[crick]

Another thread got me thinking on this question...

Seems like in general OA is held at a much higher "level" than a closed adoption. Obviously there are basic reasons for that since we all know the Closed Era of the past didn't really work out so hot in many ways.

However...it's interesting to me when an adoptee says "I was in a closed adoption and things were just fine", people tend to respond with a "Well, OA is better and it's in the best interest of the child". Why can't someone say that without being told it wasn't good enough? It obviously worked for them, so who is anyone else to tell them "sorry, but you missed out"?

Just curious to see where people stand on a few things in general...

1. Is OA truly better for a child?
2. Is Closed truly harmful for a child?
3. Are parents involved in an OA more "worthy" or viewed as the only ones having their children's best interests at heart better than those who are not in an OA? (applies to both aparents & bparents)
4. Do we push more for OA and if so...what are the main reasons we do so?

[crick]

Forgot to add...

I know this is a very touchy topic and can get heated. That's fine..I just ask that everyone be respectful in replies and remember that we all have different experiences.

[Vogi2002]

1. Is OA truly better for a child?

No, it's not automatically better or worse for the child...there are many variables that you have to consider before deciding contact level. If both parties get counseling, and respect the other, and are ready for an OA then I do believe it is the best thing. I believe that you should explore every option and be open to it...because you never know what might work best for your child.

2. Is Closed truly harmful for a child?

No, again I feel the same way as above. Adoption is not one sized fits all and anyone who says otherwise needs to do more research.

3. Are parents involved in an OA more "worthy" or viewed as the only ones having their children's best interests at heart better than those who are not in an OA? (applies to both aparents & bparents)

Yes parents that have a healthy OA are automatically viewed by others in the adoption world (especially on this board) to have the best interest at heart, which is very sad and judgemental. You have to almost explain yourself if you have a closed adoption, but not if you have an open (for the most part).

4. Do we push more for OA and if so...what are the main reasons we do so?

Yes, and that's not always a bad thing. I think in a healthy OA, it's the best thing for the child. The problem comes when one side or the other are unhealthy in the relationship (the aparents acting better than the bparents and feeling very possesive during visits...or the bparents being possesive and refusing to see the aparents as the parents of the child...refusing to respect them as a family unit, etc etc). The best thing you can do is put the child first. IF that means an OA, do so, if not, then don't. COUNSELING, COUNSELING, COUNSELING for each party involved every step of the way is SOOO important.

[Oceans]

I blogged about this this AM and I am still a bit heated up over it so I will try to stay cool. I know the closed era worked for some adoptees but it did not work for this one. And yes, I am speaking as an adoptee – not as a birthparent (for the most part).

Is OA truly better for a child: I don’t know but studies seem to suggest…

Is Closed truly harmful for a child: It was for this child. Not necessarily my long term day-to-day emotional health. However, it has deprived me of a relationship with my father that I would have liked to have had. A comfortable relationship. One where I don’t have to worry about what I say or what I do for fear of upsetting a reunion that is today 15 years in the making…Yes… We both still worry…

Are parents involved in an OA more "worthy" or viewed as the only ones having their children's best interests at heart better than those who are not in an OA? I don’t know. They certainly carry more responsibility to maintain an outside relationship which is why it can be so hard at times (JMO btw: I only have experience with closed)

Do we push more for OA and if so...what are the main reasons we do so? I do because both of my experiences as a closed era adoptee and bmom were NOT good. I admit I'm sometimes jealous of those who have OA’s (adoptees and bithmoms) and I KNOW its not the cake walk you read about. At times I think it may be harder but it does go back to my personal experience which is not one I would recommend to anyone.

Thanks for asking...

Edited to add: Push for OA no matter what? Ehhh That's tough because I do agree everyone's situation is different. I'm just saying my experience with CA wasn't wonderful... Everyone needs to evalute there own ability to commit, personal beliefs around OA, and of course any safety issues (abuse, drugs, etc)

[HBV]

1. Is OA truly better for a child? I don't know for sure yet, and I probably WON'T know for sure for a long time. I know it wasn't what we thought we wanted going in, but it's worked out for us so far. Here's what I think is good about it---it's honest, there's no mystery or fantasy for the child, families have access to genetic and medical information, and, hopefully, the child grows up w/ an understanding that he or she is loved by many people. I would never say it was "best". Clearly, there are circumstances where it wouldn't be best. Parents (birth and adoptive) who put their own needs above those of the child aren't going to be good candidates for this.


