[mom2justynsarah]

.... and I don't feel the same way

I do NOT want to cut off contact any time soon. His thought is to cut off contact once our daughter is a year old. She is now 5 months old.

His reasoning is that she is our daughter. She is growing up with us, and he doesn't want to cause her confusion with her birthfamily in the mix.

A lot of family members & friends agree with him. In fact, our friends who adopted their daughter using the same facillitator, agree too. The adoptive father keeps telling us to cut off contact now!!

I am in complete disagreement. Am I missing something here? Am I crazy? I don't think that is necessary at all. First of all, they live in California. We are in S. Florida. Right now, we contact one another through phone calls and or letters. Then "D" takes periodic breaks for a few weeks or so.

At this point, all she is asking for is pictures and a possible visit now and then. She wants Sarah to have photo abums of her, her husband, and her siblings (birthmom's siblings) as children. Plus, she wants to send us pictures , poetry, letters etc.

Personally, I would feel terrible if I had to tell "D" we didn't want contact anymore. How do you do that to a birthmom? I don't know..it doesn't sit well with me.

As a birthmom- would you be very hurt if that happened to you? Would you understand and respect the adoptive parents' wishes? What would be a reasonable solution? I want to do the right thing for our daughter. What is the right thing?

Thanks & please remember that I do not intend to offend anyone or cause conflict.

Best Regards,
Julie

[BethanyB]

Did you have an agreement before you finalized the adoption? If so, I think it could be the WORST thing you could do to someone. (I'm not trying to be rude or hurtful, but you asked for opinions and this is mine.)

I'm not a birthmother but I can only imagine what this could do to someone. Imagine NEVER seeing your child again? How that would hurt - more hurtful than you could ever imagine! This woman would never know how her child was doing. Or what she looked like.

I'm sorry but it would be a terrible, terrible thing to do to someone. And if you promised these things and then cut off all contact, to me it would be unforgivable.

And what happens when your child grows up and wants to search for her birthmother? And then she finds her and hears all about what you did? How will she feel about you?

It sounds as though your husband is feeling scared and uncomfortable because of his own insecurities. I think he needs to read more about open adoptions and the benefits it can have in your child's life. He should also come on this site and listen to birthmothers and adoptees stories.

Please don't cut this birthmother out of your daughters life. Put yourself in this womans shoes. I hope you both make the right choice.

[BrandyHagz]

I have never understood the “they’ll be confused” argument…sorry, it just seems like a cop out to me. I’m not trying to be harsh or rude…just stating how I feel…maybe it’ll help, maybe it won’t.

I don’t know if you know me; my name is Brandy, I’m an adoptee and birthmom, both were and are open adoptions.

I was adopted in 1973 in a private, identified and open adoption. I had ongoing and extensive (even many overnight weekend visits) contact with my birthmother and her family.

From the time I could understand what was going on, until now, I’ve never been confused about P’s role in my life…she was my birthmother…plain and simple.

I do hear a lot of stories from adoptees raised in closed adoptions that indicate that they wouldn’t want it any other way…like them; I couldn’t imagine my adoption being any other way.

The one thing different for me is the knowledge of the unknown. It goes beyond names and medical information…it’s knowing the face and characteristics of the person who gave birth to you, but couldn’t parent you. Its knowing why they made the decision they did, above and beyond the typical “she did it because she loved you” or “she couldn’t care for you so she placed you with someone who could” stuff that is so common in adoption.

I had what most other adoptees placed in closed adoption didn’t have. I had the truth…straight from the horse’s mouth.

I had an amazing relationship with my maternal biological grandparents, specifically my grandfather.

I never fanaticized about who she was or what she was doing…I always knew.

I’d be lying if I said I didn’t think about what life would have been like if I had not been placed…I think many adoptees do…it’s the nature of the beast.

In the end…I knew exactly who everyone in my life was and exactly what role they played in relation to my life…I can’t imagine growing up any other way.

I hope that your husband can see past his needs and see the needs of your child instead. Adoption, especially open adoption, is nothing to be ashamed of…and it’s defiantly nothing to run from. This woman was instrumental in the creation of your family…she has given you her child to raise…I cant imagine a more disrespectful way to show your appreciation of her role in your families life than closing the open adoption you agreed to.

[BrandyHagz]

I forgot to mention, the highest rate of suicides among birthmothers occur after an agreed open adoption has been closed.

In fact, we lost a birthmother on this forum to suicide after the adoption of her daughter was closed.

As a birthmother in open adoption, I take great comfort in the ongoing contact I have with M’s parents. I am very respectful of their role as her parents and they are respectful of my role as her birthmother, as we should be.

