the biological parents, if not for you we would not have a chance to be called "mommy and daddy"- I hope you find peace - I hope the adoptive parents come to realize you have feelings and the promises they made should have never been broken. May God Bless

[SpyGirl3000]

Thank you so much for your responses. StceyKelly and daddysangel I am so glad you are willing to fight for what is right for your child. So many adoptive parents *won't*. Even after our long discussions and a 5 page letter I wrote to them at the beginning about why open adoption is the right thing for him, they have done a complete about-face.

This that you said, Stacey:

Denying you of seeing your baby is just cruel.

is exactly what I told them (once), but apparently *I* am the cruel one for telling them how cruel they are. It has gotten to the point that they won't even allow me to mail packages for my son to their address, I have to mail them to their attorney (and God knows what he does with them, does he throw them out? Does he at least donate them?).
Their reasoning? They want my son to have a "normal" childhood, in their very own words. I see nothing normal about this at all.
Thank you for your warm words, I pray for all of our children.

[mom2samuel]

We have had two failed adoptions, one rather bitter, and the other one sad, but hopeful (we know the mother will do a good job raising her beautiful daughter). I'm always trying to "see" the other side, though sometimes my broken heart gets in the way. What I wanted to say is you do have the right to see your son. If he is told he is adopted, he will have questions. We have a son from Guatemala, and we began telling him the story of his birth as soon as we felt he could understand. He loves to hear the story, but the one thing that breaks our hearts is that he wants to see and meet his birthparents. He wants them to come to his 5th birthday that is coming up. It is so sad!! We have told him that one day we will take him to Guatemala, but that does not make up for wondering about his mother and father. I wonder if she thinks about him, and wish I could locate her to send pictures.


People really do need to think about what is best for the child. The relationships that are involved in open adoption are the best, but also scariest, part of the process. It's a hard thing to come to grips with. Thanks for your story. Good luck

mom2samuel

[mom2GRLC]

this is what I don't understand.

If you signed your rights away ...yet changed your mind within the amount of time given why would they not immediately give your child back? Every adoptive parent knows there are risks in accepting a baby. That there is a time frame where the birthparent might change their mind.

Why if the change of mind happend in the right time frame....would you not get your child back? Regardless of your ability to care for the child....that child is still yours just as any other woman who bears a child....they aren't asked to prove they have a job or stable home to go home to before leaving the hospital.

Why would the judge determine that (even though you are the legal mother) the child should stay with the adoptive family? I don't get it?

[StacyKelly2]

In time the adoptive parents will have to realize nothing will ever change the fact that you are his biological mom. You were the one who gave birth and life to him!! I guess every adoptive situation is different. To be very honest with you...even for myself the thought of allowing open adoption was scary.. but in my heart I knew it might be best. It is scary because I was afraid of the thoughts they would want him back. Once I really got to know this birth mom I fully trusted her and that is what made the difference!! From the very start we respected one another. At the time we had no idea what to expect and we would always communicate over the phone. I expressed to the birth mom how I had always longed to adopt. How I wanted children more then anything in the world. And we expressed our feelings and opinions and wishes to one another. We were always straight forward and honest with one another. I will be completely honest and open with our angel -He will know from the very beginning his biological parents love him very, very much. I will never ever hide the fact of adoption. For us all we want is for this adoption to be final and have peace. We pray everyday that somehow someway the biological father will understand - Honestly we have been put through so much...but we would do it all again -Seeing the smile on this angel's face everyday is just enough to keep us going. I think the adoptive parents are just scared your little boy will ask questions or you will want him back. They need to realize they can only hide the fact for so long. I have read post where adoptive families promise to keep in contact and then after the adoption is final they never do. For me, I just could not turn my back against the birth mom who blessed us- We still talk and continue our friendship. She knows whenever she wants to see him she can. We respect one another and we all came together for one thing the best interest of this little miracle!!

[SpyGirl3000]

Originally Posted by mom2GRLC

this is what I don't understand.

If you signed your rights away ...yet changed your mind within the amount of time given why would they not immediately give your child back? Every adoptive parent knows there are risks in accepting a baby. That there is a time frame where the birthparent might change their mind.

