[JNs_AdtrandFes_Bdtr]

To the helpful and advising members of a.com, I, a lurker is in need of guidance,

Okay, I have been in reunion with bmom for about a year and a half (not quite) and never met F2F (we have not had time, I’m in college and she has two kids). We (if you have read my journal will know, though I have not updated for a while) have had our share of ups and downs. It seems like everything for the most part is going well. Here’s the part I question, she never calls me, if I email her she does not email me back, if I text her to ask her a question she’ll answer, but occasionally she’ll say call you later, and never does it. I call her, I used to call her once a week, but because of finals and school, I started calling her every two weeks (she has not changed the way she acts either), I don’t think she noticed the difference. She has done the not calling me back thing for awhile so I am use to it, but its beginning to frustrate me. I got to the point where I really want to stop calling her and wait for her to call me but I keep feeling that it is wrong, I don’t want to play games, nor do I want to test her. Also, she never talks when I call her, she says she has a boring life and nothing to say, so when I tell her that I can call her less, she says no, I can call her whenever I want to. I hear the jump in her voice to get the idea out of my head but it doesn’t help. I ask her if she has any questions for me, she always says no, she knows everything about me, and I wonder how? I don’t even know everything about myself. The only thing that keeps me going is the thought of her going to come visit in July which if she is really coming is a whole new conversation and can of worms altogether. I just want to yell, I want to tell her how I feel and I can’t. I don’t want to lose her, but this is killing me.
I just want to tell her that I am frustrated that she never calls me, she never e-mailed me back when we emailed each other, I feel as though she doesn’t try and doesn’t care. I am being the most flexible person in the world, I told her I would call her more if she wanted or less, she said call her when I want to. She said the same with email. I try to ask her questions (very superficial, about work, my sister, what are her plans for the weekend, I’ve tried deep question and she still says nothing) and she doesn’t want to reciprocate. I have tried to tell her what’s going on in my life but she just seems disinterested and everything is cool. I grasp the fact that she is not/does not want to articulate, though in her letters she was very (who knows). I just don’t understand where she is going with this. I am tired of trying so hard.
So all this to ask: do I just confront her and ask or am I missing something and need to watch my approach? I am not going to call her until Tues. or Wednes. night so you have time to ask questions or mull it over. She’s not going to call and if she does I have finals tonight and won’t be able to pick up the phone.

Thanks and God Bless Staci

[bmomto2_momto2]

I think this must be a horrible feeling for you. I do think you need to have an honest conversation with her about how you are feeling. If you can tell her what is bothering you without being critical you may discover the reasons behind the behavior. It may be a misconception she has about how to handle the reunion or any other number of things. You should be able to tell her what you are needing without fear of losing her. Be sure to tell her that you do not want that to happen at all. I hope you can get out of your relationship what you are seeking. I know that when I am finally able to have a reunion with my son... I would never ignore his attempts at communication or fail to reciprocate them. Best of luck

[RavenSong]

I think it's time for you to meet her face to face. Although email and phone calls are wonderful, I believe two people need to actually meet each other in person in order to develop a meaningful, lifelong relationship.

A couple things could be going on here. Your birthmom may be reluctant to say too much out of fear that she won't say the "right" thing or that she'll mess up somehow. That's a fairly common phenomenon in early reunion stages. I know it took me years after meeting my son until I didn't analyze every single sentence I said (usually afterwards).

The other thing that comes to mind is that your birthmom may be clinically depressed. I've had a few major depressions in my lifetime, and I know I get really quiet during those times. I have trouble talking on the phone, for example, if I'm going thru a depression. It doesn't seem to matter who the other person is on the phone, I just can't find the energy to talk...I can listen, but I can't talk if I'm depressed. Does that make sense?

I think maybe if you actually meet her in person, the situation may improve. I hope she opens up to you soon because I know this must be hurtful and frustrating for you. She may just not be very good at communicating her feelings...some people find it harder to open up than others. Have you tried writing her a letter about your concerns and fears?

[JNs_AdtrandFes_Bdtr]

RavenSong: I know we need to meet face to face, the hard thing is my amom won't let me drive anywhere (she's really over protective but that's another story) so I cannot get to her unless she gets me from the train staton or airport, which because of the small town she lives in would make it easier to drive besides my amom again not letting me go. So my only hope is if she comes and visits me which we had planned twice already and she bailed. So the reason why I am praying for July to work.
I think where all this comes from is the fact that I do not know what's going on in her head because she will not tell me. I tried writing her a letter a few months ago, it got her talking to me but she wanted to know why I just did not tell her. At the same time when I tell her she doesn't say anything. Maybe if calling her does not work I will try writing her again. I'm just confused.

