[aclee]

I agree with all that. I'm thinking one other thing, that I want to write here. I'm NOT justifying anything, I'm just, as an amom trying to figure out why there might be a reason *I* would act this way.

Beyond what I wrote before, if I try to wiggle my toes into her shoes, this what I imagine feeling.

Confusion. I'm confused because I know what it feels like when I'm the "only" Mom. That was great, and I know that could change now, and I'm scared. I'm also upset and confused with myself because who am I kidding, I know I agreed to an open adoption. I'm going to try to avoid the issues, because telling the person that placed her child with me (in agreement with an open adoption) that I don't want contact would be wrong. I don't want to do the wrong thing, but the right thing right now, is confusing and scarey, so I don't want or know how to do that right now too. I want to protect what has been built in the last years for as long as I can while still pretending to myself that I'm living up to the promises I made. Sometimes doing what is RIGHT is not easy. Sometimes doing what we want is more appealing, so we procrastinate doing the right thing as long as we can.

Honestly it sounds like like this lady is scared, and unsure, or maybe very very selfish. Either way, if she hasn't told you that she DOESN'T want you to pursue the open adoption that you all agreed on, then you should. I'm not saying cut her out of the loop. I'm saying keep her politely informed, but make a more active route toward more direct contact with your daughter unless she explicitly tells you why, or not to. I think she's stalling because she's scared, or this is something she doesn't want, but doesn't want to tell you she doesn't want it either. For your own sanity, you have the right to know.

[RavenSong]

Oh, Brown, I am so sorry you're going thru this right now. I don't have any words of wisdom, but I do know about doing that "birthmother dance". It feels like walking on eggshells...I hated it.

It's always really difficult to deal with someone who behaves in a passive-aggressive manner. It can really screw up communications and relationships...

[browneyes0707]

LOL TG, you can stand in anytime I'm off

(Seriously, you know my story)

Aclee, to answer your questions, all those things I have addressed. We didn't end contact as much as it drifted off, me being still a teen and scared and not sure of my role, a-mom not really knowing how to proceed and not wanting to overwhelm me, it just sort of ended. OA was still a new concept in society, never mind for us. And it was that way for 12 years. But she said if that happened I could come looking for them and she would always hold the door open.

In a year and a half now, I have been VERY consistant. One of the reasons I am so consistant and I am very worried to just walk away is so that I don't look unreliable. I'm not a child anymore, I am comitted to this, and I have both reassured a-mom of this and backed up my words with actions. I'm not sure how much longer I have to prove myself, honestly I feel shouldn't have to after this amount of time, but if she felt I needed longer, then heck, whatever, just tell me what I need to do.

I get the whole "only" mom thing in theory, but I'm not looking to fill a motherly role here. I'm not her everyday parent, this I know. I'm not looking to coparent, I'm looking to rebuild a relationship. SO no, my presence won't change that, she will always be her "Only" mom. These are again, things I have said and I have again, backed it up with action. Right now I'm not even looking for a relationship with DD. I have been told that she intends on honoring her promises. Being her "only" mom is not an excuse for not following through on her end. It's not an excuse to say one thing and do another. And no, she isn't living up to a lot of her promises. That's the problem.

It's interesting, it sounds like you are saying that for her not to follow up, it makes her scared about my intentions and makes her confused about her role, and that is to be expected, but my not following up makes me possibly "disconnected" and therefore maybe shouldn't have contact. What is the difference? Both will affect DD negatively. I'm not thrilled about the double standard, and I'd like to work through it, but I'm not given a chance.

And Oceans, to answer your questions, these issues came to the forefront when I asked about sending a card, but I've noticed them a bit since DD found out we were in contact.

[zxczxcasdasd]

totally random question that I can't believe I don't know the answer to, but...is there a dad? I always here you mention amom, but is she the only one?