Why if the change of mind happend in the right time frame....would you not get your child back? Regardless of your ability to care for the child....that child is still yours just as any other woman who bears a child....they aren't asked to prove they have a job or stable home to go home to before leaving the hospital.

Why would the judge determine that (even though you are the legal mother) the child should stay with the adoptive family? I don't get it?

Unfortunately the statutes in my state don't grant for immediate custody change to the bio-parent if an adoption petition has been filed, even if the relinquishment is found invalid. Even though he judged the relinquishment invalid, and dismissed the adoption petition, he also left my son with them (indefinitely) and ordered no visitation because he was "concerned" about the odd circumstances of our case and the questions my child might ask later. The bio-dad is in prison and is also fighting for custody. The statutes here DO say that a relinquishment can't be considered as evidence that a parent didn't want the child, that the child was abandoned, or that it is not "in the child's best interest" to be with the parent. There is actually a parental presumption in favor of the bio-parent as long as the presumption isn't overcome by abuse, neglect, abandonment, etc. But the judge DID consider the relinquishment. He just worded his judgment in such a way that he thought it would go around what the statute says. Our argument is that it can't.
Unfortunately, this case is going to the Supreme Court in my state. And unfortunately our hearing date is a month and a half away still. They also usually take 6 months to issue a ruling. In the meantime my child is turning 2, and I have nothing. Absolutely nothing. Even though he left my "rights" in tact, they don't really exist. Even though the couple can't adopt him, they have custody over him and complete say in who does or doesn't get to see him, his medical care, his religious upbringing........everything.
It is devestating. I definitely made some mistakes of my own, but none that should preclude me from knowing my son, and him being able to know me.
I do have great hope, however, about the future. I really think the ruling will be in my favor and at the very LEAST I will be allowed some contact with him, if not full custody.
The couple isn't really into the internet. They also aren't really into books or literature about adoptees. They have their minds made up, and I just wish they could see what they're doing.

[gigigeorge]

see this is the thing I don't get... when our birthmom asked us to adopt her second son, we wholeheartedly agreed... and as heartbreaking as it was when she decided to parent him after we had already had him home, I KNEW that giving him back was the right thing for him... not for me or even for her, but for him... even though we were assigned guardians and could have kept him and fought it out in court, I couldn't do that to him...

Of course our situation doesn't include any abuse, drugs etc etc... simply a matter of being 20 and having 5 kids... if it was a situation where his life would've been in danger that would have been a different story...

g.

[Jensboys]

I think its a bit more complicated than presented initially ...

Baby still in the middle of a surrogacy battle
Free-for-all: The boy's father, biological mother and a couple hoping to adopt are seeking rights
By Elizabeth Neff
The Salt Lake Tribune


Baby Anthony
This month a little boy known as Anthony, born in Utah through a surrogacy agreement, reached his first birthday.
Yet who will ultimately raise him - a biological parent, a relative, or a Salt Lake City couple hoping to adopt - may still be in question.
Third District Judge Bruce Lubeck ruled late last month that he can't terminate the parental rights of either of Anthony's biological parents, which would have allowed the couple who has raised him since he was 3 months old to adopt him. Yet the judge has said the boy will continue to live with the couple.
Neither biological parent received visitation rights.
"He's essentially a foster child," said Utahn Rachel Sullivan, who conceived Anthony as part of a surrogacy deal with a Nevada man.
The adoptive couple's attorney could not be reached for comment. Sullivan's attorney, David Wilde, said an appeal of Lubeck's ruling is planned.
"I think it is very strange," he said of the ruling. "The problem for everybody, and I sympathize
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with Judge Lubeck, is there is no case law in Utah that deals with this."
In a 34-page ruling, Lubeck said he could find nothing in the law to allow a termination of rights or an adoption in Anthony's case. That left him to consider the child's best interests. Lubeck found the strongest mutual bonds between the boy and the couple caring for him, which is one factor state judges examine.