~Staci

[Jackiejdajda]

I think she is afraid.. Staci.. give her time.. You are young (I am assuming this as you mention college) and she may worry about the tangle between you and the aparents and her emotions ..
Emotions that may have been buried for a long long time.. Emotions that may not have been acknowledged when she relinquished you...

Raven.. I have never put my inability to speak at times in my life.. to depression..

I say I am depressed know I am depressed and say I am ok and then walk away from all of it.. and beat myself up because I am detached again..

Interesting..

Jackie

[JNs_AdtrandFes_Bdtr]

So I have come back again with a bit of an update and again asking for some guidance.

I talked to my bmom very informally about talking to me and she says she tries not to answer in all one-word answers and to talk more. I don’t know, she had been talking about coming in July since she told me, until this week. A couple of days ago I asked if I could come to her house and spend the week with her and she said “ok.” I asked her if she was sure because I heard the hesitation in her voice and she said “yeah it’ll be cool. You can come over whenever you want.” Then she asked me when and I told her, in turn she said that she was going out of town that week and I said that I could come a different week. Then she said, no that she could try and change the date, that she would call me the next day and let me know. Well she did not call me, so I texted her the next day, she said she was too busy to call and she can’t do it. Fine, I sprung it on her a bit last minute. (2 weeks before) Now she is saying that she forgot about telling me about July and cannot make it. (I talked to her about it umm 4 days before and she brought it up) She isn’t coming to my graduation either, she is too busy. She’s too busy to call me, has too much work to do, has to help someone, or is going out somewhere. (Vacation, mall, ect.) What am I suppose to do, she has no time for me, doesn’t call me, I keep thinking she doesn’t care. Yes, I am going to talk to her, I don’t know when because “she’s so busy” but I wrote her a letter. I am not sending it to her because I think I need to finally get some confidence to talk to her about things, so I am going to read it to her, but I don’t know what to make of this, I have one thought but maybe there are some other perspectives that I am missing?

~Staci

[RavenSong]

Okay, I may be way off track here, but here are my thoughts. She may be scared of meeting you in person for a variety of reasons. Maybe she's put on some weight through the years...maybe she's "lost her looks", and she's embarassed. Maybe she thinks she's not "pretty enough" or "smart enough" or "rich enough". She could be a "pack rat" who is embarassed about you seeing her messy house. I know these all sound like silly possibilities, but they do happen.

No one in either my immediate or extended family has seen my mother in 16 years. It's not like we haven't tried...she just always comes up with some excuse not to see us. My mom is a vain woman who has always put a lot of stock into physical appearances. She was a very thin, tall, beautiful woman in her younger days. And over the past 16 years, she has put on a LOT of weight, osteoporosis has shortened her stature by a few inches, and she cannot afford the new veneers she needs for her front teeth. I really think she's too embarassed to allow any family members to see her in her old age.

I know a lot birthmoms are afraid of what their now-grown children will think of them...whether they'll stand up to muster upon reunion. Unfortunately, a lot of us also suffer from low self-esteem, which doesn't help a whole lot either. Do you think this could be the case with your bmom?

[keds]

Bingo Raven! When I met bson I told him I was embarrassed that I wasn't rich enough or thin enough or funny enough and he laughed out loud. None of that matters but the beating down of us for so many years. Low self-esteem - bingo!

[JNs_AdtrandFes_Bdtr]

okay, makes sense, but I still feel like this ---> Oh to be able to be in her head, if only for 10 minutes. I don't know if its self-esteem, nerves, or something else. I'll give her some time then I'll talk to her. I guess I just have to be that 8 letter P word. yuck...
Thanks guys.

~Staci

[kune]

Staci
A year and a half is not that long for reunions. It's all dependant on how easily one or both parties have been able to integrate their relationship into their lives.

A couple of questions - Has she told her 2 kids about you? If she has a partner, do they know about you? Perhaps she is too ashamed to tell them about you? Maybe she wants them to think of her as the perfect mother and the perfect partner and a woman who gives a child away doesn't fit the profile she's trying to portray.
Maybe she needs to know that this relationship with you will be ongoing and lifelong before she makes the decision to tell all?
Maybe she doesn't trust herself to be the person you want her to be?
Maybe she is feeling claustrophobic - feels you are taking things a little too fast?

You really have no idea what are the normal family ideals of the other reunion partner. Like.....Is she always the recipient of phone-calls - everyone rings her - she never initiates phone calls? Are the family reliant on her ..eg... is she looking after grandchildren or looking after an elderly family member...or alternately does she have good relationships with other family members?

