[Peggysue]

Hi Everyone,

I am trying to understand the nature of God as our Father. I see Him as holy, awesome and powerful, but I struggle with understanding the more gentle aspects of His nature. Many of you have mentioned, on other threads, about how God is gently helping you with your adoption journey, and I long to see Him like that myself. I know He is helping me but I wish I could feel loved in that way.

I see natural fathers uncritically loving their infants. They seem to delight in them. I never knew my birth father and am questioning whether this is affecting my view of God. I loved my adoptive father immensely. He was a good man, taking care to provide for his family, ensuring I received a good education and teaching me right from wrong. I was a child in 1950s England and men did not show their emotions as they do today. Dad was in the Navy (imagine Sir John Mills in a war film!) and was expected to show a stiff upper lip. Nowadays I find it relatively easy to trust God for practical things: job money etc, but much harder to understand that He cares about my emotions. Is this because of my experience of my earthly father? Does anyone else find this to be true? How can we understand God as our Heavenly FATHER, as well as a righteous judge and all the other things He is?

I just want to add that knowing my afather had human failings, as we all do, doesn't make me love him (in my memory; he died years ago) any less. In fact I love him more as I see his vulnerability. I just want to get an accurate picture of this side of God's nature and know some divine comfort in my adoption journey.

I would love to hear your views.

Blessings to all,

Peggysue

[BrockBaby]

Peggysue,
I totally understand where you are coming from. As I stated in previous posts God has been taking be on a wonderful journey of healiing this past year. Starting back in July, God really showed me how badly I needed healing. It all started at a Sunday Evening Service. Afterwards, I began going to a dear friends home once a week to discuss things. I LOVE my mom to death, but I've never really been able to talk to her about a lot of things. Well, during one of these sessions I was discussing the fact that I had always trusted my adad for my shelter, clothes, food, ect...but that I could never trust him for emotional support. I then looked at Jenny and said, You know sorta like God, I trust Him for salvation, but not my emotions. After that was out of my mouth, we both stopped and stared at each other. Until that moment I had never realized that I didn't trust God emotionally. Jenny was like, "I think we have found a root problem here!" God is so good to us. He WANTS to reveal these things to us so that we can deal with them and continue our journey in Him. I feel we need to be seeking God, so that we can bring to the light these wrong ideas and ways of thinking that we've developed over the course of our lives. It is when we realize something, that we can ask God to help us with the problem. Since that revelation, I have asked God to help me trust Him. To help me see how He is not a man, but God. That if I can trust Him for my salvation that I can also trust Him with my emotions. So yes, trust has been an issue with me. I still struggle at times with trust.
I think it is really good that you brought this topic up. So many times we like to "sugar coat" everything, add a Praise The Lord and act as though everything is wonderful! God, however, wants us to share with each other our needs, our questions, our doubts. It is when we share and discuss these types of things that we can grow, stretch, and heal from those things that have happened to us.
Many blessings...

[shef]

hi PeggySue...
I also live in the UK, and understand about the culture of that time.......about how some families were...and fathers with their children. So many were physically present, but not emotioanlly available,or knew how to be.
For me, my lack of fathering in my life has definetily caused difficulty in my knowing God as Father, plus how I felt about my origions .....but part of that is becasue I believed I did not need a father in my life...and therefore have had diffiuclty in accepting God is interested in me. I have made the wrong decsion to see him too much like earthly fathers, and have placed an image on him that is not in line with scripture. I didnt realise that until recent times.....a bit like Alysa has said about God has shown her how she wasnt trusting him in certain areas.

I am really glad you did have good memories of you afather......I dont have much to draw on...and so part of my life is bringing these great gaps in my life for a father to God and asking him to help me, to fill it, to help me see him and relate to what he says about himself.....to let him love me, and to hold me.....to allow myself to beleive that he would even come and want to pick me up and be gentle with me......its such a learning process for so many of us....and so good we can travel this way together.......

xxshefalie

[Peggysue]

Hi Brockbaby, Shef and Everyone,

Thank you for your replies. Brockbaby, I couldn't believe how similar to mine your experience of trusting God for practical things but not emotional issues was. Shef, I think you're right when you say that men didn't know how to emotionally relate to their children, and that we need to look at scripture to see what God is like. I'm sorry you didn't have much experience of a father, and pray that God can heal that gap.

It seems that all three of us, and probably others too, need to trust God in this area. And I want to - the concept of a God I can talk to about anything and who wants to hold me and help me feel safe is lovely. I just struggle to see that He is like that. It seems too good to be true! You both spoke of having wrong ideas of God and I believe I have too. Like you, God has been revealing things to me. Years ago, in a prayer meeting, a lady said that "the fear and sorrow are not from Him". I knew that was God speaking to me. Until then I had felt tremendous sorrow and desolation. I still get the feelings sometimes, but God reminds me that they are not from Him.