Would I be hurt if they decided to close the adoption just because the C (adopted dad) wanted do? You darn skippy! I would not only be hurt…I’d be livid! How selfish!

Would I be angry? You bet!

Would I understand and respect the adoptive parents wishes? Nope…I wouldn’t…I wouldn’t trust them either…after all, they lied to me…I’d be scared to death of the damage they’d do to the child if it was so easy to walk away from an agreement they made with me just because they wanted to. Open adoption relationships aren’t disposable on a whim…

I do want to add, however, that I have always to S and C that if M ever indicated that this relationship wasn’t working out for her, that I would gladly step back…all they had to do was say the words. There is a HUGE difference in stopping contact because you want to and stopping contact because the child requests it.

Again, I’m not trying to be rude…but your husband needs to suck it up and honor the word that he gave five months ago…he might also want to look into some open adoption counseling (Maybe he could talk to Brenda Romanchik?) and read a book or two on openness in adoption. It sounds like he is giving in to peer pressure…I cant imagine making a life long decision based on how other people felt…

[mom2justynsarah]

Brandy,

I totally agree with you and Bethany. The weird part is my husband is an adoptee himself. So one would think he would be most sensitive about it than anyone else.

Sadly, he has an estranged relationship with his adoptive family. We haven't spoken to them in over 10 years. They have never met our son and our brand new baby girl.

Well, in any case, I would like to make myself perfectly clear here. Nothing is set in stone. I wouldn't allow it. I expected reply's to mimic my feelings as well. The reason for my post was to enlighten my husband. So, please NO husband bashing here. Remember that in email format, people can interpert things way different than the original poster intended.

God bless,
Julie

[BrandyHagz]

I also have an estranged relationship with my adoptive family, but it isn’t because of my birthfamily…its because they’re idjits.

Its possible that your husband is looking at this from the only experience he has…closed worked for him, so why not your daughter?

I really think the key here will be open adoption education…that’s really the only way he is going to be able to “think outside the box” of his own experiences.

In the end, anyone can justify the decision they are making…even if it isn’t the right one. Your husband is doing what any normal person would do, basing his opinions on his own experiences…I am guilty of that as well…but I think the only way you are going to change his mind is by educating him…by buying him books written by people who have done research and by allowing him to talk to others who have lived it…I’ll glad you PM you my phone number if you think it will help (No, I wont tell him to suck it up and stop being selfish…I promise )

There is no worse hurt for a birthmother than closing an adoption.

There will be no worse hurt for your husband than having to answer to your daughter in 18 years about why he did what he did.

That’s just to much pain…at least in my opinion.

He’s heard from the other side…so lets let him hear from us now

[Jensboys]

Julie - I would reiterate that calling Brenda is a BRILLIANT idea!!

Also, point out to your husband that one day, not only will he have to answer to your daughter's birthmom about lies or promises ignored, he will also have to answer to your daughter. What reason, what excuse, will make sense to your daughter, especially if she finds a birthmom devastated by the deception?

The way I explained it to my husband was this --- we send pictures, we have visits, we leave the kids with aunts/uncles/grandmas and grandpas. They have lots of relatives on both sides of the family they ADORE and see regularly. They know these people are special -- they know if we die, those same people will become their "parents" (as in God Parents). Not ever, not once, have our kids been confused as to who mommy or daddy is. Even with Aunty was the MOST FAVORITE person on the face of the earth -- she still wasnt "mommy".

I want my children to know me as a mother with integrity. That I respect and honor their birth family because it is a part of THEM. THEY are honorable and respectable, and as such I will honor and respect their first family.

On top of all that mushy / lovey dovey stuff the medical information we get through openness is invaluable. The knowing of where the talents and personalities come through is invaluable.

Honestly, ask your husband what will your daughter GAIN from contact -- the list is endless, the risks minimal. What will she lose from no contact - the risk is huge and the list is endless.

NOONE ever said that being a person of integrity was easy. NOONE ever said that openness didnt come with a whole lot of uncomfortable feelings. NOONE ever said that doing what was right was simpler than doing what was easy.

Its time like these that we really see past our fears, insecurities and inner secrets to see what we are really made of. I hope your husband makes the right choice. The consequences for him could be huge if he doesnt.

Jen

[faith2005]

I agree with every ones advise !! I can not give much on this my self but I am a birthmother and I know that if I was in an open adoption and they all the sudden told me that they wanted contact to end I would be wounded beyond measure !!
But like I said I dont have much advise to give on this but I will be keeping you in my prayers and thoughts. Hope that all works out for the best.

