[DIMITZ]

Have a 15 year old teen adopted after being in our home as a foster child for 1-1/2 years. He has behavior problems both at home and at school... defiance of authority, lying, stealing, manipulation, fighting at shool (not at home). All the suggestions such as reward charts, allowance, losing age appropriate privileges, incentives just do not work as the behaviors are still the same. It is worth noting these behaviors are not just in this home but in previous placements, schools before this placement, and in his birth home. Is there a point where you have to understanding these behaviors have to have consequences even if they dont work? Just dont know what else to do since he is 15 and no matter the reward or the consequence, things just seem to be headed in the same direction. Any thoughts? Thanks!

[FosteringMama]

Is he talking to a counselor? I would suggest that if he is not.

I would also make sure that every negative action has a consequence, even if he doesn't seem bothered by the consequence.

I would not allow him any privileges until his behavior improves.

My guess is that he is reaction to the issues that he experiences when he was younger, that's why I think it would be a good idea for him to talk to someone.

[DIMITZ]

High Foster Mamma,

He is in counseling and has been since entering foster care back several years ago. I do appreciate your thoughts. These have been my thoughts, but sometimes it helps to here someone else say them. It is hard sometimes when you feel like you are only able to discipline, but I have such deep concerns considering he is 15 and what his behaviors will lead to in a few short years when he is an adult. I do agree to him experiencing what he did when he was younger. Some of these behaviors were engrained in him at a very young age and I think some of them are even kind of characteristic of his birth family. Not that it is an excuse, but perhaps a better glimpse of why things just dont seem to change. Thanks again!

[Hadley2]

Is your family in attachment therapy with him? If not, I think that's where you need to go. Just him doing talk therapy won't cut it.

[DIMITZ]

Actually the attachment study results did not recommend attachment therapy at this time, but recommended individual therapy (again) in order to work on his deep problems that are believed to be the root. So in other words, attachment therapy with him involved would be fruitless at this point. The did rcommend some local therapist to help with parenting techniques for us as parents that included reviewing the tapes from the attachment study as well as the other results etc who are familiar with attachment therapy and how to help us cope and respond to his behaviors. It is quite unfortunate but he received a very low percentage for the attachment therapy to work no the results. There seems to always be that point where it even stumps the professionals once they get to the place where they run out of suggestions. We have actually heard a lot of "we dont know what to tell you." We know he does not present with the worse behaviors and problems and we understand we are blessed that it isn't more problematic than it is. It seems to be in a hamster-wheel stage where it is going around and around over and over. My husband and I keep jumping off and attempt to try something new and different, however, he isn't at that point yet. Im wondering if it is part of his way to holding on to his past as most of these behaviors are those he grew up with and were taught by his birth mom. He is very loyal to his birth family and I wonder if he sometimes thinks it helps him stay connected. We just try to stay open-minded and willing to keep giving things a try.

[tomdozier]

The Florida Foster Parent program (not sure their official name) uses a parent training program that is based in behavior analysis (or behavior science). There are 2 aspects you should consider.

1. Work to build the relationship. This means you eliminate criticism for things your son already knows. Repeating the criticism makes things worse. It also means you reduce the use of punishment (where you decide what the punishment is based on how bad your son behaved). You need to smile, hug, listen, say nice things, compliment, and have positive interactions.

2. You need to focus on the positive and what he earns. Consider everything you may ever take away or give him, and make these earned rewards for desired behavior. Make it known in advance what he earns for doing certain things. For example, staying calm and using polite language earns him.... (you fill it in). The difference here is that it is focused on the positive vs. having a punishment for yelling and cussing. This is a big difference.

Glenn Latham (now deceased) helped set up the Florida Foster Parent training program, which is called Parenting Tools for Positive Behavior Change. But the program is not available commercially.

You have to think ahead to do this, and have some general expected behaviors (like doing school work and getting along in school). You can also have specific expected behaviors with rewards (like doing homework). They can be broad or specific, but they need to be defined in advance.

We work much harder for positive payoffs than we do to avoid getting something taken away.

Good luck. This is a very hard situation you are in.

>tom<
Tom Dozier, Parenting Coach and BCaBA

[Hadley2]

Um, well, respectfully, and all of this is just my opinion, I can't imagine any therapist worth going to who would say to NOT engage in attachment-enhancing therapy and activities at home. He's 15 and will be mobile in a few months or so--Good grief, what is there to lose?

