[msdesi]

I admit I didn't know which category to put this topic but chose here because it closely relates to this thread also placed here:

Bmoms did you feel coerced to place your child?

Ok first a little background. When I was pregnant and thinking about adoption, I was still very unsure and communicated this to the agency. At one point, the social worker at the agency asked me if I wanted to talk to another woman who had placed. I said sure and she gave me a phone #. She told me this woman was near my age which was 18.

So I called her...and first of all she is not sounding like any 18yo I've met before or since. Too mature. But another thing to make me suspicious was that her answers sounded SO contrived and adoption positive. In fact, she sounded EXACTLY like the social worker at the agency. For example, I ask her if she was sad to lose her baby and said something like..."It was hard to say goodbye, but I knew when I chose adoption that I was doing the right thing for my child." See what I mean? It's like she was scripted. 3rd suspicious thing...when I told the agency I thought for sure I was changing my mind, this woman actually called my home but I knew I didn't give her my #. She claimed I did give her my # but I know I didn't.

I'm thinking possible agency plant? I know that sounds a little conspiracy theory but this woman sounded like an adoption commercial. Did anyone else have a similar experience?

[BrandyHagz]

Its important to remember that not everyone shares your feelings about adoption and also that not everyone who placed feels the same way about the placement.

No, it doesn't sound like an agency plant - it sounds like someone who has a different opinion. Heck, it could have been me (except I didn't place at 18) - because that is exactly how I felt and still feel.

I placed for the right reasons - and I know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that I did the right thing for my children, both the one I placed and the one I was parenting when I placed her.

[msdesi]

Originally Posted by BrandyHagz

Its important to remember that not everyone shares your feelings about adoption and also that not everyone who placed feels the same way about the placement.

No, it doesn't sound like an agency plant - it sounds like someone who has a different opinion. Heck, it could have been me (except I didn't place at 18) - because that is exactly how I felt and still feel.

I placed for the right reasons - and I know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that I did the right thing for my children, both the one I placed and the one I was parenting when I placed her.

I know everyone is not feeling the same. It was just a weird conversation. Not any of the uncertainty and pausing to answer or mixed feelings...you know like how someone sounds when they're reading a book? At first I think I'm too paranoid but I was talking to my husband and he agrees it sounds a little off. That's why I was asking if anyone else ever had this kind of conversation.

It wasn't just what she said...it was what she said put together with other things. Like that she knew my phone # when I KNOW I didn't give it to her and conveniently called the day after I told the agency I think for sure I've changed my mind. It was her voice that was much too mature for 18. Just one of these things would not have been suspicious...it was putting it all together along with the conversation.

[SchmennaLeigh]

Was it shortly after she placed? I was very happy and positive in that first year before Munchkin's first birthday. Beyond that, some people ARE happy with placement. Some aren't.

An agency isn't going to offer to let you talk to someone who says, "They were coercive and unethical." It's not in THEIR best interest. If they have a firstmom who is happy with their services, she's going to be their spokesperson.

[msdesi]

Originally Posted by SchmennaLeigh

Was it shortly after she placed? I was very happy and positive in that first year before Munchkin's first birthday. Beyond that, some people ARE happy with placement. Some aren't.

I think she was saying 3 months since placement.

Originally Posted by SchmennaLeigh

An agency isn't going to offer to let you talk to someone who says, "They were coercive and unethical." It's not in THEIR best interest. If they have a firstmom who is happy with their services, she's going to be their spokesperson.

Lol so true. I didn't expect to get an unhappy woman on the phone. I also didn't expect to get someone who was sometimes literally repeating word-for-word some of the things the social worker at the agency told me. I suppose it could've been a real birthmom who was happy with the service but they still scripted her so she could sound her best. And I can't get past her knowing my # for calling me back when I didn't give it to her. Like I said she kept insisting I gave it to her but I didn't. She should've covered better and said the "the agency gave it to me so I could continue to give you support." or something like that. Lol I think she needed a lying education class. Or she could've said she got it from caller ID. That wouldn't been as good though. In 1993 caller ID and *69 weren't as heavily used but even just supposing she had caller ID...what birthmom would ever feel it's ok to make an unsolicited call in this way? Would you? I told my husband and he's not the type to spare my feelings...he even said "Yeah. That does sound strange."

It's all speculation now but I was wondering how many agencies have this type of service for when they need help closing the deal.

