[Vicar]

I am new to this site and have a lot of issues in my head and heart. My father was adopted, but his a/mom died when he was 8. They knew his mom was dying of cancer when they adopted him. They did not tell him he was adopted until his father got mad at him after his a/mom died. My father is a great person and does not have any desire to know about his real mom. I got pregnant at 17 and gave my baby up for adoption (closed) She will be 18 this year. I have always felt I did the right thing and have no regrets. However I am an avid abortion opponent and feel that adoption is not chosen enough by pregnant women, particularly teens.

I have always felt adoption is the best option in cases where a young mother cannot care for her child and can place her child with a good agency in a loving home. However I came across a website that says that adoption is always wrong and you CAN and SHOULD keep your baby.

I still believe though there are cases where the adoption turned out badly its always better than abortion, we have no right to take a human life, and that adoption is a good and loving alternative to raising a child when you are still a child. I want to find a way to educate the public and take away that silent stimga that is still there. "well good for you, but I COULD NEVER GIVE AWAY MY CHILD, in fact I would rather have an abortion."

I am starting to wonder if I am right, not about abortion, but should I have tried to keep my child? For me it was not about money as much as it was about maturity and what would be best for my daughter. Thoughts please, sorry for the long post.

[Vicar]

Dear Nancy,

thanks for your honestly and sharing and I certainly understand your viewpoint. However my entire life I have explored both sides of the abortion issue very thoroughly and saying that women died from illegal abortions does not sway me at all. Women do also die from legal abortions, and yes some women even die during childbirth, but that is not the point. I do not comdemn or judge you in anyway because our govt. and society have made this acceptable. I also have many friends who have had abortions and I love them and respect them without reserve. But the fact remains that a human is human and no matter how difficult the circumstances that child has a right to live. with the advances in medicince, such as in vitro surgery I know that more people can recognize babies are humans very early on in the womb. I know I won't change your mind on this issue, but the agruments you give also do not change mine. Again I appreciate your comments and honesty. I hope you do not think I am being judgemental, not at all. I have made many mistakes, etc. I appreciate you very much, but a life is not a choice.
I pray for you and all your children.

With Respect,

Vicky

[Resseda]

As someone who had an abortion at 19 and placed a child at 27, let me just say...as noble as your motives are, and as well-thought out as they are...there is immense pain caused by adoption. Not that there isn't by abortion, don't get me wrong, but with an abortion, if I may be so blunt...it's done, it's over with, you can move on. When a child is placed for adoption there is (almost) ALWAYS a what if...a wondering...a 'maybe if things had been different'...not to mention the emotion turmoil that can be caused by carrying a pregnancy you know isn't going to end with you wheeling your smiling baby out of the hospital and home with you. If a person is not strong...those things can eat away at them and cause untold misery...just look at the pain of some of the bmoms on here. Truth is always best, but a woman could hide the fact she had an abortion. She could have it done early on, not tell her partner, her parents or her friends. That option is long gone when it comes to adoption. The emotional toll on me placing my son is a million times greater than with my abortion.

I know you posted that life is not a choice. I can respect that you feel that way. (Though I must must MUST mention, my choosing to place my child had nothing to do with long-term emotional pain from my abortion. I don't care to go a whole lot deeper than that, but I can IM you sometime to explain) But just know that you are asking/suggesting that a woman go through potentially a lot of emotional anguish because of your beliefs.

Ress

[Vicar]

Dear Resseda,

Thanks for your reply and I am learning a lot. I appreciate both posts and understand where you are coming from (both of you) However its is not a belief to me, its a truth. Life is one of the few things we can recognize for how precious it is no matter who we are, what culture we are from, etc.

I know I am not going to "win" an abortion argument with anyone. I don't want to win. Trust me I thought about abortion and thought it might be easier though I had seen the disturbing photos, etc. But I know that for me abortion would have been much more devastating in the long run. I would know it happened even if no one else did. Also I was given a lot of insight into the abortion industry and have never bought into any of the pro-abortion agruments. I knew in my heart and soul that I could not do it.

I know that everyone is different. I cannot walk in your shoes or Nancys. But that does not change the fact that a human life is precious in a womb or out of it. No matter what the cost, emotional or otherwise, its a human. I hate to drive this point home because I don't want to make it sound like I am condemning anyone at all. I respect you, and know you made the decisions you did with all the best intentions and love. But things like this are not right only for some and wrong for others, there are such things as truths. Life is life.

I know I am repeating myself, but is there anything more important in this world than life? I guess my question is if I choose to bring a child into this world because I believe abortion is wrong should I have tried to keep her ? I was more looking for thoughts and opinions on that but I guess my mention of being pro life changed the tone dramatically. We could go back and forth forever on the abortion issue but I don't want to hurt anyone or cause a battle. I love that you cared enough to respond and don't think I am just an opinionated difficult person.