Also, you have said before that DD has several adopted siblings, none of whom have open adoptions or positive bparent stories (I think I remember you saying this...I could be wrong). It may be that with the kids all older and more aware than when they were all young, and part of DD's reticence may be some sort of solidarity with her silblings, not wanting to have a different situation that they can't have, or just having picked up on the bparents=bad vibe in general.
Of course, none of this addresses amom's conduct. We could guess all day why, but it's impossible to know. Suffice it to say, whatever she may be struggling with (and I understand the struggle- I really do), it's just wrong to say one thing and do another, to make promises you don't intend to keep, to evade and ignore, to dismiss and placate.

I'm with the group voting for a cheerful accepting of her (implied) invitation to call. I think email can keep you not entirely real, still removed and is easy to misinterpre t or put off replying. Let her hear you SAY what you've been saying all along, but let her hear you say it. I'm hoping it might make a difference.

Also, when you ask a question on the phone, it's a totally different thing than asking in an email.

[lahdh4]

I wish, wish that I had answers for you but I don't.
The only thing I have is (((HUGS))).

[browneyes0707]

Heidi:

No there is a dad in the picture, LOL! I don't talk about him much since most of the contact has always been between a-mom and I. We've talked, but not since we have reconnected. I am open to speaking with him, but I don't know where he stands, or how involved in this he wants to be.

I know there is no answer here. Right now I'm just trying to collect my thoughts and get some distance. I do want to call, but it's hard when I just e-mailed her that I would not call without a heads up. Plus I think I'm too emotionally riled up for a constructive talk right now. But I am going to do it. I think it can only help. But I am CHICKEN too

[loveajax]

Brown, I love that Dad is nowhere to be found. My DH and DD"s birth dad literally have ZERO communication with any of us in all of this. It drives me bonkers because all the hard emotional work is between two women. As usual, women are the stronger sex!!

I really do think you should call when you feel ready. I think a mom is a bit passive aggressive and as you mentioned in another post probably not "up" on a lot of stuff, etc., and you need to be a little more "confrontational" (in the nice way only you can do!). But you know what I mean.

Do you need a glass of wine?

[aspenhall]

I too tried to put myself in the amoms shoes, as far as what would make me do this...and I came up with some of the same things aclee wrote...but also...what if she is getting resistance from the DD or the Dad...and so she says what she wants but then is caught between her relationship with you and her relationship with the dad...he wants less contact and fights her when she wants to email you...etc...

I know I want WAY more openess with dd's bmom than my dh does...and all the time he gets upset at how long my emails are and how many questions I ask...Bmom never answers them anyway...but still...it could be that sort of conflict. Also she may be feeling pressure from outside family members...with the whole..give an inch and they'll take a yard argument...It does sound like she is scared...and even if YOU don't see yourself as the "other mom" if your b-dd sees you this way, and it causes friction then I can see amom being hesitant and pulling away...even though SHE may want the contact.
Plus, I can see why direct communication with b-dd would worry her, after SO LONG without any. I think, maybe you need to just email her with a date/time that will work for you and then call her...explain to her what you've explained to us, tell her how you feel. Perhaps try to reach the dad, and ask him to shed light on her contradictory behavior.

I'd bet anything that SOMETHING is scaring her...I just don't know what....but something is...

ONE LAST THING..... Knowledge is power....so subconciously she may feel hesitant to give you "power" and not realize even why she feels the way she does about emailing you back with info about DD's life. That being said...she may just feel very on the spot having to come up with what's going on...OR...she may feel guilty that she really ISN'T interested in your life...I know it was really hard to relate to my sister even, after I was married and she was still single...I didn't care about the things she cared about..and communication was strained for years...even though we had a GREAT relationship...

[thanksgivingmom]

Originally Posted by loveajax

Do you need a glass of wine?

Since Brown gave me full permission to answer on her behalf, I will say that yes, she needs a glass of wine

Still doing a good job being your PR person Brown??

