[loveajax]

oceans, eureka!

i would like this now because in my profile, I could list that I am now a "world class athlete" (hahahaha)

[belleinblue1978]

Crick,

The education thing is great in theory, but as we all know, education is only as good as the educator.

Also, when you go for "options" counseling, after you choose OA, you should be getting educated as a first mom. If you're thinking a class... that would be pretty hard for first moms, it isn't like you can say well we offer this class to become a firstmom four times a year like you can with adopting. Firstmoms and dads should be getting educated, you just wouldn't see it the same way you would with people planning on adopting.

[AMom2Two]

Originally Posted by crick

I took classes to adopt my kids and that's because there are a bunch of "issues" that can come with it. (among other reasons) When I think about it though, OA also comes with its own set of "issues" and really wonder if things wouldn't be better if parents were required to take say 10 hours of education "training" before proceeding. Not just aparents, but moms to be considering this option too.

Thoughts??

I think education is a great tool. I also took classes before adopting but it was all on the adoption process and the grief of bmothers, it was never about open adoption.

I am really struggling with open adoption and I feel if I had the chance to attend classes and learn about it before hand, then I would have been better prepared to deal with some of the issues I am currently dealing with.

I think educational training should be offered to all parties.

[startedover]

You know as I open my adoption more and more I hope Iam doing the right thing because let's face it , apparently it took the "system" DECADES to decided most (not all) closed adoptions were not in the best interest of the child. So this NEW ERA way has not stood the test of time and our great great grandchildren may someday be sitting at their computers communicating to others that have adopted and it may go something like this "Yes I remember my great grandma told me that OA use to be the normal, I can't imagine that in todays world" Just as years ago those involved in adoption probably could not conceive the ideal of how someday people involved in adoption MIGHT ACTUALLY KNOW THE INVOLVED PARTIES.. Only time can answer such questions. But my personal feelings are that it all depends on the individual situation.

[crick]

Originally Posted by belleinblue1978

Crick,

The education thing is great in theory, but as we all know, education is only as good as the educator.

Also, when you go for "options" counseling, after you choose OA, you should be getting educated as a first mom. If you're thinking a class... that would be pretty hard for first moms, it isn't like you can say well we offer this class to become a firstmom four times a year like you can with adopting. Firstmoms and dads should be getting educated, you just wouldn't see it the same way you would with people planning on adopting.

True...excellent point. Maybe not a class like the ole school girl class is what I mean. Something to help both parties really know what they want/expect before matching, before finalizing, etc. I know there is after placement counselling available of course, just wondered if things done beforehand could help.

[hrisme]

1. Is OA truly better for a child?

I think having open access to information on the biological family is without question better for the child. As far as openness in the way of visits, letters, photos, etc. I think it depends on the individual situation.

2. Is Closed truly harmful for a child?

In my case, I don't know that an open adoption would have been particularly healthy for me. Regular visits with an individual with schizophrenia before I was in a place to understand the complexity of psychotic disorders probably would have been emotionally upsetting. I think pictures & letters could have been made to work, if there was someone willing to represent my birthmother--but considering what her caseworker said when we first met I don't think there was anyone consistent in her life who could have helped her with that. So I wouldn't say closed adoption was more harmful than open adoption. But what was extremely harmful, both to me and to her, were the secrets and lies. Nobody told us anything about her, or her anything about me. She didn't even know if I had lived or died. I don't know that insisting on open adoption is the way to go--but I do think we absolutely must do away with the secretive approach to adoption, and certainly with the straight-out lies that are all too common.

3. Are parents involved in an OA more "worthy" or viewed as the only ones having their children's best interests at heart better than those who are not in an OA? (applies to both aparents & bparents)

If they are viewed that way, it is unfortunate. I personally don't view them that way.



4. Do we push more for OA and if so...what are the main reasons we do so?[/quote]

I think birthparents have a right to choose what level of contact they are comfortable with. I've worked with some girls (particularly those pregnant through rape or similar situations) who need to just place the baby and move on. I've worked with some who need contact at the beginning, but once they realize their children are safe they are ready to move on. I've also worked with those who choose to maintain contact, and find that beneficial. So I think the birthparents should have the right to choose, and to specify what type of contact they want and how much of it before placement. I do think this should be spelled out in a contract, which is legally enforced.

