[HangingOn]

We have told ds that he will never be coming home. We felt this jolt would loosening him up. Finally he is coming out of the self-preservation mode, and people are beginning to see the real person. As long as he thought he was coming home, he just floated along, being whatever was expected of him, and making no progress. He needs to get mad, and then realize it is his own fault that his life has changed completely.
We've been reminding him that we did not throw him away, he has thrown his family away. He's finally seeing the extent of the consequences he's facing, for having his own way.
We will never agree to him being placed near our community. He is a danger to himself and to his family; we choose to not live with the fear of him showing up. We've come a long way, and have learned to look at this differently. When we first found out, we lived with so much guilt and heartache, now we are facing the truth and going on.

[joskimo]

so how did you find out about the pastor's son? That's one of my huge fears is that DN has assaulted someone else that we don't know aobut and that some other child is living in silence. We were lucky, DD is a strong girl, she told us immediately. She didn't stop the assault out of fear but she didn't allow it to continue.....but what if there's another victim who isn't as strong?

I had an epiphany this weekend about adopting and it is something I want to do. I'm a glood mom, I love my children, all 3 of them. I"m in pain, as any mother is my situation would be, but I'm healing and there are certain aspects of this wound that will never truly heal and that's part of life, we all carry wounds. But I'm a good mom and I want to go forward with adopting. Sounds crazy, but it has taken me awhile to put it together.

[HangingOn]

I'm so glad to see that you are finally getting on with your life. Believe me, I know how this situation took over our lives and we just sat there spinning our wheels. Yes, dear friend, you will carry this the rest of your life; but you are making the right decision to move forward.
I'm excited for you. Adoption is a wonderful experience; even though it comes with a lot of unknowns, it is richly rewarding.
Just remember, because a child makes wrong choices, doesn't mean it's the mother's fault. Oh, yes, we nurture and guide our children, but in the end, they make their own decisions and have to live with them.
My wife and I always say that when the other six are grown, the only thing we want to be able to say is, we have no regrets, and we did our best. It's hard, when one has betrayed the family so deeply, but we must go on. Don't let dn run your life.

[joskimo]

the funny thing is that I was doing fine until a few weeks ago, when his behavior got worse and I realized things aren't working, that's when things got bad for me again. I think it's one of those times in life you have to realize recovery isn't on a straight line.

so what is your level of involvement now that ds is in treatment?

[HangingOn]

Now that ds is in the proper placement, we can draw a deep sigh of relief. As far as our involvement, is is a minimal, just like it has been. We do not intend for him to ever come home, and are told it can't happen anyway; so we just sit back and watch.
Ds was in such a horrible state, when we picked him up; and were told that this is normal and shows where he is at in the cycle of sexual offenders. He was filthy: big toes infected from picking, and he never cut the other ones in six months; he was a mess, and didn't care. This has nothing to do with his leaving home, it's how these kids are.
We go to court in August; the judge will probably just extend it for another six months. The program is for a year to 18 months, possibly longer. We are just taking it one step at a time.
Yes, the set-backs are devastating, and then when you realize they are just playing a game, and have not changed, you learn to not take it personally, and go on with your life.
We will never be very involved with him; like I've stated before, he's an extreme case.
The rest of us are doing very nicely now. I've lost 53 pounds, my wife 19, and my daughter 5; we walk an hour each day, and enjoy life once more. If we spent our time worrying about ds, like we did the first few months, we wouldn't make it. We are going to make it.
Keep me posted.

