[RavenSong]

Originally Posted by Janeytwo

I have been institutionlized twice (of my own volition) and am willing to speak - quite openly - about my mental illness; at least as I experienced it. One thing I refuse to do is be ashamed of my history of mental illness...

...I have never apologized for being in "the bin" as I fondly call it and I don't shirk from that.

I'm smiling here, Janey, reading your words. You have a strength, a certain fearlessness that I don't possess. I've always hidden that part of my life from people in real life. I can't stand dealing with the furtive glances, the judgments, the condescending attitudes I get from some people if I bring up my past pysch history. And, yes, I call it "the bin" as well, lol.

Originally Posted by Janeytwo

(((( Raven )))) I know it must be hard for you to speak of this openly - even after all this time and I imagine that coming back from something like this must involve traveling down a very dark path not unlike slogging through nuclear waste. You've got a lot of guts, kiddo. We need people such as you; those who will talk of what happened and where it led them. Thank you for having the courage to share.

Thanks for the kind words, kiddo. But usually I don't have much trouble talking about the actual rape. I used to give lectures when I was an outreach worker for the Rape Crisis Center, and I often brought my own experiences up. I'm not ashamed of what happened, not at all. Rape infuriates me...it doesn't shame me.

I did have trouble, though, opening up the other night on this thread about the aftermath...about the suicide attempt. Talking about it triggered me for a couple days afterwards, mainly just a sense of deep sadness and a panicky feeling. But it's passing now. I'm not sure if I've ever really put down my feelings and what it felt like to attempt suicide before on paper, much less a public forum. But I'm glad I did it. Maybe it will help someone understand depression and suicide just a little bit better. Maybe someday someone will read this thread and decide to hold their loved one's hand a bit tighter.

Like I said earlier, I could never have come back all on my own. I needed someone to hold onto me, so I wouldn't go under. I couldn't do it myself...

[Jackiejdajda]

Janeytwo

One thing I refuse to do is be ashamed of my history of mental illness. I believe society as a whole would like very much to shut the mentally ill away and pretend they're not there but I find that notion rediculous to the point of absurdity. I.e., we ain't goin nowhere and nobody can make us!!

When a woman or girl.. or man or boy.. relinquish a child.. they are told to get over it.. (some are as always) get on with your life.. do the right thing and be happy.. don’t worry.. be happy..
My mom told me I went funny after I gave my first born up..



Jo Ellen wrote.

It could be even though your son has had a great life and is close to you he hasn't worked through his grief of what adoption has done to him internally.

And I think talking about it and expressing the feelings involved in the issues of someone that has been relinquished is very very important..
Its our reaction again.. we don’t want to feel guilt because we are part of the problem or issue.. so we want it to be all better..
Again its don’t worry be happy..


Janey

Part of it for me has to do with the harshness of the rules of my upbringing. You're born; you live; you die; it's over. Don't waste your time on pity for yourself or anyone else. Don't look back.

My mom would quote the bible.. "Don't look back or you will turn to stone.".
I used to have an image in my mind of that..
Don’t remember.. don’t talk about it.. (the walls have ears)… keep the secret..
There is a book I am thinking of downloading from audible.. Atlas Shrugged.. Ann Rand.. its sixty hours of listening..
But I have a feeling she has something really important here to discuss..
How we live in this world today.. or did before..

I keep thinking we are evolving..

Then too, there is the tyranny of the Program. Though it is a blessing; a path to freedom, IMO it also teaches a certain amount of callous detachment. IMO, the long-timers; the old sage ones? Jackie...it must take them years to learn what compassion with detachment is.

I will never forget when a couple that had a son involved in drug addiction being turned away from getting help because of the rules.. the old timers that wanted to rules.. It hurt me..
Sharing what we need to share about our addiction to thinking of other people has to be done.. And we got to sort this ourselves.. pure thinking on our part.. original thinking.. not some rule of thumb..

I looked up Alopecia as I'd never heard of it. It sounds like an illness that challenges a person's perceptions of themself in relation to how others view them. One of those illnesses that cannot be hidden. It must be so hard for both you and your son.

