[into the sun]

Teddypan and Donna,
You both express yourselves so well, and help me put into words feelings and reactions that have been hard to clarify. I admire you both for finding ways to face life with your eyes wide open and thank you for sharing your thoughts, which help me do the same.
Please keep posting!
Sharon

[donnaparadise]

Thank you, Sharon.

If you can, just write about how you feel or what you think. Writing about it all is the single best thing I ever did to get through some of this stuff, let me tell you.

Don't worry if you say it 'right' - there are no wrong ways. Just say it. Own it. Mull it over and write it down. Eventually, your truth will come onto the page, for you to see and you will find comfort in them as well.

It is hard to get started, to be sure, but well worth the effort.

We've been stuffing our feelings and thoughts for so long, it is hard to do things any other way. However, for me, by writing it all out on this board in an anonymous way, I have been able to sort things out for myself and hopefully, by being open to new ways of seeing things, have been able to get through a lot of the old hurts to finally move forward, just a touch.

Stay close by and write when you can.
hugs,
Donna

[donnaparadise]

Dear, dear Philippa


I don't know how I did it, but I missed your post completely when I was responding yesterday. I'm so sorry!

Mostly I am sorry for this terrible turn of events that has happened for you.

This is truly devastating news, especially when there seemed no reason until now, to not have your hopes up.

I am so sad for you. Wallow, angel. It is time to grieve for all that was not and could not be and stay close so we can support you as best we can.

warm hugs
Donna

[Montraviatommyg]

Thanks Donna,

I'm getting a bit more of a grip on myself now but I know it will take time. Yesterday we did go to the PCT - don't ask me what that stands for but it deals with problems patients encounter with the NHS - to put in a verbal complaint about what's happened to us. By the time we had finished diplomatically ranting at the person we saw he was doing a good impersonation of a goldfish and was seriously squirming in his seat.

However there may be a light at the end of the tunnel as he said he hadn't heard of this sort of problem with infertility. He will be having a word with the director who deals with this sort of problem alongside the hospital and maybe something can be done to help us. We were also told to get our doctor to put in for an appeal for us and he will also contact our doctor as well.

What infuriates me more than anything is that even with my husband's low sperm count a miracle could happen and I could end up pregnant - we've been told this by our doctor that it could happen. Yet despite the fact I am capable of conceiving I can't get medical help at the moment. I appreciate the support though that I am getting.

Philippa

[Tigger27]

Well, that sounds like you might have some good news,
"a light" at the end of the tunnel is always good to hear.

I'll keep praying for you, hopefully you'll get some more good news or better yet have a miracle happen and get pregnant.

Good Luck and God Bless.

Anne

[teddypan]

Mont-

So very sorry you are having to endure this recent obstacle. I will keep you in my prayers that your miracle will happen!

[skinnylou]

Whew!!!! I have read all the post now!!!!

I am not unlike most of you! i thought I had done well all these years only to discover with my first f2f I could be brought to my knees.

I can honestly say I did the trance thing. You would have thought I had been on a vacation and was now back to my life. I spent all my time working and clubbing. Dance the night away and not remember a thing in the morning! How scarey that is for me now!!!!

I have spent the subsequent years building a person I could be proud of and no one would ever be shamed by me again.


I will have to find it but Verrier does address birthmother grief either in Primal Wound or Coming Home to Self. I will have to find it...it is fitting description of the disenfrancaised grief. I will lok tonight and post tomorrow!

[Jackiejdajda]

Donna what an amazing share.. Call me and we will meet up.. I would like that..

Originally Posted by donnaparadise

I thought the rage had gone. I thought I had dealt with it. But it is here again. I am raging against the judgement of others that put all the blame on a sad, little girl who was trying to find love in all the wrong places, trying to have 'fun' to distract herself from her personal pain, only to have it slap her in the face and face the consequences alone - totally alone!

This is my anger as well.. I was lucky.. My reunion turned out fairly simple..

But one thing I do know now is that we all need to sort our sorting.. And find our own personal emotional base..
I have been thinking about what I typed up the other day.. About what Bradshaw says about how we take on the emotional make up of the parents.. and I guess our maturity comes when we find our own emotional make up..
So we are no longer re-acting to an emotional situation.. just acting on who we are..

Hopkins..

