[joskimo]

My husband and I are legal guardians of 2 nephews. We've had the boys for 7 years, since they were 6 & 7 years old. We also have a daughter, the ages are DD 9, DN#1 13, DN#2 14 -- in August, DN#2 sexually assaulted my daughter. It's been a horrible and confusing time. We had him arrested but have kept him out of kid-jail for the time being. He's been staying with my parents (not his grandparents by birth, he's my DH's sister's son). He has a probation officer, my daughter is attending counseling, he has had 2 MH evaluations, we're waiting for the results. It appears that he was a victim as well in his early childhood.

Here's the thing. With all the treatment in the world, I don't think I want him to live with us again. My parents are not a long-term option. I love these boys and would have stood by each of them through the ends of the world, but to assualt my daughter pushes my last button. I communicate with him and see him once - twice a week, but we are not a family any longer, and as far as that goes, we can't be a family with my parents either because they have to supervise him. NO Thanksgiving, no Christmas. I am thinking it might be best if we gave him up but am feeling guilty. We never adopted because the parents, life long drug addicts kept changing their minds and we didn't want to have to fight for custody. But in my heart I adopted them and gave them a lifetime committment, I"m just not sure in these circumstances I can honor that committment to DN#2.

Has anyone had an adopted child do something like this? What did you do?

[lucyjoy]

YOu need to do what you have to do for your family. There are ways to help prevent this from happening again, but is it fair for your daughter to have to live with her abuser? What about her quality of life? The judge may handle the situation for you by placing him into jail or a facility for treatment. There are facilities that will work a child down into group homes and eventually into independant living. Not the best thing for a child that age, but if he abused your child, he is at risk for abusing another. You must be in so much pain over this situation. It may be a good idea to place the other boy into counseling also. Who knows what he's already been through or how painful this situation must be for him also. Because you never adopted him, he may be eligible for services that would otherwise cost you a fortune. You may wish to look for a treatment center for youth sexual offenders where he can get the best treetment.

[Linny]

We have adopted a child who tried, on numerous occasions, to hurt and/or kill our other children. He is very mentally ill, and when he was placed here, we had no idea of his past history of this kind of behavior. I know somewhat of how you feel, because our son now lives in a residential home. He is making no progress; but they will continue to try. Everyone knows that we refuse to allow him to come back home and live here-------even if he did make progress. I love him in my own way; but he is a dangerous person to be around. The facility will help him as much as they can, and when he is of age, they will help him transition as much as possible. Not a great situation, I agree......but, sadly, the safest solution for our family. And....as Lucy asks, 'Should your daughter have to live with her abuser?'


Truly, when dealing with this type of behavior.........one must consider all the members of the family......not just the 'ill child'. Lucy is right on the mark when stating that because you did not adopt him, he may be able to have services w/o bankrupting your family.

I wish you the best. I know this is not easy.


Most sincerely,

Linny

[joskimo]

we had the court ordered psycho-sexual assessment a few weeks ago and are now waiting for the written assessment - in the meantime...nothing. Which I find disheartening. After what he did, my daughter goes to counseling weekly but he doesn't have to do anything. So we're in wait. The assessment will have the recommendations for treatment, whether it be in-patient or out-patient. We do have a residental treatment facility for sexual offenders in town so that may be the course of action. My heart is broken and every week when I go to counseling with my daughter, my heart breaks all over again. She played asleep during the assault and came woke me right afterwards, she played asleep because she was cscared of what he'd do if she "knew", and to be honest, she was probably right, I don't know what he would have done if he knew she'd come tell me. It's just agonizing.

[trippingdaisy]

I am a counselor at a child kind center where we have both types of children the abusers and the abused. Most are from foster homes also. They always break my heart when the girls come in and I see the pain they have gone through and they open up to me and then I also listen to the abusers. To me the best bet would be a long term facility for the child so theyy can get him into a theraputic setting and transition him into a independent living enviroment.The state laws here do not allow for the abuser to be in the home home with the abused. Yes you did make a commitment to the child but in return he needs to respect all members of your family. Without proper treatment for both sides the cycle can continue.I would love to try and help you with any questions you have about this and remember that some of the hardest choices you make are out of love for a child.