I also wonder how well she can handle close relationships as she doesn't communicate that well and has memory lapses. Perhaps there is a medical or psychological problem.

I understand how frustrating this is for you. I don't understand how you would even contemplate not ringing if you sincerely want some sort of relationship with her. I'd suggest keeping it light....putting no pressure on her to visit (or you to come to her). I'd take a step and a half back....try to find out a little more about her in the phone calls and wait with (that P word) for her to come around.

Reunion is not a race - you have the rest of your lives to make this a good reunion so take measured steps - listen really carefully, ask the right questions and slowly work on building trust ......if possible.

Ann

[JNs_AdtrandFes_Bdtr]

Kune:
Yes, both of her kids know about me, I talk to my sister on a regular basis (well whenever I talk to my mom) and I do not talk to my brother, however it was his request. Her boyfriend also knows about me, I have talked to him once.
I think she doesn’t think that the relationship is for the long term, we have talked about that before but I don’t think she trusts it.
She may not trust the person I want her to be, my question is what does she think I want her to be. We have had the talk on are we going to be mother and daughter or friends and she said lets wait and see, I agreed, so I don’t know where she is heading.
I don’t know about taking things to fast, she asked to meet me the month after our first contact and I said that was too early. Then when I asked her a bit later, she said she was just waiting around for me to ask her. Then she never came, I asked her again and she never came. Then she asked me if she could come and yet again is not coming. Now we come to a couple of days ago when I asked her (I thought if she couldn’t come to me I would go to her). Other than that, we just talk on the phone about her job, kids, life, gas prices. It mostly stays light.

She is always taking about the people she needs to call or was talking on the phone with, her family is very close, mine the exact opposite. The reason we talk on the phone is that she doesn’t like email or any other mode of communication, I abhor talking on the phone, however I will do it and I don’t mind it too much.

I don’t think is necessarily psychological, she just doesn’t trust me enough to talk about some things and she forgets because she does so much, also because maybe she does not want to meet me and is scared so she says she’ll come and then something conveniently comes up. (Just my opinion)

How could I not want to call her? I feel like I’m bugging her, getting in the way of her life. When she doesn’t call I feel like she doesn’t care and doesn’t want to talk to me, so why should I call her. The only thing that keeps me calling is because I care so much and because when we do talk we have a good conversation.

*Sigh* yes patience, I will try. Though she says the reunion is up to me, I think it’s a lot more give and take than she may think. And I’ll be waiting for her to come around again, I told her I’m not going anywhere unless she asks me to leave her alone.

[hollyhunter]

Stacy, my situation is very similar to yours only I'm the bmom and I have a bdaughter in college. We've been in communication for 1 1/2 years. Its going fairly well, but so s-l-o-w. I hate talking on the phone myself and she hasn't progressed to the point of an actual conversation yet so its Email. I brought up f2f about a month after first contact but she wasn't ready. Dumb thing for me to do I guess. I wasn't either but I wasn't going to let that stop me. Anyway I decided not to bring it up again. Sometimes I think about what I will say if she ever wants to meet. I think I've developed a phobia about f2f now. I fear once we meet she won't want to know me anymore. Maybe your mom is just hanging on to a medium she has gotten too comfortable with. She's afraid to let go of what she knows. My fear now is that we have this email thing and we won't be able to break free of that medium and move forward to another. I also fear if things don't progress we will fade away eventually. She has told you that your the one calling the shots but she keeps making excuses not to meet. Have you asked her "what is the worst that could happen?" or will she not admit she is using excuses? Not wanting to meet can't be just fear of not being attractive enough. My daughter is beautiful and doesn't want to meet me. Me?.... well, put it this way, I never let my appearance get in the way of doing what I want. I think I am afraid of saying something stupid which is what I do when I get nervous. I think we need to talk about fear, maybe that will help.

[kune]

I have to say I was not like your bmom/daughter. I was scared stiff but wanted to meet my bson. I didn't want to push or call the shots, but told him I would be on the next flight if he told me he was ready. When he did say "come" I was there as soon as I could. Yes..I was worried that I was not what he expected. Yes I wondered if it would all be over and done with once he met me. I thought it possible he wanted to meet, find out the answers and then get on with this life; but I was prepared to have what was on offer, and to "hell" and back was easier than not knowing who he was.