[BethanyB]

Julie, I sure don't want to bash your husband. But I think many people will feel the need to STRONGLY state their opinions on this because it is such an emotional issue. I agree with Brandy when she says that in breaking off open adoption agreements, people get VERY hurt. Sometimes hurt enough to commit sucide.

There are a lot of really angry birthparents out there who have been scr**ed by adoptive parents who lied and agreed to openess until the adoption was finalized and then totally cut the bparents off. I can't even image that happening.

What does your husband say when you mention this? Does he care? Does he have any explanations? Just not sure where he is coming from.

Oh, and you didn't answer the question about agreeing to openess. Did you? And if so, how on earth could you ever justify doing this? Did he plan on saying what he thought he needed to say in order to get a child, and plan on cutting contact all along? If not, why the change now?

And as far as friends and family agreeing with him...people who know nothing about adoption tend to think openess is CRAZY! Many people cannot even fathom be in contact with a birthparent.

When I first started my adoption journey, I never thought I would want an open adoption. But then I read books on it, and talked to people who convinced me what a wonderful thing it can be for your child. And now, sadly enough, I would LOVE to have openess with my son's bmom but she has disapeared and I'm not sure if she is coming back. Her son was taken from her by the state and I STILL feel bad for her in that she will never be able to know what her son looks like as he grows. She will never get letters telling her how he is doing. I feel like this even though she ran away. Even though she never expressed wanting this.

I also want to make it known that if both bparents and aparents join into a closed adoption agreement...I think that's fine. I don't expect everyone to share my beliefs on openess in adoption BUT I do not agree with agreeing to something and then not doing it. And it's not like it's some small thing you changed your mind on...it's a life! This woman entrusted you with her child! She trusted you to keep your word and do a good job raising this little girl. Is this how you want to repay her?

In your first post, it sounded like you wanted our opinion as to whether you are right or wrong in feeling the way that you do. But is it your intention to try and change your mind by showing your husband this thread? Just wanted clarification.

I hope that you don't feel that I was too harsh. Just trying to help. I just think your husband needs to try and put himself in this womans shoes. AND your daughters.
Good luck!

[wanttobeparents]

Julie,

Hopefully, if you look your husband directly in the eye and ask him how he plans to tell his daughter about this, he will stop and think about how she may view this in 18 years.

"Yes dear, we had a fully open adoption with your birthfamily, but I wanted to close it once you turned a year old. Um, why you ask? I thought you might be confused and not know who your parents are."

Trust me, there will be no explaination that will satisfy a teenage girl. Perhaps that will be enough to convince him not to close the adoption. If not, remind him that family medical history changes as the members grow older. Knowing what to look out for as your daughter grows will ease your mind.

Good luck.

Peggy

[Tigger27]

I also agree with everyone elses responses. I am currently only in a semi-open adoption, but thinking about broaching the subject of more openness with each of my daughter's afamilies.

I would be devasated and crushed, basically I would feel like someone had just shattered my world and my heart all over again if either or both of my afamilies told me yeah we feel we need to close the adoption now. I would have a very hard time understanding why they chose to close the adoption when in my situation, I think that we have such a great relationship. I would be crushed to think that they didn't want me in their life or want my bdaughter to know me anymore all of a sudden especially if it had been when either one of my bdaughter's had only been 5 months old.

I also agree with the others in thinking that perhaps your husband has some insecurities or something that should be discussed with a counselor or something. I along with the others don't think there's any good explanation you could give your daughter's bmom for closing the adoption. I'm not trying to be rude or anything like the others, just giving my thoughts on this from my perspective.

In fact, I will tell you this, with my 2 yr old and her aparents, there was a time when I thought they weren't going to keep in contact with me because I didn't have contact with them for quite a long period of time. They stopped sending me things after my now 2 yr old was 6-7 months old and the adoption had been finalized so I wondered if they were like well, the adoption's final, she's our daughter now so we don't need to keep in contact with her bmom, Anne anymore. I didn't receive anything from them for around 5-6 months or something - it was a long drought so to speak before they flooded me with pictures, long letter and gifts and then I've discovered they were just being sporatic with correspondence sometimes and constantly apologizing to me when they hadn't contacted me in a while. They had some health problems and things going on that were good reasons for not having contacted me, but during that time period when I knew nothing, I fell further into a very depressed, bitter, angry state then I had already been in because of feeling like they were cutting me out of the picture at that time after the adoption had been finalized when she was 6-7 months old. Of course, now that we have switched to doing e-mail and sending gifts to each other whenever we feel like it instead of only once or twice a year, they are much better with their correspondence and such with me now and I have begun to heal from things so I'm in a much better place now to enjoy correspondence through e-mail, letters and gifts from them at various times throughout the year. But if they all of a sudden went for a while without saying anything and then said we went to close the adoption, I think I would lose my mind, probably lose my cool with them too and like Brandy said, I would feel betrayed and lied to by them and wonder what my daughter was going to be told about everything as she grew up without me any longer in the picture.