[Linny]

I've been reading bits and pieces of this thread, on and off. Hangin' on.......you have pm'ed me and we had such similar experinces. I too, have a son who refuses to heal....will never be allowed to live at home again......has been in RTC for 4.5yrs now...and in the four years he lived in our home, destroyed so much of what we considered good and wonderful in life. It was truly a 'living hell'.....and it took it's toll on our entire household with four other children as well.
We finally reached the point of 'moving on' too. I went through such a phase thinking I was a 'bad mom'.......and why couldn't I have done something to 'save him'? I thought, my husband thought....we were SO prepared for ANY special needs! Then, to find that the state literally lied about his conditions and admissions (we now have the paperwork...as I've probably written here before).
But....we went on to adopt again.....privately. Wild dogs couldn't drive us again to adopt from the state once again. But, privately, infants again..........as we had in our first two adoptions. These last two babies have been more than blessings to us...to all of us.......a healing force as well to remind us that adoption CAN be wonderful.
God bless you as you 'heal'....and you are right....the healing isn't a straight path. There are still times, when I have to call him in RTC...when we have to have 'family counseling'...which everyone (including the counselor) knows is a 'lost cause'........that my stomach literally gets sick. I have learned to 'not hate him' from the damage he did to all of us. But, I've also learned to 'love in a distant way'. It's a strange feeling and one I would not wish on anyone; but, it's a coping way to deal with him.
But, overall........when I spend time with my four kiddos still at home.......I am thankful that he no longer lives in our home; that we are able to function as a family again; and that the fear of him ever leaving an institution is something we will deal with 'at that time'. We will live for today....and certainly NOT for him anymore, as we had done for four years.


Most Sincerely,

Linny

[joskimo]

well you guys are scaring the bugeezus out of me about adopting thru state!

DN had counseling and probation both yesterday, I declined to go, let the rest of the family deal with it, which is unlike me but something my counselor has recommended, sort of a backing off, still involved in his life but not the rules around it, I have a tendancy to drive everyone crazy, including myself. DH said probation was interesting, they talked about the 2 treatment center possibilities, one is local - one is out of town. Previoiusly he recommnded the one out of town because it's a better program, DN's shrink made the same recommendation. Now he's recommending the local one; I think to keep him with family. My husband wasn't too pleased about this, he wants DN to go to the better program regardless of the location. I'm wondering if a lesser program would be better for him because he'd have family supports, if that brings the balance up? I think I'd like him to stay local for that reason, if it really will balance, then again, maybe he needs a break from us but doesn't realize it. His brother, our other DN, is going to be heartbroken, it's already hard on him not living with his brother, but never being able to see him is going to hurt him a lot. Their parents really pulled a lot of crap on these boys and the only constant in their lives as been each other. He's just a pill to be around right now, not that 14 is a good age anyways, but I think he's feeling a lot of hostility.

[HangingOn]

Ds is now in his third placement; we wasted six months getting him to the "right one." The other two were nothing but vacation resorts; this one is serious about the sex offences.
The state likes to put the child in the least expensive placement, and if he is put near you, you will be required to be more involved than you appear to want to be, right now.
Dn will not get any better by family being closer, than by being far away. The healing has to come from his wanting to work hard enough to change; that is not your responsibility.
You've never said if he is remorseful for his actions, and sheds tears over losing his home. Those are some pretty clear indications about how bonded he was to your family. I will probably come across as hard nosed but, he really is mad at his biological family; and they are the ones he needs to confront and heal with; before he can heal from his abusing your daughter.
From past experience, it really isn't about sex, it's about control.
I'll go to my grave giving this advice: Don't let dn run your life.

[Linny]

...and I second the above post wholeheartedly. Well put!

Sincerely,

Linny

[joskimo]

well you've struck a nerve. His shrink says he's remorseful but he's never expressed that to us. He's expressed that he's glad we're still standing beside him, he's expressed that he wants to come home, but he's never cried to us.

I think both txt facilities cost in the same realm, the one out of town is shorter then the one in town. The PO did not like my husband questioning him on the programs, as I said the PO previously said he'd recommend the one out of town as he said it's a better program. Now he wants the local program for family support. The question is does family support balance out a lesser program. And yes, we would be willing to participate, we have so far. I think it will be easier to be involved in his life when decisions are our of my control, when I'm not having to take him to ortho and haircuts, when I can just be supportive instead of trying to balance persecuting him and supporting him. I know he'll never be a child of my home any longer, but I love him so much and my heart is so broken for him for all he's done. I know what he's done is bad, I'm not saying it's not, but if someone else can take over for punishing him, I can let that go, does that make sense?