[aclee]

and that is completely understandable. I just want to say that I took the time to write those posts to you in support of you and the problems you are up against. I was trying to help you think of some of the issues that might be causing amom to give you the run around. For you to have read all that and to come out with:


"It's interesting, it sounds like you are saying that for her not to follow up, it makes her scared about my intentions and makes her confused about her role, and that is to be expected, but my not following up makes me possibly "disconnected" and therefore maybe shouldn't have contact. What is the difference? Both will affect DD negatively. I'm not thrilled about the double standard, and I'd like to work through it, but I'm not given a chance."

That paragraph right there? I makes me want to cry and ask myself why I even bother. I never implied that YOU were disconnected. If you don't like the term fine, but I referred to *A* disconnect, as in two or more people who are not longer connecting or communicating. I never referenced any one person as disconnected or distant. I also never said that her disconnect vs your disconnect was any different, or should be thought of differently. I didn't even know who, how or why it happened the first time so I was suggesting A) if you just walked away the 1st time with no warning or communication then maybe she was scared it would happen again. OR B) if communication broke down, or failed on their end, maybe she was hoping that if she did that again you would "go away". I can't honestly find anywhere where I said anything even remotely like there was any reason you shouldn't have contact. I think I encouraged you to make contact and skip over amom didn't I? Even you did walk away all on your own before, you still have the right to clearer contact than you are getting now.

I also don't see anywhere where I justified or rationalized what she was doing or feeling was correct? I was trying to help you solve a problem. Suggestions and ideas do not equal an excuse.

I was attempting to be supportive...believe me, I wasn't trying to set a double standard or rationalize in anyway that what was happening was correct or right, I was just trying to give you more ideas to see if there might have been something you hadn't thought of, that you could say/do to ease her mind and move forward toward the relationship you want. That's all.

Good Luck!

[browneyes0707]

aclee:

I think you took what I said the wrong way. I understand you were trying to help. I was just trying to clear up some of my story so that you understood. Part of it might be my fault, because for some reason I can't believe that my DD's amom would think that way. It's possible that she does, I don't know. I know you dont know my story as much as others here do.

Maybe I read it wrong, but I thought that by "disconnect" you were implying that you were referencing the years I was not in contact. The main reason why I was not was because I bought into the stereotype that I had no place in their life after placement. I also felt that I needed to be committed and a positive influence in DD's life to be in it, and at 20 years old (the age I was when we drifted off) I was still figuring out who I was. I attempted a reconnect when I was 110% certain that I could committ to the relationship with full heart. I have explained that to DD's a-mom already, and I am doing what ever I can to back that up with actions. I want to explain that to you so that you know where I am coming from too, since you replied to my post. You (and everyone else that reads this) deserves to know the whole picture before responding. So that is why I offer this info

I know you are encouraging me to "skip over a-mom", but you know, as much as that might make life easier, we are still talking about a 16 year old who has told her a-mom she is not ready for direct contact. I would not do that out of respect for both DD, and her a-mom who has offered me the chance to work on a relationship. And that is what I'm trying to do. I know you are trying to offer me insight, and believe me, there is some great insight on this thread and I appreciate all of it. If I came across defensive, it is because I am too emotionally invested, hence why I am asking for objective opinion. I'm not attacking you. I guess I dont want to believe that there is a component of fear here. Which is silly, I'm terrified as I build this relationship.

Keep it coming y'all. I hear you and it's great stuff

PS: Love, I got the wine

[aclee]

Brown-
No problem, I was sorta grouchy last night anyway. I just wanted to make it clear that even though I was "just" another amom, I am very much on your side. What is happening here isn't right for anyone involved.

Since I'm still cranky (I have a 2 month old, so I'm totally entitled to be very cranky when ever I want) I want to comment on a few things you just wrote.

Again, when I said disconnect, I just meant it as a verb, not as a description of you or anyone else. Physically (and emotionally and all that) the three side of the triad were not connecting. You seem ready to make that your fault which I think is sort of horse doodies (TG you may edit that if needed). There were TWO parties who committed to an open adoption, and to be honest, if she committed to an open adoption with a 20 year old, she should have been ready to be the more adultish person in that process. If we made an adoption plan with someone that young, I would know and be ready for the fact that most of the might be my responsibility. Like you said, I don't know most of your story, but I want to make it clear, and I hope you also feel that the disconnect that happened was shared at least 50-50.