The unusual case began when Arthuro Nuosci, a Canadian citizen living in Las Vegas, paid Sullivan $23,000 to carry his child. The two had met on a Web site where Nuosci, a gay man living with his partner, had called himself Landon Brandolucci.
Just before Sullivan would have surrendered her rights to the baby in a Nevada hearing, Brandolucci was arrested for making a false application for a U.S. passport. Jailed since then, he has said he intended to return to Canada with his son to visit family there.
Federal prosecutors allege "Brandolucci" is one of many aliases Nuosci, convicted of fraud in Canada in the 1990s, has used while in the United States illegally. He has pleaded not guilty to a 20-count federal indictment that includes fraud and identity theft charges.
Sullivan brought Anthony back to Utah and cared for him for a month before placing the boy with the couple who wanted to adopt.
She later changed her mind, leaving her in a custody fight with Nuosci and his relatives and the adoptive couple. Saying he desperately wants to raise his son, Nuosci has asked a sister, Dolores Rizzi, to care for the boy until he is free.
The case grew more complicated earlier this year, when Lubeck ruled the surrogacy agreement signed between Nuosci and Sullivan was illegal under both Nevada and Utah law. The judge has also found relinquishment papers Sullivan had signed for Anthony were not legally executed.
Rizzi has also alleged Sullivan, a single mother of two, threatened to sell the boy to the highest bidder. Sullivan denies the claim, and Lubeck did not rule on the issue.
"The court is simply not able to determine if she did this entire surrogacy because of a true desire to help another or if she did it for money," Lubeck wrote. "There are accusations of extortion, and at the very end of this birth she was involved with another single person negotiating surrogacy. . . . She may well be a good parent to her two children, but again her willingness to function as a parent as to this child is very suspect to the court."
Sullivan, 26, says she was confused but had Anthony's best interests at heart when she placed him with the couple.
"Adoption is a permanent solution to temporary problems, either financial or emotional," she said. "At the time I was just in such an emotional crisis that I wasn't thinking clearly. I do want to be a part of his life."
Lubeck's ruling rebuked Nuosci for sending the couple a note asking them to tell his son hello - along with clippings of news articles about missing children.
"It was a threat, of the most vile and mean-spirited kind," the judge wrote. "His exact intent need not be discerned or discussed . . . but the letter to the [couple] shows he is not entitled to be grouped with the class of people known as parents who care about their children more than they care about themselves."
Attorney David Dolowitz, who represents Nuosci in the case, called the ruling a deprivation of parental rights. He, too, plans an appeal.
The biological parents "are not given any visitation, so how are they connected with their child?" he asked. "The irony of it is in my view, I filed on behalf of Mr. Nuosci . . . six months ago. The courts took a long time to resolve it, and that was used against him."
Psychologist Doug Goldsmith of Salt Lake City's The Children's Center, who has no connection to the case, said in general a child's attachment with a caregiver begins at birth, with differentiation between caregivers and others at around 9 months of age.
"We know that infants are able to observe interactions with mom and dad and experience stress when one is not there," he said. "On the positive side, research is beginning to show us that 1-year-olds and sometimes up to the age of 2, if they had - underline had - to be moved, are capable of being pretty resilient if they are put with another warm, nurturing caregiver - another very important if."
The choices facing the legal system are difficult ones, Goldsmith said. "The biggest problem we have in terms of moving children," he said, "is we don't have any way to predict how many moves and caregivers it would take before it causes a problem

[patti Daniels]

[My heart goes out to you. i am an adoptive mom. Your child will want to know you and when he finds you he will have alot of questions. I wonder how the aparents are going to explain their actions to him? I remember watching the news when a three year old girl was removed from her adoptive home. The adoption had never went through and the aparents continued to fight and kept her for three years. I thought to myself that it would have been better for the child to relinquish her immediately when she was a baby. The news had pictures of her taken out of the amom's arms. The only mom she ever knew. She was trying to get to her mom and get out of the car. This was terrible. I will never forget this. New laws need to be passed to protect the children. I do not have the answers, but my heart goes out to all parties. I adopted my daughter at legal risk. Everytime the phone rang I would worry that the caseworker was calling to take her away from me. Everytime the socialworker visited I worried. The socialworker made a comment that I was too attached and should not have bonded like I did. This was the six month visit and my attorney asked her to leave. The amom never did change her mind. I did raise my daughter. Now, she has her bmom in her life. No, I have not walked in your shoes, but I have walked in the shoes of the amoms. We all have difficult paths to walk. My prayers are with all of us.

