[manni28]

Dpen6 wrote:

"That’s my point we can not "blame" adoptive parents and situations we no nothing about...in some cases its the evil system in many cases its the original family...point is that these parents do know what they are talking about with RAD kids..who are we that don't know be so arrogant to think we do......

how did these kids get into the system to begin with...usually because of neglect on the part of original family....."


So true Dpen6.My aunt who's a social worker told me that a lot of times they won’t tell the aparents what the background of the child is; they know that many potential parents would not take in child with these issues, so they leave out "important" facts. This, I think, is unethical and deceiving.

[leaabc123]

I just skimmed through this whole thing. There are many many issues here and no one can say what they would or wouldn't do in this situaton.

As a foster parent, we get very little info on kids they ask us to take in and sometimes what we do get is wrong.

When we took in our girls, we were not told there were siblings in another home. We were not told of issues in their previous homes although it is clear they were less than stellar and possibly abusive.

After about 4 months, they came to us and asked us if we would take their older siblings. We had to make an immediate decision without really knowing them or their specific history. We said no after much thought and I am glad we did.

As time goes on and I read moe court papers and learn more, it is clear their older siblings have more severe issues than was let on originally. They are not RAD but possibly attachment disordered with other issues as well.

[willowhawk]

I suppose I should have written a book for my first post and given the entire history of these children and maybe people would be more understanding. These four children were placed in a seperate foster home from their two older siblings (my kids). My youngest sibling of these kids, came to me at the age of 2. He was in different home, also. The foster home where the four were sent was horrific. These children suffered severe emotional and sexual abuse in this home for years before anyone even knew about it. When they were finally removed (to be adopted) it all came out. The home was shut down and the foster parents were prosecuted....but the damage was done. These kids NEVER knew what a normal parent or homelife was like. If we are going to put blame anywhere, let's start with the HIV+ cocaine addicted prostitute mother who kept having babies and telling the judge...."I've got a baby factory in my body, take them away, I'll have another." I was sitting in the court room when she made this comment! I guess she thought it was okay to keep having cocaine addicted babies! Let's also put the blame on the foster parents who severely abused these kids, and lastly for the under staffed foster care system who let them down! I feel for the adoptive mother and like others I have mixed emotions on her decision. What would I have done...I can't say, I'm not her. But, knowing myself and my strengths and my family support system, I probably would have made a different decision, but that's me. Here I sit anguishing over the situation that these children are now in. I love these kids and feel tremendously guilty that I am not stepping forward to at least take the girls (yes, I've been asked to do so) but, I, too, am a single parent. I don't feel that with my work schedule (3-11) and my responsibilities to my own children and myself, that I could upset the apple cart at this point. Am I being selfish? I suppose some people will judge me, also, but what impact would these damaged children have on my stable family. We have worked for years to get to this point, do I sacrifice that? Not to mention that I am also parenting my 3 year old grandson. I am hoping that I can be of some help to them in the future, although I'm not sure in what capacity. I do know however, that I will do whatever I can.

[manni28]

Willowhawk wrote:

"Am I being selfish? I suppose some people will judge me, also, but what impact would these damaged children have on my stable family. We have worked for years to get to this point, do I sacrifice that? "

Imagine what the adopted mother went through;she probably put-up and sacrificed a lot for these children and it still didn't help.

[Linny]

For anyone who cannot understand how this dissolution of an adoption could happen:

When your other children have been sexually or physically assaulted. When you or your other children have been physically assaulted to the point of narrowly missing death; when you have had to sleep outside the bedroom door of the perpetrator, in order to assure that no one will be knived:

When you too, have realized that the system deliberately failed to tell you that the child you adopted was in a psychiatric ward at the age of 3yrs for out of control, dangerous, violent behavior...that a suggestion from a professional dealing with this child, read 'that said child should be housed in a long term residential facility'....and YOU never saw ONE PAGE of this material...but the system had it all the time. When you realize that you ONLY got this material through an attorney AFTER the adoption was complete and the kid was THEN diagnosed with RAD:

When you've had a child for many years, and that child suddenly goes crazy. Yes, I said 'crazy'...and deliberately puts your other children in harm's way...so much so, that he's arrested...and you know that 'if you bring him back home'....you will have to live with video cameras and monitors in every hallway and room...thus, forcing your other 'innocent kids' to live in a residential setting....when you know that bringing this assaultive kid home, ALSO means that YOU can THEN be arrested for 'putting the innocent children in harm's way, and YOU were failing to protect THEM'....and---

when you HAVE adopted many other children....who have done well.......when even the CPS admits that 'both of these kids will harm themselves and others if left to their own devices'....and therefore, tells you that you can terminate the adoption.....

Then.....then....

you'll understand why this kind of heartache and hurt and dissolusionment can and DOES happen more often than you realize. And that simply stating:
Well....THEY signed up for this, THEY need to deal with it...sounds oh so good.....but in reality...it really means that whoever states it, just doesn't want to deal with the reality that some of these kids--given the BEST counseling and services...are so often, fraudulently represented or......adopted by parents who tried their best....but the kids are simply Too Damaged to live in a traditional family and a traditional home.

In some homes, successful adoptions are a nice world to imagine and talk about. Those of us who have BTDT......know reality. Not all adoptions are wonderful.......


Linny

[Linny]

"Am I being selfish? I suppose some people will judge me, also, but what impact would these damaged children have on my stable family. We have worked for years to get to this point, do I sacrifice that? " --Willow

No, Willow...you are NOT being selfish. You ARE saving the children that can be saved.....and not sacrificing them as well.

