[SilverWitch]

I have had a very rocky relationship with my daughter. We have spent since Dec. 4 2002 doing this strange dance.

So, I have a question or make that a few questions to adoptees so that maybe I can understand her behaviors a little better.

1. If you want a relationship, why do you not get the information and get the counseling and stuff so that when all the emotional BS hits you are somewhat ready?

2. If you want information, why interfere with the life of the birthparents when all you have to do is request the medical information through the agency, non-identifying of course, and then leave it at that?

3. If you put your information out there, why do so many get angry and say I just wanted information or something else and then completely devastate the natural parent?

Some of the things that have happened over the years totally freak me out. First this, then that. I can never do anything right. Everything is a test. I have actually reached the point when I dread her messages. I never know if I am going to get punched in the guts or a hug or hello.

You have to know, I found her on this website with her own information. The day I finally stopped being chicken and called, she wanted to meet. The following day she did not even want to know me.

I did the unthinkable a little over a year ago. I went to her house, uninvited and unannounced. It was the first time we met face to face.

I have been "mom", "B", "that woman", "who**", "fat a" and a number of just as interesting names and things. Including curse and garbage.

So, why? If you want to know, would anyone act like that?

How do I make it stop? I have tried to pull away (2X's) only to have her get right in my face in public - on my blog or on my myspace - and say horrible things to me and about me.

I finally just accept whatever and try not to be hurt or feel like a piece of trash when she is angry for whatever I do wrong.

So, the questions above - why?

[manni28]

As andoptee, I don't have an answer for you, but you don't have to be a doormat. Maybe you both can start over and try again, but with boundries. Ask her the same questons you posted here and tell her "if you are willing to try again to communicate so am I"

I wish you the best,

Manni

[txrnr]

I have no idea either, except her issue is with the way she feels about herself, and not you. It can't be. I am so sorry this is happening to you. You don't deserve to be treated this way by anyone!

[Dickons]

Originally Posted by SilverWitch

I have had a very rocky relationship with my daughter. We have spent since Dec. 4 2002 doing this strange dance.

So, I have a question or make that a few questions to adoptees so that maybe I can understand her behaviors a little better.

1. If you want a relationship, why do you not get the information and get the counseling and stuff so that when all the emotional BS hits you are somewhat ready?

But that is the quandry...we have no idea what we are looking for because we have never had contact or even seen someone who is biologically related to us. There is absolutely no way to predict the future and what emotions, anger, or desires will surface should we ever actually get to have contact. All we know is that for whatever reason we were given up for adoption. If you have not been in this position then you cannot understand the sheer upheaval in how we feel when reunited with any biological connection...

2. If you want information, why interfere with the life of the birthparents when all you have to do is request the medical information through the agency, non-identifying of course, and then leave it at that?

Some of us have lived our entire life questioning who we are, who we come from, what don't we know. Some may start with only the feeling of need to know our medical history but once there is a chance of knowing more of something we know nothing about...and only you can give us a clue...

3. If you put your information out there, why do so many get angry and say I just wanted information or something else and then completely devastate the natural parent?

Again, some are searching for something they have never known, so would not know what they want before they find it.

Some of the things that have happened over the years totally freak me out. First this, then that. I can never do anything right. Everything is a test. I have actually reached the point when I dread her messages. I never know if I am going to get punched in the guts or a hug or hello.

It works both ways. And regardless of how happy and well adjusted any person is, some feel and have felt rejected by the act of adoption. It is what it is and if someone feels this way they may fear rejection and act in their self interest and test the waters in the shallow end of the pool before moving to the deep end...or on the other hand the other party wants to move at much greater speed than the other party or wants more out of the relationship and the fear of being rejected surfaces and the ability to chance being rejected again creates problems.

You have to know, I found her on this website with her own information. The day I finally stopped being chicken and called, she wanted to meet. The following day she did not even want to know me.

Not really unexpected in my mind. Being overwhelmed is pretty natural when faced with something you have grown up knowing you will never have and making peace with that and then the one in a million chance happens.

