[Eve W]

Hi,

My husband read in today’s The Province newspaper (Vancouver, BC) an article on a Chinese woman that was forced to have a full term abortion, because she got pregnant 5 months before the wedding. After the abortion, she had to stay in hospital for several days and her husband has to pay the medication bills. Because of this abortion she is infertile now. The woman and her husband are suing. My husband will bring this paper home (he is out of town today) and I will try to post it if I can.

I personally think that if China wants to”look good” for the Olympics, it should stop murdering its own citizens instead of slowing down the adoptions.


Eve

[bajj]

Here's a link to the story.

China woman in legal first over abortion case - Telegraph

[Eve W]

Thank you Ani.

Eve

[KarenInCa]

China is still operating under governmental force. In some cases, there are positive aspects to this. While we were in Shanghai, a woman's purse got snatched. Within minutes, there was a crowd and local police in cars with sirens blasting. We saw it all from our upper story hotel room, and although we don't know if they caught the guy, we do know that he was probably going to prison if he was caught.
Compare that to any city or town in the US. It would be highly unusual for a crowd form if someone yelled out that her purse were stolen, and the police would not come to the scene. In fact, they probably would barely care to take a report if she showed up at the police station.
That's also the reason you probably don't hear of too much 'real' crime by the people of China....Because, most likely, the consequences are so severe that even those with the most hardened minds don't want to be subjected to them.
As for this case, I think the forced aborting because of the laws of pregnancy before marriage, and the following law suit that could occur, shows the strong pull between old world and new in China.
There are still those in the government that were there 20 yrs ago. And 20 yrs ago, a forced abortion for going against the law like this was probably more common than not, just not spoken about. They're the older generation that still exist.
But, to China's credit, there is actually a judge that is willing to hear this case. To me, that shows at least some people in power, are showing restraint. Ironically, it's because of China's absurd and inhumane laws (and their strict consequences) like getting pregnant out of wedlock, and their One Child Policy, that gives any of us the opportunity to be parents.

[amyfk]

I dont want to be a judge on China's system, but all I can say is "WOW" and I really feel for the poor family and for the child who will now never experience life.(sorry If I let my views out here I am pro lifer).
Amy K, NJ

[Kama]

Amy, I would hope that all of us here on the forum are pro-lifers (or anti-abortion). I am!

Originally Posted by amyfk

(sorry If I let my views out here I am pro lifer).
Amy K, NJ

[pgruodis]

Originally Posted by Kama

Amy, I would hope that all of us here on the forum are pro-lifers (or anti-abortion). I am!

There is a World of Difference between Choosing an Abortion & being Forced to have one.

[sparkybear]

Originally Posted by Kama

Amy, I would hope that all of us here on the forum are pro-lifers (or anti-abortion). I am!

I think we have a very diverse group who frequent this board. I would venture a guess that you are wrong in assuming everyone on this forum has the same views as you.

[ocracoke]

Originally Posted by amyfk

I dont want to be a judge on China's system, but all I can say is "WOW" and I really feel for the poor family and for the child who will now never experience life.(sorry If I let my views out here I am pro lifer).
Amy K, NJ

I am horrified by this sotry. That being said I am also pro choice and this woman was not given a choice.

Samantha

[twoinblue]

[quote=KarenInCa]China is still operating under governmental force. In some cases, there are positive aspects to this. While we were in Shanghai, a woman's purse got snatched. Within minutes, there was a crowd and local police in cars with sirens blasting. We saw it all from our upper story hotel room, and although we don't know if they caught the guy, we do know that he was probably going to prison if he was caught.
Compare that to any city or town in the US. It would be highly unusual for a crowd form if someone yelled out that her purse were stolen, and the police would not come to the scene. In fact, they probably would barely care to take a report if she showed up at the police station.
quote]

Did you really just say this system in which government police would forcibly kill a baby has its positive aspects because they care more about crimes like purse snatching?