Also with your daughter only being 5 months old that is a worse time to close the adoption or shut off contact because your birthmom is most likely in the early stages of grieving over not being the one to raise her bdaughter and still adjusting to everything as you may be still adjusting also. So, the analogy I would say is that if you were to close the adoption/cut off contact now, you would be pulling the floor out from underneath your bmom and taking her lifesaver that is perhaps helping her to stay afloat and keep going each day right now.

I hope that you don't cut off contact with your bmom and that something else can be worked out with your husband so he can understand the gravity of what the decision would do to the birthmom and possible repercussions it could have for your daughter when she's older and wants to go find her birthmom and such. I just hope and pray that you can work something else out with your husband so he doesn't insist on closing this adoption with your birthmom.

I'll keep you in my prayers and hope that something works out.

Anne

[mom2justynsarah]

Hi,

In answer to some questions, we have an open adoption agreement with our daughter's birthparents. They had requested phone calls 4 times a year & pictures/letters 8 times a year. They also indicated in an interest in visits.

We have been complying with their request without a problem. In fact, "D" has been the one pulling back, taking period breaks etc. But I can totally understand that is part of the healing process.

As far as visits go, they live in California, we are in Florida. Unless we make the trip out there, visits will most likely not happen.

After speaking with my husband (and reading him the replys), he wanted to clarify a few things. First off all, as far as cutting contact, he said "at some point". He gave 1-2 years as a somewhat example. But nothing is set in stone.

He just doesn't want to continue contact for the next 18 years or so. He feels as an adoptee, he can relate better to her being adopted (true). In his opinion, all she needs to know is that she is adopted, her birthfamily lives in California and she has 3 siblings.

When she is old enough, she will be shown all of the letters, poems, pictures that they sent to her. Since we have identifying information on them, she can contact them if and when SHE wants to. She will also have full access to all of her medical history.

The main reason behind him wanting to eventually cut off contact is because they are extremely unstable & unreliable. (true). In fact, "C" (birthdad) has been in jail many times for domestic violence. He was even in jail when "D" was giving birth to Sarah (for an outstanding warrant).

In addition, they are both very irresponsible. They don't take good care of the children that are living with them. For example, "F" (6 year old sister) had lice in her hair while we were in California. She wasn't allowed back in school until it was taken care.

"D" wasn't taking care of it. It got so bad, you could see the lice eggs down her hair. The only reason why "D" finally took care of it was because our facillitator told her she wouldn't allow them back in her car.

What is also frustrating is that "D" was supposed to get her tubes tied when she had her 5th week checkup. She never went to the appointment. (irresponsible). So I wouldn't doubt that sometime down the road, she will get pregnant again.

To be honest with you, the children were "joking" around with us. They said THEY wanted US to adopt them too.
They are aware that we will be giving Sarah a much better life. They had been homeless for many years. You could see they have had a HARD life.

Our daughter is being brought up in a totally different enviornment. She will have two parents & a brother in a very stable & loving home. She will have a different religion & will be growing up in a nice home with a large backyard, in a good neighborhood

She will not be walking around dirty. Their will be no drug abuse in the home. She will not have to ever worry where her next meal will come from or where she would sleep that night etc. She will never have to worry that the state of Florida may take her away from us (this is a constant worry for her siblings in California).

My husband just doesn't want to expose her to that environment while she is growing up. What good does it do for our daughter to know how poorly her birthfamily is living.

Lastly, he just doesn't trust that "D" wouldn't up and disappear on us. She has been known to go off with different men....Ok- enough said...

I still feel that REGARDLESS of all the above, we should still have contact with them. No matter what, "D" is STILL and will ALWAYS be Sarah's first mom. I don't want to hurt her because of the poor decisions or in her.

My question still remains- what is best for my daughter? Does my husband have a valid point? We both love and adore her to pieces. We want what is best for her.