Ten years.. and I have gone through thinking its all my fault.. as I did not care for them proper and they had impetigo.. and that could be the cause to letting it go and getting spiritual..
It just hurts my heart.. and I am sure RC3 is hurting as well..
We can not do them.. and the lessons put in front of them must be their lessons..
We cannot control their lives.. be them..
Love hurts sometimes..

Jackie

[Jackiejdajda]

RavenSong

I remember when my bson was 14 years old, the adoption agency's post-adoptions caseworker told me he was suffering from a severe depression. And that was when I finally realized that depression is a biochemical illness, running in the blood. It's not a character defect or weakness. It was the first time I didn't feel guilty about my own depression.

There is still a part of my brain that wants to deny.. Pills for me were a way to get stoned.. get high or get calm..

It is so good that you learned this very important fact about biochemical illness..for some of us the old denial factor kicks in and we must be perfect.. perfect perfect..

The times in my life that I've been seriously depressed, I've scared my friends and loved ones. But the times when I'm in a "low-grade" depression, I think they just don't believe me, or they don't want to deal with it.

I can remember my daughter talking about how I had so many pills next to my chair.. in the living room..
My husband just had some teeth stuff done and the doctor gave me codeine.. (me is how I typed it.. him is the correct word)
Wooo.. I loved codeine.. I see the bottle full of it and I say to me.. no way.. am I going to touch that stuff now..
But then I don’t need pills any more.. I did the work..

Too scary for me...a lot of people survive those attempts and then end up with lifelong pain from breaking all the bones in their bodies. I'd rather have another round of therapy, lol...

Amen to that.. It's so right to do the therapy.. and do the sorting..
We are allowed to be happy.. I used to wonder about that.. My mom was a depressive.. she drank and then drank some more..
It was like walking out of quick sand after going to see her before she died.. and I did not want her crappy bits.. but my friend told me I needed to forgive her before she died.. I did not want to do this.. I wanted to hold on to my bone of contention and chew on it.. and work it..

I think your son does feel your feelings and thoughts, Jackie. So your daughter has a real important point in what she says. He can feel you worrying about him. Although, personally, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. At least he knows you love him...that you care about what he's feeling.

I love him so much.. And my daughter is like cold fresh water where he is concerned..
She gets angry.. In her band she gets angry with the ones that want to take a pass on life..
Get so stoned they don’t know anything..
She gets angry..
I must have done something right with her.. she reminds me..

That's a hard thing to deal with, IMO, especially if he is not talking about how he feels. Isolating one's self off from the world doesn't always mean depression. Sometimes it is just massive anger, sometimes an escape, sometimes a need to be alone for a while. I would listen to your gut instincts, Jackie. If you think he's just pissed off, that's probably what is going on with him. I think you have a pretty good handle on both your raised kids, Jackie.

He called last nite.. or hubby called him.. They talk about sports.. and he seems to be okay..

Thanks for listening guys.. and RC3 you are not alone..
I think we need to take care of ourselves at times in our lives.. I think I need to listen to myself..

Jackie

[RavenSong]

Originally Posted by Jackiejdajda

When a woman or girl.. or man or boy.. relinquish a child.. they are told to get over it.. (some are as always) get on with your life.. do the right thing and be happy.. don’t worry.. be happy.. My mom told me I went funny after I gave my first born up..

My dad said the same thing about me, Jackie...that I changed after I relinquished my firstborn child...my only child. How could we not change?? Back then, we were expected to bury the grief, to deny it even existed. The big rule was to never talk about it...never talk about our babies. If we did talk about them, we were labeled as maladjusted or unstable. I think it was society that was so crazy back in those years. To expect young women to just pretend that nothing had happened, to pretend that everything was hunky-dory...that's the insanity, IMHO.

Originally Posted by Jackiejdajda

And I think talking about it and expressing the feelings involved in the issues of someone that has been relinquished is very very important.. Its our reaction again.. we don’t want to feel guilt because we are part of the problem or issue.. so we want it to be all better.. Again its don’t worry, be happy..