2. Is Closed truly harmful for a child? Most of the time, my guess would be no. My very lovely and capable assistant is an adoptee from the closed era and has no desire to find her birthmother. I have 2 other friends whose children are seeking reunion with birthparents now. Everyone's got some kind of family issues to deal with, whether they were adopted or not. I think the only time closed would be harmful is where the child is lied to or misled about the fact that they're adopted. Any relationship predicated on lies can't be that great of an idea.

3. Are parents involved in an OA more "worthy" or viewed as the only ones having their children's best interests at heart better than those who are not in an OA? (applies to both aparents & bparents) No way. Not in my mind. I didn't sign up for this because I wanted someone to think I was a saint. And I don't think worse of my aparent friends that have closed adoptions. I think this relationship is like your marriage---the way it works is really only relevant to your family. You can't extrapolate from your success (or failure) that someone else's relationship would benefit or suffer from doing things the same way you do.
4. Do we push more for OA and if so...what are the main reasons we do so? I honestly don't know about "pushing" it---I think it is good, overall, to encourage it as an option, to learn more about it, to monitor the relationships that are open now as the children age and the families change. But do I think we ought to tell people that it's the "best" one size fits all solution? No. To do that would encourage division in a community that, for self preservation, ought to be more united in its interests.

The way I look at it is this: Everyone, touched by adoption or not, is presented with gifts and skills as well as burdens and challenges over the course of their lifetime. It's up to us what we do with those. For some, an open relationship may be a gift, but for others, it may be a burden that's best put down. I think that the biggest issue I see w/ OA is when only one side of the triad's really interested in it. It can't work without full participation, and I think it's hard to get that sometimes.

[loveajax]

I have kind of a "unique" (? maybe) perspective. I am married to an adoptee from the closed era and am an a mom in an OA with DD's birth family.

To give you some background on DH, he and his two sibs (also adopted) are extremely close to their parents. Their parents have always encouraged their kids to search. SIL did and had a good reunion with her birth mom (her birth mom sadly died shortly thereafter). DH recently contacted his birth mom, and has not heard anything back (unfortunately). My BIL says that he views his birth mom as a "vessel" (his words, not mine) and truly has no interest in finding/learning anything about his birth family.

All three of them say that they think closed adoption was better for them and that they would have been confused by OA. They are three extremely smart, compassionate and happy people, so who am I to question what they think was "best" for them.

We are in an OA and while it has its struggles, I defintely see the benefits. I am hoping someday, DD will say she thinks OA was "best" for her...but who knows? I think it is great that she will always be able to know how much she is loved, to have questions answered, etc. I also think it is great that she will have the opportunity to have whatever kind of relationship she wants to have with them (and I'm sure this will be ever-changing). Do I think this works well in every situation? No. I'm even having some pretty major "pangs" of my own right now dealing with some "secrecy" issues on birth parents' part.

I don't think I am a "better" mom because we are in an OA. In fact, sometimes it stresses me out and I feel like a worse mom because of it.

I read something that the "happiest" adoptees are the ones who are in totally closed or really open adoptions. I worry that ours is somewhat "in the middle." To tell you the truth, OA right now has little practical consequences in our lives ....I wonder what the future will be like when DD is older. I am hoping it is "normal" to her and a positive experience.

I will be honest...probably the posts on a.com that affect me the most are the ones where adoptees say that they are happy with their lives, their closed adoptions, whatever, and get "shot down" or told somehow they are in denial. I would hate like heck for DD's experience (whatever it is for her, good and/or bad) to be minimized. DH doesn't post here, but when he reads some things, he gets agita (sp?)!

Great questions, Crick!

ETA: I hadn't seen Oceans' or HBV's posts...which are very helpful. I think what you think about OA is really dependent on your own personal experiences (wow...what a big revelation!). But anyway, so much about "OA" is gobbleygook talk in my mind, and when I read HBV's recent post about her day at the park, I thought "yeah, that's an OA that is working well." It was nice to have a visual!

[belleinblue1978]

Ok...

My closed adoption experience was pretty ok.... mom and I were talking the other day about how it would have been good for them to have ongoing counseling about adoption and raising adopted children rather than just hearing "take them home, love them like your own, and they will be fine." I wasn't just fine, I do have issues with being adopted and mom wishes she could have helped me with those.

I don't think that people that choose open adoption are any better than those that choose closed adoption. We are all comfortable with different things. Do I think that OA is better for my kid? Yeah I do, b/c I think I am a good person and that knowing me will help him.