We took 6 months getting to that stage. Another 2 years before we felt comfortable with each other, and another 4 years of occasional visits until we got to the part of really connecting. This didn't happen until we both talked about trusting the other to be there....no matter what. We had talked about what we wanted out of the relationship but at the 5 year stage we were still sort of going through the motions and not really connecting in a familiar way. Once we talked about trust and (obviously) decided to trust that this was a lifelong connection...only then did we really feel we belonged in the other's life.

You have to ask the hard questions....the ones that are really bugging you. Unless you communicate in a deep honest and meaningful way, I don't believe you can progress your relationship.

I think I am afraid of saying something stupid which is what I do when I get nervous

Getting past that point - saying what feels right in an honest way is the only thing that moved us from stalled to reunited.

She has told you that your the one calling the shots....

I missed that part. If she is passing the control over to you (and if I was in your shoes) I'd make a date, tell her you have made the arrangements and are just checking in with her so she can work around the timetable. (Who knows...she may say YES!!!)

I told her I’m not going anywhere unless she asks me to leave her alone.

she should have been over the moon with those words. I know I would be.

Where is all this leading....I feel like I've missed the point I was trying to make??? I wanted to know what my bson was feeling and I wanted to tell him how I felt too but for a long time we sort of "skirted" around the real honest feelings and didn't get to the heart-felt parts. When the direct questions came, so did the direct answers. So ask for what you want....don't leave any doubt in the other's mind about what you want or are trying to achieve. You have nothing to lose.

I know...no two reunions are ever alike and it is all dependant on the attitudes and emotional make-up of the people reuniting. But if you came from the same gene pool chances are there are similarities on both sides and if you try to find them you will see that you are both dragging your feet and someone needs to take that final step towards a f2f meeting. Keep plugging away......and don't be scared. I can assure you that what you are feeling is probably reflected in your mother/child's head and heart too.

Ann

[hollyhunter]

Ann, I've been hanging onto that quote, "don't spoil what you have by desiring what you don't." so thats where I'm at. What I have is edaughter, what I want is a face, a voice, expressions and laughter. Unforntunately, some of the genetic traits she obtained from me are what keeps us from progressing. I've always had a cynical nature and somewhat mistrusting. I'm an introvert at heart, I think she may be also. I have learned over the years to embrace fear and doubt and move forward, she isn't there yet. So much of this thing has been up to me for that reason. I have to extend my hand without being intrusive. She recoiled a few months ago with the suggestion of an IM chat. I'm willing to bring it up again but I need a sign she is ready. I think letting her know I'll be here unless she doesn't want me to be is a good one. I have assumed she knows that but maybe hearing the words will confirm it for her. Maybe thats where Staci's mom is too, hanging on to what she has afraid of desiring what she doesn't.

[browneyes0707]

I have found thing thread interesting to read, because I am in almos the exact situation, but I'm a birthmother and the other person in the relationship is my daughter's a-mom. I too do 98% of the correspondence (save for once or twice when she initiated contact.) For the most part, I do the writing, the facilitating, the question asking and she is pleasant, but not always responsive. She always promises follow up and has very rarely delivered. She too says she is busy a lot. But when I ask if I am contacting her too much (which I know I'm not) or I tell her that I feel I'm a burden, she says I'm not and tells me to please write, she loves it. But when I offer to change the frequency of contact, offer to make a schedule, offer to set up phone calls, she doesn't respond. Yet I still write her because I think it's a relationship worth pursing.

This in between stuff is rough, isn't it?

I'm reading all these responses, and the first thing that jumps out at me is fear. And I have long believed that DD's mom is scared of me, no matter what I do or she says to the contrary. I think in both ouf our cases (and your post has helped me realize this) the other person truly WANTS to be in a relationship, but wants it to be passive on their part. They can't handle or process all that comes with it, so they leave it in our hands to make the effort (like when your b-mom said you call the shots, when I read "write whenever you want, you're not a burden!") so that they can just react insread of initiate (which is easier) But they actually ARE controlling the relationship because they are keeping things as is without room for growth. They shy away at any attempt to progress the relationship, because they can't handle that either.

Does that make sense?

I do understand how you feel, and I'm sorry that you are going through it. The only thing I can say is keep plugging away (which is what I'm doing) and keep trying. Right now I'm actually on a break, and am trying to put some distance and time between us, to figure out what I can do beyond spinning my wheels and getting so emotionally wrapped up in this.

But I've learned to do what Kune said, and that's to ask for what I want, and say how I feel. If the door gets shut, it's not because I wasn't up front and honest about my feelings, KWIM? I have a voice too, and I feel as long as I'm respectful and understanding of boundaries, I should be able to try and vocalize what I would like to happen. A relationship takes two, and I know it's frustrating when it boils down to one....

((((HUGS))))