[HangingOn]

So, there are two ways of looking at this: he was attached to us, and just let his perversion overrule the love; or he is just acting and saying the right words?

1. Everyone says he is attached. His low IQ and "cause and affect" keep him from processing that there are consequences for his behavior. He states he just thought he could get away with it.

2. Everyone says he has not had ANY role models to show him how to feel or write such "good" feelings. He is doing this on his own, out of his heart.

These are the things we are being told. It hurts so bad to be caught in the middle of this. But, when all is said and done, we have to sacrifice the one to keep the other six safe. Life stinks!

That's quite a coincidence about the braces on the same amount of time, and getting them off early for the same reason. Spooky

I guess when the time came, your dn blew it and will now have to pay the piper. I wonder when our ds will "blow it" so everyone else will see that there really is a problem. He continues to have the model child behavior. Do we take this as a compliment on our parenting, or realize that there is a big power struggle going on here and he's winning?

[lucyjoy]

Hope you don't mind the interjection into your conversation.

Likely, your son may be able to express feelings more easily as he is farther away. He's fear of being close is not an issue as long as there is distance. He also could be just saying what he knows he should say.

It's often common for unattached kids to be model patients when institutionalized. There is no need for intamacy and the staff is paid to be nice to him. He doesn't have to form a relationship with anyone or give anything back. Unfortunately, this makes the parents look like the problem instead of the child which interfere's with his healing if the staff buys into it.

[HangingOn]

Hi, Lucy, thanks for your reply and insight. Yes, the staff bought into it big time, at first. Since knowing our family, they have come to realize that he has severe problems, even though he is their "model patient." We are in the process of moving him to a RTC which specializes in sex offenders. All the patients have the same dx so it will finally be dealt with. We felt it was too easy where he is, and surprisingly the main sw there thinks so too. In the new placement he will have church activities on Sunday and Wednesday, and he will start living skills in the school next fall.
It's such a "game" we all play, and as honest people, we have a difficult time of this. We've been learning, as we go along, not to trust anyone, and probably not even what we are seeing in ds.
My wife told ds to write his feelings to her this week; he stated that is would be easier to write them. We'll see where this goes.
Our oldest daughter (13) went for the orthodontist appointment, for her db. She told him that maybe in a year from Christmas he could come for a day visit. We'll see if he stays interested with it being a LONG ways away, and a maybe.
This is his letter (IQ 71):
HI again Well today's normal and busy. How is your day going. aI hope your day's are excelent too. I hope there let me come and spend thanksgiven and christmas with you. I love you and everybody else. Say hi to everybody for me. O did you have a nice Mothers Day yesterday I hope you did. Well see you love you and I give XOXO to you. LOVE name O one more thing I got to play the last scoccer game Saturday.
Tell me what you think.

[lucyjoy]

Do you believe his IQ is that low?

I think he has no cause and effect thinking, no empathy, and no remorse and is totally self focussed. Without confrontaional therapy that forces him to accept responsibility, he won't heal at all and will offend again. Hopefully, he'll get that at the RTC.

If he really has a 71 IQ, maybe he doesn't have enough reasoning ability to understand. I doubt his IQ is realy that low.

[HangingOn]

He hides behind that IQ and manipulates the whole world with his sweet smile. NO, I know what that child is capable of, and it's far beyond a 71 IQ. That letter was written by a child who understands everything, and is using it to his benefit. Everyone feels sorry for him, and makes him go no farther than he wants to; which isn't past the confession of the abuse.
We've seen him con the "easiest one" in the room, while we sit there and shake our head at the others letting it happen. Pointing out the manipulation makes them look at us like we are against ds. The rest are trying to cover up the fact that ds is smart enough to pick the "one" that he can con. The others are embarrassed that they have such "young" and inexperienced staff. The last one was a 22 year old Barbie Doll, who had just been hired. DS conned her into making another kid to the bathrooms because, "He does such a good job."
He has never had any confrontational therapy; the closest was when my wife was last there. The sw yelled at him, "Don't you know that people think you are a monster, and what you did was evil?" He, of course, went into a trance and said nothng, and got by with it. We have never had the chance to "get in his face," since this was discovered. Why do they caution us not to be confrontational?
Even the time when ds got off the phone crying, the staff asked him if he was crying because his mom confronted him, or because he missed his family. Well, she did not confront him, and he did say, "because I miss my family." Always the right words, now, but with the knowledge that the "staff" was maybe accusing mom of being confrontational with him. I don't understand this at all.

