[Lexie]

I love the article--thanks for posting it.

I would like to address the issue of spanking as a way of changing behavior in a child that is too young to comprehend consequences. If you were in charge of an adult that had the mental capacity of a child ( hrough illness, retardation or for whatever reason) and this person could not comprehend that cars are dangerous or a stove is hot---you could not hit him to "teach" him to be afraid. That is illegal--which is a good thing. You would have to find other ways of keeping that adult person safe. The fact is that there are other ways of teaching our children and keeping them safe. There are many adults walking around safe and well behaved productive members of our society today that were not spanked--so it is not required. It can be done. Spanking is one method but not the only method and IMHO one that has become outdated and perhaps harmful.

I could never hit my children. I discipline them when necesssary, I am not one to mistake friendship for parenting--but spanking sends all the wrong messages--IMHO.

One more thought---I have never heard ANYONE say they "beat their children". Even the most abusive parent will claim that it was a spanking that was needed. No one ever thinks they have crossed the line and are being abusive. I am NOT saying that anyone here has crossed that line---I am just noting that no one ever thinks they have.

[heartbeat]

I'm sorry to see that this whole discipline forum seems pretty dead. I postponed coming here for several days, knowing it would be painful, but also knowing it might help me work through some old stuff. I find that with forums in general, when I post to other people in hopes of helping, comforting, etc. that I'm the one who really benefits.

With regard to this spanking debate thread --

please don't spank.

I could type until my fingers were numb about why I say that. Much easier to simply say, I'm an adoptee who was spanked until around age 12, maybe a bit older. I'm now 49 and still have a strong emotional response to hearing or seeing the word, beginning with a kneejerk feeling of shame and spiraling from there unless I stop it.

Warmly, heartbeat

[NDN]

Originally Posted by heartbeat

I could type until my fingers were numb about why I say that. Much easier to simply say, I'm an adoptee who was spanked until around age 12, maybe a bit older. I'm now 49 and still have a strong emotional response to hearing or seeing the word, beginning with a kneejerk feeling of shame and spiraling from there unless I stop it.

So sorry to see that you are triggered by the subject...I'm sure that can be difficult, especially with such a hot topic. Take care of yourself.

[akcskye]

I will honestly say I am on both sides of the fence with this one.

Myself, I will never spank MY children, but that is because I know for certain that one open handed swat on a clothes covered butt would not compare to the abuse they've more than likely already gone through.

They'd probably just laugh it off, or it would make them regress...so NO spanking here.

I was spanked as a child. HOWEVER, it was only one time, and it was because I ran out into the street and almost got squashed by a car, after my mother telling me about 5 times to not go NEAR the street.

That one time WAS effective for me. It did not physically hurt me...I honestly think the spank hurt my mother worse.

BUT, what it DID do was startle me into realizing that she MEANT what she said...DON'T RUN INTO THE STREET!

I was more fortunate to have received that consequence than what I missed (being hit by a car).

I know a lot of you like to say "would you like me to spank you for turning without a signal" etc...however, the point you're missing is that YOU are not in an authorative role in my life.

Sure, if YOU hit me, it would be assault. You are a total stranger, decking me. Yeah, you're gonna get sued.

I understand what you're saying, I'm just saying the example is kind of a moot point.

Again, I will not spank my children...but there are sometimes where a parent needs to, and as long as it is not taken to the extreme, if the parent felt it needed to be done, and the desired result came of it, then what wrong is there?

Your grandparents were spanked...and some of you, depending upon age, had parents who were spanked. It was the norm "back then".

Did they turn out abusive or resentful? No (I'm sure there are some that have, but I hope you understand my point).

Great thought provoking post!

[bjhv5]

I agree with PP.I was spanked and di not turn out to hate my parents.I was a good kid because I knew if I got into REALLY big trouble what would happen I would get a swat or 2 on my bottom end!I did not want that I however would not mind being sent to my room.

I have spanked my bio's and do not spank my FC.

[qs mom]

I have spanked my son, as stated previously. Very few times and far between.

My son continues to not understand consequences nor does he have fear.

Here's an example, this just happened a few days ago.

I needed to buy a new car quickly, as mine died in the middle of the NYS Thruway. My best friend drives my son and I to a dealership. She stays in the car with him while I talk with a salesman. Said salesman thinks my son is just the funniest thing on God's earth, by the way.

I'm standing looking at a van with the salesman, he looks at me and says, DON'T LOOK! DON'T TURN AROUND! As, I turn, I hear my son yelliing "Hi Aunt Peggy!" He climbed out of the back door window, onto the roof of the car, and was hanging his head over the windshield waving at her!

The door had the child locks on, and the windoow only comes down halfway. Yet he very quietly, stealthly climbed out onto the roof. And he couldn't imagine why everyone was in an uproar.

[lilie0000]

I basically grew up with my mom spanking me whenever I did something wrong. What's good about her was she made me understand why she did that. Or maybe it was also good that I also tried to view it as more of a disciplining system than as a form of abuse.

But personally, if ever I'm going to have my own children someday, I wouldn't do it, simply because I have such high reverence for diplomacy. I don't have to hurt my kids just so I can get my message across, that is, I'm not really happy with what they're doing. Imparting wisdom and learning, I think, is not really at the end of the belt.

[numbr1dbcksfan]

Agreed.

How we justified it as kids... doesnt meant there really is justification for it. There just simply isnt.