[HangingOn]

My exact feelings about someone else "punishing" him. The seriousness of the crime is usually not equal to the so called "punishment." In a RTC, they spend time molly coddling, which is not what I consider needed. The state has guidelines on how these children are treated: allowances, social life, spiritual life, their "rights." I will sound cruel, but I want my son punished for what he did.
If ds would have been just a little older, he would have gone to jail for his crime; as it is, he's eating better than we are, has more of a social life, and is treated like a guest. Yes, I love my son, have for 11 years; but in the "real world" it's not like this.
I can understand why you want to be there for him, and your love for him; I'm even relieved that you are not bringing him back home.
I guess I'm over the guilt and demanding pressure put on us to perform for the state. Not saying you are performing, just that we all react pretty much the same when confronted with sexual abuse within our homes.
My main concern is for the six at home; I don't give much thought to the obligations to the one in RTC. He made his choice, and he will have to live with it.
Of course, he can say the right things to the right people, but I don't see any real emotion from either one of our children. They all play the game, and a lot of them win; I'm making sure that ours does not win under those circumstances. We've seen the light with ours, and it took six months to do it. I'm not saying all kids are the same, but the sex offenders are a lot alike; just be careful.
Letting someone else take over is exactly what we did. It brings peace into the family; and you can look at the situation differently; then you are able to be involved on your terms, not theirs.
Believe me, I do understand how you feel. It is the most hurtful thing that can happen to a parent. The betrayal of family, and the utter helplessness it brings, takes it toll.
Until that child is truely remorseful, he hasn't begun to heal. Ours says some of the right words, but his actions show otherwise.
Is your dn dirty, sloppy, repulsive? Ours had toenails that were infected from self destructiveness, long, and dirty. His teeth and breath were atrocious, his B.O. was offensive, his hair was matted, etc. We were told that this is where he is at in his cycle of sex offender; pretty near the bottom. This is after six months and three placements. These are things to look for. Does he hide things, steal things, lie, etc. Those are all signs that he is still the same.
We hear words, but when it comes down to it, he is still the same: lies, steals, self destructive, filthy, and just rolling along like nothing is wrong. If you had the toes he has, you or I would be crying with pain; he just says ,"they don't hurt much." Pain is another thing to watch out for.
Our ds never really bonded to us; he never bonded to anyone in his life. Look up RAD on the internet. Attachment Disorder is very serious; especially for adopted kids who were in several placements, who just float through life.
His wanting to come home, only tells me that he's saying what he thinks people want to hear. If he were crying and sobbing, with apologies and pleadings, then I might think he had real feelings he was dealing with. But when a child refuses to change, while saying the right words, you have to be careful. Our ds is doing the same thing.
I love ds; I just have a greater obligation to my other six at home. The thing that is wrong with yours and my son is far deeper than just being bad kids. They both have issues that are far worse than making a wrong choice. I don't know about you, but I can not help my ds; that's why we have given him over to be helped. We have stepped back, and let go.
We, as grown ups, have control issues too; we think we can make a difference, and sometimes we can; but mostly we get in the way by giving the impression that we will "always be there for them."
We are here. The only difference is, ds must want to change, work to change, show others he is changing, and then change. We are still here.

[joskimo]

our next week will tell a lot, Monday DN goes to court, Wedensday we have our treatment team meeting. The PO has said he's going to look at the shrink for a placement recommendation and yesterday the recommendation was for the center out of town. So I'm sure this will be one of the main topics at the treatment team meeting. Right now we've got the okay that he can stay w/ my folks until he goes away, the option there was to send him to an emergency placement center for the interim. I think this is a good choice so long as his behavior stays up. He is in a day treatment program all day so he's not laying around my parent's place watchin soaps and eating bonbons

I understand the obligation to the children at home, I am slightly torn on that issue because of DN#2, it kills him to be away from his brother, they are bonded together. I don't know if DN#1 has RAD, I have read a lot on it, and I never would have thought he did. I can tell you that for several years he's had a lot of agression towards DD. I had a cousin (female) grow up w/ me who was 4 years older and same thing, she was immensly jealous of me. I know that's where his anger towards her comes from, she represents eerything he's lost in this world, it's not her fault, it all comes back to his mother (who by the way got married yesterday but never bothered to call the boys to tell them she couldn't send them to the wedding). I have an obligation to keep my daughter safe, but I don't know what my obligation to DN#2 is, he loves his brother bad.