Jackie, you have hit on a really important issue here. In reunion, when an adoptee expresses sorrow or grief stemming from his or her relinquishment, do we as birthmothers shy away from these feelings because of our own guilt, our own hand in creating the problem? Do we feel personally threatened when our children have adoption-related issues?

It took me a while to deal with this when I reunited with my son. Before I flew out to California to meet him, I was working with a fantastic woman, an adoptee who created a wonderful triad support group and is now a confidential intermediary. She said something to me the night before I left that hit me like a ton of bricks. I hated what she said to me, but I instinctively knew there was truth in it. She told me that I was going to have to "eat some crow" where my son was concerned.

What did this mean, I wondered? I soon found out what she was talking about. I had spent 18 years believing that I had given my son up for his own good, in his own best interests. I never considered the possibility that the relinquishment, itself, could have caused my son any grief or a sense of loss. After all, the professionals back in 1972 said that babies were blank slates...that nurture was more important than nature...that if a baby didn't meet its mother, he wouldn't know the difference when he met his new mother.

But the truth of the matter is my decision to relinquish caused my son a fair amount of pain. He did have at the age of 18 a number of adoption-related issues...he never would have had those particular issues if he hadn't been placed for adoption to begin with. And I had to learn to own up to my own responsibility in all of it.

Sure, times were different...society was harsh...choices were few...pressure to surrender was enormous. But in the end, it is my signature that is on those papers. Nobody held a gun to my head, nobody forced me to sign. And even though my son intellectually knows my reasons for giving him up, inside my little boy's heart of hearts, it still felt like rejection. That decision I made 36 years ago caused him some pain, a loss of self-worth, some doubts about his very existence. He's worked through most of this thru the years, but I did have to "eat some crow".

Originally Posted by Jackiejdajda

It just hurts my heart.. and I am sure RC3 is hurting as well.. We can not do them.. and the lessons put in front of them must be their lessons..
We cannot control their lives.. be them.. Love hurts sometimes..

Jackie, I think this is the hardest part of being a mother, this lesson you speak of. We cannot live our children's lives; we cannot sort the things that they must sort for themselves. But we can be there for them when they come to us for solace...for love...for someone to listen when no one else will.

[Janeytwo]

Hey Everybody!

I've always hidden that part of my life from people in real life. I can't stand dealing with the furtive glances, the judgments, the condescending attitudes I get from some people if I bring up my past pysch history.

LOL! Raven you don't understand. If you tell people you've been in the "nuthouse" they suddenly become very respectful and give you a wide berth! Give it a shot and see if it doesn't work. (But try to use your new-found powers for good) LOL!

Nah...seriously....I understand what you mean. It's frightening for people to think about mental illness because I'm sure at some point everyone's asked themselves if they're crazy. And that's half the problem....mental illness connoted with craziness. I think of craziness more along the lines of what we discuss in the Artist's Way forum. The people who are out there expending energy to make everyone else miserable? Those are the crazies.

Talking about it triggered me for a couple days afterwards, mainly just a sense of deep sadness and a panicky feeling.

Such a thing has a great deal of power; takes on a life of its own. And really, who wants to expose their jugular to the public's waiting teeth. Not I said Little Red Ridinghood.

Maybe someday someone will read this thread and decide to hold their loved one's hand a bit tighter.

And that's the point of all we do in here in the end, isn't it? At least I think so. Somewhere there is a person who shares our story in common just maybe they don't realize it. That sure was the case for me when I found this place.

Jackie

but my friend told me I needed to forgive her before she died.. I did not want to do this.. I wanted to hold on to my bone of contention and chew on it.

I am remembering that 10+ years ago, my dear friend. Watching from the net-distance as you struggled with your mother's death and the history gone before it. I respect how hard you've had to work to get to the point you are now; to coming to an acceptance of your mother's legacy. We were both grieving loss weren't we? Grieving the loss of what never really was; grieving illusions and the realities left in their wake. Much regard from me to you, Jackie. It was a long, long climb from the shadows, was it not?

