[Denisesmom]

I was recently found by my bdau. I had not been able to find her due to laws in Il and b/c I had no memory of the event. I could not remember the day she was born and was never told the sex of the child. At any rate she found me. I immediately allowed contact. Finally I thought my prayers were answered.
I found out she was a girl when she was born everything. I was running over with every emotions you can name. She seemed open excited and caring. However she had one weird rule no phone calls. I thought that was weird but I figured okay she doesn't know me we will get through this. Okay so we MET!!! Seemed to me to go well but after the meeting very very little contact. Emails only when she wants info or wants me to fill out paperwork for original birth certif. But nothing else. I had made an appointment to call her on her birthday which she agreed to. She would not pick up. I left a message. About two weeks ago I made another appointment to talk over an issue and she again agreed but when the appointed time came she again would not pick up. We do not talk, or email now. She talked to one of my friends the other night and basically told her she thought that her birth family was pretty darn dysfunctional and basically did not believe what I had told her. She is pushing her bsib and bfa to talk to her even though they have been very clear they do not want her in their lives. I know she is hurt by that I would be too.
Bottom line is this. This is killing me. I can't be respoonsible for what WAS. She has decided, I guess I am a nut case. Which by the way I am not. I know I have to let her go. But I hate it. I wish so much that we could talk. I wish she would just give me a chance. What is going on???
Sad and confused.

[keds]

Denise - (((hugs))). It's hard to figure all this out and I guess she's having trouble too? She may have mentioned that to your friend because you seem so willing to become part of her life and the others aren't there yet. She may, or may not, be shutting you out because it's easier for her.

If it makes you feel a little better, I am finding my relationship with my bson very similar and I'm finding my way out of the worst of it, you will too. We had a great first year of reunion, lots of meetings, calls, mostly e-mails but when bsiblings and bdad (hubby) failed to connect he became distant. I usually contact him now there have been no calls, sparse e-mails. I'm not sure when we'll see each other again.

I too am having a rough go of it at the moment but I'm taking one day at a time and trying to step out of myself and remember that they are all going through just as much of an emotional time. Still I can't help, like you, feeling like he got the information he wanted and that's all folks. Of course, that's from MY perspective. I have to keep saying to myself "we have the rest of our lives to figure this all out" like Kune reminds me, great person by the way, but it's difficult at times.

I would continue to provide her with info and answer her requests and see if she will meet/call again but don't push it time and space sounds like the order of the day. Take care and hang in there.

[austin0i]

Hi Denise,

I am speaking to you as an adult adoptee.

I am not sure how much work your daughter has done to deal with the effects of adoption. I can tell you that in reunion, anything that even hints at rejection, cuts to the core of the adopted persons soul. If she is not working on those issues in some sort of support group or therapy, she will shut down.

If I had to make an educated guess, I would say the rejection of her other family members, shut her down and she can not be open to you.

I would recommend trying to take them out of the picture if you can, and slow things down. I not sure how you do that, being that they have already been introduced, but if you can, that would help.

Leave it between you and her and build trust. Slowly.

Kim

[Denisesmom]

I know she is having issues. Honestly I do. But yes she says she has a great "shrink". But who knows. I am a psychotherapist and I know there are a lot of them out there that have no idea what they are doing, of course there are some really good ones (like me )) But I do know. I will tell you from a professionals heart that not until you are in the middle of all this do you really know the depth of pain that this can cause. I had gone 45 years, yes I wanted to know her, yes I was sad at times but I did not know the extent that trying not to feel the pain of the loss took on me emotionally and physically. I am now going through some the hardest times of my life. Just when I think I have gotten over somethinbg something new comes up. For instance, buying her a birthday card for the first time and actually having someone to send it to sent me into a tail spin for days. She had said I could call her on her birthday but when I did she would not answer the phone. So I had to leave a message on her phone. She wouldn't talk to me.
I can not understand why if the others don't invite her in she keeps pushing AND why she would take that out on me. I haven't heard from her in a week and I probably won't again. (just how I feel) In many ways that would be easier than having her come in and out. I suppose there is anger at me for giving her up and I know she is angry at her mother for not telling her she was adopted (but I can't help that) but she is the one that says you must be adult and accept what is. (this because my other kids are estranged too because of their fathers hatred for me) Believe me this is a long convoluted story. Bottom line I know you are right. But how do you build trust and relationship if you don't have contact? Denises mom