QUOTE=SpyGirl3000]I've poured through every thread in this forum. My heart goes out to many of you. Sometimes I wonder if I'm getting "the whole story", sometimes I'm sure that I am Just as I'm sure you'll wonder if you're getting the "whole story" from me. Probably not, because one very important thing I've learned in the "adoption" process is that there can be many sides to every story. But at the very least you have mine. I read these forums to gain insight into how my child's PAPs are thinking, how they feel, and why I might be able to forgive them eventually. Maybe they'll be able to forgive me. Maybe one of you will learn to forgive those you fight so vehemently against, and if so, then my purpose has been served.
Imagine you've given birth. To a baby boy, one you love deeply, completely, and unconditionally. His beginnings are murky, so much so that you feel guilty for the world you've brought him into, the circumstances he was dealt, in part by your own hand. Nothing "horrible". No neglect, no abuse, no drug use. Just general carelessness, particularly in relation to your baby's father, and the position you've put this: your cherished child, in because of your dealings. So when you have the chance, you resolve to making his world "right".
Already you are raising a couple of kids. Kids who also were dealt an "unfair" hand. No child support from daddy, a mom who works full time. You have fought for them, struggled for them.......you want the world for them and it's an everyday fight to make sure they have it. Sometimes you're not entirely positive they DO have it, but you are doing the very best you can and you will NEVER give up. Of course, the biggest factor in it all is love, and you know without a doubt that you have given them THAT. With God's Grace, you think, it will be enough.
But here is a new child, one who HAS a chance at a brand new start, a comfortable life with people who love him almost as much as you do (maybe as much). But there is one thing that is not negotiable to you, in considering your child's choices. The non-negotiable is that this child has a RIGHT to remain in contact with you, and with his siblings, all of whom love him VERY much. More than the world and all of the stars. You feel within your very soul that there is no negotiating this one point.
You meet a couple, a lovely couple.....the PERFECT couple. You like them right away. They interact not only with your baby, but with your other children as well. Before all of THIS happens, though, you ask them ONE question. The one question that is non-negotiable. The one question that if the answer is 'no', there will be no discussion.
You ask the couple if they will have an open adoption. It's something they haven't thought a lot about, and they think about it.
"Well, we don't want any drop-by visits or anything, but........yeah, we would be perfectly willing to meet you a few times a year."
The answer should have been your red flag, but it wasn't. You saw that they were open-minded and they listened as you told them WHY it was so important to you. Drop-by visits were never really what you had in mind, anyway. Something scheduled, so everyone would be comfortable. It wasn't your intent to impose yourself on their "parenting". It was your intent for your special, sweet little boy to know his equally sweet and special siblings, and YOU.
And it's important. It's important because you know that as your aunt died of cancer, many years earlier, her dying wish was to see her little boy, the one she had given up for adoption 17 years earlier. You know that being denied this final dignity by her child's APs was the final blow to her already fragile heart. That when they acted like she must be lying about dying, it was too much for an already sick person to take. You know because your cousin, the one who was adopted, always looked for ways to be with his mother, when he was old enough........even though she was dead. So much so that he was wrecklessly adventurous, to the point of dying himself at a very young age. And we shall not rely only on the ethereal. You know because this same cousin sought out your mom, and told her how MUCH he missed his mom. How guilty he always felt for even thinking about her, because in his household there WAS no adoption, he was just "theirs". How mentioning it was enough to throw AM into a rage. You want for this never, EVER to happen to your child.
Aaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh........those who forget history are condemned to repeat it. And so I was.
You agree to an adoption. You know it's going to be a fight, because the circumstances are......strange, to say the least. You find that there is another non-negotiable. That if there is a fight, and a chance that the child will end up where you don't want him to be, and that you will have NO say in it, then you also can't proceed. That your son must be given back to you, because you DO love him. In fact there is never a moment you don't want to parent your son. But you are scared, and struggling, and very young.
Promises are made.
Very soon, promises are broken.
It starts with the promise of protection in the fight. Many horrible things are said about you. You find ways to disprove them. The couple finally realizes they aren't true. Nonetheless.....
They realize this is their "chance".......to break THEIR promises. Soon you have lost all contact with the couple. Not only the couple, most IMPORTANTLY, your baby.
You realize you've made a VERY big mistake, within days of relinquishing your child. You try to reverse that mistake. You try to bring your baby back home. This is further incentive for the couple to break every promise they've made to you. There is no negotiation, no discussion. You wonder if this is the break they were looking for, all along.