But then I don’t need pills any more.. I did the work..

And testified through action to those who remain lost. It is a strange realization isn't it? Bill and Lois had no children of their own, but in their struggle to be free of addiction, they adopted millions.

The old messages of "anesthestize this pain" "turn from it" "kill it" "bury it"..........all of those are giving way. This summer, hubby taking me back down to Six Mile and below....back to the places I once walked in pain....it was like a catharsis....a coming home. A return from all of that. And when we ended at the fountain on Belle Isle, our grandson running delightfully in front of it, hand held out squealing in delight at the coolness of the water? I turned and looked out at my beloved Detroit and smiled.

The healing was beginning........

[LasVegasMom]

Ok, I have to jump in here. My son is 28 years old and he could be the same person you are describing. He has substance abuse issues, has for years before we were in reunion, and has many anger issues. He is very manipulative. Last year, 2 days into our face-to-face reunion, we were up late just the 2 of us and he told me that he had no self-love and had tried to kill himself 2 times before. Then a month later, he tried to kill himself again by taking tylenol pm and drinking. Two months ago he accidentally overdosed but i'm still not convinced it was accidental. That time, my husband had to give him cpr to save him. He has now moved back to be with his aparents as he feels that our reunion was not what he needed in his life and meeting me did not fix his problems. He is blaming me for every single problem in his life, is very jealous of his 1/2 brother and 1/2 sister and has mentioned to me that we should have grown up together as well. I have tried to get him into therapy, he won't go either, and his aparents know he has issues but they pretty much ignore it as well. He has even admitted to me that therapy was helpful to him but he went a while ago and does not think he needs it. I am constantly wondering if I will get a call about him from his wife saying he is dead. He has not spoken to me in 2 months now, and I think I am just one more issue for him to deal with that he cannot deal with. He has not mentioned suicide to me in a long time but he tells his wife all the time that her and the kids would be better off without him and that they could get survivor's benefits from social security and that would be better than him being around. However one good note is that 2 months ago in the last email he sent me he told me for the 1st time that he wanted to be around to see his kids grow up. I just think he is confused, he definitely would benefit from therapy, but he is also a master manipulator, just like your son, and has manipulated both me and his aparents. Hang in there, stay on top of him, and be in his life no matter what. I hope and pray we can both post to this board in the coming years and talk about our long reunions with our sons.
I know this next statement may upset some people but I just have to say it. I do not agree with adoption. I would say avoid it at all costs. Adoption colored my very existence, changed who I was and who i became, and most importantly it changed my son forever. I made the most important decision of both of our lives as a 17 year old. We took different paths, he and I, and I am the one that made that happen. I became an overachiever, he became overindulged and an underachiever. Neither of us has been happy in our lives. I was told to forget about him, never to speak of him, and pretend like I did not have a son out there somewhere. Little did they know he was still in me, in my heart forever, and nothing anyone could do would change that. I became an overachiever so he would be proud of me, every decision I made-good or bad-was because I had a son out there somewhere. Every decision he made-good or bad-was because he was adopted and felt like his first mom did not love him enough to keep him. I know my life would be completely different if I kept him, but I can't help but wonder what the hell did I do to him? Did I make him angry and suicidal and a substance abuser? It is a difficult cross to bear, but one I feel I must bear all the same. I am trying to work through this, just started the work after 28 years of silence. I am not ashamed of him, not ashamed of myself, and speak of him every chance I get. I have THREE children, not TWO like I said for so many years. I am no longer silenced, but I still have to think that his anger and depression are a direct result of his adoption. I hope he works through it, I pray he works through it, and I hope all your kids work through it too.

[keds]

LVM - I know it's unpopular but I too do not agree with adoption but, it was the only choice at the time and for that I have paid dearly - I've had the stuffing kicked out of me as a result. I do hope your son, and the others can work through their issues with adoption, I am lucky, or not, that my bson appears to be "adjusted" and quite happy - no issues. At times, and this may sound selfish, I am angry (?) that he's done so well when others have struggled, or, maybe, he's just not letting me see the whole picture.

