[timandheike]

Hi Everyone, this is my first time posting here, though I've 'lurked' for a while. My wife and I are in the beginning stages of adopting from China. We've paid our application fee, and first program fee installment. Soon we'll begin the home studies. We advised our agency that we will consider a Special Needs child.

I've been reading here about the delays, and the irony of it, is that my wife and I have been progressing slowly through it, because we don't have tons of money sitting in a bank account to rush through it. So we are sort of our own impediment to getting the dossier together.

We've been trying to save up money and raise money as we go along, and praying that God will provide and enable us to gather the necessary funds. So we sent our application fee of $250 in October, and then another $2,000 just last week. Soon we'll be going through the home studies, another $1,500 . Then the 2nd installment, etc.

We actually have 3 biological children, ages 15, 9, and 5 (2 boys, 1 girl). Our decision and motivation to adopt is really about saving one of these young girls from the orphanage, and to love her completely - as if she were our own.

So anyways, I'm about 1/2 way through reading Karin Evans book, "The Lost Daughters of China", and I guess the situation is dramatically different today compared to when this book was written. As you read the book, you hear about baby girls abandoned everywhere, overflowing orphanages, and a great need for adoptive parents.

But when you read the threads in the forums here, it appears that:
1.) China is now permitting domestic adoptions.
2.) There is less abandonment, and therefore emptier orphanages.
3.) I've read a few mentions of China possibly bringing International adoptions to an eventual closure.
4.) A lesser stigma of having a daughter, compared to the rural patriarchal ideologies also contributing to lower abandonment.
5.)The tough restrictions of the one child policy have been lessened enough to lower orphan availability, and therefore the need for International intervention.

So in a bittersweet sort of way, this is great! If the orphanages are no longer overflowing with children in need. If the China government now has a manageable population of children that can be adopted from within, then you could almost consider it a blessing that China isn't in such a horrid situation that it was in the 80's and 90's.

I say bittersweet, because on an emotional level, those who are still waiting to receive a child from China, those who have their hearts set on adopting from China - this is not the best of news.

Perhaps I'm not seeing this situation properly? Perhaps the need is just as great as it was before? Perhaps the reality of the situation is being hidden from our view and that many babies and toddlers who should be made available, just aren't?

What do you think? Prior to my 'lurking' in the forums here, we really thought there was a great need in China, and we really had our heart set on adopting from there.

- Timothy

[overflowing]

Hello Timothy (great name btw...our oldest is Timothy),

The way I see it is if even one child is in need of a home then there is a need! As far as one country having a greater need over the other, well that's all in the eye of the beholder If you feel the Lord calling you to China, than there is a specific reason why. As far as China's orphan's overall 'need'...it does appear to not be as great as in previous years but I would have to say 'yes' there is still a great need...especially for the sn's babies.

This illustration came to mind when I read your email:

A rough storm came up one night and left a sandy beach strewn with starfish.

The next morning, a child walked along the shore stopping every few feet to pick up a starfish and fling it out into the sea.

An old man watched the child and finally shouted at him, why bother, son. "There's too many starfish to make a difference".

With that, the boy picked up another starfish and looked at it intently before heaving it out into the sea, then turning to the old man he said...

"It Makes A Difference To This One"...

Many blessings to you and your wife as you journey through the paperchase. One of the most awesome parts we experienced was watching God provide financially. Best wishes! ~stacy

[joyfulme3x]

You're seeing the situation exactly as I'm seeing it. I believe your list of points is right-on.
The situation just isn't the same now as it was a few years ago. While I'd guess that there may be more non-special-needs babies/toddlers in orphanages than China says there are, I seriously doubt that there are as many as adoption agencies would lead us to think there are. I believe the orphanages are filled with children but no longer non-special-needs baby girls.

Even if there are many thousands of young healthy baby girls in orphanages in China, by most accounts there are 35,000 foreign families currently "in line" to adopt them. In my opinion there is not a need for more families to apply to adopt non-special-needs children at this time.

On the other hand, there is DEFINITELY a great need for families for children with special needs, and the need is even greater now that singles (who used to adopt a large percentage of kids with SN) and many other families are ineligible due to the new rules. The need is especially great for families for boys of any age with any type of need, no matter how minor, and of course for children who are older and/or have more significant special needs. If your desire to adopt includes the desire to go where the need is greatest, you could consider adopting one of these children, who often wait for a very long time while young girls with minor needs have families lining up and competing for them.