[Boulderbabe]

I'm not a birthmother, and I don't have any experience with private agencies. (I'm an adoptive mom, and I adopted via DSS). But I am an anthropologist, and I've interviewed hundreds of people, so maybe this might apply:

I've found that a lot of times, people who are unsure of their own thoughts and feelings, or who are trying to convince themselves of something, rely on "scripts" that they get from other people or organizations. I interview a lot of employees, and you'd be amazed at how many people say things that are almost verbatim from company publications. But those people think they're using their own words to express their own ideas! Because their own feelings or thoughts are ambivalent, they sometimes have a hard time formulating them, and so rely on pre-formulated words given to them by the firm. I've seen students do it, too----they aren't sure in their own perspectives, and want to please, so they take on the professor's words and present them as their own opinions.

I wonder if this woman wasn't a plant, but was somebody who was insecure and ambivalent, and trying very hard to convince herself that she did the right thing. (And she may have---I'm not saying placing was right or wrong, only that she may have been very conflicted about it). That may account for why she was using "social worker talk."

I wouldn't be surprised if the agency gave her your number, though.

[Leigh131313]

Another thought..

When people ask me anything regarding adoption, I can almost guaruntee I've answered that exact question at least 30 times. So, eventually it DOES become a script, kwim? It's like you have your programmed answer all ready to go..

[msdesi]

Originally Posted by Boulderbabe

I've found that a lot of times, people who are unsure of their own thoughts and feelings, or who are trying to convince themselves of something, rely on "scripts" that they get from other people or organizations. I interview a lot of employees, and you'd be amazed at how many people say things that are almost verbatim from company publications. But those people think they're using their own words to express their own ideas! Because their own feelings or thoughts are ambivalent, they sometimes have a hard time formulating them, and so rely on pre-formulated words given to them by the firm. I've seen students do it, too----they aren't sure in their own perspectives, and want to please, so they take on the professor's words and present them as their own opinions.

I wonder if this woman wasn't a plant, but was somebody who was insecure and ambivalent, and trying very hard to convince herself that she did the right thing. (And she may have---I'm not saying placing was right or wrong, only that she may have been very conflicted about it). That may account for why she was using "social worker talk."

I wouldn't be surprised if the agency gave her your number, though.

Excellent point!!! I didn't think of it this way.

I was approaching it from a Sales point of view. I've been in sales all my adult life, starting as a telemarketer and eventually working my way up to real estate. I was thinking how often phony "customer testimonials" are used to help close a deal. For example, when I was selling timeshares, we were encouraged to fill out post cards that were supposed to have come from happy buyers. We would put them in the back of our presentation folder and remark about them towards the end of the sales pitch. If we had ever let the potential buyers inspect them closely they would've seen there were no postmarks, but we never took them out of the plastic pouch in the folder. It was really just a means of reassurance and you'd be surprised how often this works.

I guess I wondered if she was the agency's closer.

[Scarlet Moon 13]

Originally Posted by SchmennaLeigh

Was it shortly after she placed? I was very happy and positive in that first year before Munchkin's first birthday. Beyond that, some people ARE happy with placement. Some aren't.

An agency isn't going to offer to let you talk to someone who says, "They were coercive and unethical." It's not in THEIR best interest. If they have a firstmom who is happy with their services, she's going to be their spokesperson.

Exactly, they aren't going to want you to talk to someone who regrets giving up a child. Or found that only a couple of months later everything changed and they could have easily parented their baby.

[InBlindFaith]

I went through an Agency. I never had a negative experience with the Agency I chose. It felt like the right one in my heart. They were the ones who told me I was allowed to see and hold my baby, receive pictures up to 6 weeks and receive one letter from the A-parents if I wanted. It never occured to me to ask for those things!! They were honest and upfront with me.

The problems I had were the people outside of the adoption agency.

[msdesi]

Originally Posted by InBlindFaith

It felt like the right one in my heart.

This is going to a little off the original topic I posted. But see, this is exactly what I wish I wouldn't have done in retrospect. Listen to my heart. Now don't get me wrong, I mean no disrespect and I'm glad that worked out for you, but in my case my worst decisions have come from following my heart. I get better results when I apply cool hard logic.

My HEART was telling me I wasn't in a position to raise a child. My HEART was telling me the couple I met would be better for my daughter. My HEART was wrong. I could give many example other than the adoption where my HEART got me in trouble. Feelings are deceptive. Logic never is. If I had sat down and made a list of my obstacles to parenting and then tried to find possible solutions, I think my decision would've been different. ~~~~sigh~~~~ Would've, could've, should've.

That's why I'm not ever telling anyone to listen to heart or intuition. I'm usually advising to make a list of pros and cons. This is only speaking for myself.

[lilifelover]

Yes, I was given the option to talk to other birthmothers from the agency as well...but I have since gotten to know these girls and I know that their pro-adoption stance is genuine. They were very honest about their feelings and a lot of "I knew it was the right thing" came up, but at the same time they did admit it was hard and they have all had second thoughts.