I've never heard of any kind of study that tells you attachment therapy would be counterproductive. Stickers, reward charts, etc., yes, that stuff can be counterproductive because it sets up everyone up for manipulation rather than building a foundation for trust.

At home, this includes things like a focus on family dinners with no TV; set and structured family time like card night; set and structured parent-child work (working on the car, doing laundry, gardening, etc.); age -"inappropriate" activities like tucking him in at night with some ritual, playfully working other small-child actions into his day; time-ins, even at his age; and a lot of structure around things like personal organization and hygiene. And, yes, always let there be logical and natural consequences.

These are just suggestions from a non-professional. Again, if you have the time and ability, I think it would be worthwhile to find a therapist who is willing to do attachment therapy with him and guide you on how to extend it in your home.

The attention to filling in the holes of the things he missed as a young child may seem silly and awkward, but it does make a big difference. A fairly highly structured schedule and environment help to reinforce what should be a growing sense of security.

In a child that doesn't have a serious mental illness or developmental delay, problem behavior has two origins: lack of trust and/or the need to communicate--that is, acting out insecurity, fear, trauma, etc., trying to make you feel what he feels.

Good luck.

[tomdozier]

I totally agree with all the positive home activities. These are very important.

I also support working with a therapist, if your son is cooperative.

>tom<

[TherapeuticFamilies]

A few general thoughts and then a few specific suggestions...

Attachment therapy is about helping a child or teen learn to trust adults, learn to feel safe, work on cause and effect, better understand reciprocity, and become more respectful and compliant. A therapist that suggests this would not be a good idea doesn't understand what attachment therapy is about. Consider finding another therapist. And, people who say attachment therapy doesn't work for teenagers are wrong. It's harder, but it can work. Recently, I've worked with several teens ages 13-15, all of whom have made excellent strides towards becoming attached to their adoptive parents.

Just because a teenager's behaviors don't change within days, weeks, or even months, doesn't mean that the consequences aren't working. Due to a tough start to life, he hasn't yet developed cause and effect thinking: that's what consistent consequences does.

Specifics:
He should get a positive consequence, ranging from a smile and a hug, up to earning a privilege, for every positive choice he makes. If he makes his bed without reminding, he gets a smile and a hug. If he breaks a lamp in frustration, he does double restitution--chores that equal double the value of the lamp.

When possible, tie negative consequences to the poor choice. For example, if he pulls up the flowers, he needs to plant new flowers and take care of the yard for a week. If he doesn't come straight home from school like he's supposed to, he's showing you that he needs help being responsible, and you pick him up for a week.

Until he's compliant and respectful, he should have NO privileges. Privileges include everything that's not regular food and a place to sleep. Choosing where he sits in the car is a privilege. Chocolate milk is a privilege. Riding his bike is a privilege. After-school sports are a privilege.

One last thing, parental attitude is usually more important than the specifics of the parenting techniques. You want your attitude to be very matter of fact, encouraging, and curious about poor choices he makes. Don't work harder than he does. Step back a bit saying, either directly or indirectly, "I hope you decide to work on your life. I know you have the ability to change. But, it's up to you. I'm here and I love you whether you work or not." Surprisingly, sometimes kids work harder once we let them know that it's up to them. They often get satisfaction from doing the opposite of what we want. When we step back, often they begin to work.

Susan Ward
Older Child Adoption Support

[ladyjubilee]

Originally Posted by DIMITZ

Have a 15 year old teen adopted after being in our home as a foster child for 1-1/2 years. He has behavior problems both at home and at school... defiance of authority, lying, stealing, manipulation, fighting at shool (not at home). All the suggestions such as reward charts, allowance, losing age appropriate privileges, incentives just do not work as the behaviors are still the same. It is worth noting these behaviors are not just in this home but in previous placements, schools before this placement, and in his birth home. Is there a point where you have to understanding these behaviors have to have consequences even if they dont work? Just dont know what else to do since he is 15 and no matter the reward or the consequence, things just seem to be headed in the same direction. Any thoughts? Thanks!