[Denisesmom]

Thank you for answering. I am not sure if I am actually answering to the right person, I am new but I am trying to answer Keds. So please tell me how old is your son? I think I had read one of your posts before I went to meet my daughter. I remember praying "don't let that happen to me". I just read something someone else had written in response to another post I had done and she said that maybe Denise just wants information. Well maybe she does but why did she come on so nice? I am older and honestly when you say you have the rest of your lives to figure it out you probably aren't as old as I am and hence have longer. I think that is part of my issue, knowing that I may not have that long, although I am healthy, I am older and time seems to be fleeting. I just wanted to have my duaghter in my life and be able to know her and love her. Both her adopt. parents are dead and she has no sibs in that family. I know it is hurting her that her bio sibs and biofa don't want her in their lives but I honestly think if she would back up and give them time they may come around. I think it was in the post from Austin that she said that the rejection she is feeling regarding them is causing her not to trust me. But I AM THE ONE WHO WANTS HER IN MY LIFE!! Sorry I get so angry not at Austin but at this whole situation. Have you been able to ask your son what is going on? Does he have a whole other family or is he an only? Do you think he is feeling guilty about possibly bringing you into his life and upsetting them? Just a thought. I am guess you know how I am feeling. Just when I think I am over part of this I hit a wall. I was telling Austin that I thought I was doing okay then it came her bday and I acutally got to buy her a card and send it to her a person. I fell apart for a few days. Just mounds of saddiness and grief waves..... I only got to talk to my daughter and see her one time a few emails and thats it. It is killing me. I look at the picture she gave me of her when she was two or three days old and I want to scream "that is MY baby" but I know even by then she was not and now I don't think she ever will be. Tears ......... (

[keds]

Denisesmom - hang in there! I'm not sure how to reply/post very well either and I've been doing this for awhile!

To answer your questions - bson is 28, has mom, dad and step-mom and 2 sisters (dad's kids with step mom). I haven't asked him what's going on in so many words - e-mail every month or so asking what's up (he's quick to respond and always cheery) but I'm always initiating contact, making myself available, etc. It's only since bdad and bsiblings have "decided" so to speak not to meet him that he's been distant (not sure if it's related or he's just busy). I'm a little sensitive, I guess.

I have a whole album - his life in pictures so to speak - and he told me there is a place in his life - I have to remember it's a place not "his life". Anyway, I am going through the 5 stages of grief - for sure! Denial that this was going to be as good as it gets, Anger - why doesn't he want to spend more time with me - I'm fun, loving, caring, and I'm in between anger and depression (not sure I'll get to acceptance and I skipped bargaining - who would I bargain with!).

I don't think he feels guilty because I have had no contact with his family and vice versa - he must get the compartmentalizing his life gene from me! I'm hoping to meet his girlfriend in the next year or so but maybe not. I always want what I can't have. Let's stick together and try and work through all of this -there is pain on all sides but, like you, I have trouble making sense of it all. I'm on the road for the next week (posts are limited to between flights) but send me a message any time.

(((HUGS)))

[Jackiejdajda]

Denisesmom

I will tell you from a professionals heart that not until you are in the middle of all this do you really know the depth of pain that this can cause.

Its grief work to me..

I had gone 45 years, yes I wanted to know her, yes I was sad at times but I did not know the extent that trying not to feel the pain of the loss took on me emotionally and physically. I am now going through some the hardest times of my life.

I will post to the new ones just relinquishing that seeing a therapist is well and good but its about grief to me..
I used to wish I had had a Irish wake when I gave my son up in 1965.. Weeping and wailing and fighting and hugging..
But no.. I could not speak of my son.. I think that is when some of us are real damaged.. and it all comes to for in reunion.. (some as always..)

Just when I think I have gotten over somethinbg something new comes up. For instance, buying her a birthday card for the first time and actually having someone to send it to sent me into a tail spin for days.

