[BrockBaby]

That is a manipulative statement in itself...setting it up so that if you leave, it's because "you got what you wanted" not because of anything she did. So if you leave, it's because you're a selfish person.

zxczxcasdasd... I think you have hit the nail on the head! Perfectly. She is placing the "blame" on me by making it about me getting and going...rather then me not allowing her to be manipulative, mean, and downright abusive in many ways towards me.

I do like what both quantum and TG said. If you took obligation and guilt out of the equation, what is it that you want for your life? Sometimes I "try on" difficult decisions in my head for a day or so, and I've sometimes been surprised at where I've found either resolve or relief.

I think this is a good idea. I am good at that sort of exercise. Having this place to bounce off ideas, and even "checking" myself on my own actions, thoughts, and feelings.

Thanks!

[BrockBaby]

I think maybe if you take into account her personality problems and realize she is probaby NOT going to be able to give you want you need and proceed with that it may help you set the boundries that everyone esle is mentioning. It sounds like she has no ability to help herself let alone anyone else.

dpen6

I am FAR beyond thinking that she'll be able to give me what I had wanted. I have even come to terms with that. However, the boundries is exactly what needs to be established, and established in a sense of REAL boundries...not just this makes me sad when you say this sort of thing...but IF you even START to talk to me in this manner, then I WILL get up and LEAVE...sorta boundry. But even beyond that, I am to the point where I don't know IF I even want to make boundries...do I have the strength left after 15 months of this type of relationship??!!

[BrockBaby]

Before I comment on everyone elses wonderful words of advice, support, and care, this is EXTREMELY difficult for me to even consider. But it's like I am at my ropes end. I don't know if I can hold on anymore, especially since she just seems to like to make the rope swing....then I ask myself, "what am I getting out of this??" Not that I went into reunion to "get" something..but seriously!? I feel that EVERY time I go see her I am on eggshells waiting for something to happen. ONE time I can remember REALLY enjoying a visit...maybe two times that were "okay"...all the others I felt on guard. What does that say? Why does she think she can say hurtful things to and about me? She keeps bringing up that she's my MOTHER and I Have to HONOR her...but when haven't I? Does "honor" mean that you allow someone be the way she has been to me?!

As I was telling a DEAR DEAR friend tonight. I am the kind of person that HAS to deal with the things like this in my life. I had shoved for so long, and now that I try not to do that anymore, there is a NEED for me to get to the "bottom" of this....I just wish it wasn't so hard. I wish that she could be decent..that I could talk to her...that I felt connected...

[BrockBaby]

First of all, you don't OWE anyone anything!

lovemy6... Seems like a theme, and it seems like that is part of my problem. I am seeing that others don't expect that from me (meaning other sane people..lol) So why am I placing that on myself?! Thanks for the reminder!

JoEllen... Thanks for your support and prayers. It's been difficult, but I'll get through, I always do.

Shadow... Thanks! You are always so wise, and always seem to know my heart. Hugs to you to my friend!

proudmum.... Thanks! I am trying VERY hard to do what is best for everyone. I really appreciate the comments, it means so much to me!

[BrockBaby]

Knows you will be ok ...........Its hard but you are the BIG DOG that will end up with a BIGGER BITE
LOVE YA

Mama Hen... WE know what you mean by that! Thanks for putting it in print!! I love you!!!!! And thanks for the talk tonight!!

[lglysson]

Is this the reunion you want? If not you can decide to pull back.

Myself, I choose to not be around hurtful people, even if they are blood. I wish them well and spend little time with them.

You do not need to feel responsible for her.

Blessings,
Lynelle

[RavenSong]

Brock, I'm so sorry you're experiencing this behavior of your birthmom's. She sounds like a pretty messed-up person.

When I first read your description of what she says to you, I had to wonder if we have the same mother. My mom is super controlling and manipulative, too. She'll often say horrid things to me, and then turn around and say she was "kidding" me. I feel like I'm walking on eggshells every single weekend when I talk to her on the phone. I can't stand the mind games and guilt trips...

I wish I knew the answer for you, but I don't. You have a great head on your shoulders, though, and I'm sure that whatever decision you make will be the right one.