I really just have a deep desire to see the babies who are aborted in this country be available instead for adoption by infertile, or for whatever reason, loving couples. I think we need to change our mindset as a society and say adoption should be a positive thing. We should support birth mothers. (remember I am one) We should see the joy that comes from giving an infertile couple a child. (I am also infertile now)

I think we have to realize every human soul has a purpose and is created by God. I hope that you can understand I am just coming from my heart now and understand your heartache over your child you gave up. But think of the wonderful creation of God that child is, and the possibilities for their life.

Yes it hurts. Yes I cry over it. Yes I wonder, but never do I wish I would have done it differently. I love you both for responding to me with so much honestly and appreciate your opinions though I disagree. I pray for you and your children. I really don't want to agrue against abortion here, its not the proper place, but I guess I am wondering if keeping a child is better than not, (on the whole- I know every situation is different)

I guess I was looking a consensus, but on this website there are individuals with their own emotions and thoughts. Forgive me for starting a possibly painful thread.

[sspete]

Certainly an abortion debate is not what I am after, but I just wanted to remind everyone that we are talking about a child here that has NO choice in what happens to them???? In my opinion it is about putting our feelings aside and doing what is best for the child. Being a mother is not easy, but we should remember the needs of the life we created with out being asked to be created. Adoption is so very tough on the mother, but is it about the mother or the child??? In my case I put my feelings aside and thought about my child, they deserve this!!! S Pete

[Vicar]

To all who have posted:

Well I guess not debating abortion is out of the question. I don't regret giving my child a chance to live and though there is some pain of not knowing where she is, etc. that is nothing compared to the pain of knowing I robbed her of that chance. I read all the posts on this website about how upset people are to have given up this precious child they love more than anything, yet abortion seems to generally be an acceptable alternative to the pain of adoption. This makes no sense. How can you love something so much just because you gave birth yet that fact that you conceived that child and carried it for only a few months be such a different thing? Its your child, no matter how many months.. I know lots of women who grieve having miscarriage at 2 months or less.

I have tried to be polite and caring. I do love and respect everyone that has replied to this post. But to say that choosing abortion over adoption makes any sense and is emotionally a better thing, it just does not follow. Yes I guess that sounds judgmental, its not meant to be. But just because you can forget and go on is not the same thing as doing the right thing. Maybe its a fact that for lots of you abortion was easier, but that is because our society tells us its okay, says its legal, its just a pregnancy, but that is simply medically, scientifcally, morally not true.

I think abortion should be illlegal and I would not propose house arrest for pregnant women, but I would propose national campaigns to make adoption more acceptable to all and more support for birth mothers, and women who choose to raise their child. Its so hard for shelters to get money for pregnant teens while Planned Parenthood gets millions from all over.

I would also continue with the abstinence campaign because yes NOT getting pregnant in the first place is the best CHOICE. Why all the animosity toward adoptive parents? several people have indicated they don't want to a baby mill for an infertile couple. Once you are pregnant your choices are over if you believe what is inside of you is your child. Having an option to parent that child or place it with a family that wants them is only an option. And one thing no one on here has addressed is the fact that my life depended on the fact my grandmother gave my father up for adoption and that is why I am alive? So abortions do change life and the course of history, etc. forever.

I am sorry if the pain of not know where your child is, etc. is so hard. I do understand. I have an 18 yr. old daughter I have never seen. But is your emotional comfort more important than giving another life?

Sorry I had to get this out and I apologize to any of those I have hurt or offended. I love you and respect you all for the sacrifices you have made and pray for you all, your children, all of them, even the aborted ones.

[crayons]

I'll try to explain myself, but it doesn't come easy. I don't believe in abortions, but in some cases the choice of abortion should not be ruled out. I did go through a rape pregnancy and gave birth because I could never abort a baby, but about a year ago a 10 year of girl in the town next to me was raped and was forced to carry a baby. I just could not understand this. I believe this to be cruel. I was 16 when I went through this, but for a 10 year old to go through the same thing, is just hard to fantom for me.

I wanted to keep my baby, and alot of people didn't understand that either. I guess I'm trying to say I didn't have a choice in my rape and even keeping my baby. IF I couldn't stop someone from raping me and the others from convincing me to give her up, how could I control what someone else does?

I would rather know that my daughter is alive out there somewhere than for her to have been aborted. I don't remember who said this, but they are right on target: There should be more help all around when it comes to first mothers, adoptive parents, adoption and children most of all.

There is a problem with the system that is supposed to have children in their best interest. Children are being lost, killed and passed around. If these things can be fixed, maybe just maybe abortions will curtail off.

