[Janeytwo]

Hey All,

I've wanted to post this since last week but thought I'd wait out of respect.

But something struck me last week and I wanted to share.

Over the years I've felt "apart" from people because I chose to relinquish. It felt like I was different somehow - that I went against nature.

I'm coming out of that - thank goodness.

But something else has taken its place as I've been here in this forum.

I watch the young women come in here and a few have expressed the desire to die; to end their lives.

My heart has ached for them.

And as I've watched their grief unfold, something has happened to me.

I've started to wonder if my reaction was against nature. I'm talking about how I tucked my head down and walked on. I hope I'm relaying that right. Was it wrong to not have relinquishment stop me dead in my tracks and end me? What does that say about me that it didn't?

Please understand - these are just my feelings. I'm not looking for backlash which people like me always expect when we let out any of our fears. We wait for the sharks to come in. Sigh....the Trust Road always has a boatload of ice on it and everone waits to slip, ya know?

Anyway...that's how it feels. Not only did I go against nature in my decisions but I went against nature in my survival of those decisions.

Has anyone else ever thought that way? Is it unsual to do so?

Any kind thoughts and sharing would be appreciated. I need guidance here.

(Note: I had something written about sharks in this space here, but I took it out on account of sooner or late I've got to start trusting people. All apologies to the Macos.)

[sstuart]

Originally Posted by Janeytwo

I've started to wonder if my reaction was against nature. I'm talking about how I tucked my head down and walked on. I hope I'm relaying that right. Was it wrong to not have relinquishment stop me dead in my tracks and end me? What does that say about me that it didn't?

I have also tucked my head and moved on. Now that I am in reunion I have to face some of the emotions that I have chosen to ignore. I think that for some this is a way of survival. I have tucked my head in for many things that have happened in my life. Some things that no one knows of--I have chosen to ignore it. Sometimes it rears its ugly head and I have to squash it back down. The head of that dragon. The first couple of years I drank--A LOT. Now I continue to ignore. Although I come here and read the thoughts I can never seem to put into words. I do not think that one moment in our lives can define us. I think that we are worth having around.

I always love to read your words of wisdom. Sometimes tucking and running is a good thing!

[JustPeachy]

Janey, I never felt as though I was going against nature by not having relinquishment stop me dead in my tracks. Often times I felt like I was going against SOCIETIES view of nature, and what a woman is "supposed" to do, by placing my child, but I don't think I ever felt I was going against my own nature. I really felt I was doing the best thing for my son and myself, painful as it was. If that is unnatural, so be it!

I understand the feeling "apart" from people. I think it is more pronounced for me since I don't have other children (mostly by choice, and somewhat by circumstance), and it's hard, as a woman in particular, to live in a society that pretty much expects you are going to have kids (and raise them!). So I've often felt like the "outsider" in this regard.

Was it wrong to not have relinquishment stop me dead in my tracks and end me?

I would have to say NO to this question.

What does that say about me that it didn't?

That you are a strong, gutsy lady, and a survivor. I'm not meaning to imply those who feel like ending their lives, or who ultimately do so, are weak. Everyone has different coping abilities and for some, perhaps relinquishing a child is just too much, or maybe they are already prone to not coping well from previous circumstances, and something as difficult as placing a child becomes the "straw that breaks the camel's back." I imagine we all have our breaking points, and what life circumstances one person can cope with, another cannot. But to me, the idea that someone is wrong or unnatural if she survives placing a child, and doesn't completely break down over it, or the idea that "well, she didn't love her child enough because if she did, she'd sacrifice herself by dying" is not right. There is enough pain and suffering in placing a child for adoption, why add more to it? And why feel guilty about moving forward, or living a good life despite the pain of that decision?? I would think our placed children would WANT us to be as happy and healthy as we want them to be and not on the brink of suicide.