Within days you ALSO realize that the relinquishment you've signed is not a valid one. That your rights are still in tact.
You fight. While you're fighting you discover just how STRONG you really are. That you're perfectly capable of raising three children, even unassisted. That despite your child's lack of physical presence in your life, he is the most precious thing in the world to you. And that the bond between mother and child can never be broken. EVER.
As time goes on, many months, you fight and you wonder how this will affect your child. You wonder if bringing him home is the "right" thing to do.......after all, he's been with them for a LONG time now, even if it has been by underhanded measures.
You don't know how to feel. You love your child sooooooooo much, and as always you JUST want the best for him. You wonder if you are selfish to continue to fight. If now that he's bonded to this couple (even if the means were dishonorable), it is right to pull him away from the only home he's known for a while.......several months now.......a year now?
Somewhere in your heart you wonder if the couple will ever come around and do what's right. If they will ever keep the promises they made. You doubt it. It's been a year and you can no longer expect even a picture.
In the meantime, the wheels of justice are sloooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwww...........so slow. With frustration you think that children MUST be a higher priority than the courts seem to design. But there are a lot of cases........only so many judges.
One judge has already put in his 2c. His 2c is that, though you are a fit, capable, loving, nurturing mother........the couple has the "best character", and they are more able than you to juggle their schedule to care for the child (imagine that, me+three kids vs. them+one child=them having more time)........imagine. Even WITH your parental rights remaining in tact he has decided this. You have done, and continue to do, everything you can to make the MOST amount of time for your children you possibly can. You work odd hours so you can be there the MAJORITY of the time, and for the most important moments of your day. But it's not enough. Because they're "better" than you, and can "offer more".
With the judge's ruling...........even the pictures dwindle........down to nothing. It is as if they have been given the green light to obliterate you from his life. The life of your precious child, who you love. You have gone through moments of wondering........"Will I even MEAN anything to him? They are his world now. Will he remember me? Will he be happy I fought? Will he be sad that I fought?" But you think about years down the road, and YES, you are sure he will be happy you fought. You are sure he has a RIGHT to know his siblings, and that he has a RIGHT to know you, and at the very least, how much you cared.
For you it seems to have all come down to "ownership". In their eyes they "own" your child. All of the understanding they seemed to display at the beginning doesn't need to exist, in their mind, because he is "theirs" now. They have never given birth, never had a child of their own. A friend of theirs (once a friend of yours, too), tells them the womb means nothing. She knows because she has carried children. So because it meant nothing to her, they believe it doesn't really mean that much to anyone, to any mother who has carried a child. They now believe that biology, and children, are transferrable. You wonder if they will send THEIR history with your child to school on history day (but you're hoping that day never comes to fruition, with THEM anyway).
Your fight makes them all the more angry. The communication.......there is no communication. Every day you visit your mailbox. You cross your fingers, you knock on wood, you pray to the Gods above, PRAYING for a picture of your little one.......enough to know that he is okay, that he is well taken care of. Nothing. Will they send pictures of his first birthday.......a year late????!!!! No. They will not. They will not send you anything. They will not let you know how he is. His second birthday will pass, within days, and it too will go by with no picture, no update.
No doubt they are wondering why you haven't "gotten over it" already. How can you? How does a mother ever forget her child? Impossible. Every breath, every step you take is designed just the way you design them for your other two......to make sure HE is okay, that he is happy, that he is well.
I'm sure some will find a bone of contention with this. Whatever it is. Maybe you will think I am selfish. Maybe you will think I am "mentally unstable" or "unfit" to parent my child. I am not, and the courts have said as much. In fact, they found me to be a very GOOD mother to my children. I have a good job (though I've worked my way INTO the decent salary I make over the last two or three years), I am healthy, mentally and physically. My kids and I have a nice life, we go places, we are involved in a lot of activities. Everything is in place..........except one. One thing is totally out of place.
So I fight. And they fight. And I wish with all of my soul that we could communicate, and make this EASIER for him. I would do anything, I don't care what it takes. I feel deeply within that there WILL be a transitional period. He will come home. I'm terrified for him. I want him to be well, in every way, shape, and form. I will do whatever it takes. To that I am committed. I will put anything aside that I feel for "them" to make this work for him.
Would you fight? If you had a chance, and you KNEW in your heart that the right thing for your child was to know his family, to be with them, would you fight? You know you made many mistakes. You hope you won't make any more. But you want to correct the biggest mistake you feel you have made.
Now you know how THIS shoe feels.