I did the unthinkable a little over a year ago. I went to her house, uninvited and unannounced. It was the first time we met face to face.

You took away any control she had and that has happened since she was born...and taken from her biological family...she had no choice then and you made a decision without consulting her on her feelings...

I have been "mom", "B***h", "that woman", "who**", "fat a**" and a number of just as interesting names and things. Including curse and garbage.

Don't accept it.

So, why? If you want to know, would anyone act like that?

No one can answer that question except her.

How do I make it stop? I have tried to pull away (2X's) only to have her get right in my face in public - on my blog or on my myspace - and say horrible things to me and about me.

Open a dialogue and together negotiate firm boundries and stick to them. You can only control your actions and reactions and if it is bad for you, then stop.

I finally just accept whatever and try not to be hurt or feel like a piece of trash when she is angry for whatever I do wrong.

So, the questions above - why?

Kind regards,
Dickons

[SilverWitch]

Dickons,

First, I understand the given up position - my family dumped me in foster care for most of my childhood, so abandonment is something I get. Age 12 to almost 19 I lived with fosterparents and then just my daughter and I. I still have no answers and my father is dead and my mother, well, to put it kindly, we do not speak, her choice.

Second, I can not give her the answers she wants if she refuses to discuss the questions. It is as if she thinks if she asks the hard questions that I will just run away! Not a chance.

I have never ever attempted to completely leave, just to step back and sort myself out.

As for going to her - it was over 6 years of mostly silence, then the gimmee's and even midnight tearful calls because her current man was doing this or that.

I guess what I am saying is this: How can I be a not-a-mother Mother, while she is screaming at me that I am not there; while I am doing my best and while I am being dragged around through the mud in public?

I have never wanted anything as much as I wanted her. From conception she was loved. Her father loved her and I loved her. There was no talk of adoption between us, except in attempts to get our families to help get her out of the system (I was still a minor in the foster care system and they take automatic custody when a foster child gives birth). There was not a thought of abortion - ever. There was nothing but love. She was a breast fed, spoiled with love kid.

I try to set ground rules and boundaries and she will not even try to come to an agreement. However, she will say she has and punish me for not doing things her way.

So, how do I make this a good thing? How do I do more? How do I help her see that her problems are hers and while I would be the first one to give a hug or a shoulder or even my heart, I can't fix her!

This is why a lot of mothers are afraid to search - that and the fear that we will interfere with what we were told would be our child's "perfect" life.

Sigh

[Dickons]

Silverwitch,

You are her mother but not the mom who raised her and that may be part of the problem, you know the loyalty to her other mother and that is really a hard road.

If she truly has issues then you need to protect yourself and stand firm. I will be here but will not allow myself to be trampled on and will hang up or leave or whatever the situation. But you cannot have harsh words back, simply walk away.

As to negotiation of boundries, do it in writing back and forth and agree to the rules up front. Each of you need to read what the other says and then repeat it back in your words and have the other confirm. Then go to the next item and repeat. If she does not want to do that then you must again, protect yourself and not be part of a bad dialogue.

I think that reunions have to be on terms of friendship and forget the role in the relationship, at least until the friendship is secure. You are pretty much strangers and you have to like each other before you can become friends.

It isn't easy but if you feel that you are the bottom of the heap - you are the only one who can say enough. You may also have to drop your current myspace and blogging to protect your inner peace. Without peace neither of you will have a true relationship.

Kind regards,
Dickons

[manni28]

Silverwitch,

You are her mother but not the mom who raised her and that may be part of the problem, you know the loyalty to her other mother and that is really a hard road.

If she truly has issues then you need to protect yourself and stand firm. I will be here but will not allow myself to be trampled on and will hang up or leave or whatever the situation. But you cannot have harsh words back, simply walk away.

As to negotiation of boundries, do it in writing back and forth and agree to the rules up front. Each of you need to read what the other says and then repeat it back in your words and have the other confirm. Then go to the next item and repeat. If she does not want to do that then you must again, protect yourself and not be part of a bad dialogue.