But I totally get what you are saying about feeling like the "outsider." A lot of societal pressure is put on women to be a mother and enjoy every waking moment of it, and never say "I cannot do this" or "I'm not ready for this responsibility," and as birthmothers, we do call into question the whole notion of "maternal love and sacrifice," which is why we get hit with comments like "how could you give away your OWN BABY!" and "I could NEVER do THAT!! I'd work 5 jobs if I had to in order to keep my baby!!" And women have to pay a high price for not doing what they are "supposed" to do (raising their children whether they are able to or not), even if they had very valid reasons for not doing so. But I don't think suicide should be part of that price!! We already pay too high a price in terms of being treated with hostility, having unfair judgments put on us, coping with our own grief and loss with no societal support or ritual whatsoever, feeling guilty, perhaps, about our decision, and not having our decision validated by most people.

And if your relinquishment stopped you dead in your tracks and ended you, you wouldn't be here to offer us your words of wisdom and friendship, let alone all the other lives you touch in your everyday life! THAT would be a real tragedy, Janey, and I'm not exaggerating when I say that.

[cetalley]

Janey, and all the other wise ones. This post has enlightened me, the reason I continue to come back. In my journey of relinquishing, I have never felt like all the rest of us Firstmom. I have read so many Moms' journeys, and have never came upon one that I could say"yeah, I get that, thats how I have felt all these years". I have never felt the need to divulge my relinquishment of the twins,(maybe a protection mechanism?, nor have I ever felt shunned because of other peoples ideas of relinquishing a child!) It is however,possible that it is because I have never met anybody in my real life(as opposed to cyber life), that has ever relinquished a child, hell for that matter I don't even know an adopted child or adult. I have never felt a stigmatism, from anyone/society. In reality, I do not know if this(relinquishing/adopting,) can make someone decide to end their life. Possibly, because I have never felt this, reason I cannot phathom the idea. Do not get me wrong, I am 100% sure that there are women, whom just could not live with having done so. If I ever came across someone whom voiced these feelings, I sure would never ignore and walk away. I guess what I am trying to relay is...I know I relinquished twin sons..fact! I know it has ALWAYS bothered me,saddened me, at times depressed me, and yes even occassionally , I have had alcohol to help numb me! I have nobody to blame, thank GOD for that. My issues, stigma, sadness, is solely with myself. My life is not cunsumed by this act, as much as it is consumed, by my inability to stand up to the agency/S.W....My idea at the time, that I did not take action to go into that hospital and pick my sons' up and take them home..where they belonged. My anger and unresolve, bares solely upon me, my image in the mirror each day, and on occassion, self loathe of my actions. I have never come across anyone on these forums, that have to face cowardness/stupidity/ignorance that has been committed by no one other than theirselves. I have dealt daily with the fact that I, at 25 yrs.old, actually, truly believed, that a hospital could legally keep my twins, until I paid the hospital bill! I had never even questioned, why,if I did not sign relinquishment papers, any judge would take my 6 yr old! Why , and this is a serious question, ladies...WHY would a perfectly smart(although not overly), intelligent,happy,loving Mom, at 25 not fight back, or even question or rebel, or anything? So as you can see by my hi-jacking Janeys' post,, I have not ANYONE to blame..especially society/other people and what THEY think. Hell I don't even have enough humility to care what others think of mothers whom relinquish. I can say this, GOD gifted me with the cowardness to not end my life, for to do so, I am fully aware, would teach my son(s), that I had no faith in A GOD, and that the people I love, meant nothing to me by taking the easy way out..if you can say that suicide is an EASY way out! So tucking, hiding, running, no...just stupidity and ignorance...Hell I look at most of my sisters post on the forums, and can relate, to an extent...but my relinquishment of the twins has not paralized my life, for all in all , I have gone on and been blessed with a good life...but I still have to look in that mirror everyday, I see the scars from the twins, and realize, that I did this to myself...no one else! JANEY, I apologize for hi-jacking, you bring out the beast in me...keep post , for it makes me think, and understand a little more each day..

[RavenSong]

(((Janey))), sweetie, you are so NOT a freak of nature. You are one of the most sane ladies I've ever known.

I am one of those women whose grief brought me to my knees...it very nearly killed me. But as I was telling you yesterday, it wasn't just the grief from relinquishment that I was dealing with. When I attempted suicide as a young adult, it was in response to several extreme traumas happening too close together, within a period of weeks: the sudden death of a very close friend, a therapeutic abortion for medical reasons, and being beaten up and raped by three men. Oh, yeah, I also had just gotten out of a body cast and needed more spinal surgery...I was in extreme pain from a then undiagnosed tumor in my spinal canal. These events happened when my bson was 4 years old. I think it was the rape that pushed me over the edge.