~Happy Birthday to My Precious Boy~[/quote]

[ChristieS]

One thing I think needs to be paramount here - the best interest of the child. At this juncture I would ask the question what harm may come from removing him versus any potential harm of not removing him. Truly, this needs to be about what is in the best interest of the child - NOT if the birthmom has now changed her mind - and NOT if the adoptive parents want to keep him. Once a child has been with an adoptive family, depending upon the age of the child and the child himself, what danger resides in regards to attachment issues and individual issues.

No one owns any child but God. Changing one's mind is one thing - what is in the child's best interest may be another. This is true especially in situations where the child's needs (children particularly with special needs) should be paramount.

I am sorry for everyone in this situation. It is extremely difficult to lose a child. I will say a special prayer tonight that this child will not be negatively affected by all of this fighting and that his best interest is served - whatever that may be.

[SpyGirl3000]

Interesting that you would point out the amount of money I was paid to go through a "traditional surrogacy", or a surrogacy where the "surrogate" uses her own egg (making her "surro-child" her actual biological child).
Ironic as well, is it not true that there is a $10,000 adoption credit for people who adopt a child? If you're implying that money is/was my motivation, I think the same could be said for ANYONE who adopts a child and receives a $10,000 credit. It's pretty much a moot point with me at this juncture, anyway, because I have spent it all and then some in legal fees. If I were a money-grubbing whore, I suppose I'd be out there peddling my story to make more money, but I'm not. BTW, my "fee" for the "surrogacy" was $18,000, not $23,000. Also of note, I was thoroughly investigated by the FBI (as well as every other state agency out there), and they asked me if I felt like I should pay the money back to the BF, who is currently in prison for: wire fraud, bank fraud, identity theft, etc.......a total of 28 federal counts. I said no. They agreed and called BF a "scumbag".

I didn't tell the *entire* story mostly because it's incredibly convoluted, and I also posted because I was feeling pain, not to get attention, or I would have just posted the whole **** thing.

