[flowermom]

Has anyone seen it? I am not sure if we are allowed to list websites but it is on a popular video site. It was really sad and disturbing. I didn't think Cgina had a child trafficking problem but this points that is does. I am not sure what to make of it and since I am just new at this if others can tell me their feelings about the "real" stories I would love to hear. Has anyone asked their agency about it? I want to go to China b/c I believe there is a need but some agencies have told me that the demand just is not there that is why the program slowed down. We just don't know what to think!

[KarenInCa]

Flowermom-

Are you referring to this video? YouTube - China's Stolen Children (Part 1 of 9)
If so, it's a good video to watch. It's hard to watch though.

It is very heart wrenching. The situation is more complex than it seems. The part of the video that got to me the most, is where it showcases a couple that are too young to get married legally, and so they could not keep their first born, because that too would be illegal. So, they sold the baby to the trafficker who promised the child would get the lifestyle given to her by a rich couple within China.

No one really knows why the slow down of the referrals, or if it will pick up after the Olympics. But after watching the 9 parts to the video, I don't think the slow down is related to this kind of trafficking, directly.

I watched the video above, several months ago. I find it odd that it's surfacing again, so close to the Olympics. If you watch the video though, the trafficking in that video is domestic. People sell their babies to the traffickers who then sell the babies to people in China for a mark up. I'm sure that is an option that some people in China consider because they can get paid for the baby instead of taking the risk of being caught leaving the baby somewhere. They might believe the child will be adopted to a wealthy couple in China instead of chancing the prospect of growing up in an orphanage. Some people in China still think that the government takes care of all children found, and do not know about IA, so it's possible that some parents who sell their babies to traffickers think this is the only way their child will have parents. And the people that buy the babies probably think they are getting healthier children than a child that's been in an orphanage for a given period of time. Im sure a trafficker with a good reputation can choose very seemingly healthy babies, that match the criteria given by the "new" parents.
As B-parents, that might be the only consideration they have to ensure their child is raised by parents. You have to remember that news in China is much different than in the US. The people are spared information that might be politically charged, such as IA. So, Im sure there are a lot of people that do not know IA occurs from orphanages. It would be easy to assume that all the children in orphanages are raised by the government.
I have a friend who went to China with his wife to teach in China for one year, and took their two children (adopted from China). And her colleagues knew about IA, but assumed they were raising the children in the US as guardians....and that they were going to return the children to China after their two girls turned 18. These were educated people from China, that thought of IA, at best, as a guardianship and could not grasp international adoption as it really is.

I have heard of one case in the past, where traffickers were taking "pretty" babies from parents and selling them to officials in orphanages in Hunan Province, but that became very publicized, and those guilty were prosecuted. Quite honestly, being that we do not choose our children, having more "pretty" babies really isn't something I would think is important for most orphanages.
Whether or not there are less babies, I don't know. But the only way that this story relates to less or more babies in orphanages, is that it's one resource birth parents use to keep their children out of the orphanages. And I would wager to say that trafficking within China, without children being taken to orphanages has probably been happening since long before the referrals slowed down.

[Lissa]

Sadly, people have been selling children in China for several years. Pre-cultural revolution it was common place to go to impromptu black marketesque meeting places after hours and find dozens upon dozens of people selling children for "adoption", for work and even prostitution. (There is a very good movie called the King of Masks that has a scene that depicts this practice--very good movie made in Hong Kong.) Due to the high profile the Olympics is affording China and due to their more open door policies we are hearing more and more about these sorts of dealings. As the one child policy has slowed some of the "business" of people buying and selling their own children, it's natural that kidnapping would be on the uprise. I am not saying IA has not also affected these numbers, but thusfar there is no evidence that this corruption exists beyond the literal drop in the bucket and that Chinese IA is still extremely fair and honest. I do believe that the number of children available is dropping but there is strong evidence and actual reports coming out of China this is due to the alarming gender imbalance China is facing. They are working towards "evening the numbers" by encouraging domestic adoption and by advancing a strong ad campaign in first in urban and now rural areas promoting the worth of women in their culture.
I am no longer eligable to adopt from China due to my diabities and weight, but were I able, I would still adopt, confident that the corruption in China is being contained to a minimum.

[flowermom]

for the wonderful explanations. I just hate the thought of my baby being stolen from her birthmother. I just can't even fathom that but your info has helped!

I just like to know as much as we can Some many agencies are very open about things and today another one told me that yes domestic adoption is ont he rise and all the "pretty and healthy" babies will be ending up in domestic adoption as it is now seen as a status symbol to have a girl! The said the face of CHina adoptions is changing and that most will be if not all in a few yrs. special needs whether it be minor or severe.

So I guess we will look into some of the special needs we feel we can handle. It seems referrals come pretty quick for them with in a yr. this agency said.