Thanks,
Julie

[SchmennaLeigh]

If they lived next door, I could see the absolute need to cut off contact with them as time goes by in order to protect your daughter. However, three thousand miles puts a lot of distance between themselves and your daughter. I don't understand how it is "protecting" her to shield her from the facts: her birthfamily wasn't able to care for her and made the best possible decision considering their life circumstance, responsibility level and so on. Who do you think is going to better tell(SHOW) your child that her life is better with you? Adoptees in closed adoptions have a tendency to feel that the truth is being kept from them. If she can't see, through letters, pictures and open, honest dialogue that her birthfamily isn't capable of raising themselves let alone a child, then really sit and try to figure out why she should believe you after you have all ready lied and deceived her birthfamily, other than the fact that you are her parents.

Yes, your Husband came from a closed adoption. Please realize that when you daughter is old enough to go to school by herself and do some research, she is going to find out that closed adoption was not the norm at the time of her adoption. She is going to have a myriad of questions about why she wasn't deserving enough to have one. Yes, I agree, you are protecting her. A teenaged girl isn't going to see it like that without proof in front of her.

I still stand firmly in my belief that this is the wrong decision for plenty of reasons. I think your Husband is letting his own emotion get in the way of what could be a healthy semi-open (because, honestly, it's not fully open) adoption. Your daughter, a grown woman, is going to ask upon reunion with her birthparents, "Why did you suddenly cut them out?" Will your response be, "To protect you." Will her question be, "From people who loved me?" Your responsibility is first and foremost to your child, yes. Protection is one thing. And a vastly important thing. But what damage will you do by treating her roots like garbage? (Garbage used in the sense that, "Oh, we're done now; let's toss this out.")

If you feel that the birthfamilies knowledge of your address/phone/etc is going to be a problem, change your phone number and insist that the agency/lawyer/separate intermediary come in to be the middle man. All correspondence must go through the middle man. You don't have to move. If they are so irresponsible, they will lose your address as time goes by.

[Jensboys]

I would point out to your husband that the only reason he HAS his daughter is because he made a promise to her birthparents that she counted on. And by golly, she could of found parents willing to keep that arrangement with her.

Secondly, my boys are now 10 and 9. Their birthdad is incarcerated for drug related activity (and will be until they are well into adulthood). Their birthmom just "gave away" a baby, has lost another son and is parenting one child is what, by all accounts, is not an ideal situation.

Our lives are about as different as you can imagine. Why do we do contact? Well, its the boys reality. This allows them to face the reality of the fact that their first mom WAS NOT CAPABLE of raising them at that time in their lives -- facing that reality with my support. They could create a fantasy life of their birth family, but instead they are able to see with our on going relationship the WHYS of their adoption.

Their birthmom also does cut off contact with us intermittently -- is it painful for the kids? Yes. Does it cause them grief? yes. Is it their reality? YES. Am I honored that I get the privilege of helping them through this process instead of trusting them to go through it themselves at the age of 18 or 19 on their own? ESPECIALLY considering how angry their birthfamily is going to be at you? Do you think they are going to be supportive of an ongoing relationship with you when you have betrayed them in the ultimate way?

Our boys get SO much from their relationship with their birthfamily -- that sense of being loved, that sense of being connected to others. That sense of knowing where they get their talents from ... their smile, their crazy personality ... Even with all the rough parts ... its SOOOO incredibly worth it because of what it has given the boys.

The last thing I would like to bring up is the sibling issue. Not only are you betraying your child's first mother -- you are also denying your daughter's brothers and sisters a relationship they were promised. This is an ENTIRE family that will be decimated. In reunion, sibling relationships are often easier than birthparent relationships. You robbing your daughter of the chance to know her brothers and sisters--- who very obviously love her.

Your adopted daughter's REALITY is that she has another family. PERIOD. She has another mother, another father. She has other brothers and sisters. Cutting off contact only delays the inevitable -- it doesnt change her status to becoming "more bioliogical".

As far as how adoptions were, and your husband "knowing better". He has NO IDEA what it would of given him to know his birthfamily growing up -- he cant imagine it, because he never had the chance. At this point I would suggest that HE DO research on it. Find out WHY the experts suggest its better for the adoptee, and for the adoptee's families. There are real reasons why open adoption is now promoted ... and its because it is BEST for the child.

Jen

[Leigh131313]

Here is how I see this...

It does indeed sound like your daughters birthfamily has some issues. But, how does sending them pictures and letters expose your daughter to this? I can understand you not allowing visits until the birthfamily is NOT using drugs, and is not lice infested...THAT just makes TOTAL sense. BUT, for you to send pictures and letters does not do a darn thing to your daughter. You can decide what you show/don't show your daughter from them...you may decide to save items for when she is older and can understand a little better.

Sending pic's is not going to hurt your daughter, she doesnt even have to really know about it until she is a little older anyway.I send tons of pics to tons of people...it certainly doesnt effect my son or my relationship with him.

Good luck
Leigh