The death of my friend triggered my adoption-related grief, I think. Unfortunately, the psychiatrists in 1976 had no idea about how to deal with birthmothers. I don't think they thought there were any long-term problems as far as grief and loss went. I'm not even sure they offered grief counseling for anybody back in those years. That specific therapy may not have been implemented until the early 1980's, after the publication of On Death and Dying by Elisabeth Kubler-Ross.

It's funny, Janey, but I've always felt I was a "freak of nature" for having the birthmom pain and grief. So it's kind of like we're on both sides of the spectrum. For years, I felt guilty that I couldn't just get on with my life in a healthy way...that I was somehow stuck in the past. I think being reunited with my son was tremendously healing in regards to the pathological grief I felt.

The only time I came close to feeling this type of pain again was 16 years into the reunion, when DS severed our relationship over a silly misunderstanding. When I joined up here on the forums, I was in an incredible amount of pain...it was worse in some ways than the original relinquishment pain. Thank God my son eventually realized that it was a simple case of miscommunication between us that had caused the problem. We were able to resume our relationship, and the deep pain I had been feeling just dissipated.

Janey, be glad you never went into the emotional depths of hell over surrendering your children. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. You're a survivor, kiddo...and you are one very tough, resilient woman. That's nothing to be ashamed of, my friend.

[BrockBaby]

Originally Posted by JustPeachy

I would think our placed children would WANT us to be as happy and healthy as we want them to be and not on the brink of suicide.

Yes, we do!! Growing up I would often think about my bmom and would think about how placing me was what she had to do, and that I hoped that it allowed her to have opportunities that she wouldn't have had. I can remember thinking things on those lines at a VERY young age (elementary school). Nobody "fed" me those lines..I was always just a deep thinker. As a matter of fact, I had made her, in my mind, into a successful person who would go on to achieve much. I wanted her to be successful, have more children, and live a full life. It would have torn me up to have her on the brink of suicide. I knew she'd have pain, but I didn't want her destroyed by not having me in her life. Does that make sense!? (these were my childhood thoughts)

I have more to add, but I HAVE to go pick my mom and grandma up to go to my aunts retirement party...be back with more thoughts later...lol

[thanksgivingmom]

Janey, I'm a little over two years into this adoption journey, having placed in November 2006. I remember there being times where I didn't feel that I was "birthmother" enough because I DIDN'T have those all encompassing feelings of depression. Sadness? Absolutely. Do I miss my daughter? Of course! But I personally never went through weeks or months of dark days where I couldn't get out of bed. Maybe I just pushed those feelings down, or maybe I didn't have them - I don't know. But I always felt like it put me in some kind of limbo....I relinquished my child, so I was "birthmother" enough to get judgement from those that pass judgement on us, and not "birthmother" enough to gain support from some other birthmothers - who in turn passed judgement on my LACK of apparent emotions (please know, I don't mean anyone here that's opening up about their experiences!) - that couldn't understand why I was adjusting so well....but was I? I don't know now.....I was denying and pushing things down, but I wouldn't exactly call that adjusting well.

Appearances can be deceiving.

Today I try my best to stay healthy - for me and for my daughter. I don't do my daughter a service by being depressed, by turning to drugs or alcohol (though know I'm not perfect....a bottle of wine has been my friend more than once on this journey), or by not surviving this road.

[thanksgivingmom]

PS. Really Brockster? The Steelers? I'll let it slide for now.

Go Cardinals!

[JustPeachy]

But I personally never went through weeks or months of dark days where I couldn't get out of bed.