I speak that as someone from a closed adoption who wishes to heaven and back that her first mom wouldn't have rejected her. I wanted to know my firstmom, not necessarily have a relationship, and I don't want her to be my mom, I have one, but I would have liked to have met her. I don't insinuate myself into ever last part of my son's life. Do you know how much that would hurt ME if I did that? Why can't that be seen and understood by people that grew up in closed adoptions or people that have closed adoptions now. I don't lurk in shadowy corners and follow my kid around when I shouldn't or any weird stalker like stuff. I honestly have no issue with people that don't want to pursue an open adoption for whatever reason, but don't tell me what my motives are for choosing open adoption when you aren't me and don't even know me.

What bothers me is that my experience as an adopted person is ignored when I post on first mom forums because I am a firstmom as well. It gets ignored by everyone.

So all of this brings up a question of my own: Why is it ok for people from the closed era to blow into a thread on a firstmoms forum and tell us how open adoption is just about us? Why is fair for someone who says oh every person I know in a closed adoption is happy and doesn't want to search and when someone says but I'm not happy everyone gets upset with that person?

I'm tired of being torn apart because of how I feel. I'm tired of having to accept double standards that aren't fair. I'm just tired of alot of things.

[Nicole28]

1. Is OA truly better for a child?
2. Is Closed truly harmful for a child?
3. Are parents involved in an OA more "worthy" or viewed as the only ones having their children's best interests at heart better than those who are not in an OA? (applies to both aparents & bparents)
4. Do we push more for OA and if so...what are the main reasons we do so?

1. I have no experience with open adoption, but I have always assumed that it would be just as emotionally confusing/complicated to be an adoptee in an OA as it is to be an adoptee in a closed adoption. I imagine that having to build relationships with your biological family as well as your adoptive family would prove to be incredibly difficult. I do not think it is "better" than closed adoption; I believe that both situations present their own postives and negatives.

2. I do not think "harmful" is the appropriate word to describe closed adoption...I would say, though, that closed adoptions do present the opportunity for much confusion and emotional distress on the part of the adoptee. Implying the closed adoption "harms" the adoptee is off base, I think - - more like closed adoption can often lead to an array of related issues as an adoptee becomes an adult. As I said before, OA presents the possibility of certain negative consequences also.

3. I do not think that adoptive parents who choose an open adoption are "better" or morally superior to adoptive parents who chose an OA. Think about the 80's - to my knowledge, there were very few open adoptions because of the shame and stigma and secrecy attached to adoption, so adoptive parents during that time did not have the option of an OA. I imagine that a potential adoptive parent chooses OA or closed adoption based on their idea of what will be best for their adopted child and their family, so I respect that choice either way.

4. I honestly do not know enough about OA to say either way, but I do think that it is becoming the "adoption of choice" - that is to say that more adoptive parents are choosing OA. Is this even correct? I admit that I don't know.

Personally, I have a love/hate relationship with my closed adoption, but I imagine that I would prefer it to an OA.

[crick]

Thanks for sharing some opinions, I do appreciate it!

I asked really because a thread yesterday reminded me of another thread and I went back searching for something I had read awhile back. (got that?)

When I did that, I read a lot of posts on OA/Closed and how it seems like there's a sense of "OA is it and if you have a closed, you are ruining your child's life". There was also a lot of "I grew up closed and it was fine for me" where the responses to that were "Just because it worked for you doesn't mean it works now and we are more enlightened now.", and that is really what hit me because my family is a closed and I do like to think I'm "enlightened". lol!

Almost as if there's an opinion out there that a closed adoption means non educated on adoption "issues", non acceptance of the bio connection, automatic assumption that if you have a closed, you are absolving yourself of responsibility etc.

Just as OA has grown and changed over the years, I think it also applies to closed adoptions. In a domestic voluntarily closed adoption, they have made better strides at providing medical history, facts etc. and ways to contact if medically necessary.

I feel there are "pros & cons" on both sides, and really I think what surprises me is how absolute our experiences really can be. I have my own opinions on OA, but know since I've not experienced it, my opinion is not going to count for much. That's fine...but it makes me wonder then how it doesn't seem to be the same for those in OA saying "oh, closed is BAD BAD BAD" when they haven't been in a closed. kwim? (I know some do have experience with both but I would think the majority do not)

I try not to take it personally when people shoot down the closed adoptions because I know it's right for us. Granted, we have the foster care element driving this decision, however...I still think that people can be informed, educated and supportive if they elect a voluntary closed adoption too. And again...always pros & cons and each side will present unique issues to work on.

While I know some believe that OA is harder because you have to work on maintaining a relationship with the bfamily, I don't necessarily agree that makes Closed easy. Closed will present a different type of challenges to overcome that can also be difficult to work on, so really...just different and in the end, we all do what works for us. In the end...both present hard challenges and hopefully we all work on those!

