[thanksgivingmom]

Originally Posted by crick

That last article makes me sick personally. I mean seriously?? "I'm the better person, have all these material items and I should win" "Mom shouldn't get to decide"?????

UGH!

Yeah, how dare the MOM get to make any sort of decision about her OWN CHILD.

I'm sorry, this article makes me literally nauseous.....

[crick]

You know what I find "interesting"?

When you go to a person who has a new litter of pups, we wouldn't question their ability, right and decision to allow the pup to be "adopted" by whomever. And often there are many people who want that same pup. That woman in the article wouldn't likely say "Well why does she get to decide who the pup goes to anyway?"

kwim?

disclaimer for those who don't know me well...I am in NO WAY comparing adoption of a child to that of an animal.

[Dickons]

Crick,

Very good analogy of that woman...really gives adoptive parents a bad view doesn't it? Hopefully whichever agency she goes through refuses her application...can you imagine?

Kind regards,
Dickons

[kakuehl]

Sadly, it does seem to be the culmination of a culture that says (or seems to) your worth is based on what you have and who you are. In this case, that a disinterested party should decide who gets the baby because they would choose me! (Not the birth mother who obviously has no judgment... Right!)

I know that I was blessed by having parents who, though disappointed in my choices (both getting pregnant and placing), did give me emotional and physical support. I can't imagine asking pap's to pay for anything (I actually paid for the extra day D stayed in the hospital after I left - I paid it, not my parents.) I have never asked D's parents what they had to pay in fees; someday I should. I find the fees etc. that paps sometimes pay today to be obscene.

[browneyes0707]

That article was worse than the last! Seriously where do you find these?

All kidding aside, thank goodness the responder had enough sense to put her in her place. We wonder where stereotypes are perpetuated, between Lifetime movies and articles like the ones I just read, there is no wonder. Had I not been educated in adoption, I would have read that thinking all PAP's are selfish, judgemental people bidding on a human being the way one would bid on a house, and all e-moms are scammers looking for free stuff at the expense of others heartstrings. Disgusting. Thank goodness I know better. I wish others did.

[lawbella1]

I know I am probably not going to score a ton of points on this post but I have a question.

As an PAP I wonder if emoms that are asking for expenses such as rent that is more than my mortgage or money for food when they receive food stamps report this as income to the state that is giving them medicaid, food stamps, or other assistance? While I can see a need for certain expenses and considered housing for an emom who was in a homeless I do not understand the need for $20K in expenses to set someone up in a new apartment, buy new furniture, etc...

Please do not read this as an attack on emoms as I do not think emoms think this is a way to make money (although I have heard of some that say that but I don't generalize). I also understand that PAP's could refuse to pay expenses and wait. I do think that agencies and attorneys who say "ohhh we can get everything paid for including...." should reconsider why they are in this field of work. As an attorney myself, I can see billing for hours spent but when you provide zero services then you should be paid accordingly.

Oh well, just my two cents. I hope I haven't offended anyone.

[RavenSong]

Lawbella, if you know of an emom who's asking for 20k in living expenses, I would run the other way and never look back. That is the most outrageous thing I've heard about in a long time. It sounds more like baby selling to me...

As far as reporting it as income, YES, she is required by state law to report ALL forms of income when applying or reapplying for Medicaid (or Medi-Cal in California), food stamps, or any type of public assistance like TANF or utility low-income programs. If she fails to report this source of money to those programs, she can be charged with fraud and perjury. Some of the Medicaid application forms are actually legal affadavits -- all of the forms contain pretty heavy warnings at the bottom of each page about fraud and perjury.

These bmom and emom expenses have to stop, IMHO. I understand that they might be necessary in some cases, i.e., an expectant mother who is ordered onto bedrest by her OB/GYN. But I think most of the cases I've read about late are ludicrous.

[WizardofOz]

RavenSong, I really appreciate what you wrote - especially since you had personal experience.