I didn't either, TGM, and it was not my experience to have the hole in my heart that other birthmoms speak of. That's not to say I didn't experience proufound loss, or that I've never been sad or upset (or perhaps I just would use different language to explain my feelings rather than say "hole in my heart"), but I also never felt totally beaten down by it or felt my life was ruined or I made a terrible mistake. Maybe because I felt at the time so set in my decision, and wasn't forced to place, I don't know. Or maybe it is the difference between birthmoms who were able to get good counseling and have some kind of ongoing connection. I had semi-open with pictures and letters and that was a huge help for me. I don't know if I could have managed as well as I did had my adoption been totally closed for all these years. I think the women from the closed era had so much more trauma to deal with in terms of how they were treated, and expected to forget they even had a child, as if they could! On top of that, they were looked upon as "damaged goods" and "sluts" for having committed the "sin" of being pregnant out of wedlock. I cannot imagine being sent away to a maternity home, shunned by my family, everything needing to be a big secret, getting no counseling, stuffing all my feelings, etc. It is hard for us today to imagine how things were back then, but when I read "The Girls Who Went Away" I really had my eyes opened. So I can see where this deep trauma of unresolved grief can come from, but I also know there are other birthmoms who did/do have open or semi-open who have a harder time with grief and depression. I think it comes down to individual coping ability and a lot of this is how we are wired. There are probably parallels in the way adoptees handle the emotions that come up for them. Some are not bothered very much be being adopted, and others have much difficulty, sometimes lifelong. It's a very interesting topic, to say the least!

[RavenSong]

Originally Posted by JustPeachy

I think it comes down to individual coping ability and a lot of this is how we are wired. There are probably parallels in the way adoptees handle the emotions that come up for them. Some are not bothered very much be being adopted, and others have much difficulty, sometimes lifelong.

Personally, I disagree that it comes down to an individual's coping mechanisms. I've known birthmothers throughout the years who cope extremely well with adverse circumstances, who are very resilient women, and who have survived horrible childhoods with their sanity intact. Some of these birthmoms felt profound grief and loss over surrendering their babies for adoption.

Interesting point about adoptees. Maybe it's like the Primal Wound theory...some adoptees totally identify with Nancy Verrier's book, while others do not. Maybe birthmoms are like this, too...some have "holes in their heart", and some do not. I've never been able to figure out the differences in grieving. I've been in and out of adoption support groups for over 30 years, and I still haven't figured it out.

[BrockBaby]

Tomster...

REALLY!!!!! I just got a new jersey this past weekend, my man Troy Polamalu!!! It was a toss up between him and Ward, but my one best friends 20 month old and I have a thing for "monumonu". If you think I'm bad...they like the BROWNS, but I am converting my lil' bud to a team that actually has talent!!!!!

Anyway, I forgive you for not cheering on the black and gold....it was hard, but we 10/20 girls gotta forgive and move on....

ANYWAY...sorry for hijacking the thread for this but....

GOOOOOOO STEELERS!!!

[thanksgivingmom]

Okay, the hijacking will seriously stop right after this: It's okay - I LIKE troy since he came from my Trojans Almost all is forgiven. (Heck, you know I'm a colts fan anyway, just gotta show the west love! GO CARDS!)

[Janeytwo]

Hey Everyone! Thanks for the replies and all the kind words!! You guys rock!

Uhmmm...before I get to the serious stuff, I feel there is something I must say. (Pardon me - clearing my throat)...

I simply must publish my book so that I can get rich and buy you guys a ticket to come out here and go to Milan Dragway with me. Because ladies....football players, baseball players, hockey players, etc..... Well, they're all great, but if a man don't go low 4's in a quarter-mile, he ain't worth your time! (snicker)

Okay...that said.........

Stacy

Now that I am in reunion I have to face some of the emotions that I have chosen to ignore.

Nodding here. I think that's what I did when I came in here. I thought, "Okay, I'll talk about the courthouse and how much it hurts and then "poof" it will all go away!" I didn't know how much this was connected to everything else. I'd spent so long with my head down. And always in the background that feeling of being something outside of nature itself.

JustPeachy

Often times I felt like I was going against SOCIETIES view of nature.....but I don't think I ever felt I was going against my own nature.

Wow! I really like that you said this! You know, I hadn't thought of it that way. I guess I lumped us all in as this big blob of womanhood (icky way to put I know - sorry about that everybody). But I hadn't separated myself as individual in the face of being a woman in a community of women. Does that make sense? Looking at it the way you put it, does help me to see it better.