I'm pretty much done with all of this now, I love and appreciate all the help I've received on the forums but he has made it clear that it was a "hi, nice to meet you, you don't have 3 heads and you love me, so see you aournd" situation, which is fine but my expectations (my fault and I am only just now aware how strong they were) was that we could find "some" way to have a "friendship". Maybe we will but I've beat myself up (along with others taking a few figurative hits on me, including my husband, kids) over him for the last 2 years so I'm a bit shell-shocked. I've decided, come January 1, I'll let him make the first move, call/write/e-mail if, and when, he wishes and I'll just pack up all those emotions, again. Self-preservation above all else. Of course, in your case, it's important to continue to contact and reassure him, I am sorry you're path is so much harder than mine. Perhaps that's why it's easier for me to back off.

Stay strong, do what you have to do and I sincerely hope your son realizes what a precious gift he has received. Too many of us don't until it's too late.

(((HUGS)))

Kate

[RavenSong]

Kate, I'm so sorry to hear that your son is backing away. It's just so darn hard when we have to let them go once again. It's not fair, I know. And I know how much it hurts.

Let go and let God... Eventually, your son will probably come back into your life. Until then, my friend, I hope you don't leave us here on the forums. I always look forward to reading your wise advise and opinions.

Stay healthy...stay strong.

[Janeytwo]

Hey "Vegas Mom", Happy Holidays to ya!

You posted some good stuff. Let's see....

I do not agree with adoption. I would say avoid it at all costs. Adoption colored my very existence, changed who I was and who i became, and most importantly it changed my son forever.

((( LasVegasMom ))) I've had these very same feelings; very same. Just wanted you to know that I empathize with the pain behind what you wrote here. And I respect you for having the courage to share what must be very difficult and frightening to say openly.

I know my life would be completely different if I kept him, but I can't help but wonder what the hell did I do to him? Did I make him angry and suicidal and a substance abuser?

Don't take anything I write next the wrong way....it's going to sound point blank....not meant like that. I know you love your son. And that, as a mom, we all hold ourselves accountable for our children's struggles. But I want to try and take that out of it and speak pure Recovery here to you.

I can see how your first instinct is to say that because you relinquished your son, he now has an addiction problem. I'm sure that if any of my children were addicts, I'd think the same. But after after a few days of relfection and beating myself into the mud (which I dang well know I would do) this is what I would say too myself:

VegasMom - You must try - and I know this is very, very hard - but you must try and let yourself off the hook. Forgive yourself immediately for his substance abuse problems. With very few exceptions, you cannot "make" someone an addict - most especially if you have not been in their life. In fact, in that case, you're in no way responsible.

Maaaann I hope what I say next doesn't sound callous. I understand that we're talking about your child here:

Perhaps if I put it this way (and again I write this with compassion).....I live on a street with probably....I dunno....500 other adults on it. And if 1 in 10 people are addicts.....I believe that's the generally accepted statistic.....that means (and forgive my math - it's terrible)...but that means 50 people on this street are addicts.

And I ain't never met one of them. Don't know them. I am not responsible for their drinking/drug problems. Nor am I responsible for the addiction of the other 25 million + addicts on the planet.

You want to know who is responsible? The truth? Ehh...personally, I'm not sure anyone is. Addiction is a disease; one no one asks to have. We might as well say we're responsible for someone having diabetes or Rheumatoid Arthritis. And maybe that sounds like an oversimplification. Shrug. Nature vs. nuture. What came first the chicken or the egg? Addiction is alive and well and will remain so with or without any of our beliefs about it. Addiction is one powerful SOB.

In the case of your son, there are things that you as a mom can do to help him with this terrible illness. Primarily and most important - educate yourself. That would be the best thing to do. Learn about addiction. There are many excellent books out there on the subject; how it works; how it wends itself into the family dynamic.