As I mentioned in another thread, BF is in high-security federal prison in CA, and has been diagnosed with severe mental illnesses, as well he is facing charges when he is deported to Canada. Even if I *NEVER* get to see my child again, I also want to make sure he does NOT fall into the hands of his father........his father who spent time in prison in Canada after being convicted of perjury (he was on the police force-the RCMP-and claimed his partner had done drugs, etc., was later found to be lying and spent time). While he was in prison in Canada, he also claimed he was HIV+ (he is gay). Then he changed his name to Maveric A. Maverick, Landon Brandolucci, Lonnie James, Lando Brando, and more (10 aliases in total), posed as an attorney in Canada (when he got out of prison), and then came down to the states to wreak more havoc here. When he met *me*, he told me his name was Landon Brandolucci. He told me a lot of other lies, and made himself out to be a wonderful, caring person who just wanted to be a dad. After I got the call from the FBI to pick my son up in NV (after BF was arrested), I found out from his partner (who had played along with the whole "aren't we great" game before) that he was ABUSIVE, and that he was very disinterested in actually parenting OUR son during the 8 weeks he was with him. FURTHERMORE, I found out recently that he was involved in the murder of an RMCP (police in Canada) during his time on the squad there-he is NOW being investigated for that murder himself.
I would spend my LAST nickle to make sure his "dad" doesn't gain custody of him (unlikely, but he has a GREAT attorney here, and continues to fight-NONE of this was available when we went to court for the "best interest" hearing, so it was never presented to the lower court, and now that we are in the higher court, they only go off of the record of the lower court-NO new information or evidence). I would throw myself in front of a train to make sure my son was safe, and I don't qualify "safe" as being with his dad. So as much as I am fighting this battle to bring my son home, I am also fighting it to make sure he does NOT go where he doesn't belong. If I weren't fighting this legal battle, chances are GREAT that his dad would somehow maneuver his way into his life.
I was a stupid, foolish, naive 24 year old when I started this (BF is 46). Trust me, I am very much anti-traditional-surrogacy, and anti-adoption at this point. I realize there are children out there who have been neglected and abused, abandoned, but my child is not one of them. I am a GOOD mom. I take VERY good care of my older two children, and any one of my family and friends will tell you that. I work HARD, very hard to make their lives better. They are involved in dance class, soccer, swimming, as much as I can squeeze into our budget (I receive no child support from their deadbeat dad). Most of all, they are loved. Similarly, I love my son very, VERY much. I made HUGE mistakes, and I will be the first to admit it. But I don't think denying him of his mom, who LOVES him, is going to be the best thing for him in the long run. Realize also, that I have two other children. Anthony was with us for 6 weeks total. I was struggling, I *have* to work, and it was tough, before Anthony it was tough. I just wanted the best for him. But the best was ALWAYS supposed to include his brother and sister, and ME. Even his BF (as f'd up as he is) allowed me a role as his mother in Anthony's life. Regardless of the mistakes I've made, does Anthony NOT deserve to see his bro and sis? Do they not deserve to see him? They're family, we're all family. I'm sorry that I did not know that before I set out on my "surrogate journey", but I sure as hell know it now! Is it okay, then, that they told me lie after lie after lie to "get" my child, because I made a mistake before that? I love my son, my children are all precious to me. I would do ANYTHING for any one of them.

[tobeafamily]

Originally Posted by SpyGirl3000

Interesting that you would point out the amount of money I was paid to go through a "traditional surrogacy", or a surrogacy where the "surrogate" uses her own egg (making her "surro-child" her actual biological child).
Ironic as well, is it not true that there is a $10,000 adoption credit for people who adopt a child? If you're implying that money is/was my motivation, I think the same could be said for ANYONE who adopts a child and receives a $10,000 credit.

Not the same thing. The credit is to offset costs incurred associated with adopting a child - originally intended only to be from the US Foster Care system (thereby saving even more taxpayer dollars by relieving the taxpayer of paying the entire cost of raising a child to majority) - and only counts for certain fees spent AND against actual taxpayer dollars contributed. I.e. If you didn't spend $10K in qualifying fees you don't get all $10K back, and if you didn't pay a net $10K in taxes in any year, you don't get the whole $10K, though you can carry the balance forward to next tax year.

Usually surrogacy contracts include a fee plus payment of medical and legal expenses related to the surrogacy contract. The fee you received was for your time, service, and assumedly your agreement to use your egg rather than a donor egg.
Big difference.

Originally Posted by SpyGirl3000

It's pretty much a moot point with me at this juncture, anyway, because I have spent it all and then some in legal fees.

I disagree, actually. I think the fact that this was a traditional surrogacy arrangement vs. an unplanned crisis pregnancy is by no means moot.

Originally Posted by SpyGirl3000

If I were a money-grubbing whore, I suppose I'd be out there peddling my story to make more money, but I'm not. BTW, my "fee" for the "surrogacy" was $18,000, not $23,000. Also of note, I was thoroughly investigated by the FBI (as well as every other state agency out there), and they asked me if I felt like I should pay the money back to the BF, who is currently in prison for: wire fraud, bank fraud, identity theft, etc.......a total of 28 federal counts. I said no. They agreed and called BF a "scumbag".