I could not go into a store and buy gifts.. Toys for the grandbabies.. I could not do it.. I would walk in and walk out..
So what I did was go on the internet sites that sell toys.. and books.. and I sent them gifts after clicking buttons.. and filling in info..
It helps..

She had said I could call her on her birthday but when I did she would not answer the phone. So I had to leave a message on her phone. She wouldn't talk to me.

I would call my bson and I got a phone message of him and the kids saying wonderful cute things.. I ended up not able to call..
Took me out every time..

I can not understand why if the others don't invite her in she keeps pushing AND why she would take that out on me.

When it was early times for me in reunion I can remember telling myself to stay out of the negative thinking.. Just stop it..
Let the thing go down as it will.. and take care of me..

I haven't heard from her in a week and I probably won't again. (just how I feel) In many ways that would be easier than having her come in and out.

Look for the long haul.. Wating it to all happen at once is a fantasy.. Watch out for the fantasy..

I suppose there is anger at me for giving her up and I know she is angry at her mother for not telling her she was adopted (but I can't help that) but she is the one that says you must be adult and accept what is. (this because my other kids are estranged too because of their fathers hatred for me) Believe me this is a long convoluted story. Bottom line I know you are right. But how do you build trust and relationship if you don't have contact?

I went for a year with no contact.. I gave him up and said if you want to know me.. me who I am now (<my thinking) I am here..
Me with all my foibles and crappy bits.. etc

He called.. and after he called.. one year later.. I had a sense of my own personal power.. I knew he knew who I was as I had told him a lot of my crappy bits and he still wanted a relationship.. it was equal after that..

Jackie

[Denisesmom]

Originally Posted by keds

Denisesmom - hang in there! I'm not sure how to reply/post very well either and I've been doing this for awhile!

To answer your questions - bson is 28, has mom, dad and step-mom and 2 sisters (dad's kids with step mom). I haven't asked him what's going on in so many words - e-mail every month or so asking what's up (he's quick to respond and always cheery) but I'm always initiating contact, making myself available, etc. It's only since bdad and bsiblings have "decided" so to speak not to meet him that he's been distant (not sure if it's related or he's just busy). I'm a little sensitive, I guess.

I have a whole album - his life in pictures so to speak - and he told me there is a place in his life - I have to remember it's a place not "his life". Anyway, I am going through the 5 stages of grief - for sure! Denial that this was going to be as good as it gets, Anger - why doesn't he want to spend more time with me - I'm fun, loving, caring, and I'm in between anger and depression (not sure I'll get to acceptance and I skipped bargaining - who would I bargain with!).

I don't think he feels guilty because I have had no contact with his family and vice versa - he must get the compartmentalizing his life gene from me! I'm hoping to meet his girlfriend in the next year or so but maybe not. I always want what I can't have. Let's stick together and try and work through all of this -there is pain on all sides but, like you, I have trouble making sense of it all. I'm on the road for the next week (posts are limited to between flights) but send me a message any time.

(((HUGS)))

I got a short impersonal email today from Denise. I didn't know what to say. She did not ask for me to interact, nor did she ask how I was ect. So I answered back just as short, but can't be impersonal. Again stated I would love to have conversation with her.
I wish I could tell her how much I love her but in the very beginning I think I was too open and I don't think that is what she wants. She has said that she is on a quest for information. I think that is all she is wanting. It is me who has hoped for a relationship. I know some make it to that but I don't see it for us unfortunately. How I would love to have my daughter. This just sucks. I wish someone who has had a good experience would post so it would be possible to see some hope. I am trying to be realistic. I have a friend who just can't get why I am so emotional about this. (and she is a therapist!!!!) I truly don't think any one who hasn't gone through this level of rejection can possibly relate. I just don't.
So what do you mean when you say "I knew he knew who I was as I had told him a lot of my crappy bits and he still wanted a relationship.. it was equal after that.. ". What did you do for the year? Just stopped trying to communicate? That is what I am doing. No more pushing, no asking. Just tit for tat. If she initiates contact I am giving back to the exact extent she is giving. I was telling this friend of mine that I have to have to protect myself too. I hope that does not sound selfish, but I have learned the hard way that when you are down and out you really only have yourself. Being alone, if I allow this to eat me up I will not be able to care for myself at all. Is that what you meant by having a sense of personal power? I feel better when I feel that I am protecting myself and not just being batted around by others.