[KarenInCa]

It's difficult to speculate the time for SN referrals. It really depends on how many children are available for the SNs you are open to.
I strongly suggest reading about the SNs though. It sounds like you will. Keep in mind also, that the child you select might have other SNs that you might not be prepared for.
For instance, a child with a repaired minor cleft might need speech therapy down the road, even though it was already repaired and considered minor at the time of referral. Or there might be follow up surgeries. This is just an example, obviously. But, it's good to know what other issues can be related to the one thing that's listed. And you can't really depend on an agency to have information or share with you all of the symptoms of a particular SN. There are probably a lot of APs that can give you info about SN if you decide to take that path.
I think on average it's about half the wait though. I think 1 year is on the side of earliest time frame.
Keep us posted.

[SofiasMom]

It isn't just happening domestically. Back in 2005, a Hunan Province orphanage director was arrested for baby trafficking and CCAA closed down international adoptions from that region.

Allegedly the director of the Hengyang County orphanage (an orphanage that participates in the international adoption program) brokered kidnaped children into his orphanage, as well as orphanages in other Provinces.

$3,000 for a baby is a lot of money. This is also why Chinese citizens find it difficult to adopt - the orpahange makes more money in international adoption.

[Lissa]

Child trafficking happens all over the world, including the United States. It is unfortunate but true. There is no evidence that any children brought into the US have been victims of trafficking. They have found plenty of evidence of domestic trafficking however. I am not saying that trafficking has never occured with a child who was adopted internationally, only that it occurs rarely.

As for the $3000 donation. I don't know about every orphanage in China but I do know that my daughter lived in an SWI that was international only. No domestic adoptions occured through her SWI. She was transferred from a domestic only facility to an international only due to a medical concern that they felt would make her a better IA canidate. (Nothing serious--and she was not listed as SN. We were made aware of the condition in China and were given the option to back out of the adoption.) Had she still been at the other facility she might have been adopted domestically. A lot of the problem concerning domestic adoption is that families are still fined for having more than one child regardless of birth status. So if you have a biological child then adopt you pay not only the adoption fees (Which are less for domestic) but you also must pay the fine. Also there is a HUGE stigma regarding adoption in China. This is what many officials are working to change (along with the societal preference for boys.)

Much of this will be changing relatively soon. China has announced plans to begin a 10 year phase out of the Once Child Policy in 10 years. Even now it has been relaxed in many areas. Where Lydia was left it is not enforced at all.

I don't pretend to be an expert in all this. Whenever you adopt, there is risk. All I know is from the research I have done, China is still one of the safest and most integrous programs available.

[mdaisyq]

I don't think the stigma towards domestic adoption is as big as you think. The director of one of the agencies we used, visited a friend of hers who is an orphanage director at the Guangzhou City Orphanage. She reported that there was a waiting list of 700 domestic families to adopt from this orphanage.

I hate to say this, but many Chinese families are interested in adopting SN children, as well. I know that several local families had wanted to adopt our son (repaired CL/CP, hernia - unrepaired cleft gum) when he was at least 2 years old. The director of his orphanage did not know she could have pulled his files from the CCAA and allowed him to be adopted domestically. It broke my heart when I found this out - he could have stayed in China. We are the first and only IA from his orphanage.

I know you don't want to think about this, but who told you the reason for your daughter's orphanage transfer to the IA only orphanage? your agency? the orphanage director?

As the parent of a child adopted from an orphanage which I only recently found out has had incidents of trafficking, I can tell you that it really does happen, even though we don't want to believe it. Also, there was a child abducted and trafficked into this orphanage. Unlike with Hunan, no arrests were made even though the information was in the local news - this type of activity has been going on for over 5 years at this orphanage.

And, there is a case of a trafficked child that has been adopted into the US. It is an awful situation for the adoptive family, who are aware of the trafficking.

[Lissa]

I agree there are many families who are interested in domestic adoption. This is new as the stigma of adopting in China is changing. It is something the Chinese government has been working on for years. Please remember that 700 people on a waiting list in the United States is a much different number than in China where the population is well over a billion.

I never said trafficking never occured with International Adoption only that it is a drop in the bucket when compared to other countries.

As for the status of my daughters SWI, I have to admit I kinda resent your implying that I don't know what I am talking about concerning this issue. The information is on her official CCAA documents, in addition I had a long discussion with the Orphanage director at the facility because he wanted to adopt Lydia himself. He was unable to do so do to her international only status. I am sure he could have pulled strings (he has 4 adopted daughters) but he was concerned about a minor medical condition (one that did not put her in the SN catagory) and felt she would be better suited to living in America. He actually had input in choosing us as her parents. We stay in contact with him and Lydia refers to him as her Shushu.

Again...not saying trafficking never happens, only saying China is one of the safest programs out there. If I were still eligable. (I am not under the new rules.) I would still choose China over domestic and definately over just about any other country. (Though admittedly I am interested in Ethiopia.)

[Lissa]

I did not know about that one case among the tens of thousands of children adopted from China into the US either. That is horrible and I feel for the child and their parents. I agree that is a heartbreaking situation and hopefully one that won't be repeated anytime soon.