Something God is showing me at the moment, is that my pre-adoption experiences have become muddled up with Christianity causing me to have a wrong view of the latter. I'm only just understanding what happened and will write more when it's clarified in my mind.

I found Psalm 103 comforting, especially verses 4,5: "who redeems your life from the pit and crowns you with love and compassion, who satisfies your desires with good things so that your youth is renewed life the eagle's." Are there any scriptures which particularly speak to you?

One way in which I think He is caring for us is to bring us to this site. As you've both mentioned, it is wonderful to share this journey with others who have similar ones.
Thank you.

Blessings,

Peggysue

[Jody M]

Thanks Peggy Sue for asking this question! A really key and important one for all of us adoptees and even those who are not adoptees. Our earthly experience with our parents is ideally supposed to be a glimpse of our Heavenly Father's parenting of us- but sadly we live in an earthly and fallen world and we all fall short of what God intends so earthly parents can at time show God's character, but other times grossly fail .God our Father is our only Perfect Parent and He is the only one who can claim to have been with us all the days of our lives-(and in the womb) every one and has never left us or abandoned us- just because we knew He was not there at times, does not mean He was not lovingly watching us and longing for our love and affection and obedience.

There is an EXCELLENT book I have heard of and read reviews of called Always Daddy's Girl by H. Norman Wright. It focuses on just this topic being discussed.
Here is a short review of it:
Book Description
No matter how old she is, a woman's relationship with her father-whether it was wonderful or painful-had an impact on the person she is today. Her relationship with men, her career and her feelings about herself have all been shaped by her father, whether she realizes it or not. Now, with the help of noted marriage and family counselor H. Norman Wright, women can begin to understand how their fathers had a profound effect on their emotions and behaviors as adults.

About the Author
H. NORMAN WRIGHT is a licensed marriage, family and child therapist and is a certified trauma specialist. He serves on the faculty of Talbot School of Theology at Biola University and is former director of their Graduate Department of Marriage, Family and Child Counseling. He is the best-selling author of more than 70 books, including Communication: Key to Your Marriage, Quiet Times for Couples and Always Daddy's Girl. He is a member of the Academy of Bereavement, Critical Incident Stress Foundation, The Association of Traumatic Stress Specialists and a board member of The Victim Chaplain Association. Norm and his wife, Joyce, have been married more than 40 years and live in California

My mother has been my nuturer and warm person in my life. My adoptive father loved me and as others said about their dads- provided for me- and was a hard worker and upright person- but did not emotionally support me. I did notice the last months of his life- when he finally received Jesus as Lord- then he became very tender and loving and affirming of me- more than ever before- IT WAS WONDERFUL, though short and I savored it. My grandfathers were the same as my dad. My foster father from 2-7 mos of age was a good provider but not a warm person from what I learned from my foster sister I met on my search journey. I also heard my birth father was tough- an alcoholic and unpredicatable, had a temper and in later years, after my sisters left home and in his golden years- was a volunteer foster grandparent and written up in newspapers- making up for lost time. So none of the men in my life were the warm nuturing but I was not exposed to any abuse or extreme anger for my dad by adoption was quite a passive man.
Met alot of warm men at my churches through the years who mirrored Christ, the shepherding nature.

Sorry so long!
Blessings, Jody

[Peggysue]

Jody, thank you for your reply. And it wasn't too long - it was interesting! I'll have a look for the book you recommend.

What you said about the change in your afather after salvation really struck me. That must have been a glimpse of your heavenly Father, who brought about the change in him. How wonderful! It shows us that God is tender and loving, which I've always longed to believe but find hard to trust as it seems to good to be true.

One reason I think I find it hard to see that side of God is because of His holiness and righteous wrath at sin. Maybe I need to take on board more fully, that my sin is paid for and his wrath abated by Jesus' sacrificial death. So He sees me as His child, certainly not a perfect one but one who is no longer under condemnation. I feel sometimes that I have to jump hoops to please people. Does anyone else find that? Good behaviour merits approval. Maybe I'm still feeling that I have to earn God's approval instead of enjoying that fact that I have it, because He died for me and I have accepted Him as my Saviour.

Blessings,

Peggysue

[Jody M]

Thanks Peggysue - Yes, How beautiful GOD's GRACE is all about! Unearned, unmerited favor towards us because of what JESUS has done- nothing in ourselves. So when those condeming thoughts come to us we know they are not from God but from the enemy- I love the scripturet that says- commands "Take EVERY thought captive to the obedience of God" As soon as negative thoughts come, attack- do not let them in or they grow and add other negative defeating thoughts and oppress you and bring you down.