As far as your original question of whether other birthmoms act this way toward their reunited children, all I can do is answer an emphatic "NO" as far as my own son and I are concerned. I would never, ever in a thousand years treat him the way your bmom is treating you. The very fact that he is once again in my life is a true blessing from the Lord and a sacred gift that I cherish.

[BrockBaby]

Lynelle...you are right, I am not responsible for her, I guess this is the time where I am discovering that I do indeed feel that I am. But I'm not..so now I have to train myself not to react to her as though I was responsible for her. She is an adult, although she is stuck at a MUCH younger age, but that is not my issue, it's hers.

I think it is so hard to know what one's responsibilities are, especially when they initiate contact. But as I was saying to a dear friend last night, if this was a man I was dating I would not put up with this kind of behavior for one minute. So why, because she gave birth to me, do I allow her to behave in such a manner!? Well, it's going to stop!!!!!! I deserve to be treated with respect and not have hurtful things said to me as well...

Raven...maybe we are sisters and don't know it! LOL Perhaps we could start a club The Eggshell Walkers!? We could have a ceremony were we get our boots on and crush those eggshells...why should we have to tip-toe through life because of someone else's issues?! I know that we have to be kind, and treat people with respect, but that doesn't mean we don't get to be free in the process....and, you know what, I want FREEDOM from all this crap more then I want a relationship, because when I look at the "relationship" I am not seeing one!!!!

[jaspies11]

First of all, I want to say that you sound like a very nice, considerate person. YOU seem to have led a very productive life. It sounds to me that your bmom is jealous of your success. It is really hard to be around someone that is negative and plays with your mind. I would suggest that if you still want to visit her, make your visits short, stand up to her when she is being ugly. Just simply let her know that you don't appreciate her talking to you like that. Yes, she will probably have a comeback for what you say. Take the high road. YOU do not deserve to be put in a degrading situation. Especially when you know in your heart that you are a good person and nothing like any of the comments she says to you. I think this is a great time to thank the good Lord for putting you with a loving and caring family that offered you so much. Just try and understand, that her life was totally different than yours. Again, I see jealousy. YOU DON'T deserve what she is dishing out. It will be your choice how to handle it from here. I suggest limiting your visits, stating how you feel, taking the high road, and thanking the good Lord above for your adoptive family, as well as getting the opportunity to know who your bparents are. Good luck!

[birdeez4]

So sorry you are going through this! She probably 'messes' with her raised children too. My mother can be very manipulative; I called her on it many years ago and things got better (in a way). It was a case of having to set stern limit and, on occasion, be willing to walk away, although I've always stressed that when she wants to treat me with the same respect that she expects me to give her, I'm available. I've had to reinforce it over and over through the years. One of my biggest points to her about the "I was just kidding, can't you take a joke?" was that 'A joke isn't funny if it someone gets hurt as the punchline'.

FWIW, I really believe this is a personality disorder, mental illness, whatever you want to call it. It's kind of a 'hurt you before you get a chance to hurt me' type of thing. I also think it's a bit of a control thing, too. My armchair psychologist is rambling again...

As far as the "Honor your father and mother" stuff goes: Don't forget that the same book that gave that instruction also says "Do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord." (Ephesians 6:4).

Anyway..... you shouldn't take this treatment from anyone, regardless of what relationship they are to you. Hope things work out for you!

[BrockBaby]

First of all, I want to say that you sound like a very nice, considerate person. YOU seem to have led a very productive life. It sounds to me that your bmom is jealous of your success. It is really hard to be around someone that is negative and plays with your mind. I would suggest that if you still want to visit her, make your visits short, stand up to her when she is being ugly. Just simply let her know that you don't appreciate her talking to you like that. Yes, she will probably have a comeback for what you say. Take the high road. YOU do not deserve to be put in a degrading situation. Especially when you know in your heart that you are a good person and nothing like any of the comments she says to you. I think this is a great time to thank the good Lord for putting you with a loving and caring family that offered you so much. Just try and understand, that her life was totally different than yours. Again, I see jealousy. YOU DON'T deserve what she is dishing out. It will be your choice how to handle it from here. I suggest limiting your visits, stating how you feel, taking the high road, and thanking the good Lord above for your adoptive family, as well as getting the opportunity to know who your bparents are. Good luck!