[joskimo]

trippingdaisy: what sort of long-term care would take him for 4 years? It seems like the ones that I"m aware of here in town try to work through there problems and then move them on out. Is this something which Medicaid would pay for?

soulwhisper: dd is 9, and a young 9, she's quite immature for her age, so I cannot beelive there was any sexual attraction. In fact he's been hostile towards her for a good 4 years now, beleiving her to be the favored one. No on intercourse, yes on penetration, digital-anul.

[trippingdaisy]

There are a few types that take for long term care . The ones you are looking for is a residential teatment program thay will transition them into either an after care program or into foster care. In the foster care home there will be no other child and the person would be trained for his behavior. And yes medicaid will pay for this. Also a treatment program that will transition him into a independent living program where he will learn and will actually have help when he turns 18.Also in most states if he has been in states care for more then a year before entering college they will pay all expenses. As for programs they range from exteme lock down asking to use the restroom to having day passes and supervised visits at the facility.By now I hope they have given you a social worker who knows how work on these cases and can do research into programs in your state. If not I would be more then happy to do look up in your state. Please let me know.

[lucyjoy]

Medicaid does not normaly pay for RTC placements, but, since he was not legally adopted, the stte should be able to provide necessary funding for this. Also, mst faciliies take the kids with the goal being to return home, but if the child can't manage the program or th staff and family cannot insure the safety of each other, strep down programs are then used. The facilities are generally set up in levels and if the staff determines returning home is not an option, then step down would be. His not having a legal family that's clean and sober in this instance, can be a benefit to him. You could be his resource"parent", but cannot be held responsible for taking him back.

Also, soulwhisper, your questions really bugged me. What difference do the details of the assault make? Are these questions a rape victim should be asked to determine if the rape was severe enough? Just because the perp was a minor, does not make the victim any less abused.

[patrisha]

joskimo,

I also raised my niece and nephews (for the same reasons) so I know how hard this must be for you. You know the boys have been failed once so you try even harder to provide a good life, but you certainly can't do it a the expense of another child. I doubt your decision would be any different even if it wasn't your child he harmed.

Has he given the counsler any explanation for his actions. He had to know your daughter would tell you. You said he was previously a victim himself, when, and what about his younger brother? Are you sure it was a long time ago or is it possible he's recently been abused? I say that in light of a terrible case now exposed where I live. Young boys (ages 11 -14) were getting molested by a teacher that had been a very respected and active community member. The story came out when one of the boys acted out on his own younger brother. It was interpreted as a cry for help without having to "tell" as he had been threatened not to do.

I am so sad for your daughter. After so long she must feel like the boys were more brothers than cousins. You have my deepest sympathy for your trials and best wishes for your daughter's recovery.

Trish

[joskimo]

thank you all for the responces, unfortunatly we don't have a direction to go in until we recieve the court ordered assessment with recommendations, then I guess that is what we are legally obligated to do.

SoulWhisper: my daughter was not play acting or curious, she was asleep when it happened. That is her story and he confirmed it. She woke up when it was happening and stayed "play asleep" because she was scared. She did not instigate something and then change the story to "please" me.

LucyJoy: We have a caseworker at DFYS, he is "monitoring" the situation to make sure we are taking appropriate actions, but he hasn't been very involved because thus far we are doing everything we are legally required to do such as removing him from the home and taking him to see his probation officer weekly. There is no treatment plan until the assessment is compiled, so we're in wait. I was going to contact him though to see what he could tell me about options and finances. I know the doc who did the pschosexual eval is $100 an hour and doesn't bill Medicaid and my insurance pays only 50% of MH apts, which will leave me with a very substantial bill if he has a long and involved treatment which I would think he would. I also want to talk to him about how residential treatment would be paid for if that's the route we go.

Patrisha: You understand what it is to take a child who has already been tossed away, I don't want to be yet another person who throws him away like garbage, who lets him down, but I"m really torn because of the severity of what he did. The initial assessment indicates he may have been sexually abused by one of his mom's boyfriends, which I found shocking. There is a family rumor that his paternal grandfather is a molester so that's who I would have thought did it to him. Granted we don't know much yet, and hopefully will know more soon, but no, I don't think the abuse was recent. And yes, these boys were my daughter's brothers, still are. She's very hurt and confused and scared. I hate to think that this will be some defining point of her childhood, you know?