And YES, my Dad softened so much after he accepted Christ- it was beautiful! I remember the last time I saw him and was leaving to catch my plane back home- he cried and said he would likely never see me again- so touching- my mom lost it too! What God can do to a heart remolded with his love and grace- and YES it was a glimpse, ever so brief but beautiful of my First and Forever Heavenly Father's unconditional love for me.

Blessings today! And Fix your thoughts on JESUS!
Jody

[shef]

oh Peggy Sue......CAn I jump in here..after all the good things Jody has said.....and say though, I do relate only too well to what you say about good behviour merits approval, and how I often think that if I do this ok, or that ok, then God approves of me too, but if I dont then I beat myself up.....instead it is waht Jody says, unconditional love.....uncondtional....unconditional love.......and full of Grace.......I have jumped so many people hoops, taht my legs are worn out!
that is an important statement, sometimes we are so bsuy striving to earn...what we already have been given...we just dont knowhow to receive it and enjoy it...and just live in the truth of it......

I realsied in part this, when I never really was able to apprecaite what my foster mother had done for me....and the love she gave to me her way...and i was always busy thinking up ways to make it more secure taht she would love me, and all the time she did, but I couldnt see it.....and sometimes we are so busy looking for what we dont have, and overlooking waht has already been given to us......well I am speakin gfor myself of course.

bless you Jody and peggy sue.

thankyou, Shefalie

[fgabriel09]

I do know that the way we see our earthly fathers can affect how we see our heavenly Father. I can't see that the fact that your earthly father was an adoptive parent could have anything but a positive influence on how you see God. After all, God has adopted us through Jesus.

[Jody M]

Thanks Shef and fgabriel for sharing! Yes Shef- GRACE is what God offers us- a free gift- unmerited, unearned because of His love for us- we DO have to remind ourselves for earthly love is imperfect and always seems to have strings attached or can begin great and human nature demands its desires and ways.
It is good to reframe our adoption journey , understanding our birth mothers and the struggles and challenges they went through, and culture they lived within socially . We can then more fully embrace and appreciate the awesome gift of life we have been given.
And Yes fgabriel, We do tend to look at God through the window of our earthly parents. And we adoptees do get a better glimpse of God's adoption of us as His children.
Blessings and thanks all for sharing!
Jody

[Peggysue]

Hi Everyone,

Jody - what you said is so true about us having unmerited favour with God because of Jesus' death in our place. It is so good!! Shef - I know what you mean about jumping hoops and beating yourself up. I wonder why we do this? Is it because we were relinquished by our first parents? We've all had either foster or adoptive parents who loved us, even if we didn't fully realise it at the time, so why do we feel we have to earn God's love?

Fgabriel - I see what you're saying. My adoption experience was good, although I wish in those days there had been more support for adoptive families in dealing with the issues of relinquishment and living in a new family. What happened to me before adoption was not so good and it is this with which I am struggling and somehow it colours my view of God, but I don't fully understand why. I feel worthless, but I must remember that to God I was worth His son dying for me. I see you are intending to adopt one day. Nowadays I think people are more aware of the issues an adopted child has to deal with. Under the closed adoption system they were surpressed causing problems in later years. Hopefully your children will not have to go through that, and the fact that you are taking an interest in adoption issues now bodes well for their future.

Blessings,

Peggysue

[shef]

Hi peggy Sue.
Can I ask you, how old were you when you were adopted then?
I have had issues from the time before I was fosterd with my family..which has had an impact on me and my development stages and things. I never realsied it before, but becasue I had not much recollection just sensory things, i didnt think they were real.....but God is not limited by our non memories is he...he wants to deal with all causes to us stopping going forward so i am learning.

I am not sure why we cant seem to accept the love of our adoptive parents without feeling we have to be approved of.
I think that becasue i was in an orpahange for 3 years something foundational has been missing somewhere.

shefalie

[Peggysue]

Hi Shef,

I was a year old when I went to my aparents and 18 months when the adoption took place, so I have no conscious memory of the time beforehand. For years I have thought, and my friends assumed, that I couldn't be affected by that time. However I was praying with a couple of friends about this when one of them had a picture of a baby being well-cared for physically, but ignored emotionally. I think God was telling us that is what happened to me.

I have felt great distress at times, which I could not get rid of, so I asked Him why not. He said the answer so clearly it was almost as if He had actually spoken. He said "It came before language". In other words the source of these bad feelings came from the time of life before I could put them into concepts or thoughts. To me they were sensations.

As I thought about it I realised that a new-born baby would only have sensations. They don't understand the world around them and must have a limited perception of the shapes they see. If I remember rightly one of the first identifiable features to them is their mother's face. Instintively they know her I believe. I think another permanent caregiver can take her place, although some would argue that it is not the same. I have heard it said that absence of care, or a continual change of carers such as in a children's home, can cause the baby to feel distress.