Thank you sooo much for such a lovely post. I do want to take the high road, and I try to take it daily. I do not want to stoop to her level, and I won't...and I think that is what upsets her. It would be so much easier for her if I did, because then it would mean I was just like her. I refuse. (there was even a time that she was yelling at me and telling me I had no backbone...and I had a discussion with her later about how I would not tolerate that type of behavior) However, it seems that she just tries different ways to "get" to me, and she will QUICKLY learn that this girl is NOT putting up with it any longer.

I do thank God for His hand on my life. I live my life for Him, and I know that He has plans for me! He had me exactly where I needed to be to be the person I am today.

Thank you!!!!!

[BrockBaby]

As far as the "Honor your father and mother" stuff goes: Don't forget that the same book that gave that instruction also says "Do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord." (Ephesians 6:4).

Birdeez...THANK YOU!!! THANK YOU!!! I was just thinking about that scripture when I was recalling what she said. She does not want to start preaching the Bible to me, because I am well versed, study God's Word, and even preach at my church occasionally. I am VERY solid in what I believe! Just like I shot her down when she claimed that God saw her as MORE of a mother then my own mom....God instituted adoption when He said that he adopts us!! So it would be contradictory to think that God does not honor the adoptive mother as the mother! Don't get me started...LOL

I was thinking about this whole situation today at church. I am stage manager...and we were doing this new song today, that said "I'm not going back, I'm moving ahead, I'm here to declare to you my past is over in You things are made new.Surrendered my life to Christ...i'm moving, moving forward" And as we were singing it, somethiing in me raised up and said, "I do not have to go backwards because that is where she is stuck..but I MUST go forward!!!!" This may seem selfish and mean, but I do not mean it to be. I just have to live my life to the fullest. I can't go back to the past, I can only move forward into the future....and if she doesn't want to, then I can't force her!

[nilesgirl]

Wow Brock...I've read this thread thus far and my heart hurts for you. You are definitely a kinder, more patient, well adjusted, tolerant person than I am. I'm not sure I would have lasted as long in a reunion like this one OR been as benevolent as you have been. There is a lot of good advice here that I would echo.

Let's take a quick inventory....Your bmom has MS (or something like that), is diabetic, prior drug lifestyle, has jelousy and envy issues with you, anger issues, child relinquishment issues, raised children with drug issues, a brother that is wierd and stalks, suffered a drug related stroke, controling & manipulating issues, bitterness and resentment that you "take after" your bfather's side and seems to resent that you are a beautiful, well adjusted, clean living, successful christian girl. Hmmmm...I would wonder.... Was she always like this or did the health, drug, stroke, and relinquishment issues make her the way she is??? Does she want to remain this way???? Could she change even if she wanted to??? No one would blame you from walking away from this abusive relationship. You deserve better. IF you decided to continue with this relationship....I would definitely lay down clear boundries, make it clear that if those boundries are crossed that it will be your birthmom's responsibility if the relationship cools dramatically OR stops completely....Then the ball is in her court. I love the Ephesians 6:4 scripture...you may want to cite that when she brings up the 5th Commandment and remind her that it was your aparents that "Mothered & Fathered" you and that she needs to respect that just as much as your aparents should respect that she gave you life. You seem to be doing a very good job of sorting this all out. With God and all of the support here....I have faith that this will all work out for you. Blessings and prayers for you my friend

[BrockBaby]

You seem to be doing a very good job of sorting this all out. With God and all of the support here....I have faith that this will all work out for you. Blessings and prayers for you my friend

Niles... I am trying VERY VERY VERY hard to sort this out. I don't want to do something I'll regret..and I don't want to do something based on feelings alone, so I am trying to get good advice, think upon it, and go from there. I have had so much good advice here..and I thank you all for that!!! I couldn't imagine doing this alone. Ultimately, I am the one who has to decide where to go from here, but many good, caring poeple have pointed out things that I have needed to hear.

