[SchmennaLeigh]

loveajax: If what you say is true, that we only feel safe expressing anger with those whom we are closest, why AREN'T we feeling safe expressing that with those who are actively raising our child or the biological parents from whom our child came? Why are we short-changing that relationship?

[SchmennaLeigh]

Originally Posted by taramayrn

However sometimes when you hear something over and over again you start to believe it.

True, to a point.

When do we lose responsibility for our own well-being and healing, though? Where is that line? When do we get to say, "Well, I'll just continue to be silently angry until it explodes because x, y and z people told me to keep quiet about it." When do we have to step up and say, "I'm worth it. I want to heal. This needs changed/discussed/etc."

[loveajax]

Jenna, I hear you, but I actually don't "confront" anyone in my life...my MIL, my mom, my sis, my best friend (all of whom I have been angry with!!). It's a problem!!

[taramayrn]

Originally Posted by SchmennaLeigh

True, to a point.

When do we lose responsibility for our own well-being and healing, though? Where is that line? When do we get to say, "Well, I'll just continue to be silently angry until it explodes because x, y and z people told me to keep quiet about it." When do we have to step up and say, "I'm worth it. I want to heal. This needs changed/discussed/etc."

Good question, however one that is so individual. Some people never get to that point in their lives where they stand up and others get there relatively quickly. For me it depends on the situation and the person involved. With my dad it took me 26 years to stand up to him and tell him my true feelings. But with someone else I might be more quick to stand up. In regards to the aparents/adoption relationship things would have to be pretty bad for me to stand up. It's that whole "unbalanced power" thing that even after 9 years of a relatively good relationship gets me.

[SchmennaLeigh]

Unbalanced power. Hmm. Very interesting. Though, of course, so many claim that "birth parents have all the power."

I'm not seeing that to be so in a lot of these answers.

[thanksgivingmom]

I can NOT speak up for myself in adoption land when it comes to rational anger. I get frustrated when it takes nearly a month to hear back from Cupcake's Mom. I *think* that's fair and rational. But I don't bring it up to her because I don't want to rock the boat - not to mention that I've been told (like Tara said) over and over and over again, until a little part of me believes that at least maybe it's true, that I should be grateful for whatever morsel she gives me, and not ask for more.

In non adoption land, I think that I sometimes have a much easier time speaking up - why? Because there's not something as HUGE at stake. I know if I'm angry (for good reason) at my boss, I can confront her in a professional manner and discuss the problem - with a decent amount of confidence I won't lose my job. When my roommate leaves his dishes everywhere I tell him that it bugs me and explain the situation and he fixes it - but I'm never afraid he'll be offended and move out.

But with D? She gets mad and she takes away what feels like my everything!

So would I rather risk that and discuss my anger with D? Or just deal with my own anger?

I'll choose the latter. Every time.

[belleinblue1978]

Originally Posted by thanksgivingmom

Tara, great point!

Sometimes being angry at ALL feels irrational....I think for me any anger surrounding adoption feels irrational at times - like part of TPR is signing away your right to be angry.

We're constantly reminded that we *chose* to place our child - so we must deal with what comes after - and that includes dealing with pain and hurt without the anger.

I tend to think most of my anger and frustrations are justified and rational - but I know that there are times when I've flat out been told that they're not.

I'm with you there. It is the old "you chose your bed, now lie in it" thing.

I should ALWAYS be happy b/c I made my son's parents happy. As if that was my job, but people actually tell me that sometimes. Therefore isn't any anger that I feel at the situation irrational? Right with you there.

[belleinblue1978]

I too would rather be quiet than lose what little bit that I get.

The "funny" thing about OA is that it is so often one sided I think. In mine, I tend to make the effort, letter writing, cards, emails. No, I don't call, I'm not gonna, don't try to change my mind, lol. I get very little back. I think I have gotten three phone calls this year and two visits. The only time I have gotten calls is after I have called and left a message or written a letter. I don't want to lose that little bit that I have.

I also hear so often that his parents aren't responsible for how I feel, I shouldn't burden them with it, and on and on. So I don't say anything.

Funny how when they don't fulfill they aren't responsible for my feelings, but if I don't or if I overstep, I am responsible for theirs in alot of people's eyes. I don't feel that way, but it seems like alot of people do.

I am someone that is non confrontational in my regular life as well. I've gotten better because I've decided that if I don't say something things won't change. I used only get mad at my boyfriend and actually say something. Now I tell most people, even my dad if I am mad at them.

[SchmennaLeigh]

These answers are so depressing. Not in a "it's your fault" depressing way. But in a "gosh, reality sucks" kind of way.

"I too would rather be quiet than lose what little bit that I get."

Whatever happened to open, honest communication? Why have we allowed another party to so belittle us, either way, that we don't dare allow ourselves our own emotional space?

I am so sad right now.