[KarenInCa]

That video showcases trafficking within China for domestic adoptions.
The only thing I don't like about it resurfacing is that it's being shown now, so close to the Olympics, and if someone doesn't really watch it they could easily raise assumptions that "China's Stolen Children" is referring to corruption in legal IA. When in fact, that particular video is about people within China doing things within China. It's a very well done video though.
But, I think with the thousands of children put into orphanages each year, there's a very VERY small percentage of children that are put into orphanages for IA via corruption. So small that it isn't normally brought to the forefront.
As for taking a child out of the IA track, I didn't know that could occur. It must not be that common though, because it seems the director did not even know it could happen.
This might sound strange, but I wouldn't be sad for my daughter if I would have found out later that someone else could have opted to adopt her (Chinese or not), because I truly believe we were meant to be together. IA is simply the path that got us to that point.

[flowermom]

After much thought I think I would feel the same way. I feel that most children would get a btter life over here. I was just reading one of my latest women magazines and it talked about how the young teenages in China are kept as basically "sex slaves" for their married boyfriends. It is starting to be seen s a a pride thing where the wealthy men now take care of their family and a little woman on the side. All of the girls that were interviewed said that it is the best life b/c they didn't want to be poor like their parents who only made $40 a month on the farms so they rather be someone's mistress! It was really sad b/c they don't know any better that they can have either own lives and make their own money without having to use their bodies or give up their self worth! They said as China becomes more developed this will become more popular.

[KarenInCa]

Flowermom, it's also important to remember that every case is different. Human nature throughout history has been responsible for exploiting those less fortunate...and for helping those less fortunate. I really hate talking in generalizations and calling it truth with a capital T. It's also possible that if our daughter was adopted by someone else, she would be content, or if she was not adopted-possibly her nanny would have given her enough love and support that as she got older, she would have grown up to make a huge impact on the lives of others, thru her own experiences. I can't honestly say that our daughter is better or worse than if she were not with us, but I feel as if our lives are more complete with her in it. And I hope that some day I will be honored by her sharing this thought. But there are no guarantees.
Our guide in China was a perfect example of that. He was raised in an orphanage, not because he was abandoned, but because his parents were both killed in an uprising. His life could have gone in either direction. But he came out of his experiences able to use them as strengths. He studied very hard and was able to go to college and became a college professor of history. But then quit his work at the university to become a guide for a couple of small IA agencies. His eventual goal was to bring one thousand children out of orphanages thru IA.
The most amazing thing about him was, although he grew up in an orphanage, when we were in our daughter's city, we learned so much (not just about China) about the city our daughter was from. Because of his background of being a history professor, and because of his own passion of thinking that knowing her heritage of HER home town, our guide spent a lot of time with us, showing and telling us of the history of HER city, as if he grew up there himself. And we could tell that was how he was in every city, with every parent of every child. I have the utmost respect for this man, and gratitude for his help and knowledge. Each child becomes HIS mission. I'm sure if he had his 'drothers, he would want to keep the children in China, but he also knows that a healthy family environment is equally as important as country of origin. So, he does what he can to educate the parents about the child's country and province and city of origin. I hope to be able to remember all that I learned, for my daughter.
Last we heard, he had found a baby last year that was abandoned, and was very ill. He took her to the hospital, and after she was nursed back to health, he and his wife adopted her. She is now 2 years old and I couldn't be more happy for him (or the baby).

[Lissa]

I'm not really comfortable saying my child is having a better life here in the United States. I am not going to assume that she would have fallen into a terrible situation just because she was still in China. We have our fair share of such situations (and others equally or even more horrible) right here in America. Having a loving family, either in
China or the United States, will go a long way toward preventing that type of outcome.
I cannot express how happy I am that Lydia has come into our lives, but in an ideal situation, she should have never been left in the first place. In addition to having to come to terms with her adoption (which is challenging for many adult adoptees), she is experiencing the the added challenge of being a member of a transracial family in a country that is less than 5% Asian. My husband and I also have the added challenge of having to keep our child in touch with her heritage and making her proud of who she is in an area of the country where almost everyone looks the same, and no one looks like her. I hope this is a challenge that we are equal to, and that we can continue to raise a happy, healthy child, but I will never assume that she would have been less happy in China.

[BlakeH]

I think there are a lot of people in denial about the impact that international adoptions play in child trafficking in China. Nobody is paying more for Chinese babies than Americans.

People say they know their adoption was legitimate, and they have the documents to prove it. However, with the large sums of cash being thrown around, forged documents are not a problem. People will also say that their baby arrived at the orphanage after being abandoned. That should raise a big red flag! Why would a poor person abandon a child if they could get an entire year's salary for it? The sad truth is, they usually wouldn't.

Here is an article by ABC News that talks a little bit about the role international adoptions play in kidnapping and child trafficking:

China's Lost Children
Of the Thousands of Children Kidnapped in China, Many Are Adopted by Foreigners