Gerard Manly Hopkins

As kingfishers catch fire, dragonflies draw flame;
As tumbled over rim in roundy wells
Stones ring; like each tucked string tells, each hung bell's
Bow swung finds tongue to ring out broad its name;
Each mortal thing does one thing and the same:
Deals out that being indoors each one dwells;
Selves - goes itself; myself it speaks and spells,
Crying What I do is me: for that I came.


I love that poem..

Jackie

[Jackiejdajda]

Originally Posted by Montraviatommyg

It has brought back all those feelings of grief of giving up a child for adoption and not seeing him grow up. It is a horrible feeling that people are now playing 'God' with our lifes and I feel like I'm griefing for something I can't have.

Such a feeling of helplessness.. I understand what you are saying here.. and I am so sorry.

My goodness this must be difficult..

Jackie

[Montraviatommyg]

Thanks for the support, still early days yet and I'm hating it everytime I see a baby but managing to keep a grip on myself. Still have my moments when I'm crying but it's better out than in.

We have talked about adopting over the months if treatment didn't work not expecting to have to cope with this problem. At the moment we aren't talking about that as we need to work through our feelings first.

Philippa

[donnaparadise]

Hi Jackie

But one thing I do know now is that we all need to sort our sorting.. And find our own personal emotional base..

This is where I seem to be now. Everything I thought I knew about myself, no longer holds to be true and I am trying to figure out who I am, what I want, what I like, what are my feelings and what are the fallout from other's impressions or judgements of me. No easy task and one I thought I had well in hand, before now.

So we are no longer re-acting to an emotional situation.. just acting on who we are..

Who am I? Am I really the sum of all that has happened to me and the decisions I made, or am I someone else, who is caught like a deer in headlights, not knowing which direction to go in, for now.

Today, I am stuck in anger, depression, and not much hope. However, given the lessons I have learned in the other fellowship I belong to, I know that this too shall pass as the only thing we can really depend on is that things will change. To what? Who knows? I am here - open and waiting.

Thanks for sharing the poem
hugs,
Donna

[donnaparadise]

Philippa, there is not much one can say when there is so much hurt seen in a friend. I'm so sorry. This is so sad.

just sending you a warm hug and letting you know someone is thinking of you and wishing you good things.

Donna

[Jackiejdajda]

Originally Posted by teddypan

Triggers-yes there are triggers, and until the work is done there will be. At least the type that fling us into that terrible instability. We push the bad memories deep inside to survive everyday life. It's the minds way of almost "fainting". The panic comes when we do not express our feelings or fail to look at them. Panic is our fears and our desires I believe. Supressed anger is probably the best trigger for panic, because we feel we will "lose control" if we truly express it. We envision ourselves going to jail, losing our jobs, spouses, relationships, whatever if we truly expressed how ANGRY we are. It consumes us and we don't even know it.
.

And I think this is the plight of the birthparent who is sworn to secrecy.. Not to speak of what happened.
The unexpressed grief..
Its interesting.. When I met my bson my anger got very real.. I used to post on alt.adoption and I showed my anger there.. I can remember two birthmoms telling me to have a bit of anger but to be very careful because if I allowed it to take over I would be lost..(<my impression of their words)
I know they were speaking from their own personal experience. And I know they meant well.. But I also know I was triggered big time..
Again someone was telling me what to do.. Again I felt that old familiar tug of who in the heck do they think they are.. and I am not going to do it their way..

Originally Posted by teddypan

Although I know I wasn't to blame for any of the terrible things that happened to me as a child, I still always seemed to find it in my heart to protect those that hurt me, to seek their approval, to find excuses to continue having them in my life. They were toxic and the short term pain of disconnecting myself from them has been better than a continued lifetime of this feeling.

No matter what people have done to you, no matter how much your head knows it wasn't your fault.....the key, I believe is to forgive yourself. Our hearts have this ability to take on things and pound it into our heads that we are unworthy, and we are not. Forgive yourself for listening to those people that you thought knew what the he!! was right. Forgive yourself for plunging into behaviour you might not have done if you hadn't had to cope with this terrible grief nobody recognized or talked about. Forgive yourself for being a human being, and pushing such painful memories out of the light and into the pitch black.
.

And make sure they can not do it again.. And to me that is the learning about how to love oneself..
Doing the actual work of loving oneself.. Like Alice Miller says.. let that child lead you.

Some birthmoms (in the closed era) were brutalized mentally by the judges and social workers.. Given terrible words when they were most vulnerable.. Given terrible words and then told they must not talk about what happened.. Told to pretend it all away..