[lovemy2boys]

Like Susiebear said earlier, I think my anger is irrational because sometimes I won't let it go...and I have a habit of playing the "what if" games...

You know the game...what if I say this and she says that! Then I say this and she says THAT! Ugh! My mind is a dangerous place, people!

Now the funny thing is, I'm pretty open with my feelings (both OA and Non OA related), and can tell someone when something is bothering/upsetting me...and I'm usually level headed and rational about it.

But there has been so much turmoil between D and myself that I'd rather let it go than start another war with her. I'd rather avoid expressing my real feelings (which never go over well with her) than to go through what we've gone through in the past. And unfortunately, time has not changed that part of our relationship.

[SchmennaLeigh]

Again, very interesting.

Everyone has been sharing some pretty vital stuff. Thank you.

[lovemy2boys]

You know, I've been thinking about this last night. Actually, I've been thinking about this ALOT since you've started this thread.

My relationships, though not perfect, are all really healthy. Adoption relationships with birthfamilies, relationships with my relatives, with my friends, with acquaintances...Except with D.

D's relationships are all destructive. All of them. Pretty much self sabotaged. She's had many things happen in her life which I believe has led to this.

So that leads me to this point in our lives/relationship. Where things aren't great...where she sabotages, and I resent.

We are at a crossroads that we've been at numerous times before. Do I say something and start the cycle again? Do I let it go and let my anger simmer? I think neither.

From MY end, I'm starting to understand that this is a pattern in her life. She does this ALL the time to ALL people - not just me. So I have to put that into perspective. At the same time, I have to be able to express things to her in a way that SHE doesn't see as an attack on her...in a way where my concerns/feelings are heard. In a way where she doesn't see MY concerns as an attack or a criticism of HER.

Now to find a way to do this...

But Jenna, I sincerely want to thank you for this thread. For me, it started out as a way to vent on things that I thought went further than normal anger and irritation. But now I think I've found some true understanding to the dynamics of my relationship with D.

I really do care about her. It probably seems like I don't because I'm always crabbing about her here, but the truth is, this is the only safe place where I CAN vent...where I KNOW people will understand.

[Suziebearhugs]

I think for me it depends on the person or how deeply the situation has hurt me or those close to me, in how far I'll go in actually expressing my reasons for being upset. Regardless if it's related to adoption or not.

For example I've been real stern with my dd's birth family several times over things that have happened in the past, but afterwards I come with an abundance of love, almost over compensating to let them know how and why I was upset but to let them know I'm still here, still love them and want to make it work.

But in my DS situation we haven't had those very difficult experiences in the past. So when his grandma missed a visit several weeks ago without calling. I was more concerned about what was going on with her than hurt or angry that she missed the visit. I just casualy left a message saying we missed her and hoped she was doing ok and for her to call me back when she could. Now, if it becomes a pattern with her then yes, I won't be afraid to speak up and make a big deal about it.

With my close family members it's the same way. I usually let the little stuff go. But when it comes to the big things that have really hurt me than I'm not afriad to speak my mind. I usually just write them a letter, rather than actually confronting them face to face or over the phone.

It doesn't always help, but at least I feel better standing up for myself and getting it out.

Same thing in those relationships (aside from adoption), we can't control how other people think, respond or act. We just have to choose wether we'll love them anyways and have them be a part of our life.

But that doesn't mean just ignoring all the bad stuff and letting them walk all over us. We have to set our own personal boundaries in other relationships as well.

[Leigh131313]

I think the idea of the imbalance of power is a pretty good reason why people don't feel that they can get angry/address issues, etc. But, I don't think it's a one side has it - the other doesn't sort of thing....
It's more about wanting to keep what you have - from BOTH sides. Worries about rocking the boat...this doesn't just stem from the person who "has" the child at the moment (ie. eparents before adoption, aparents after adoption)

I think for most of us, we are thrust into a very big relationship without the normal early stages of a relationship - much like an arranged marriage! We don't REALLY know each other, we don't have that comfort level that comes with most friendships (that start small and grow over time). So in a way, it's a bit forced feeling (not like being pushed into something ....but more like you feel like you have to put a bigger effort forward). The only true cure for this is time. For some people, the other party lives FAR away - even harder to get that familliarity and comfortable feeling.

Now - add in the fact that you may not have alot in common as far as "where you are in life" and it gets trickier!! I don't mean this financially or anything like that....I just mean, like in OUR case, we were married 8 years, working, and were ready to start a family....T was in grade nine.
Not alot in common there!!! Now that we've known each other for 4 years - she's done school, has worked and now has a baby....we have WAY more in common!!

I think sometimes the relationships are just really not that established!! This makes them feel shakier.

just some babbling......but my bottom line is I dont think it's all about who "has" the kid as far as power goes. We all have the power to just walk away - and the other party will do it's best to prevent that.

[SchmennaLeigh]

This thread has just been really... informative, don't you think?

Perhaps a must read for expectant parents considering placement, no?

More later.