When I was 12, I was up for adoption because my bio mother used me for a human punching bag. The system put me back with my mother and no one would help me. Things may be better now than when I was little, but children are still dying in the hands of parents and agencys.

the best idea would be if we could help the children that are already here, and then work on keeping children from conceiving in the first place. But I still say children that are molested or raped, by incest or however, should not be made to have babies, using the 10 year old as an example.

Best wishes, Brandy

[Vicar]

Dear Crayons,

I can say that the case you bring up is awful. I am sorry, very sorry for the 10 yr old being forced to carry a baby because she was raped. I still don't agree with abortion in these cases though.

However the truth is the majority of abortions are done out of convenience and as a method of birth control. Should we let thousands of innocent babies be killed because there are few circumstances where it MIGHT make sense? (though I disagree) I don't think so. We do need more help and counseling and education for all aspects of sexuality and reproduction, adoption, etc.

But the groups who control this are ones like planned parenthood that make a fortune off of abortions. Its a tough situation but hopefully some day the tide will turn. My heart and prayers goes out to each of you.

Vicar

[stacyone]

Vicar, to respond to your original post: I just stay away from the anti-adoption sites. Yes, there are situations where adoption went horribly, horribly wrong -- but there are also situations where people raising their own children go horribly, horribly wrong. There are no guarantees in life -- everyone in a given situation must take stock for themselves, decide in their hearts what they can live with and what they can't.

For the record, I'm an adoptive parent who is still pro-choice. I think that if the government wants a say-so in whether or not a fetus should be aborted, the government should be prepared to either provide tax deductions for them in utero or pick up the tab for adoption.

How's that for getting a fire going? ;-)

[Vicar]

Dear Staceyone,

I agree with your view on adoption. you are very right things go wrong in many situations. My guess is that more birth mothers who had bad experiences with pushy agencies and disrespectful a/ parents would be on a site like this. I have never felt the agony some describe on here because I was at peace with my decision many years ago when I made it.

As for your idea about govt picking up the tab I like it. ( thought I would really like to see support for crisis pregnancy centers, abstinence, etc.) However do you believe a fetus is a human life? If so how can you say go ahead kill it because the laws are not right? Also except for in cases of rape and incest getting pregnant requires action on the parents part so they should be responsible for what they created, no?

I am thinking a good law would be one where the govt steps in and assists in case of rape and incest.


thanks

vicar

[Vicar]

Kelli,

your last comment is very true, but I guess I feel strongly that if we do nothing, say nothing that we get no where. I too have a similar situation with a friend and she knows my views. Recently she has said to me that abortion is an easy way out and she knows it was wrong and does not feel she can be forgiven for it. (I have assured her that she is forgiven)

I really think that if all pro-choice people could sit and listened to Dr. Wilke discussing the logic of when life begins, completely without emotion, they would have to reconsider.


Thanks for your thoughts.

vicar

[Just Julie]

“With the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.” and “we wait for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.” (2 Peter)

All the pain and joy, mistakes and good decisions we experience here and now is but a blink in eternity. When this life is over we may find heaven has a much higher population than we expected. I do believe the innocent aborted will be there, but so will the rest of us sinners of all types who are forgiven, and we can all dance the Snoopy dance together forevermore!

I love this website and all of you, my new friends!

[Vicar]

also

this was my first post, posted in the wrong area, but my original post was addressed to other b moms.
vicar

[Sharon]

I can really relate to your situation. My greatest regret about adoption is that I chose the wrong couple... if only I could go back and do it all over; hindsight is 20/20.
Although they provide well for my son monetarily and claim to love him (which I do not doubt) they have displayed such indifference to his emotional well-being, such unethical behavior, and such ignorance about adoption in general that I fear for my son's emotional well-being growing up in such a home.
I think the topic you brought up is important and deserves its own thread. Why don't you start a new thread, and I'll post there too. ~Sharon
P.S. I doubt your son's a-parent's are truly "proud" of their behavior. How could they be? They are probably desperately insecure and they surely realize that their treatment of you is wrong. But it sometimes seems that the more people realize they are wrong, the more vehemently they defend their actions.
They have to live with themselves forever. They have to wake up and look at themselves in the mirror each day... and I doubt they are happy with what they see.
Best wishes, ~Sharon

[Vicar]

hmm lets compare killing children to killing cows.....nice anway



I think war is awful as just about everyone does, but what about the thousands of bodies they found in graves in Iraq? I am not getting into a debate about the war, I am not even saying I support it, I just am saying you can look at it from that angle, Iraqis were being killed every day by their own govt.

I am an animal lover, but yes I eat meat, but they are not humans, only humans have souls. Not sure where the Christian thing came from, I think all human life is precious....sorry I left out HUMAN some where I know I have mentioned it quite a bit.

I love you Chicken and I am praying for you right now.

vicar

PS to all, sorry I misposted here, it was my fault I for one am not going to post on this thread anymore, chicken you can go attack me on my other thread.

Love to you and have a wonderful day