In all the places I've worked I never would have seen an officer blow off a robbery in the way you described.

When we went to China, we brought patches from our departments to give to any officers we met (its a custom with police). In Beijing, Chongqing, and Guangzhou we came within speaking distance of officers but we never got the chance to talk to them because in all three cases our guides were terrified and begged us not to even look their way. I had wanted to get a picture with them but there was not a chance. This made us incredibly sad that good citizens would be so frightened of their law enforcement.

The US has its problems but the reason we have high crime is because our laws lean heavily in favor of civil rights. I would much rather see it the way it is than have to hear of horror stories like this one.

I had read about this when it happened but I didn't know she has since been diagnosed as infertile. This story is too horrible for words.

[KarenInCa]

Julie, let me clarify. My point was not to say that brutality or forcibly killing a full term child has positive aspects.
What I said was that the rules are to be followed in China. And because of that, there is less crime.
Having strict guidelines and laws has its advantages for the safety of the people.
That doesn't mean that I agree with some of the laws, but it DOES mean that most cities in China are probably safer places to visit than most major cities in the US.

Our experience was much different than yours in China (not sure why). We did take pictures of two police standing next to a statue of Chairman Mao. And they smiled for us. We didn't speak with them, but we didn't have anything to say either.
Also, as an example of crime here, my 24 yr old son lives in a nice town, with very little crime. His car was stolen, and his apartment was burglarized. Although the police came out to the scene, and my son had a suspect, no one was ever found. His car was left 3 weeks later. The suspect was someone that grew up close to where we lived, and had recently moved to Reno-and on probation from another theft. How easy would it have been to find this guy in the system? But, the police didn't look for him, and when they found his car, they did not fingerprint it. They could have easily found him if they would have. Instead they called my son and said that he could pick up his car in leu of having to pay towing and storage. WOW.
Our insurance, on the other hand, was fantastic.

[taramayrn]

I would say it is unfair to assume all of us here are pro-life. Also, pro-choice does not mean pro-abortion.

[Vogi2002]

Hmmm I don't think there is an upside to a government that not only does not protect it's smallest of citizens but brutally and forcibly murders them without a whim.

I'm sorry but I am not okay with the murder or genecide (which this IS), I don't care how "safe" you would call it.

[Katia555]

As a tourist, you see things though a key hole. You don't see the whole picture, and you certainly don't see what goes on behind closed doors of a government that is notorious for violating human rights. In fact, I doubt if the majority of Chinese citizens feel "safe." I think many of them are scared. I also wonder what happened to that purse snatcher mentioned in one of the posts. If he got caught and arrested, I wonder if he is still alive.

There is a very interesting article on this very subject here:

China's Efforts Against Crime Make No Dent - New York Times

Just a few quotes from the article: "To hold the line against crime, the government relies on draconian campaigns that periodically sweep up tens of thousands of suspects, rush them through abbreviated trials and send thousands of them to death -- regardless of the likelihood that some are innocent."

And: "But while tens of thousands of people have been executed since the country's first nationwide campaign in 1983, Chinese academics say government statistics show that the Strike Hard campaigns have no lasting impact on crime, belying the effectiveness of a policing strategy whose central feature is forced confessions and death. The anticrime drives invigorate and define the darkest corner of China's formidable system of social control, a corner, largely unseen by the broader population, where police brutality is tolerated, even encouraged. For the vast majority of Chinese, the campaigns are reassuring and right. But for others, they bring terror and despair."

China has been critized in the past for very serious issues such as arbitrary detention, torture of prisoners and its lack of judicial independence and due process. The case of a women whose unborn child was brutally killed shows to what extend the citizens of China are being suppressed and controlled. A murder was committed, by the very same authorities that claim to make China a "safe" place to live. Safe for tourists, perhaps. But we don't have to live with the daily fear of being arrested and convicted, and perhaps even killed, for a crime we did not commit.

[pgruodis]

Like saying at least Mussolini made the trains run on time.