I also think adoptive parents have the right to choose what level of contact they are comfortable with. Open adoption is not right for everyone, and if the adoptive parents "settle" for it instead of entering willingly into the relationship it is not going to be in the best interest of the child. However, adoptive parents choosing to have a closed placement should seek birthmothers choosing to have a closed placement. If they indicate they are willing to have an open adoption, they should stand by that.

In any case, I think information on the birthparents should be available to the child when they are ready to search. I'm a big fan of legislation opening adoption records. I do think birthparents have the right to ask that they not be found, and that allowances should be made for this. However, non-identifying information such as medical history should be made available in all situations. Ultimately, only the child can decide what is in the best interest of the child--so if it's the child's rights we are focusing on they should be able to choose, and be provided with the resources to find the information they have a right to.

Of course, if it's a matter of the birthmother dumping a baby in the dumpster or leaving the baby at a fire station, forget the open adoption issue. I'm also a fan of safe haven laws. But I don't think that's what we're referring to in this thread!

[thanksgivingmom]

Okay, I realize I'm crazy late in chiming in here (only a couple of days really, but for pages worth of action!) and so I thought I should answer the questions before I tackled some of the discussion as well...

1. Is OA truly better for a child?

I think in an ideal world with ideal situations, yes. It's taken me a long time to get to this belief, but I think that's where I am for now. However, as we all know, and as many of us live, an ideal world with ideal situations don't much exist. Here's what I DO know. I'm a good person. Knowing me will not harm my daughter in any way that I can control. I firmly believe that children are as confused as the adults around them. The reality of my daughter's life is that she has a Mom and that she has me. As long as her Mom and I are a united front in her life and her story, I think she'll be a better person because of it.

Easy to say now when she's only seventeen months though...

2. Is Closed truly harmful for a child?

I don't think it's that it's truly harmful per se....I really don't. I was on board to have an open adoption and was talked out of it, so clearly I didn't think it was something that would harm my daughter! BUT, I think it does have the opportunity to make things harder, as we often see with adoptees that are searching today.

3. Are parents involved in an OA more "worthy" or viewed as the only ones having their children's best interests at heart better than those who are not in an OA? (applies to both aparents & bparents)

I think parents need to do what's going to be best for them and for their family. I also think they need to take into account the role of their adopted child in the family and consider what they truly believe is in that child's best interest. I respect a couple that know their capabilities in adoption and choose that CA is best for them FAR MORE than a couple that goes blindly into an OA for a shorter wait time only to close the adoption on any level once the reality of the situation kicks in.

I'm not going to judge worthiness of parents, that's most certainly not my place. If parents choose CA then they have a reason and that doesn't necessarily make them suspect in my eyes! Although, in the interest of COMPLETE disclosure, there are reasons I hear about seeking CA that make me want to roll my eyes. I'm sorry, I can't help it. It's the things like "Well if it's not closed then the bmom may come back to steal the baby!!" I'm not rolling my eyes at valid reasons

4. Do we push more for OA and if so...what are the main reasons we do so?

Considering that I was someone that was pushed into an OA, I suppose my answer is going to have to be yes! I was pushed into an OA because that's what DD's Mom wanted. She'd done a lot of research and that was her "greatest hope" for A. Who was I to say no to that?? This woman was telling me it was going to be what was best for this perfect little baby I had just brought into this world! Well of course I wanted the best for her! And if OA was it, then I was, albeit slightly reluctantly, on board. After that I did my own research, read my own books, and saw the light...it made sense. Although I'd be lying if I didn't say that there are still days where it scares the heck outta me...where I'd like to crawl under the covers that I thought CA would provide. But here we are, and here I shall stay.

In general? I think there are a lot of reasons OA is pushed for - some are good, and I think some are bad. I think some aren't pure reasons, that some are even unethical. I think OA should definitely be an option that is discussed, and that education is provided for - to BOTH parties.

Okay, and now I catch up and actually participate!

[BrockBaby]

Concerning Open Adoptions I think thanksgivingmom said it well when she said, "I think in an ideal world with ideal situations, yes" And we all have to agree that we do not live in an ideal world. There are many reasons why open adoptions are good, but there can be as many reasons as why they might not be such a good idea. As an adoption community, we have to come to an understanding that not only is each situation different, but the people involved brings their own "character" to the situation as well.