I have since been asked to counsel other parents considering a placement (we call them prospectives) and I am honest, direct and give my account of what happened. I try not to slant them one way or the other so that their decision is their own...because I would hate for someone to come back and say "I placed/I didn't place because you convinced me of it." It's just not fair to them.
Anyway, I think you just need to gather as many facts as you can, check your sources and make the decision for yourself instead of letting family, friends or the "all powerful" agency do it for you. I say that now...but remember I've already been through a placement...and I'll be the first one to admit I followed almost none of this advice when I was going through all this.
Hope I can help someone else in the same position.

[Jordan's bmom]

The agency I went thru had me meet another girl about my age, 18, and talk to her about her recent relinquishment. She also sounded like an adoption commercial. After my placement the tables were turned and my social worker asked me to speak with yet another young girl who was considering adoption. Although she didn't tell me what to say, she said things like. "I asked you to do this because you have been so brave and truly wanted the best for your baby. You can be an inspiration to this young lady. And you'll be assuring that her child gets everything it deserves" I did talk to the girl, but I couldn't bring myself to sell adoption. I told her of my situation and said honestly if my mom would support me I don't know if I'd have gone through with it. But, since I didn't have a clue how to support myself let alone me and a baby, I thought I did the right thing. I remember her main reason for looking into adoption was parental pressure and the fact that her boyfriend had dumped her. For the most part we just sat and looked at one another. I don't know what she decided. I haven't thought of her for a long time until your post started me thinking.

[Scarlet Moon 13]

Originally Posted by Jordan's bmom

The agency I went thru had me meet another girl about my age, 18, and talk to her about her recent relinquishment. She also sounded like an adoption commercial. After my placement the tables were turned and my social worker asked me to speak with yet another young girl who was considering adoption. Although she didn't tell me what to say, she said things like. "I asked you to do this because you have been so brave and truly wanted the best for your baby. You can be an inspiration to this young lady. And you'll be assuring that her child gets everything it deserves" I did talk to the girl, but I couldn't bring myself to sell adoption. I told her of my situation and said honestly if my mom would support me I don't know if I'd have gone through with it. But, since I didn't have a clue how to support myself let alone me and a baby, I thought I did the right thing. I remember her main reason for looking into adoption was parental pressure and the fact that her boyfriend had dumped her. For the most part we just sat and looked at one another. I don't know what she decided. I haven't thought of her for a long time until your post started me thinking.

My first son was born in Feb, 16 days after my 16th birthday, 2/29/64, leap year. I had to beg the doctor to let me see my own child. He went home with the adoptive parents at 3 days old. They never allowed me to hold him.

I met a young man the 4 months later and asked him to give me a baby. I missed my son so much I thought another baby would take the pain away. We married 3 days after my 17th birthday. My little girl was born barely 9 months after my son's 1st birthday.

My 3rd and last child was born when I was 19. A friend I hadn't seen in a couple of years came to visit.

She was unmarried and pregnant. I acutally tired to convince her that adoption was best, that she shouldn't raise a child by herself. That it was wrong.

Before the evening was over, I was hysterical, and told her to do whatever she needed to do to keep her baby.

That the pain of losing your child was more then the hardship of raising a baby alone. She kept her baby. She has never been sorry a day in her life.

That I was spouting the rhetoric that the lawyer, the doctor and my own mother had brainwashed me into believing horrified me. I now know I was jealous that she being 19 was "old" enough to keep her baby.

For years I felt that way. It wasn't until I realize that I had been always been capable of raising my child. I would have needed help, that is a fact. That I was too young is a fact, that I was able, was also a fact. After all, I did it, a year & 9 months later, with a husband.

Adoption is a long term answer to a short time problem for many young girls.

I don't think teens should be having sex, nor should they have babies young. But not every young girl should be talked into giving away her baby. Just as not every young teen should keep a baby either.

44 years later, it still hurts like hell. Even with a wonderful reunion. He was 33 when I found him.

There was no threapy in the 1960s or 70s, you went home and tried to forget it ever happened. No one talked to you about it.

No matter the reason that an angency uses, giving only one side of the birth mother equation, is a type of coercion. No matter how nicely they say it.

[BoxerLady6]

Originally Posted by msdesi

I think she was saying 3 months since placement.

IMO 3 months isn't engough time to form your own opinions on placing which is probably why she sounded scripted. She was just saying back what the agency said to her.
I know honestly 3 months after placing my daughter I would have no idea what to say to someone wanting to place. 7 years later I know what I would say but I think it takes time to process to understand how you feel.