God bless you....

Sincerely,

Linny

[Linny]

Just want to add one more thing. I do not mean to sound so harsh or mean. What I do hope to do, is make others who cannot or will not understand how this kind of situation happens....simply take the time to think that 'hey....I suppose it might be the best thing to do'.

And....I want to add (because it was too late to edit the original post)...that in the incidents I wrote about, some have occurred in our home, others have happened in the homes of others that belong to a support group. Certainly, I could write about even more situations that might make one's hair stand on end.

Initially, I was one of the 'How could THEY??!?!?' people. I had read about, and stood aghast to think that anyone could walk away from their child!!! But, like marriages, most people go into the relationship feeling completely committed. The problems come about (in these cases)......when the 'real' child is discovered. It's much like marrying someone, only to discover in a few months or years, that they get a thrill in abusing you to a pulp. And when you go into counseling and therapy to help that marriage survive---and nothing changes---you finally turn around one day and say, 'Hey, if I stay in this situation...and if the kids stay in this situation, someone's gonna die!

With that knowledge, you can either take the chance that you or your innocent child is going to be killed (by the abusive spouse).....or get out of the marriage. Still, that doesn't mean that when you went into this marriage, you were any less dedicated and well-intentioned to see it through until death?

Abuse, violence and injury are what they are. It shouldn't matter that any of these are inflicted by a teenager (and even younger)......instead of an adult. The actions and results are still the same. Sometimes, there just isn't any 'middle ground' or happy ending. Sometimes, they really are young criminals just waiting to be older......

Sincerely,

Linny

[willowhawk]

Linny...All I can say is "ThankYou!"

[manni28]

The main thing to prevent this abuse from happening in the first place,is to hold bparents and/or care takers responsible. My aunt who is a social worker has told me that reunification is the goal of social services. That means the child is to be returned to the bparents AFTER they have ungone the required parental, drug AND alcohol classes on the tax payers dime! To me, this is insane! A child is not (IMO) to be used as an experiment to see if the parents have gotten it together, it’s crazy.

I applaud any parent that adopts a child from foster care or an infant that has been exposed to drugs or alcohol; they are doing what they (bparents) should have been doing. To say "well,this is what you signed-up for" when it's too much is not being fair; they are doing what a lot of people can't or wont do.

Ladies, my utmost respect.

Manni28

[blueprints]

Here's the deal....... UNLESS you live it, You can never imagine what it's like to have a child with reactive attachment disorder.... For most it's impossible to believe the mother of these very disturbed children. AND yes, once the father is out of the picture and since the anger and rage is directed mainly toward the mother, I can totally understand her decision.

[numbr1dbcksfan]

Well, IMO, her decision IS justifiable either way. If it IS only the kids and she is the victim as the post says, then she needs to make sure that she is safe if she cant care for them.
On the other hand, if she has a hand in it and they are abusive parents, then the kids are better off without them.

I, for one, was not trying to say that she should not have sought placement for the children.. I was just pointing out that it could go either way... either could be the truth tellers or it could be somewhere in the middle.

It was pointed out to me that parents who have been in "abusive child" situation are quick to believe the adults... and those of us who have been in abusive parent situations (especially when the parents are believed) are quick to believe the children. It all depends on the side of the spectrum you are coming from.

I hope no one thought that I was calling anyone right or wrong... I was simply giving another scenario. (Another option would be no attachment disorder but rather genetically (or environmentally) inherited sociopathic behavior..)

There could just be so many spins. Either way.. I agree, seeking to have the children removed at this point IS probably the best option.

[morgan263]

Originally Posted by lucyjoy

Well then add me to the list of crappy parents who deserve to be condemned. If my state would allow me to give up custody, I would. I've parented my son since he was 8 years old. I've been kicked, punched, poisened had my house set on fire, been told how he now intends to kill me and seen his writings about how he like to take a gun and shoot me. Shortly before leaving home, he told my 8 year old he would be dying soon. He currently resides in an RTC, however, that's about to change. They say he is still violent, but it's a choice, not a mental illness. Shall I bring him home?
I've been told by 8 therapists that he's likely to kill me as soon as he's given the opportunity to do so.

So, again, since you think I should finish what I signed up for, what do you suggest I do? So far, I upped my life insurance, found guardians for most of my kids and am working on self defense courses. The police already have my number red flag to respond do to violent kids.
I should mention, my son, much like Ted Bundy and the BTK killer appears very normal to the outside world.

If you have the answers, I'd love to hear them.

I just registered on this site and understand your situation because it is the same as mine. My only difference is when his brother (also adopted) finally told us he was being molested by him at night for months. This is when we realized how bad things had really gotten. This was after three psychiatric hospitilizations. If we bring our son home from his group home he will kill us and his brother. He is verbal about this and we have also found written plans and drawings. He has been adopted for two years now and we got him when he was nine, he is now almost twelve. NEVER think you know what someone else is going through or ever question thier decision on whether to keep their child. My son has Reactive Attachement Disorder as well as several other diagnoses. Our state and local DSS will not help us even though we have proof that they did not disclose this information or the information that he had sexually assaulted other children before being placed with us. Most RAD kids can be charming when it suits their purposes and not all children in a home will be RAD. Not all siblings react the same to abuse and neglect. Parenting skills from the adoptive parents is not always the factor. THis is hard for most parents who have not experienced this type of child to understand and I hope they never have to experience this but be carefull what you judge you never know what situation you may be faced with. No one ever expects adoptions to go this way.