In this economy, I can definitely imagine some folks getting creative and contacting adoption agencies with no intention to place and every intention to make an extra buck A scam can not be proven per definition (now, where did the writer of the article take the 75% from?) because we cannot prove what people think, only what they do.

Like other posters, I think that in the vast majority of the cases, it is not justified to pay any expenses. What is common practice these days is abuse, nothing else. Birthmother expenses are legally defined as "charity" which is to be paid to an emom voluntarily and unconditionally but c'mon, most PAPs do not pay this charity just so, out of their free will, because they just feel like donating some money (I am laughing myself about this idea as I write this). Baby buying? Not at that stage, I would say, but enticement for sure.

What I surely see as illegal baby buying is the so-called postplacement support because this is money given to the birthmom in exchange for placing the baby. Simply stated, the transaction is: You sign the papers, I give you even more money.

I don't know why no legislator has ever addressed that, it seems to clearly illegal to me like, if that is not baby buying, then what is?!

I agree with Linny and others that ideally there should be baby-born situations only. The emom should make the decision if she wants to place once the baby is born, with no money involved before and/or after birth. Just like it is done e.g. in Europe.

[oceanica]

I've seen that 20k figure. One unethical agency has that as routine. They also dangle out things in front of paps like "our bmoms are drug free, mostly college students who just made a mistake" and "you will get a healthy cauc baby with blue eyes" and "we have moms lining up and you will match right away, as soon as you sign up with us". these so-called "college students" need 3000 per month for living and maternity expenses for the next 5 months. The lady I talked to was a real pitch woman. She used so many buzzwords and I could see that it really would tug at the heartstrings of someone who was desperate. Heck I even considered using them until my hubby talked some sense into me. I thought I'd be willing to pay if they could get things done quickly. Then I thought about all the red flags I was seeing. Their adoptions must run in the 40 to 50 thousand range with all the expenses.

I agree with everyone that money should play a minor part in adoptions because it will only cloud the important issues for both sides of the equation.

[PersianMama]

Originally Posted by MamaS

d.) Transport to and from medical appointments and all medical needs (test, prescriptions, etc.) paid that were not covered my expectant mother's medicare.

This always confuses me when I hear about unpaid expenses through medicaid. We pay $10,000 a year for our private health insurance, and it doesn't cover maternity . We paid cash for our second child's pg and delivery and qualified for our state's maternity benefits with our third. They pay 100% of EVERYTHING related to the pregnancy and birth. Where are these extra costs coming from?

I agree with the PP who said that as long as adoptive parents pay these expenses, the fraud will continue.

Our non-profit agency takes the money from adoptive parents and uses it to pay for emoms' expenses. They get them to appointments, help with bills like electricity, and help them apply for medicaid if necessary. Women who need help receive it and no one is scammed. If someone is helped by this agency, and then chooses to parent her child, then I'm glad she found help during a dark time in her life. No one adoptive family is left both heartbroken and without the money they needed to adopt.

[thanksgivingmom]

Originally Posted by PersianMama

Our non-profit agency takes the money from adoptive parents and uses it to pay for emoms' expenses. They get them to appointments, help with bills like electricity, and help them apply for medicaid if necessary. Women who need help receive it and no one is scammed. If someone is helped by this agency, and then chooses to parent her child, then I'm glad she found help during a dark time in her life. No one adoptive family is left both heartbroken and without the money they needed to adopt.

Sounds like a great agency! (Our of curiousity, would you mind sending me which agency that is in a PM? I'm becoming more curious about these things recently...)

[lahdh4]

Persain, the agency I used in Supergirl's placement works much the same way. I was ordered on bed rest but Supergirl came early and there was a glitch in my paperwork, so I wasn't getting paid. I had all ready signed TPR and called the agency and said that I would need some help with my expenses. I had the rent taken care of but I couldn't swing the phone, gas or food. I was given gift cards to the grocery store. I had to submit my phone and gas bill to the agency as proof of these bills and they paid them directly. I was never given cash.
Some of these stories, I just have to shake my head and wonder how some people can do this to others.