[JustPeachy]

How recently did you reconnect with your daughter? I would suggest taking things way, way, way slow. Also, if there are any support groups in your area for birthmoms in reunion, that would be a huge help. I attend support groups that include birthmoms and adult adoptees. Some are in reunion, some are thinking about it, and others are everywhere in between. It is really helpful to hear other people's stories. Also read as much as you can about adoption reunion. Do a search on Amazon.com for "adoption reunion" and start there.

[Jackiejdajda]

Denisesmom

So what do you mean when you say "I knew he knew who I was as I had told him a lot of my crappy bits and he still wanted a relationship.. it was equal after that.. ". What did you do for the year? Just stopped trying to communicate?

I stopped everything.. no cards no gifts and I just let him go..

I was on alt.adoption at the time posting like we post here and I told my friends that I was going to do it.. and they told me no.. do not cut him off.. But I did not cut him off.. I told him that I was here if he wanted to know me and he had my phone number..

What I did was tell myself that I had a life.. That he was okay and I had a life.. and I was terribly sick of worrying..
I would watch my emails I would think about him and what he was doing and if he was mad at me and why he was mad at me.. and what was wrong with me..
Circles..
I just stopped it.. and I gave him up again.. only this time I gave him up in order to save myself.. The last time was in order to save him..
Also I had done a lot of work on terms of loving myself.. and forgiving myself..
And understanding why I gave him up in the first place.. There was some stuff in me that was kicking back to the time I gave him up.. Triggers as the self help books say.. I would just go into that place in early reunion.. I would panic and go into the emotions of then..

I just said to me.. I am done with it..

He called.. and left a message on the phone in the middle of the nite..

It changed after that.. I had my own power after that.. there were no more “Now will you love me?” things happening..

I think the love we have for our relinquished sons and daughters is very complicated.. its full of so many emotions.. a love for a child.. a love for a dream a love for a unrequited thing.. Its emotion personified..
And when the contact gets wrong in early reunion we chew ourselves up.. or I did..

I can not fix it.. I could not fix it.. If he was angry with me so be it.. so be it..
I did my best and I can not go back and change it.. it’s done..

That is what I am doing. No more pushing, no asking. Just tit for tat. If she initiates contact I am giving back to the exact extent she is giving. I was telling this friend of mine that I have to have to protect myself too. I hope that does not sound selfish, but I have learned the hard way that when you are down and out you really only have yourself.

I think the core of it is one needs to understand that you can not go back and change a single thing..
Its impossible.. and if she is into some hard stuff.. and she is taking it out on you.. all you can do is wait till she is ready to communicate..
In twelve step program one of the steps is the making amends step.. saying you are sorry..
Yes you may have been forced to give her up and or circumstances may have forced it and so on and so on..
But the amends step is about you.. and what a person wants to ask for on terms of I am sorry I put you into these circumstances..
And or abandoned you.. what I went into for a while..

But then you do not do it again.. you do not abandon him or her again.. but you let them go and love them from afar..
You say you are sorry and then you do not do it again.. and get on with it..

Being alone, if I allow this to eat me up I will not be able to care for myself at all. Is that what you meant by having a sense of personal power?

I am who I am.. I am not ashamed of who I am.. even tho I was incredibly stupid in the days when I got pregnant with him and ran and lied and all that stuff.. I had to tell him I was into drugs for a long time.. I had to be who I do not think he liked very much..
I am a person that does not like showy wealth or dressing up to look good.. I am a person that does not like pretending with the world..
And I was worried that I would not fit in his world.. heck I would not fit in his world.. that is a done deal..

It’s the old codependent thing.. me being who I am not in order that he like me..
And feeling the rug pulled because of this..
And feeling ashamed of me because I was not a person that he could show off.. and who my mom would have liked.. who I did not measure up to and so on and so on..