It is a family disease; effecting every member. That would include you because he is your son. His disease is definately effecting you. You are doubting yourself, hating yourself, feeling like a failure. See...this is how addiction f***'s with people. It hits them where it knows it'll hurt them most and then they're paralyzed with fear, remorse, self-hatred and regret.

Dont' let addiction run that game on you, VegasMom. And notice how I didn't say "dont' let your son run that game on you". It's not him talking; it's his disease.

Don't let the disease of addiction keep you from loving yourself enough to help your son. There's nothing it would like better than that. Trust me.

As for his pain over adoption, as I read Adoptees' stories I see the pain it causes. Sigh....I do not know the answer to that except therapy perhaps and miles of compassion and understanding. And again education, which is why I come here.


On adoption itself? Regret and heartbreaking loss seem to be it's legacy. I guess there's no way around that but through it. For myself, I have begun to think that I did the wrong thing. That I should've lived in the street with my children because people in here and out there would've thought I was a decent mother then.

But what would my children have thought? Would they have appreciated poverty? I dunno. I just don't know.

Which sucks.....eternally.

Wishing you better days and praying for your son's Recovery. People do come back from addiction, VegasMom. I've witnessed it more than once with my own eyes. Hang in there, okay?

Much hugs!

[LasVegasMom]

I am trying, this is just so darn hard. My son is not speaking to me, so all my information is thru his wife, who, thank god, is keeping in touch with me. I have now found out that his aparents are telling him to just forget about me, that he has known them for 28 years and me for only a year. They are telling my daughter in law not to tell him she is speaking to me, of course she tells him anyway. They told her that he is just trying to forget about me. My daughter in law said she feels like he is just trying to make his amom happy by saying those things, she told me he talks to her about me and she knows he misses me. Of course all this crap does not help his recovery. Which by the way, his amom has completely derailed by buying him a bottle of wine for christmas-this from a woman who doesn't even drink! She said he was begging her for it (duh-of course he was-he's an alcoholic!) and she doesn't want him to be mad at her. So she would rather he kill himself (he overdosed in October and was in the hospital for 9 days with liver and kidney failure) than be mad at her. I just knew this would happen if he went back ther. Nobody in that family stands up to him and he knows he can use his anger to get whatever he wants from his afamily because they are all afraid of him. Oh another wonderful nugget that his amom keeps on saying is that I gave him up 28 years ago so I just need to realize that I can't have him back whenever I feel like it. I gave him up, she tells my daughter in law, so that does not make me his mom. Uh, hello, he looks just like me, I carried him in my belly for 9 months, I gave birth to him. She tells my son that obviously I did not love him enough to keep him-what the f does she think this is? A friggin contest or something? Well, she is winning because know I now he will not speak to me as long as he is living with his aparents. This woman has been so nice to my face and then says ridiculous things like this behind my back! And I do know that my son wants me to prove her right, that I will turn my back on him. So even though I kind of want to back off for my own sanity, I don't want to because I know I will lose him forever if I don't at least stay in touch in some manner-email/text/voice mail. I am hanging in there because I know I will get the call when he really needs me, and I need to be there for him.

[Janeytwo]

Hey VegasMom!

I was glad to hear back from you as I always worry that in sharing about addiction I may alienate people. I'm a longtime AlAnon member and we're usually pretty quiet about it but sometimes the suffering of others just makes me want to reach out. Then of course being codependent I worry I shouldn't have reached out to start with. Sigh....an endless struggle this codependency crapolio!! I am somewhat afraid that even death might not cure it!

I have now found out that his aparents are telling him to just forget about me, that he has known them for 28 years and me for only a year.

she told me he talks to her about me and she knows he misses me. Of course all this crap does not help his recovery. Which by the way, his amom has completely derailed by buying him a bottle of wine for christmas-this from a woman who doesn't even drink!