You say that you were in an orphanage until you were three. You also speak of sensory things. Maybe you have been affected in a similar way. Some people think that it is only the things we remember that can hurt us, but I don't believe that's true. Sub-consciously we can learn things too. I think those who have been denied their mother's love have a wound that natural children do not have.

My amother whom I loved greatly gave me that love and security I craved, but she could not undo the effect of my first year of life. When I was with her it was fine, but when I wasn't the old feelings surfaced and have done so throughout my life. That is what I meant when I said it was the time before adoption which had been a problem.

I will pray that God reveals to you the areas you missed out on in your early childhood and for Him to heal them. Do you have people who will seek God about this with you?

Jody has mentioned Isaiah 61. If I could use this as a basis for a prayer: Father God, I lift before you Shef, myself and all others on this site who have been relinquished from bmothers. Please will you heal us and provde for those of us who grieve, bestow on us a crown of beauty instead of ashes, give us gladness instead of mourning and a spirit of praise instead of despair. Thank you Jesus that your death makes this possible, and may you receive the glory for our healing. Amen.

Blessings to all

Peggysue

[Peggysue]

Hi Everyone,

I said, in an earlier posting, that I would write more when I had understood why my pre-adoption experiences had become muddled up with Christianity. Now I'm beginning to see what is happening.

We have spoken, on other threads, about the frozen baby which lives inside adoptees. Well, I think baby Peggysue has been going to church! In other words I have been attending services, meetings etc, not just as an adult but also as a needy baby. While the adult part of me can deal with the challenges of the gospel and Christian living, for the baby it is too harsh. She just wants to feel loved; to hear that God loves her. PERIOD. Not He loves her but wants her to do this, accept that, cope with the other. She's new-born: it's too much for her! She just wants a mother (or Father's) unconditional love. Of course the adult Peggysue knows there is work to be done, people to be prayed for, needs to be met. But the baby Peggysue feels bereft and overburdened. So I see God as a demanding, rather than a loving, God because I'm still craving acceptance as a new-born baby.

Does this make sense to anyone??

Peggysue

[Jody M]

Hi Peggy Sue- sorry for the lateness of this reply. Yes, I believe that adoptees and fostered children and others who have faced separation from their birth parents can definately have these circumstances impact ones thoughts of God and the expectations of them as a Christian.
A person who is adopted or fostered knows that someone left them- and for some they perceive this as abandonment (even if the decision was the best possible and the most loving of the birth parents due to their circumstances) This may cause the baby/child emotionally to feel unworthy, unloved, full of flaws, and this can progress to the baby/child to not trust adults or caregivers to love them. I also think babies can deposit these wrong notions in their "emotional" bank and how we view those closest to us- or those we should depend on- give us a glimpse of how we see God. Ideally in a perfect world, parents are supposed to follow God and mirror His character as a parent with unconditional love. So you see that when this cycle is broken due to circumstances where the parent cannot fulfill their role as parent- the baby can interpret being unloved, unworthy, flawed. And then they can view God as one who abandons, is a judge who sees them as flawed and one to be abandoned or forgotten. Yes, it may seem like a stretch to some, but I do see that unresolved feelings in adoption loss and separation can truly have spiritual ramifications unless corrected in one's thinking.
And when this cycle happens with wrong perceptions by the baby/child, then when they do get placed in a loving home or have loving caregivers, or are offered love in future relationships- they have built up an emotional "wall of protection" which sadly keeps people out and from getting too close to them. As if to say " I will reject you before you reject me" This can also happen in their relationship with God- not being able to receive love. The person's thinking has to be corrected and transformed by truth, processing the facts from their beginnings and being transformed by God's WORD, prayer and fellowship with loving Christians.
I see this cycle over and over with adoptees, fosters and those who were separated from their birth parents.
Thanks Peggy Sue- Do any others have feedback on this topic, personal experiences with this??

Lord, Be with all those who struggle with issues of identity and wrong perceptions of their birth, adoption. May they see that you created them in your image to be loved and cherished. You truly danced the day they were born. Draw them to yourself, Oh Gentle Shepherd. May they see you as you are, most loving Perfect Father. And transform their thinking and emotions with the Word of God and prayer. Touch those who inwardly continue to struggle with issues of abandonment and emotional pain from their beginnings. Heal them and may they turn ashes to beauty and may they sing a new song of praise to you. In Jesus name. Amen

PS. I am going to begin an online bible study for adoptees and those fostered called "Parenting Us- How God Does It" by David and Karen Mains later in March. I have some workbooks for a small fee and postage/handling. There are 12 lessons in the book and looking for those committed to doing the study and homework weekly. I believe the more we see God for who He is and his role as our Perfect loving Parent- it can peel away the layers of wrong thinking and identity/image issues and our ability to give and receive love in our emotions. Would love to know those who are interested.

Blessings, Jody