I yam who I yam.. and when he called after that total cut off where he knew he could just take is info and get on with it and no problem what so ever.. I knew.. I could be who I really am with him and all is well..
Its such a strange thing this reunion thing.. strangers wanting to love one another and who have so much baggage on terms of each other.. its impossible if you stand back and really look at it.. and I am amazed when the reunion goes easy..
And in awe.. and happy for the ones that are into good stuff..

Its what keeps me coming back to boards like this.. this reunion that may or may not happen..

The human condition brought on by a simple solution all those years ago..
What the powers that be thought as a simple solution.. ha..

I feel better when I feel that I am protecting myself and not just being batted around by others.

You got to do it.. if you are in for the long haul..
It will make sure the reunion goes down.. If you stand in your own shoes and take care of you (all you can really do right) then she can take her time to sort what she needs to sort..

When I did my self help books thingee a few years back.. I read a group of words one says to a baby.. and the words that stuck out.. was..
“You have all the time you need to have your needs met.”

I think we need to do that for each other.. in reunion..

Jackie

[Janeytwo]

Dear Denisesmom,Hi.* My name is Janey.* I am new to this forum and on the opposite end of things in that I am just beginning to deal with the grief of giving my two babies up.* So, I don't have any experience in what it is to find our children but I would like to take a moment to suggest something to you if that would be all right.

I had not been able to find her due to laws in Il and b/c I had no memory of the event. I could not remember the day she was born

I am reading what you wrote here and I am wondering if it is possible that there are two things going on for you at once.* First you are dealing with the stress (I can only imagine how it must be) of discovering your daughter and the rollercoaster ride that must surely put a person on.But also, is it possible that you're suffering some kind of PTSD?* That all of the grief you felt is flying back at you with no way to cork the **** so to speak.* I only ask because I find myself in the same boat.* It is a terrible thing to be suddenly struck mute with grief, with realizations of what we lost.* I of course can't give any words of wisdom on how to deal with your daughter now that you've found her.* I would sound....well....rediculous.* But I wanted to say that, with the grief you are suffering, perhaps you need to slow down and really take care of yourself right now emotionally.* This is a powerful thing you are going through and from your other post it sounds as if are feeling very alone.** Jackie mentions in one of her posts her how she had to realize that she was bringing the triggers from the early days into her reunion issues.* I imagine it must be like this so much for women who go through this.* Finally, the chance to say all the things you wanted to say, to stop the pain, to take it all away for both of you.Sigh....I do not know if such a thing is possible in the short run....perhaps it is in the long run.* None of us can see the outcome of things from where we're currently at.* But you can take care of yourself, continue to reach out to the women here who've been where you are and also, if you just need a hug and someone to listen to your grief, I would be honored to hold your hand as an e-friend and walk with you.My heart goes out to you today,Janey

[julie23]

denisesmom... i wish i could sit and have a cup of tea with you... and most of these other ladies, too....

I am who I am.. I am not ashamed of who I am.. even tho I was incredibly stupid in the days when I got pregnant with him and ran and lied and all that stuff.. I had to tell him I was into drugs for a long time.. I had to be who I do not think he liked very much..
I am a person that does not like showy wealth or dressing up to look good.. I am a person that does not like pretending with the world..
And I was worried that I would not fit in his world.. heck I would not fit in his world.. that is a done deal..

my dear friend, jackie... have i told you lately how much i love you? you are an amazing woman... and just perfect the way you are...

j

[Janeytwo]

Hey Jackie,

I just stopped it.. and I gave him up again.. only this time I gave him up in order to save myself

Hmmm...good point. I am remembering a woman in recovery who's son found her. (Sigh...I sat across from her for five years before she never knew about me. I didn't trust her. A 25 year member. How sad for me.)

Anyway, he was an addict and pushed every button she had, including the "you owe me" button. It almost broke her and in the end she had to let go. It came down to his unfeedable needs or her own survival. Talk about the choice of Solomon!

But she did let him go. And then of course....the scorn of others started. The "how could you do that!?" "how could you give up on him twice?!"