On the stuff with your son's adoptiveparents. Hmmmm....that's a toughie. So many emotions from so many angles; so many people hurt and afraid. It is a minefield for sure. And it sounds like his amom is especially frightened or threatened perhaps is a better term. Then too, your son's illness has probably taken its toll on the sanity of those around him (not his fault - just his illness doing what it does). Also, there is this underlying fear - a jealousy of sorts - among people who are on the front lines of the addicts life. They worry that someone else will be able to do what they couldn't; save a loved one from their drinking or drugging. It's an odd quirk of the ego that takes years to overcome. Addiction wears the soul down after a while, until it is just a small husk inside the heart, buried under years of disappointment and sorrow.

Oh another wonderful nugget that his amom keeps on saying is that I gave him up 28 years ago so I just need to realize that I can't have him back whenever I feel like it. I gave him up, she tells my daughter in law, so that does not make me his mom.

It is very difficult to side-step the name-calling stuff. I know; I've battled that one myself.

Then again...maybe it's not name calling really. But that term "gave up"...it connotes some bad things to birthmothers sometimes. To some, it's as if we just simply threw up our hands and said "I give up! Take him!! I don't want him!! Give him to the Salvation Army!!" I think that there are people out there who because they are extremely ignorant actually believe that that's how we arrived at our decision to surrender our children. (Not saying your son's amom is one of them....just talking in general).

And you know a person can't find that kind of stupidity. In the end, it is it's own curse; causing someone to remain painfully blind to themselves and others. The cotton stuffed so far into the ears, a person couldn't hear traffic if they stood in the middle of the LA Freeway in rush hour.

She tells my son that obviously I did not love him enough to keep him-what does she think this is? A friggin contest or something? Well, she is winning because know I now he will not speak to me as long as he is living with his aparents.

I am hoping that some of the more senior members who are in reunion will see this thread and respond to it. I am not sure what to advise in this situation. It probably should fall to someone with far more experience than me. Reunion, from what I've learned, is a thorny thing that pricks everyone's skin and causes them to bleed. I will be praying though that there is some breakthrough somewhere so that the lines of communication can be opened in order to help all involved.

I am hanging in there because I know I will get the call when he really needs me, and I need to be there for him

This sounds like a very wise course of action.

(((( LasVegasMom )))) Hoping things can get better for you, your son and his adoptiveparents.

[RavenSong]

Originally Posted by LasVegasMom

Ok, I have to jump in here. My son is 28 years old and he could be the same person you are describing. He has substance abuse issues, has for years before we were in reunion, and has many anger issues. He is very manipulative. Last year, 2 days into our face-to-face reunion, we were up late just the 2 of us and he told me that he had no self-love and had tried to kill himself 2 times before. Then a month later, he tried to kill himself again by taking tylenol pm and drinking. Two months ago he accidentally overdosed but i'm still not convinced it was accidental. That time, my husband had to give him cpr to save him.

I doubt that the overdose was accidental, especially if your son took enough Tylenol PM to go into cardiac arrest. I'm surprised that the hospital didn't force him into the psych ward after being in ICU. Your son most likely sustained permanent liver damage from the OD, and it is more important now than ever that he not abuse any drugs or alcohol...he's risking his life if he does.

Has your son ever been evaluated for bipolar disorder? Many bipolars self-medicate with drugs and alcohol. The hard part to figure out is how much is due to substance abuse versus how much is due to mental illness. Regardless of whether his primary disease is addiction/alcoholism or mental illness, he'll need to be completely substance-free before he'll start feeling any better. It's almost impossible to treat a mental illness effectively if someone is still using drugs and/or alcohol.

Does adoption, itself, cause people to suffer from unipolar depression or bipolar disorder? I tend to think that it's a predisposition with a genetic basis. But I also think that this "predisposition" to depression can be triggered by environmental stressors. And from what I've read many adoptees struggle with low self-esteem and self-worth issues during childhood and adolescence. I think that adoption issues can contribute to a clinical depression, but I don't think the issues are the sole cause.

Originally Posted by LasVegasMom

He has now moved back to be with his aparents as he feels that our reunion was not what he needed in his life and meeting me did not fix his problems. He is blaming me for every single problem in his life, is very jealous of his 1/2 brother and 1/2 sister and has mentioned to me that we should have grown up together as well. I have tried to get him into therapy, he won't go either, and his aparents know he has issues but they pretty much ignore it as well. He has even admitted to me that therapy was helpful to him but he went a while ago and does not think he needs it.