As an adoptee, who did grow up in a closed adoption, I have to say that looking at it from the other side of reunion, it was best for me that I was involved in a closed adoption. I know that we can't completely know for sure, because my bmom may have made better choices in life had she had known where I was, ect. But there is no guarentee of that either. In life there are no guarentees, and we each must make the decisions to do what we feel is best for ourselves and the people in our care. It is so hard to know what is the best for a child when there are so many aspects to consider. What I do know though, is being honest and truthful is always the best when you are talking about adoption with a child. Children are more aware of things then many adults like to think.

I also want to say something that might not be very popular. Sometimes, I think we get so wrapped up on what is PC, what is the best for the child, what is best of this, what is the best for that....but there are things in life, where it is impossible to know what is best when it is started. Experiences and Life happens...and that often changes what is best. And to be honest, no one lives this life with having "all the best things" happen to them. And while we need to try to make positive changes, no change is a cure-all for all. And there will always be people who have A happen to them, and wish they had B happen to them. And then, those who had B will have wanted A. And then, there will be those who say I am glad that A happened to me, and that B happened to you. I guess one thing that I try to do with my own life, is to take what has happened to me, let it grow me, stretch me, and make me into the unique person I am because of it. We can debate for days on what is best....but who are we to REALLY say what is best for another person??

[loveajax]

Brock, thank you for your post, esp that last paragraph...that is exactly what I wanted to say. I mean, seriously, how the heck do I know whether OA is "best" or not for my DD right now. Also, how do I know that she will think it is "best"...what if she thinks it is horrible when she is 12, but when she is 40 she appreciates it. I am just laughing that the things I "hated" the most about my parents when I was younger are the things I respect in them most now. So you are right....it's prob impossible to say "best"...it just is experience.

[BrockBaby]

loveajax...you are welcome, just sharing my little opinions..lol! It is so true though, things that I "hated" about my parents as a kid, I understand now and even appreciate (gasp!). The thing with adoption issues though, is that it runs deeper then some issues of childhood....KWIM? But still....how do we KNOW what is best?!

[BestLight]

I'm late to this conversation, but I want to add that my DD's firstmom and I are teaching a class about OA through our local free university (which is neither "free"
nor a "university," lol).

Our first offering is at the end of May.

What would you want to see in such a class?

[Hadley2]

OA is definitely being pushed, and pushed strongly and in legally binding ways, in many corners of the foster world.

I think some of this has to do with a genuine (as in well intended), follow-the-trend, be on the cutting edge, in our society "more open"--honest, sunny, light, cheery--just sounds better and healthier than "closed"--secretive, dark, dank, sad--belief on the part of workers, agencies, courts, and policy makers.

I think some of it has to do with a truly intelligent recognition that it can be an option that can be beneficial for the child in some situations depending on how it is handled.

However, it has also clearly become a tool for saving the state time, money, and legal effort. Mediation between a relative or fp frightened by the prospect of an unsafe RU and parents frightened by the prospect of closed doors or desperate for some sense of control and pride is easily manipulated and takes only a tiny fraction of a fraction of the time and cost associated with putting on a TPR trial and appeals.

When relatives are involved, many states skip over TPR and adoption altogether, dumping open custody cases and irate parents on anxious relatives. Same principle--short cut the hard work and dump the open (pardon the pun) issues that drive up cost on the new caregivers.

So, yes, I do think that currently it is pushed in more places than not as a one-size-fits-all binding straightjacket of a solution.

As for how we as the adoption community think about it, I do feel that it would be very helpful and productive, since relationships and life situations are so fluid and changing, that the definition of "open" be quite a bit broader, more inclusive, more fluid, and less judgmental than I've often seen on these boards.

[mom2justynsarah]

Just curious to see where people stand on a few things in general...

1. Is OA truly better for a child? Who really knows..We have gone through some trials and tribulations with Sarahs birthmom, so now we have shifted to semi open. So now we send pictures every 3 months and accept phone calls.

I am very grateful we have met her birth family as I have a greater sense as to who my daughter is. I know my parenting skills love/environment have a big impact on how she is influenced, and how she feels about herself. But genetics play a MAJOR role (more than I could have thought) as to who she really is. In other words, although my child is not being raised by her birth parents, they still remain inside of her. Am I making sense??

2. Is Closed truly harmful for a child? Depends on the child and circumstances. Some adoptees are traumatized, and others are just fine.

3. Are parents involved in an OA more "worthy" or viewed as the only ones having their children's best interests at heart better than those who are not in an OA? (applies to both aparents & bparents)
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