I think that reunions have to be on terms of friendship and forget the role in the relationship, at least until the friendship is secure. You are pretty much strangers and you have to like each other before you can become friends.

It isn't easy but if you feel that you are the bottom of the heap - you are the only one who can say enough. You may also have to drop your current myspace and blogging to protect your inner peace. Without peace neither of you will have a true relationship.

Kind regards,
Dickons

Silverwitch:

I agree with Dickons. You can always try again but with boundries.

All the best,

Manni

[SilverWitch]

Originally Posted by Dickons

Silverwitch,

You are her mother but not the mom who raised her and that may be part of the problem, you know the loyalty to her other mother and that is really a hard road.

Actually, the first three years of her life I was mommy. She still does not ever call me mother - always my name or mom.

If she truly has issues then you need to protect yourself and stand firm. I will be here but will not allow myself to be trampled on and will hang up or leave or whatever the situation. But you cannot have harsh words back, simply walk away.

I do not fight with her. I told her in no uncertain terms that the battle is over. As long as there is respect, I will communicate. Ugliness is over. I do not contact her. She contacts me. As far as harsh words, while I have gotten very hurt, I never said things like she has said.

And walking away - forget it. If I pull back, she comes back at me with a vengence and spends months calling me names, etc. Until I get fed up and tell her either stop or there would be no response whatsoever.

As to negotiation of boundries, do it in writing back and forth and agree to the rules up front. Each of you need to read what the other says and then repeat it back in your words and have the other confirm. Then go to the next item and repeat. If she does not want to do that then you must again, protect yourself and not be part of a bad dialogue.

I have tried all kinds of different techniques to reach out and set boundaries and be friends. Nothing, absolutely nothing, is acceptable. For some reason I am either MOM or I am nothing. I am not allowed to do anything else or be anything else.

I think that reunions have to be on terms of friendship and forget the role in the relationship, at least until the friendship is secure. You are pretty much strangers and you have to like each other before you can become friends.

Sadly, we do like each other. It is trust that is the issue. She is positive I am just going to leave. I know if she thinks that I am going, even if it is not real, she will start the whole cycle again.

It isn't easy but if you feel that you are the bottom of the heap - you are the only one who can say enough. You may also have to drop your current myspace and blogging to protect your inner peace. Without peace neither of you will have a true relationship.

I wish I was myspace blogging - LOL - I have a personal blog re family and one about being a mom after loss to adoption. She does not use them to be ugly- since she knows I have and will again, shut her out.

This issue is her being unable to just learn how to be friends. I understand that she just does not know how to be friends. I have heard it over and over from her ex-friends that apologize to me for the things they say to or about me on her behest. It is sad.

I love her. I will stand my ground. I will not be a door mat. We shall see!

Kind regards,
Dickons

Always for my daughter.

[shadow riderer]

Maybe I'm way off base here, but what if the issues are not all adoption related? Just throwing this out there for thought and in hopes it might help, because I remember your story Silver, and what was going on when several of us encouraged you to go visit her uninvited. We saw it as her crying for you, so to speak. This push-pull: I love you-I hate you could be more than just adoption issues. Have you read anything about borderline personality disorder? Did I understand you to say she has problems with her relationships with friends as well?

I'm not a proffessional, but a common montra with BPDs is "I hate you. Please don't leave me." There are quite a few books on the subject of BPD, and several good websites with information and book list, as well as, support groups, etc. Put adoption on top of a personality disorder, or a personality disorder on top of adoption, and you have a very difficult person to deal with. Trust me. Hope this helps somehow. Again, I may be way off base. Just wanted to throw it out there for consideration.

[Dickons]

Originally Posted by SilverWitch

How do I make it stop? I have tried to pull away (2X's) only to have her get right in my face in public - on my blog or on my myspace - and say horrible things to me and about me.

I wish I was myspace blogging - LOL - I have a personal blog re family and one about being a mom after loss to adoption. She does not use them to be ugly- since she knows I have and will again, shut her out.