Anyway...just made me really curious to see how people truly view things.

[belleinblue1978]

Crick,

This is jmho, but you have a completely different situation going on then your average voluntarily reliquinishment. Your kids were removed from their bparent's homes for whatever reasons, I can see why you would have closed adoptions.

I can also see why in some voluntary reliquinishments people would want closed adoptions, on either side of the fence.

I don't think that I am special b/c I have an open adoption with my son. Do I think it is hard work? Yes I do and the grieving is different than someone in a closed adoption experiences. Not more, just different.

For me personally, considering that I am pretty healthy and pretty stable and have worked darn hard to become a better person than the one that placed her child, I think I am an addition to his life. I grew up not knowing anything about my firstfamily and I don't want that for my son.

We do what is best for our kids right? Well that is what I am doing.

Remember now, I'm not trying to sell open adoption as the only option or as the better option, just the one that I think is better for us in our situation.

[Oceans]

Crick – If I’m honest, my knee jerk reaction to CA, in a regular domestic adoption, no special circumstances, let’s not get into semantics sort of way is that it is “bad” (for lack of a better word). That’s my emotional response – can’t help that. I am working on the logical response.

However when I think of “closed” I think of complete veil of secrecy which was my experience as a first mom and you are right, that’s not necessarily CA these days.

As a step parent adoptee, I guess I had the next level of CA. I knew his name, state he lived in and able to ask for contact info if I wanted. That wasn’t stellar either. I cant help but feel even calls on my birthday (his responsibility) or handing me the phone to call him on his birthday… Something like that.... that would have improved the relationship I have with him today.

My (sort of) CA didn’t really impact me much of my early years other than I missed him. It’s my adult years that have felt the impact more than anything.

I am also fully aware it could be the “grass is always greener” syndrome.

I’ve mostly decided that I shouldn’t voice my opinion other than the regular PC answer, “do what is right for you”. I discovered in the past few days that I am pretty short sided on the issue (and that bugs me about me).

Here’s the thing tho… We really don’t know what to *fix* about adoption until 18, 20, or 30 years later – when the adoptees finally have a voice – and even then we have a hard time listening because so much has changed in the meantime. I think that’s probably the most frustrating thing when trying to figure out what’s best…We won’t know until years later…

[crick]

Belle...I know foster is different...believe me I do. I don't see the similarities between bparents at all in a foster adoption vs. voluntary placement etc.

However, some of the same issues present themselves for my kids in a lot of ways, regardless the reason why it's closed or not. kwim? And yet...things do work, things aren't full of despair etc. as some seem to view closed adoption as. My dh is also an adoptee from the closed era so that too adds to things with my perspectives.

I am not saying OA is bad at all...hope that isn't what people get from my posts! I'm just trying to figure out I guess why it is perceived to be so much better (when we know there's still challenges, it's not an easier road in some ways etc.) and in turn, those parents are seen as "better". Not saying you personally...just the overall feel I get at times is all. In my mind...it's all work at times, we are all trying to do it "right" and hope we don't ruin our kids' lives forever. (well, no more than we are supposed to anyway LOL!)

As with many things, I always find it surprising how much some of my opinions change over the years everytime I go down a memory lane post search. REALLY need to stop doing that.

[belleinblue1978]

Crick,

I grew up in a closed adoption, I know all about it, which is part of what drives me to keep an open adoption with my son.

[crick]

Originally Posted by Oceans

I’ve mostly decided that I shouldn’t voice my opinion other than the regular PC answer, “do what is right for you”. I discovered in the past few days that I am pretty short sided on the issue (and that bugs me about me).

Here’s the thing tho… We really don’t know what to *fix* about adoption until 18, 20, or 30 years later – when the adoptees finally have a voice – and even then we have a hard time listening because so much has changed in the meantime. I think that’s probably the most frustrating thing when trying to figure out what’s best…We won’t know until years later…

Oceans - I think you should cut yourself slack on that one. Really! I think we all have the "do what's right for you, here's my take on it" and that is how we learn, support and actually have great discussions. I just really wanted to know what drives everyone's opinions so fiercely and trying to see if we do get through to each other. To see if my perceptions of others and even those of me are accurate.

Which brings me to your last part of your post. You are right...some things are not ever going to present themselves until later in life and in the meantime, hopefully our best is enough. I do hope though that we've come a long way in listening to adoptee's voices before they are adults.

[crick]

Belle...yes, you know all about your closed experience. I don't think I ever said you didn't. I can see you would want something different than your personal experience for your son.