We were thinking, with the concern for the three little kids, that he shows now, that maybe he did have some empathy; but with what you say, maybe he only wants something. If we were to let him have a visit, he would win, wouldn't he? We can't do that anyway, the therapist says it would not be in the best interest of the three little ones.

I feel like we are on a rollercoaster ride; but it always bottoms out, eventually.

I agree, he has a lower IQ than most, but not a 71. He has it all figured out; he wants the best of both worlds. I just don't want to be a sucker; he's conned us so much in the last 11 years. I must seem like a very unstable person to those who read here; but it's so hard to do the right thing by all seven children, at the same time.

[lucyjoy]

I don't think you sound unstable. I had to really educate the staff at my son's RTC and they still didn't believe me, but they did go out and research and discover what I said was likely true.

You can be confrontational without getting in his face. It simply requires learning to ask the right questions in a quiet tone. They don't want him confronted because they fear he will not maintain his calm status. As for the worker letting him take kids to the bathroom? Hotline her for child endangerment. Report her to a higher up in writing.

While in the RTC, my son learned what empathy was and that other people feel it. That knowledge does not give him empathy, but allows him some ability to reason and understand other people's reations(although I often have to remind him that "when this happens, most people feel this because..)and then he can process and react accordingly.

Any visits with the other family members is done according to their best interests, not his. They are the victims and deserve the right to heal and to live without fear. YOur son has a lot of work to do before he is ready to handle these visits anyway.

Does he feel sorry about the younger kids because of where he is now or what he did to them? Do you feel he has any understanding? Does he think he should ffel bad because the SW told him people thought he was a monster or does he feel he behaved like one? Manipulators are quick to pick up on what a therapist wants to hear to get what they want.

Instead of working on how he feels, how about how does he think his victims felt at the time, are feeling now? How about how does he think his parents are feeling? He's working on the wrong issues. Until he addresses these feelings, he won't be able to move on.

[HangingOn]

I must have said that wrong; he conned the staff out of not making him take his turn cleaning the bathroom. LOL

He didn't care at all that the sw told him he comes off like a monster and evil. Just went in to a trance.

UPDATE:
Our 13 year old daughter told mom today, "Mom, ...... winked at me and smiled while shaking his head yes, during the orthodontist visit; I shook my head NO and glared at him. He isn't sorry for what he did, he's trying to fool us, but he's not fooling me!" I'm so proud of her. It must have been a God thing that she caught that. My wife is soooo mad about the attempted manipulation; but proud of our daughter that she wasn't suckered in again.

I gave the sw/gh a letter from our little daughter, stating how it felt since ds is gone. I thought this would give them something to work on, like you said, how the others feel. He has done nothing with that letter. They do not care about it now, ds is leaving in a few weeks; why try.

I really want to call and tell the head sw (who brought him to the visit and appointment) about the attempted manipulation. What do you think? He's definately working on the wrong issues.

[lucyjoy]

I would tell them. They are not likely to do anything, but they might write it in his file for the therapist at the RTC.

[joskimo]

that's something that your 13 year old sees through it, wow, what a position to be in. When does he go to the treatment center?

It looks like the assault charges aren't going to be filed against DN but the PO believes him to be guilty and he has the power to take him back to court on the assault against DD with the recommendation that he go to treatment. The PO has talked individually to my parents and my husband and I and I think we're all in consensus that the status quo isn't working. Unfortunately the shrink is out of town for the next week and I think the PO wants him invovled, so that serves to delay things, as well the shrink seems to be the most taken in my DN. We are meeting with the PO on Wednesday without DN and look at the options.