Silverwitch,

The quotes above are from two different posts by you in the same thread. It is one or the other, cannot be both.

Regards,
Dickons

[SilverWitch]

Dickons,

You had said something that made me think that you thought my blog was on myspace - it is not. Also, the ugliness on my blog started when I gave her what she wanted - to be left alone.

She would leave nasty (very nasty) anonymous comments on my blogspot blog, until she outed herself to someone who told her it was none of her business. Once I was positive it was her I shut her down with the statement NO MORE and told her I would not tolerate her ugliness anymore and made it impossible to post to my blogspot anonymously.

All of this occured when I attempted (each time) to remove myself from the line of fire. So, it is not the same - it was totally in response to my perception that you thought I was talking about a myspace blog, which can be made totally private. A blogspot can be made private, but it was started to help others understand the "mother" side of the reunion ride and I am not and will not quit living and hide because she wants to be childish.

[SilverWitch]

Shadow,

You are not way off base. At least as far as I can tell. The push/pull is apparent and I know that it is very possible that she is borderline personality. The only problem is simple: "how do you deal with it?" I don't know how to connect with her and stay comfortable with that connection.

I just don't know how to deal and am trying to learn. Hmmmm.......

[SunshinesMommy]

Just jumping in re:BPD

The black and white thinking and relationships issues are really common in BPD and some of the hardest aspects of the illness to overcome. If she does indeed have BPD she'll deffinately need to seek some kind of help, it's something that's easy to deal with on your own, but you can deal. As far as what you can do just be there for her regardless. Let her know even when she pushes that you aren't leaving. This doesn't mean forcing yourself on her, just reassuring her that you are always there for her. It's hard and emotionally taxing, but if you tell her "Fine, I'm gone" the it just reinforces the abandonment issues that are commonly behind the push/pull.

As far as reading goes, "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me" is a pretty good book on BPD, a little old, but good.

[Dickons]

Originally Posted by SilverWitch

Dickons,

You had said something that made me think that you thought my blog was on myspace - it is not. Also, the ugliness on my blog started when I gave her what she wanted - to be left alone.

She would leave nasty (very nasty) anonymous comments on my blogspot blog, until she outed herself to someone who told her it was none of her business. Once I was positive it was her I shut her down with the statement NO MORE and told her I would not tolerate her ugliness anymore and made it impossible to post to my blogspot anonymously.

All of this occured when I attempted (each time) to remove myself from the line of fire. So, it is not the same - it was totally in response to my perception that you thought I was talking about a myspace blog, which can be made totally private. A blogspot can be made private, but it was started to help others understand the "mother" side of the reunion ride and I am not and will not quit living and hide because she wants to be childish.

Perhaps that is part of your problem...your perception if it is anything like your perception of my words. "You may also have to drop your current myspace and blogging to protect your inner peace."

Sorry Silverwitch, I'm done.

Regards,
Dickons

[shadow riderer]

Trying to deal with someone, who has BPd, is a monumental task to say the least. IMO, not sure it's possible to deal with them and not lose your own sanity. I think the only thing you can do, if this is the case, is protect yourself with firm, and I mean extremely firm, boundaries. (easy for me to say, not so easily done with someone you love) The only thing I can suggest is that you check into some books and maybe find a support group. I hate to say this, but if a personality disorder is the case, she won't get better, and this wont ever stop, until, and unless, she gets prof help. Even then it's still going to be difficult for her and you. Not too uplifting I know. The only way to deal with it (IMO) is to accept it for what it is and learn all you can to help you understand BPD.

IMO, if a personality disorder is the case, her behavior isn't really about you or the whole adoption issue. She is using adoption issues to make you her target. AS adoptees, when our Bparents, have behavioral issues, we are told not to take it personally. It works in reverse when it is the adoptee with the behavioral issues. You have to learn to seperate yourself from her behavioral issues. That's why I am encouraging you to get some outside help with learning to deal with her. It's too hard to do all by yourself, and it will help you become a stronger person as well.

Again, I'm not a prof so take my advice for what it's worth, but I hope it helps.