A lot of societal pressure is put on women to be a mother and enjoy every waking moment of it

Ooohh. That's for sure! Heck, I even feel guilty sometimes that I get tired when my little grandson is here. I feel like I should be dancing round the halls with joy even when I'm changing his poopy diapers when really I'm just going "Ewwwww!" LOL!

There was this scene in a movie I went to see last week Marley and Me where the wife is exhausted from her caring for her two year old and her new 4 month old colicky baby and she's crying and she says toher husband, "Nobody tells you it'll be this hard. That's not in the manual". I think a parent with 10 kids must've written that line.

not having our decision validated by most people.

You're right Peachy. We don't get validated, do we? No one has ever said to me, "You had a right to make the decision you made." Ya know what I mean? Not you were right to make the decision but you had a right to make it. I think there's a difference there somewhere. And through the years I've been afraid even to say this to myself. That would've gone against what was expected of me which was to suffer in silence. Again - going against what I was supposed to be.


Cetally

I can say this, GOD gifted me with the cowardness to not end my life, for

I think I understand what you mean here. I have often said I wouldn't have the guts to kill myself. I mean, suicide has always scared me because what if there's nothing more and I wasted the time I had? That thought frightens me. Not that I haven't thought about it once or twice. I suppose everyone does at some time or other.

Raven

For years, I felt guilty that I couldn't just get on with my life in a healthy way...that I was somehow stuck in the past.

Maybe both ways is being stuck. Tucking our heads down and moving on with the past hounding us at night or hiding in the past with the future knocking on the door scaring us to death.

I think you're right too about other things contributing to such deep grief as to push one to the edge. Maybe for some of us, the relinquishment is the very bitter icing on an already toxic cake. Sigh...I dunno.

Brockbaby Thanks for putting your words in here. It helps me to see better. I have long feared my children might ask me why I didn't just give up entirely. Somewhere along the line, I got the strange notion that they would. But the more I read in here, the more I come to understand that's not the usual way.

TGM

I remember there being times where I didn't feel that I was "birthmother" enough because I DIDN'T have those all encompassing feelings of depression.

Yeah. Over the years I kept asking myself, "What's wrong with me? How is it that I keep going? Am I some kind of psychopath? Family has said that what I did would've killed them, so why didn't it kill me?"

But it just couldn't. I just couldn't do it. And that felt like a betrayal but rolling over and giving up felt like one too.

Though I do remember when my Sister Susie had her baby and my mom saying, "See Janey. This is what good girls get. They get to have husbands who love them and they get to have kids with those husbands and keep them."

That one haunts me to this day and I remember that day thinking, "Maybe it's time to leave for good. But I couldn't do that. I had a little daughter to care for and it was just me and her. (Thank you God for putting my daughter in my life. She saved it in so many ways.)

Thanks for listening guys!

And thanks for always being here for a friend in need!

[JustPeachy]

Though I do remember when my Sister Susie had her baby and my mom saying, "See Janey. This is what good girls get. They get to have husbands who love them and they get to have kids with those husbands and keep them."

Janey, I hope this isn't inappropriate to bring up, but I have to wonder, was Sister Susie was a virgin when she married??? So many women in the past who were pregnant got labeled as "bad girls," "whores," etc., because they OMG!!! Had SEX before MARRIAGE!! And yet so many other women were having sex before marriage, too, even in the decades before the '60s. People like to pretend "good girls" didn't do it in those days, but many did. They just didn't get "caught" by becoming pregnant. That was the only difference, and there but for the grace of God.....

I don't know how you held back from throttling your mom when she said this to you. I feel so angry that she could say such a thing! And I'm willing to bet Sister Susie wasn't so perfect, either.

[shadow riderer]

Not to interrupt, but I was reading this and a thought just stuck in my head. In ref to people saying to BPs, "I could never do that." or anything similar in any ccircumstance. I always cringe when I hear such things. I've learned in my own life experience one thing. A person never truly knows what they can do, will do, or are capable of doing until they are in that situation.

BMoms, keep that in mind the next time someone judges you with a comment like that. They were not in your shoes. Had they been, they very well could have done the same thing, and probably would have. It's easy to say "I could never", but when faced with the situation, a person might find themselves surprised at what they would, or would not, do.