In telling you to skip over amom, I'm still encouraging you to do that. What amom is saying your daughter said, and feels is getting in the middle of everything. Not only can you not be sure about the authenticity of such communication, but clearly what your daughter would say to her amom about her bmom could be "tainted" not only by her own emotions toward amom, but amom's emotions, and by a million other things, even if she DID say that to amom. I personally would want to hear that from daughter herself before I was willing to put off more years of building this relationship only through amom. Does that make any sense? I realize that your daughter is 16, legally still a minor etc. I also realize that 12 years are gone, and clearly you understand that you can only get those back to a certain extent. I would hate for you to wait two more long years, and then have your daughter either say that she never said that to amom, or that she only said it because she was afraid to hurt amom, or didn't want amom in the middle of her communication with you. At 16 she maybe very independent, and want to communicate with you herself. I know at 16 I wanted that with MY mom (my parents divorced so it was a little different) but I got really upset when I heard about my mom via my step-mom (who I also called mom, she raised me). As an angry 16 year old I did want more than communication from my mom, I wanted her to prove it, and fight for me and show me I was important.

Just as a reminder...all that was stuff about ME as an angry 16 year old...I'm not implying that is what your daughter is feeling, I'm just saying, she might want to do it on her own, and doesn't want communication through her amom, and amom is taking that as she isn't' ready for communication. Now for all I know amom and daughter sat down and had a real heart to heart about this, and she really isn't' ready for communication. Regardless, I personally would want, in a non threatening or confrontational way to hear it from her. I"m sure I'm preaching to the choir here though, and you would rather hear it from her too. I think you've been very respectful with amom for 1.5 years. I think now if your daughter isn't ready for communication to continue or move forward, you and amom should try to find a way that she can tell you that herself, so she can start to "own" her part of the triad, rather than feeling like she doesn't.

Make any sense? I know 18 is legal etc, but the triad is made of 3 pieces not 2, showing her she can "own" her piece of the triangle (whether you like the answer or not) is something that should happen sooner rather than later if possible.

I understand not wanting to step on toes, and to be respectful, and to include amom. From what I can see you've done that, and more.

Originally Posted by browneyes0707

aclee:

I think you took what I said the wrong way. I understand you were trying to help. I was just trying to clear up some of my story so that you understood. Part of it might be my fault, because for some reason I can't believe that my DD's amom would think that way. It's possible that she does, I don't know. I know you dont know my story as much as others here do.

Maybe I read it wrong, but I thought that by "disconnect" you were implying that you were referencing the years I was not in contact. The main reason why I was not was because I bought into the stereotype that I had no place in their life after placement. I also felt that I needed to be committed and a positive influence in DD's life to be in it, and at 20 years old (the age I was when we drifted off) I was still figuring out who I was. I attempted a reconnect when I was 110% certain that I could committ to the relationship with full heart. I have explained that to DD's a-mom already, and I am doing what ever I can to back that up with actions. I want to explain that to you so that you know where I am coming from too, since you replied to my post. You (and everyone else that reads this) deserves to know the whole picture before responding. So that is why I offer this info

I know you are encouraging me to "skip over a-mom", but you know, as much as that might make life easier, we are still talking about a 16 year old who has told her a-mom she is not ready for direct contact. I would not do that out of respect for both DD, and her a-mom who has offered me the chance to work on a relationship. And that is what I'm trying to do. I know you are trying to offer me insight, and believe me, there is some great insight on this thread and I appreciate all of it. If I came across defensive, it is because I am too emotionally invested, hence why I am asking for objective opinion. I'm not attacking you. I guess I dont want to believe that there is a component of fear here. Which is silly, I'm terrified as I build this relationship.

Keep it coming y'all. I hear you and it's great stuff