Addicts and alcoholics blame other people in their lives...it's just a fact of the disease. The blame game is an easy one to play, but at the end of the day, we all have to take responsibility for our own lives. He's not a child or even a teenager...he's a full-grown man, a husband and a father. He needs to take the first step and seek help for himself.

Spending time wondering if his adoption caused all this pain and grief isn't going to do anything positive or good for you. None of us can turn back the clock...none of us can "unsign" those relinquishment papers, and we can't bring our babies home. Their babiehoods and childhoods are gone forever. Blaming ourselves can't help our children.

We can help them now, though. We can become integral parts of their lives. There is no need to "compete" with their aparents. Eventually most people in long-term reunions come to realize that love is infinite...there's enough love to go around. The issue of titles becomes irrelevant, too. We all have something of value that we can contribute to one anothers' lives. If an adoptee comes to love his birthmother, the love he has for his adoptive mother does not become less. But it takes a while before the people involved in a reunion come to realize this.

Originally Posted by LasVegasMom

I am constantly wondering if I will get a call about him from his wife saying he is dead. He has not spoken to me in 2 months now, and I think I am just one more issue for him to deal with that he cannot deal with. He has not mentioned suicide to me in a long time but he tells his wife all the time that her and the kids would be better off without him and that they could get survivor's benefits from social security and that would be better than him being around. However one good note is that 2 months ago in the last email he sent me he told me for the 1st time that he wanted to be around to see his kids grow up. I just think he is confused, he definitely would benefit from therapy, but he is also a master manipulator, just like your son, and has manipulated both me and his aparents.

Your son needs professional help. He also could benefit a lot from joining a 12-Step program, such as Alcoholics Anonymous. Millions of people worldwide have been in your son's shoes, and they have found sobriety through fellowship with one another...through sharing their experience, strength, and hope. Recovery is possible for everybody. It's a lot of hard work, but it only has to be done one day at a time. And he doesn't have to do it alone.

This is a hard road right now for you. But please know that others have walked that road before you...you aren't alone. I went through all this hard stuff, and more, with my own son when we reunited almost 19 years ago. It was a hard journey, but one that has brought me much love, much joy. And it was all worth it, every single bit of it.

[keds]

LVM and Janeytwo,

Sorry, I am not posting at the moment as I am not in a "positive" place and don't want to influence anyone but felt the need to reply to the thread. I am so sorry for your son's issues but you must not become involved in a power struggle with his parents - no matter their actions. I believe that the best course of action is to simply tell him that you are here for him but recognize that he, and his parents, need to concentrate on making him well and that you will help, if asked.

Although your intentions are in the right place, it seems to me that his amom is threatened and she may not be focused on what is most important - his health. As an objective third party, all involved need to get him the help he needs but if you suggest it, there will be resistance.

It is imperative that you stay in touch but ease off a little - let his parents figure it out - unless he truly is in danger of taking his own life. It is hard, horrible, hurts like hell but they need to concentrate on him, not losing him.

As for you not loving him by "giving" him up - I'm tired of hearing this about those of us that put others before us - nobody will ever win that argument with me. It surprises me that an adoptive parent would say such a thing as my experience is the opposite.

Take care, spend time speaking to friends and family and,most importantly, concentrate on what is important to your son - it may not be what you want but his health and happiness should always come first - to everyone. One day at a time. (((HUGS)))

Kate

[keds]

Raven,

Thanks, not in the best place right now but I do appreciate your thoughts and comments. I hope all is well with you and I'll try and get my act together for the new year.

Kate

[RavenSong]

Originally Posted by keds

Raven,

Thanks, not in the best place right now but I do appreciate your thoughts and comments. I hope all is well with you and I'll try and get my act together for the new year.

Kate

Kate, sounds to me like the two of us may be in the same place right now. The holiday season has been a rough one for me this year. Hang in there, my friend.