My thinking on this is a bit different. First allowance and reward charts?? Seriously for a fifteen year old? My 12 year old model behavior nephew would laugh in the face of a reward chart---even he as a well adjusted kid would tell you to take your rewards and put them where the sun don't shine, though he'd use respectful words. At the same time though, attachment isn't the issue of every child that is adopted, any more than diabetes is the problem of every overweight person. Since professionals that have gotten to know your child, and not just "adopted" children, seem to think attachment isn't the core problem, but the interventions still aren't working, how about trying age appropriate non-attachment interventions. Maybe accessing interventions used for juvenile offenders, or interventions for just plain old BEH kids?

[Breezycam]

Hi There.

I have read the thread and am hoping that somebody can offer some help in my case too.

Is there anybody who has experience and/or expertise in the area of adoptee problems with teenagers? I have a friend (yes, truly) who adopted a seven year old boy, who was seven at the time, seven years ago. Throughout the seven years, on and off, he has been a problem to them. I am an adoptee and it really upsets me, because I can see both sides and they have really done as much as they possibly could for him (I know I am feeling strongly about his partly because of being an adoptee myself).
He was taken from his mother at age 3.5 and placed in several different homes before he got to my friend. So, he already had alot of baggage. Now, he has hit teenage years and all hell has broken loose.
I am sure this is a common problem, but don't know which direction to point my friend in. I know it has been devastating for her and her family and if they can be helped at all, it would be great. There has been therapy and counselling over the years, but I don't think it has been of the right sort.
I can see some of myself in some of the things she says about him, and I cannot think of a way to help.

Can anybody offer anything?

[tomdozier]

The most accurate book on child behavior (including this 14 yr old) would be The Power of Positive Parenting by Glenn Latham. If she is a Christian, then Christlike Parenting would be good as it specifically talks about out of control teenagers.

[DIMITZ]

Since making this post originally, we have found out that his therapist is headed toward the diagnosis of antisocial disorder, a diagnosis he doesnt want to take lightly and is still in the process of determining this diagnosis.

With that said, it changes approach to pretty much everything. The therapist said that reward and consequence has no effect on him at this point. The therapist said he has seen some improvement with him in the last few months but minimal and the treatment plan is approximately 1 to 3 years, but stated that he will always have issues regarding this diagnosis to include the inability to form healthy relationships, keeping jobs, etc. We were told at this point he is unable to feel joy, happiness, excitment, etc.

Attachment will end up having to be an affect of therapy that is progressively, but slowly showing progress. We were told we will begin to see small improvements in trust and behaviors, but it will be very small and very slow.

A few other possible diagnoses to include executive function deficit and emotional depressive disorder, a couple of diagnoses that are many times found in those diagnoses with antisocial disorder.

We were told it could be a dangerous diagnosis for him untreated because people with antisocial disorder have riskier behaviors such as alcoholism, drug use and abuse, as well as selling of drugs.

Although getting info on these diagnoses does make sense with what we have experienced, it is a hard bite to chew and means a long difficult road.

[lucyjoy]

I'm surprised you found a therapist willing to consider that diagnosis before he reaches 18-most won't.

Does the therapist have experience treating this disorder? The best therapist my son had had previously been a prison psychologist. My son was living in a residential facility at that time and this therapist was willing to be open and honest with my son about his disorder. He taught him how to live in society without going to prison as his conscience is non-existant and he feels no empathy.

I wouldn't say my son is attached to me but I tend to be his safe person. When his brothers get angry at him he calls and says-this is what I did, why are they mad?

Unfortunately, his relationships with women are not good and he tends to be violent with his girlfriends. I warn them, but I can't stop them from dating him.

I hope the treatment your son is getting is more successful then my sons.

[RavenSong]

Originally Posted by ladyjubilee

My thinking on this is a bit different. First allowance and reward charts?? Seriously for a fifteen year old? My 12 year old model behavior nephew would laugh in the face of a reward chart---even he as a well adjusted kid would tell you to take your rewards and put them where the sun don't shine, though he'd use respectful words.

I have to disagree with you on this one. Most juvenile detention facilities, such as reform schools and juvenile halls, use some form of behavior modification...including the progress charts. Rewards and privileges are handed out on both a daily and weekly basis according to a point system. It actually works pretty darn well in those facilities for kids with conduct disorders.

By the way, I agree with LucyJoy. I'm quite surprised that the therapist is considering an official diagnosis of antisocial disorder in a teenager under the age of 18. That's one of the criteria in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM) that therapists rely on.