[HangingOn]

You still have the right to press charges, and you should. IMHO
These sex offenders are just biding their time until the next available victim shows up, don't let it be his brother. When there are no apparent consequences for what they have done, they continue where they were headed. You need to stand firm and get vindication for your daughter as well as help for dn. You've come a long way.
Young sex offenders are just starting out, it isn't something they grow out of. Ours proves over and over that he is still a predator. He had the nerve to "flirt" with his beautiful sister (13) Wednesday, and she let him have a piece of her mind, plus the dirty look, followed by telling on him. The next young child may be swayed by that childish smile of his; I pray God it won't happen. I know that the "young" staff girls are charmed by him.
Your nephew has had a lot of chances to start the healing process, but with a psych who is taken in by his boyish charm, he doesn't stand a chance.

[savannah2]

you should read the thread under special needs and attachment,theres a thread called residential options for sexual
offenders.The story is almost the same as yours, I thought it was you until I read further.

[joskimo]

wow, reading more stories likes ours just breaks your heart, all the people touched by this kind of pain. One comment that Dr. Art said on his post really sticks with me is that the shame that the offender feels causes him to be even more un-attached.

I actually don't know if I can press charges at this point. I signed a diversion agreement because at the time I didn't realize he had so many problems. I mean I know he assaulted my daughter but that really seems to be the tip of the ice berg with him. I do think he's going to be taken back to court and adjudicated for the crime and then he'll be sent to placement.

[HangingOn]

Right, that's what we did, we had his crime adjudicated; you really should do this for further safety. If he does this again, to someone else, and know in your mind that it's a BIG possibility, then the courts will have his history. If you don't adjudicate, and it happens again, he will go back to square one.
There are also some forums with RAD kids who have perped too. You and I are really "out" with this, but a lot of people won't discuss it. My wife won't post anywhere since it was so difficult for her, being on a forum and living it daily. I find it theraputic, and am thankful for those of you who continue to be open and compassionate.

[joskimo]

I"ll know more on Wedne3sday about the adjudication, since we are meeting without DN I can ask frankly about the diversion agreement.

AS far as being out, it's helped me a lot, there are few people in my community to speak too, some friend you can't tell because you don't want your family to be labeled, but even the people I've told, sometimes I feel like I talkk too much, like I've opened a floodgate and they don't really know what to say. It's just good to be able to talk because everything in my life seems pivoted on this one thing, I hate it but it's true. Every decision I make in some way I have to consider the assault - whether it's about DD or DN or something else, it is such major part of our family structure right now. I wish it were all behind us.

[Linny]

..."I wish it were all behind."

Our family has been there, done that. We've not gone to court.....but our son is now in RTC, and will age out there. I've written about him on other threads, and I've pm'ed several about how he is. It is very doubtful that he'll ever change; and God forbid should he ever be released into society, for, as others have said (professionals).....he's gonna hurt someone and/or himself too.

You mentioned that his life in your family has taken such a toll.....that it seems to be center to so much of what you say and do. This seems to be very, very common to all of us who have experienced this. The sad news that I have found....is that 'it' really never goes away...........it 'doesn't get left behind...and that it plays into so many things I say and do and think about life in general now. I hate what this kid has done to our family.....to our lives. I absolutely hate it.
He....on the other hand, couldn't care less; but I know our family is not alone in this type of situation.

I have found that the best thing to do, is to try to press forward as much as possible. Definately, see a therapist, if you can/will. Our therapist was the same one we used for our son (she's an attachment therapist)....before he was admitted into RTC. She agreed with us that his case was quite severe; and she understood our pain.
We have gone on to adoption two more times....infants this time (no more older child adoptions for this family, thank you). We have slowly come to some sort of 'settling'....though we continue to have to deal with this son often. It's not because I didn't want to (deal with him)....but it is hard to deal with someone who just couldn't care less about anything 'living'.

We try to focus on the children we have that want a family....that make our family what it is. This has helped....as well as hoping that 'telling our story'...will prevent just one family (at least) from walking in the same horror story we have.

I wish you well......

Sincerely,

Linny