[melgrant]

We adopted a 12 year old boy about 7 months ago. We have had a variety of disciplinary issues, but the one that is just driving us to the brink is deception. In his case it's not about lying to get out of trouble (that is, not "I didn't break the lamp"). Rather, it's lying to get out of doing things he's supposed to be doing, or lying/sneaking to avoid what we believe was a reasonably-imposed consequence for violating a rule, or for other reasons.

I'll give just two examples: lying to get out of doing schoolwork (i.e. telling us he has no homework when he does) and sneaking behind our backs to avoid a consequence (due to a series of mega-lies early this month we imposed a "no TV, movies or videogames until you repair the damage you did" -- we thought that was a reasonable consequence. I learned today he has been sneaking behind our backs, watching movies when we thought he was taking a shower!)

We are fairly experienced parents. We have 6 kids including two who are older than he is. We KNOW that some lying and some sneaking around is normal kid behavior. But with this child, it's different in kind and quality: with most other children, they'll knock off the aggravating behavior for at least a day or two after they've had to live through some form of discipline, but this child jumps right back into the very behavior that got him into trouble on the SAME day as he is already living out the consequence.

Anyone experienced in dreaming up consequences for a child who simply does not seem to be phased by them? We have tried both positive and negative consequences: for example, we took him to a major league baseball game two nights ago to show him that when he's in compliance with the house rules, fun things happen; and we've tried negative consequences. including (although I hate to even remember it) spanking. We are determined NOT to spank again -- it may be right for some familes but it is not right for us. But we feel hopelessly out of options.

mel

[jessc098]

How does peer pressure work in your house? What about taking TV/movies away from all? I'll bet the other kids will get him right in line....

We're a one-child family, but I recall when my mom punished my sister and I both for crimes committed by "Mr. Nobody." There was almost always a speedy resolution between us--we policed one another.

We went TV free a few months ago because of similar stuff "yeah, I made my bed..." come to find out now only is the bed unmade, but DD (age 7) had peed it too, and went to the sofa to watch cartoons soaking wet.. Since she couldn't be honest and responsible, we decided she wasn't ready for TV, and in a family meeting, banished the TV to the cob-webby garage.

The results so far have been excellent. She makes her bed every morning (For fear we'll take away the computer with a DVD player--only available on Saturday mornings if she's had good behavior all week) and the computer games.

We also get less of the "gimmies" (which I think are a direct result of commercials for junk food and toys).

[lucyjoy]

Sounds like his cause and effect thinking is impaired. This is common in kids who experience neglect in early life. I would suggest finding a therapist familiar with attachment and trauma who can help treat the problem as the behavior you're describing is only a symptom.

People who cannot be trusted need to be supervised. I would assume he needs assistance making decisions. Let him follow you around all day, help you out with chores etc. You in turn can help him find the shower without using the tv.

Let school handle school. My children have assigned homework time. I do not monitor if they actually do the homework as long as they are quiet and their books are out. School has consequences for unfinished work-like summer school and repeating grades.

Might want to look at www.radzebra.org I also like the Parenting With Love and Logic series of books by Foster Cline and Jim Faye

[heartbeat]

You might want to check out "Interesting Punishments" just a couple of posts below yours if you haven't already.

[Bassette]

Does he have low self esteem? I he self destructive? I don't know your son of course but those are my first thoughts. I would try focusing on positive reward and ignoring the ill behavior for the most part.

I agree with the idea of seeking therapy. There may be alot of damage and he could be doing these things to push you away.

[waitingpatiently]

I agree with seeking therapy!

[Mom2blessings]

I'm not a big fan of punishment, but I do like "training". Therapy has already been mentioned, so I need not go there.

Here are some of my creative training ideas...they may or may not be of any use. However, I don't thing they can hurt anyone .

How about for every deception he does, he has to work for say 30 minutes? or 15 (or 10min) if he's extremely frequent lying/deceiving (if he does this more than say3 times a day, personally I'd use 15-20 minutes per deception). Something not too hard but very tiring...and boring. Weeding the yard...mowing your lawn (or the neighbors lawn for free of course, or an elderly persons lawn or grandparents lawn...you get the picture) raking leaves and bagging them, or some sort of community service. Remind him to think about why it's wrong to deceive/lie while he's working!

Now, don't flame me here BUT I would also let him see the other kids (who were behaving) getting ice cream or something during his work detail. I would NOT do this to punish him so much as to allow him to see what behaving gets you as opposed to deceiving.

How about seeing if he can do a tour of a prison or jail? Let him see what that kind of character can result in.

How about making him write a report on why deception is wrong. Make him include definitions of lying, deceiving, etc.

If he's dishonest with other's FORCE him to own up to it! Make him tell the truth...don't spare him the embarrassment! If he was to take a piece of bubble gum from a store, I'm make him pay for it, but also tell the store manager.

I hope these ideas aren't totally useless .