DN#1 is not self mutilating as you describe, his hygene isn't what one would desire but I think my parents are limiting showers because they are on a rain water system and it's been dry. The only tears I've seen out of him in the last 10 months are when something effects him adversely, not over the assault, not over not being at home, just things that revolve around him.

[HangingOn]

Like I've said before, ours is an extreme case. Just lately, the repercussions of ds being gone have been noticed in our oldest (16, brother). He's becoming more rebellious, and pushing us to the limits. This is a nice young man, who has gone through puberty with some issues; but this is directly related to the fact that one brother will never be coming home.
We're at our wits end, but will not give in; the oldest will have to deal with this the same as the rest of us. All this to say that there could be more things come up down the road. Just because ds is never coming home does not mean we have made it. This will affect us for the rest of our lives. I'm extremely sad that we can not have our lives back; then again, it wasn't even what I thought it was, with all the abuse going on behind our backs; what kind of a life was it anyway?
Everything you are feeling is normal for our situations. The stress is so debilitating; I search for things that are somewhat normal, and rejoice over them, because they can't be counted on.
I sometimes think you are talking to the wrong person (me); because I have no desire for my ds to come home, ever. Once you reach a point of pain, where you can take no more, you just give up and go on; I'm there.
My son is repulsive to me; and somehow that keeps me in self-preservation mode. I won't let myself be sucked into the "what if" mode again. I'm here, and if by a miracle he changes, it'll work out; yet I'm not hopeful anymore.
Truely, I just wish it was over. I wish it had never happened. I wish for happiness once again. I wish I was stronger.
Then again, I am very blessed to have such a wonderful wife and family. We all will make it, we're just tired.

[joskimo]

Herein lies the problem with me - I toggle. I can't make up my mind how I feel about DN. Soemtimes I love him and my heart is broken for him and I just want to hug all his hurt away; other times I just want to persecute him, punish him for the pain he's caused my daughter, his brother, us, my parents. This indecision on my feelings has really contributed to screwing up people around me. I'm half sure that it has led to the disruption of his placement with my parents.

I didn't realize you had another son so old, I'm sorry you are having issues with him and I totally understand, DN#2 is a pill. He's 14 and just a pain right now, I know he's just hurting. He never looks so happy as he does when he's hanging out with his brother, and they've been doing a lot of that lately, which is good but that will be ending soon so hopefullly they're stocking up on that brother time.

I know things are going to be some better when he's in treatment, it's just going to be a dificult transition I think.

[joskimo]

well we had court yesterday, a trial is set for 7/14, but I think this is just a placeholder date, I don't think we're really having a trial. He meets with his attorney tomorrow to discuss options. I told him he could meet with his lawyer without me present; that I was his parent but I was also DD's parent so I had to balance between the obligations. I don't really know what options he has, so I am curious.

I also had a good talk with him last night about life after the treatment program. I explained that in 3 years he was going to be an adult but that I didn't think DD would be ready for him to be at home within that 3 years. I wanted to know if he wanted to continue living with my parents or if he wanted to live somewhere else. He does not want to keep livig with my folks - which is a big relief since they don't want him to stay. We talked about options, his mom is inappropriate and he understands that; we can't locate his dad. He has aunts and uncles in another state, he doesn't know them well and he wants to stay here in our town, so we talked about foster parenting and he seems okay with that.

So I accomplished 2 big tasks that I'd been dreading; telling him he's not coming home and introducing foster parenting to him. It went well, I could see in his eyes how abandoned he felt. as we talked about where he could live, there just aren't a lot of options.