No one would blame you from walking away from this abusive relationship. You deserve better. IF you decided to continue with this relationship....I would definitely lay down clear boundries, make it clear that if those boundries are crossed that it will be your birthmom's responsibility if the relationship cools dramatically OR stops completely....Then the ball is in her court.

When I read that, I thought..I would tell someone else that exact thing...no one would blame you from walking away....but why can't I believe it for myself?!?! And I think that some of it stems from the fact that I feel blamed, and I pick up that blame and take it like it belongs to me. Guess what...it doesn't!! It is not my fault she is in the position she is in. I didn't make the choice..I am not the cause of it. Yet, down deep I think that she believes that I am. But I'm not! The thing I have to figure out, will I be able to tell this to her!?! Should I?! How would I?!

Thanks Niles for giving me more to think about!!

[shadow riderer]

Originally Posted by BrockBaby

Niles... I am trying VERY VERY VERY hard to sort this out. I don't want to do something I'll regret..and I don't want to do something based on feelings alone, so I am trying to get good advice, think upon it, and go from there. I have had so much good advice here..and I thank you all for that!!! I couldn't imagine doing this alone. Ultimately, I am the one who has to decide where to go from here, but many good, caring poeple have pointed out things that I have needed to hear.



When I read that, I thought..I would tell someone else that exact thing...no one would blame you from walking away....but why can't I believe it for myself?!?! And I think that some of it stems from the fact that I feel blamed, and I pick up that blame and take it like it belongs to me. Guess what...it doesn't!! It is not my fault she is in the position she is in. I didn't make the choice..I am not the cause of it. Yet, down deep I think that she believes that I am. But I'm not! The thing I have to figure out, will I be able to tell this to her!?! Should I?! How would I?!

Thanks Niles for giving me more to think about!!

Brock, I don't know about you, but sometimes I feel like, in my reunion with my Bdad, that it is almost like he thinks he has done me some sort of favor by acknowledging me and reuniting. I don't know that he really feels like that on a conscious level. I think it is just the only way he knows to survive. . I've had to set some strict boundaries with him. He hasn't really dealt well with that. He's definitely more passive with his manipulation tactics than your Bmom. Sometimes it feels like he is saying to me, "You know, daughter, I didn't have to accept you back into my life. I abandoned you the first time because your existence was a problem for me. If you become a problem, I can do it again. So, you do what I want, be what I want you to be, give me what I need from you, take what I give you, and don't ask me for anything in return, expect me to be responsible for myself, much less expect me to be accountable for my actions. Just be happy, and grateful, for what I give you, or I will abandon you again."

My wording is probably way more bluntly black and white than the situation calls for, but that is how it feels. It's a manipulation of my emotions whether intentional on his part or not. My Bdad, like your Bmom, seems to have started blaming me for the difficulties in his life. It is not my fault he made bad choices in marriage partners, etc, so I set boundaries and have backed off completely. Guess what? His problems have not gone away. They have even gotten worse. He also, I think a bit like your Bmom, tries to sabbotage the relationship, so that he can put the blame for the destruction of the relationship on me, and make himself the victim in all this.

When I've set those boundaries, I've tried very hard to clarify the reasons for my stance and help him understand that this is about respect. I have been explicit when telling him that I am not going anywhere. I am not "ending" the relationship. This is up to him, and when he wants to get to know his daughter, build a "healthy" relationship with me, and can do so without the , uhm, Bull hocky, he knows how to reach me. I will be waiting.

Unfortunately, he doesn't quite get it yet. He has tested things on several occasions, but I have hope that someday he will understand that I am not playing games. He's a smart man, just misguided, and I honestly don't think he knows how to have a "healthy" relationship with anyone. I always remind him I love him at the end of what little contact we have had over the past six months. I don't know how this would work with your Bmom, but hope it gives you some ideas. Be forwarned, it's a long, exscrutiatingly painful process, with no guarantees of the outcome, well, except you will get to keep your self-respect.

I think God puts difficult people in our lives so that he can continue to help us build our character...but...dang!...how much more work does my character need? lol

Keeping you in my prayers.