What the FBI or anyone else thinks of the father here, as we've all found in other situations where bdad was considered 'scum' is not really relevant. He is the child's biological father. He did pay you to conceive and carry a child for him. You are a faithless surrogate, plain and simple. You have motivations for being faithless, yes. That does not change this fact. It also changes the way the courts view you and your parenting role - again, not like so many women here facing a crisis pregnancy, afraid and alone.

Originally Posted by SpyGirl3000

I didn't tell the *entire* story mostly because it's incredibly convoluted, and I also posted because I was feeling pain, not to get attention, or I would have just posted the whole **** thing.

But the part you left out was really significant - the surrogacy - making me wonder what else was left out. I no longer trust the sincerity of what you've posted because of this attempt to 'spin' and to trick us into believing the origin of your pregnancy was different from what it was.

Originally Posted by SpyGirl3000

As I mentioned in another thread, BF is in high-security federal prison in CA, and has been diagnosed with severe mental illnesses, as well he is facing charges when he is deported to Canada. Even if I *NEVER* get to see my child again, I also want to make sure he does NOT fall into the hands of his father........

Which is evidenced by your placing this child with an adoptive family - something you did to 'protect' this child, yet you seek to undo. Did you disclose at placement the entire legal situation to his aparents? I suspect not - again the tendency here to leave out really key details - leaving them to believe as we did, that this was a crisis pregnancy, bdad's scum, you can't parent so would they please?

Then I suspect when they got the whole story they A) felt lied to (which they were) and B) want to protect this child - as you sought to - from this whole entire mess that was the start of his life by shutting you both out. Maybe their lawyer counseled them to do exactly this because of all that had transpired.

Originally Posted by SpyGirl3000

I was a stupid, foolish, naive 24 year old when I started this (BF is 46). Trust me, I am very much anti-traditional-surrogacy, and anti-adoption at this point.

No doubt you were. You're also a key manipulator yourself - again, leaving out details that do indeed change the landscape and creating mistrust by doing so. It would have been far easier for me if you had been honest about that one teeny weeny very important detail about the origin of your pregnancy. I recognize and respect the pain. I resent the heck out of the manipulation.

Originally Posted by SpyGirl3000

I just wanted the best for him. But the best was ALWAYS supposed to include his brother and sister, and ME. Even his BF (as f'd up as he is) allowed me a role as his mother in Anthony's life. Regardless of the mistakes I've made, does Anthony NOT deserve to see his bro and sis? Do they not deserve to see him? They're family, we're all family. I'm sorry that I did not know that before I set out on my "surrogate journey", but I sure as hell know it now! Is it okay, then, that they told me lie after lie after lie to "get" my child, because I made a mistake before that? I love my son, my children are all precious to me. I would do ANYTHING for any one of them.

I feel sorry for all the children here - your two other children, who are witnessing and feeling all the reprucussions of this without really understanding or having a say in it - and for this placed child - who is also witnessing and feeling the reprucussions the same way. There are a bunch of adults playing tug of war here, the kids sense the tension, stress, feel the financial, emotional and physical reprucussions, yet they have no real say or control themselves. I think you said something really meaningful though when you emphasized that it was

ALWAYS supposed to include his brother and sister, and ME

Note the use of CAPS for emphasis here.

I also feel very sorry for his aparents, if indeed they were not completely informed of the legal relationship between his biological parents and the legal issues surrounding that relationship at the time they accepted placement. I have a hard time believing otherwise, as any agency or attorney worth ten cents would have told them to run from this situation because of the murky legal territory. If what I believe happened did indeed occur, it was completely unfair to place him under false pretenses. If on the other hand they were fully and completely and unpredjudiciously informed before accepting placement, well they're in the same boat as Spy and bdad - not a true victim, a player.

Mostly I feel sad for this child, who no matter what is having his biolgical parent - half of who he is - smeared all over the place. The guy may be a complete scumbag. How do you think your son will feel when he realizes that 'scumbag' is half of him? That you think half of who he is is a scumbag? That the world thinks that half of who created him is basically a 'horror'? What does that make him? Remember the words you write anywhere public - here, elsewhere, etc. - live forever.

Personally, I think Anthony deserves peace more than anything else. He is the only true and complete innocent here, the only true victim.

JMHO

Regina