Then some were made to believe that it was their fault.. They being a burden on them (judges and social workers) and or society because they dared to have sex out of marriage.. I personally believe that sorting something like this is a very big deal..

The great thing about this place is it is open.. Open for birthmoms and dads who are still in hiding.. who have not turned around and faced themselves.. I hope and pray someone will read these threads and finally get to a place of starting the healing. And as you say Teddy.. forgiving themselves for believing the poison words.

Jackie

[Jackiejdajda]

Originally Posted by donnaparadise

Who am I? Am I really the sum of all that has happened to me and the decisions I made, or am I someone else, who is caught like a deer in headlights, not knowing which direction to go in, for now.

Someone somewhere spoke of a big mobia strip (or loop).. Said we are all on it and all things are connected..
We are just walking along one part of that strip.. paying attention..


Jackie

[donnaparadise]

Jackie, your wonderful post to Teddypan has reminded me of the events around the final judgement (for that what it was) surrounding the adoption process, about being told what to do, the feelings of powerlessness, lack of control, the dismissal, the devaluation and the unexpressed grief that was so firmly held in check, those many long years ago.

For a few months after my bdaughter was born, I would call the Worker to see how she was faring, as she had been born with some physical problems that were being addressed, successfully, I might add.

Then, came the call. The call whereby I had a date to appear in court on a certain day. The Worker told me it was time to make a decision and unless things had changed, it would be best not to delay any further.

I took time off work and took the 5 hour train trip to the town where my bdaughter had been born and met with the Worker. She tried to brief me on what was going to happen and warned me that the judge was very old and not terribly sympathetic towards 'unwed wayward girls who got themselves in a family way'.

I was called to the stand. Questions were asked. I was asked my religion and did not want to respond. I was brought up in a very strict Roman Catholic home with a somewhat fanatically religious mother and knew what effect that could have on a girl-child and in my hopeless effort to maintain some control in the process, decided I did not want to further impede her chances for a great adoption, so wanted to declare her 'no religion'.

As luck would have it, this elderly, white haired gentleman of a judge, just happened to be Catholic himself and he insisted I respond to his query as to what religion I was brought up in and what was the reason for my lack of response.

I relented and told him. He was furious. He was livid. He was apoplectic and laced into me, telling me I had no right to confuse the issue, it was not up to me to decide how she will and will not be; how I ought to be ashamed of myself for obviously going against my faith by my actions to begin with, and on and on and on. I don't remember much more of what he said other than the words: "Ward of the Court". And it was done.

I asked the Worker later what had happened and she told me that the Relinquishment had been completed and she was no longer mine and she was designated as Catholic. All over.

The Worker brought me to the foster home where my bdaughter was, in order to meet with her and spend a little time, as this was going to be the last time I would see her.

As soon as I walked in the door, the Foster Mother laughingly told me she had changed her name because it was strange and no one could pronounce it. I don't remember what her new name was.

I went into the bedroom and saw her there. She put her arms up to me and I held her and talked to her and rocked her in the rocking chair that was there, crying my eyes out and telling her I was sorry. Then, all too soon, the Worker came into the room to tell me it was time to leave.

She drove me to the train station and dropped me off and wished me luck, I think. I took the long trip home by myself - never to speak of it again for many, many years. In fact, I have not spoken of this 'judgement' to this day. I thought I had forgotten about it, you know?

But it is like a vivid dream that comes in and out of consciousness, sometimes in black and white and sometimes with many colours and it takes me back to yesterday and my yesterday becomes my today.

I have big issues with authority and people who tell me what to do and how I should do things and what I should say or think. That education started at my mother's knee but was exacerbated with the fatherly-looking man who took what little power I tried to hold onto. It was clear to me who was in charge, in control, and it was not me.

I am so grateful for this place; a place that I can come out of hiding somewhat and speak of the unspoken, the disallowed, the anger, the grief and perhaps one day, face myself to completion and heal.

One thing I know for sure: I could never in my wildest imaginings hate anyone on this green earth, enough to curse them with the wish that they would go through what I was put through and what happened to me. I would feel like I wanted to protect them with everything I had from suffering the aftermath of this kind of devaluating experience. Therefore, I need to be compassionate towards myself and perhaps in time, will learn that with compassion is love.

thanks for 'listening'.
Donna