[healingfeeling]

How we justified it as kids... doesnt meant there really is justification for it. There just simply isnt.

very true....


I was hit as a a child. When I would say I was going to call the child abuse hotline they would say "go ahead, we didn't leave any marks on you, they'll probably tell you to listen to your parents..." I was a real wise you know what to my parents...that would really get them going....i had what they called "a mouth".

when i hear the word spank, i think of one slap on the butt....i was not spanked i guess, i was hit everywhere but the head....they would pull my hair though or hold me by the throat...

all this happened to me yet they still claim they never "beat" me. As a previous poster has said no one actually thinks they are going over the line with their punishment. and as #1bucksfan said, children justify it in their own minds...i always thought everyone would get the you know what kicked out of them....as an adult i now know that wasn't true.

so to answer the question...i will NOT hit my children (when I have them). psychology would suggest that since I was hit it will be my first line of punishment when i have kids...i will do everything in my power not to cave into old cycles.

what did being hit teach me?....nothing...it taught me to hit my little sister just to see her cry. even when she was 8 months old i would slap her just so she'd cry and i would deny it.....

[heartbeat]

What I see on this forum are two distinct types of 'spanking'. There are those who have given their child one or two smacks, spur of the moment, clothes on, in hopes to really draw the child's attention to a dangerous situation, like running into the street. The child wasn't humiliated and life didn't take a time out while all attention was focused on the spanking. It was over and done with quickly and there might have even been a hug offered later by the spanker. I don't know if I would do that or not and never will know, but I can understand it and not look upon it as vile.

The kind of spanking I referred to in my earlier post was a regular, one or more times a week discipline as pretty much the first line of punishment.

There was a definite procedure to it, it was by far more than 1 or 2 smacks, it was horribly painful, and it was usually done with either a belt or a certain wooden clothes brush - wood side towards bottom. mygod it hurt. I never counted, but I'd say I got at least 20 hits, each one more painful than the last as the flesh became tenderized and bruised. Humiliation was a huge part of it, whether intended or not. Rather than simply being pulled over a lap and spanked, I had to pull my own pants down, sometimes underwear, too, and lay myself across the lap. If I put my hand back there at some point in a feeble attempt to protect myself, the spanking stopped and I was told to remove my hand. If I didn't immediately, I was told the spanking would continue on my hand, and again told to remove it. That was the lap position. Another popular position was the spanker sitting, me standing in front of them, and I was told to bend over and grab my ankles. Extremely helpless and humiliating feeling. If I was really in trouble, I was on the floor on my stomach with the spanker sitting on my back facing my feet, applying the spanking in that position. Every time I was spanked there would come a point where I just knew I couldn't bear the pain one more second - that I would literally die.

I really struggle with it. Part of me agrees with the 20 or so professionals I've asked, who say it was abuse, period. Part of me accepts it as 'spanking' and says that's just what was done then. My older brother also got them, but not nearly as often, my sister only got one.

Later in life, as adults, it was joked about in my family - "**** got a spanking every Saturday whether she needed it or not." I think it was finally in my early 40's that I asked them to stop joking about it, that it wasn't funny. They accepted that and it wasn't joked about any more.

Aside from spankings, I had a painful childhood. One time when I'd 'been bad', I was sent to bed early. I was probably 8 or 9. The rest of the family went out to get ice cream for desert. It was dusk, and I was and had always been terrified of the dark. This was well-known in the family. I wouldn't say I'm still terrified, but I can easily get to a panic point if the electricity goes out and I can't find a flashlight quickly. So they left, I watched the car leave, and when the taillights disappeared I turned on my nightstand light. I stayed in bed, just didn't want to be in the dark. My father drove around the block, saw the light, came back into the house, gave me a spanking, turned the light back out, told me to leave it off, and they left again. In remembering that, part of me screams that of course that was abuse! if nothing else it was just cruel! Another part just kind of accepts it as my due - that I was a bad person and deserved whatever I got.

Whenever I'm unsure whether something was abuse or even just morally wrong, I picture a little girl around 5 or 6 with blond curls and big dark blue eyes. I picture myself as an adult, looking at her. Then I ask myself if I could do whatever it is I'm wondering about to that little girl. Every time so far the answer has been a vehement NO!, usually with tears. I can't feel the pain or get angry for me, but I can for her. For now, that's ok - at least I'm feeling.

I really struggle with how someone can say they love you and yet treat you like that.

heartbeat

[ellemeth]

To me there is a very real difference between an open handed swat to a clothed bottom (more to startle than hurt) and a beating or even just regular spankings.

My daughter has felt the flat of my hand twice and only recently. My criteria for “spanking,” which for me is a single open hand swat to the bottom, is that she must already know and understand the rule, be capable of obeying it, and there must be danger involved. The two danger area that have deserved a swat so far are crawling into the dog’s crate (a grab and swat is better than losing her face to a temperamental 130 pound canine) since she has been reliable in that matter since she was about 3 and trying to put her hand on a waffle iron.

A swat is not a beating. I’ve had beatings (from my mother). I’ve had spankings also from my father who had the “spare the rod and spoil the child” philosophy and I’ve had single open handed swats from a firm grandparent. They are all definitely different. My daughter will never know the first two and I pity the poor fool who dares try something like that with my daughter. But the last is in my opinion, sometimes necessary to make a lasting impression when there isn’t time for discussion. Discussion should follow and also a consequence (i.e. no story before bed or time out) but there are times where an immediate result and not a discussion or a debate is necessary.