[SoulWhisper]

Joskimo,

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Quote:
SoulWhisper: my daughter was not play acting or curious, she was asleep when it happened. That is her story and he confirmed it. She woke up when it was happening and stayed "play asleep" because she was scared. She did not instigate something and then change the story to "please" me.
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Well, if both kids confirm that your daughter was asleep, that is a VERY different and serious situation. I wish you had stated this fact initially, it would have saved us both a little energy.

And under the circumstances, I don't think you can let this boy back into your home to compromise your daughter's sense of safety any further.

She has been violated and her home should not be one where she fears going to sleep at night.

This boy is already a predator...

Taking him back in would be like putting your stamp of approval on his behavior and it would teach your little girl how to dishonor herself in many ways.

[sspete]

My goodness......how tragic for you and your family, and REALLY special blessings to your precious little girl!!!! This story breaks my heart as I know it must yours. I am just curious about the other little boy......How does He feel in all of this???? Has he been abused also????

You know as hard as it may be I do not think I could let him come back into my home......Your daughter would probably be TERRIFIED!!!!! I totally agree that he needs A LOT of help and You should do everything in your power to get it for him. It sounds as if you are, and my thoughts and prayers are certainly with you as you go through this. It must be horrific!!! As for finding him placement for living Is there a family friend or another relative with maybe NO other children who can "handle" him for the next few years. He needs MUCH counseling and assistance so this child does not become a Grown man continuing in his ways of sexual abuse!!!! TOO SAD!!! You and Your Family will be in my prayers!!!!! Blessings........

S Pete

[patrisha]

joskimo,

Considering the potential financial impact of his treatment you need to review the legal side of your guardianship. I was advised that financial and legal exposure were limited under guardianship designation in my state. That is why we opted for guardianship instead of adoption. You may also need to resign his guardianship to make him elgible for State assistance. Don't stress that this is abandoning him. It may be the only way he will get the real help he needs.

Depending on how well your daughter does you may need to conserve your resources for her treatment. She does sound pretty solid for her age since she came to you immediately.

Again, good luck.
Trish

[melon161]

Joskimo,

I'm sorry you are in such a difficult situation. I'm sending you hugs and praying that you find the answer you are looking for.

Stacy

[SoulWhisper]

Lucyjoy,

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Quote:

Also, soulwhisper, your questions really bugged me. What difference do the details of the assault make? Are these questions a rape victim should be asked to determine if the rape was severe enough? Just because the perp was a minor, does not make the victim any less abused.
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Lucy, It is my opinion that you have taken this way out of context. If you look at the thread starters initial post, she negated the little girls age entirely. And yet, everyone jumped on the bandwagon of labeling this boy the culprit. Thank God, this wasn't a situation, with any real power over another boys life, where both kids were wide awake!

What difference do the detials make? ALL THE DIFFERENCE.

The questions I asked were both educated and intelligent.
If the world at large simply went by what had been printed initially, you all would have had that boy hung and hog tied without further knowledge.

You all went right along with just the bare basics, taking a faceless persons word on something that involved not one but two children, who's lives are at stake!

I do have some education and knowledge when it comes to this type of issue and the varying ways people behave when confronted with such issues. I asked very realistic and pertinent questions so I could give an informed response.

I have known people who freak and make a federal case out of normal childhood sex play, and I have known people who do the exact opposite and completely deny anything happened. Lots of innocent people get hurt when sex rears it's UGLY head and it's not always the appropriate ones.

I just wanted NOT to be one of the ones who took this issue at face value, I wanted to offer some real help, not sympathy, so that TWO children might benefit somehow.

We cannot get the whole story unless we ask, and answering to less than reality is nothing more than getting high on the sound of our own voices. If you disagree fine but this is one topic I do know about.

How can we come here day after day and merely placate when REAL children's lives are at stake? Are we to be bottom powdering hypocrites? Speak only half truths? Give hugs but offer no real information or knowledge?

I just wanted to make sure we weren't answering to some hysterical woman in shock over something "normal". I found out we weren't, but should I just have taken that for granted? I don't think so. Not when TWO REAL children's lives are the issue.

I certainly did not mean to hurt anyone's feelings and my responses were very matter of fact, non emotional. I had the children in mind and what I know, nothing else. I admire the thread starter, I think she is on the ball and she had the honesty and bravery to answer my questions.

In my mind, thats quite a woman!