Even a judge carried that torch to her home to burn her with it so to speak. Initially when her son found her she'd let him live in her house. After coming home one night and finding half her stuff gone, sold for drugs, she made a decision and went to court to have him evicted. The judge called her "the worst mother I've ever seen."

What a mess.

even tho I was incredibly stupid in the days when I got pregnant with him and ran and lied and all that stuff.. I had to tell him I was into drugs for a long time.. I had to be who I do not think he liked very much..

Incredibly stupid? No Jackie...so many hugs your way my brave friend. Not stupid. Just human....like the rest of us homo-sapiens.

I understand though. I am not sure I fear so much the questions my children might ask me because probably they're the same ones my daughters have asked me when they are frightened or vulnerable. Mom...has there ever been a time when you didn't love me?

My answer is always the same. "No I have never not loved you. But there have been times when I hated myself."

Mom, have you ever done drugs? Yes. I have. (And I mean heck let's face it. It was the 70's. My grandmother smoked pot!!) That joke was between me and you by the way. LOL! I've never said that to my daughters. I don't think they'd appreciate the humor.

Its what keeps me coming back to boards like this.. this reunion that may or may not happen.. The human condition brought on by a simple solution all those years ago.. What the powers that be thought as a simple solution.. ha..

:-) I don't know if this is appropriate to share but I've always secretly thought God was a 19 year old guy roaring down the road in a 70 Roadrunner 440 Wedge, shifting gears at will, wind in His hair, a giant you-know-what eating grin plastered on His face. And I think if I were to ask Him why He couldn't come up with a better solution than adoption....I can see Him saying something Motor-City-eese like, "What d'ya want from me Janey man? I don't drive no friggin pimped out Bentley!"

No easy answers; even for the Universe.

Much hugs to ya!

Janey

[Denisesmom]

have you found/are you looking for you birth parents? I can not tell you how bad I feel about this whole adoption thing. I was told to forget it he/she will be taken good care of and I must say from what Denise has told me she did okay. How ever if I had even THOUGHT that my giving her up would hurt her I would have died. That was not my intention. Now I find I have found my daugher, or she found me, and it breaks my heart that I can't have her in my life. I do love her you know.
Yes I know she is facing some really really hard stuff. I hate it for her. How I wish this had never happened. Thank you for the input.

[Denisesmom]

Jackie
I think that is really where I am at with this. I have a friend who just does not understand my need to back off and she calls it "shutting the door". What ever you call it I have to do it. I have to. I will not be able to go on if I don't. While I have not told Denise those words I probably will at some point. My guess is she has noticed that I am not emailing like I used to (every day) and I find that even though I check to see if she emailed I don't go into a tail spin when I see she hasn't. Ya know part of what I am worried about is that if she is able to get response from her father he will brain wash her like he has my other three children who will btw have noting to do with me b/c I get half his retirement that after being marred to him for 26 years and him having another woman. He is a charmer and I am scared that she will surcomb to his charms and end up hating me too. I worry that maybe I am doing it before she can and maybe somewhere deep inside that is true but I it certainly is not the driving force to my putting the distance between us. I just can't continue on the path I was on, begging, conjoling ect. I know I can not make her love me and I don't know that she ever will. I remember when I was getting ready to meet her how worried I was that I wasn't pretty and that I was over weight and that she would find me disgusting. I think I still wonder about that. It is late for us she is 45 and I am 60. She only recently found out she was adopted and I am sure that is going to take some time when she slows down long enough to deal with it. I truly feel blessed to know she is alive, she is healthy, relatively happy. I can't imagine trying to get my head around finding out I was adopted at 45. D*** her adoptive parents. Ya know that was the one thing I asked that the child would be told he/she was adopted and they could not honor that one request. If they had had their way she would have never found out. I can only imagine the feelings she is having and b/c her mom died she can't even confront her about it. Kinda leaves her holding a fist full of s---!!!! Sorry but that is how I feel. I am angry too, obviously . They hurt my baby how selfish they were
So thank you for the words of wisdom. I don't know what or when I will approach the issue with Denise I am good at avoiding but I probably will. Thanks again