JMHO--best wishes for a wonderful journey to your child

[KarenInCa]

It's still unknown as to the difference between less adoptable, paper ready children vs LESS children. There are many, many orphanages that do not do IA in China. And of the ones that do, all of the sudden there are less paper ready children. The concept of less children could not have happened over night. But in 'over night' mode, there suddenly became less children.
I believe there are other compelling reasons that adoptions have slowed down. But I also believe that if someone is willing to wait, they will have a child.
It's interesting that you mention the money factor. The plus for us waiting is that we can plan our spending far better with this wait, than if it were still a 6-9 month wait. There's always a plus side to every negative.

[PiperH]

Good discussion. If the need is no longer as great in China, then we think that is great.
However, there always will be a need for parents to adopt children in every country.
We are not 100 percent sold on China having less babies available for international adoption, though the country has taken huge strides in development in less than a decade, so it is possible that there were great achievements in this area, as well.
The IA program was going great guns in 2005, and suddenly the brakes were put on and referrals began dwindling month by month.
What caused that sudden reversal?
Maybe the domestic program shot up, but I think we would have heard about it then. Maybe the Olympics interfered with things? Maybe it was scandals? Maybe it was Hague? Maybe it was a perfect storm of so many things.
There are many people speculating on so many reasons why the referrals have slowed. We may never know.
We think the program has changed, and it probably never will be the way it was, no matter what stimulated the change. We just hope for the sake of the children that the change is for the best.

[timandheike]

Thanks for all the quick responses, and your shared views of the situation in China. I don't want to be speculative of the situation, but I did want to be realistic concerning the timelines and availability.

And I agree, there will always be children all over the world who will be in need of parents to adopt them.

I have my biological Dad, but my adoptive Mom is from South Korea. My wife is from Bremen, Germany. I have a sister-in-law from Costa Rica, a sister-in-law from Mexico, and 3 siblings who are 1/2 Korean. So we feel that our future daughter, Maria, will fit right in with a culturally diverse family. :-)

- Timothy
Maria's Journey

[twoinblue]

After the influx of applications sent for Chinese orphans, the slow-down occurred not because there aren't enough orphans in China needing homes but because there aren't enough children in orphanages who have their paperwork completed.

The orphanages have to complete packets on the children to include medical exams. Some of the orphanages are just unable to afford the medical exams or they are intimidated by the paperwork.

There are organizations in China right now (Can I post the link?) who are working with the orphanages trying to get them to submit more paperwork. There are children languishing in orphanages. Some US organizations are sending medical teams to complete examinations free of charge so that the orphanages can get the paperwork completed. It's amazing some of the roadblocks that they have encountered because a lot of people think no one will want this baby because of a special need or because she is so dark etc.

Many of the orphanages are quicker to get the paperwork for a special needs child completed since (a) they often can't afford the on-going medical treatment (b) they know that the child's only chance of getting their need fixed is to be adopted (c) a child growing up with a special need in China is stigmatized and often not allowed to go to school. So, the good news is that these children are becoming adoptable but it DOES look like there are only SN children being placed for adoption.

Every month that they post the orphanages are full of new babies. Even if there has been a slow-down in the babies being abandoned (hurray!) there are still many, many more who are there.

I hope that answers your question.

[mdaisyq]

Just to add some info from my personal experience. Last year we adopted a 34 month old SN boy (repaired CL/CP/hernia). He was from an orphanage that had never done an international adoption before. When I visited the orphanage, I found out that all of the healthy children that had been brought to the orphanage were adopted by local families - a family had also expressed interest in adopting our sonwhen he was 18 months or so, but the orphanage director told the family they couldn't adopt him because his paperwork had already gone to the CCAA for international adoption - the director did not know she couldhave pulled his paperwork and placed him domestically

There were 5 other children living at his orphanage -one was dying of leukemia and the other 4 were boys ages 4-8 (?) who the director described as being brain damaged(this translation may also have covered CP) and the director said they would not be preparing the paperwork for international adoption for these children.

The orphanage is in a poor area (mostly rice farming with water buffalo.)

[NaturalizedCT]

Originally Posted by timandheike

Perhaps I'm not seeing this situation properly? Perhaps the need is just as great as it was before? Perhaps the reality of the situation is being hidden from our view and that many babies and toddlers who should be made available, just aren't?

I don't think there is a 'need' for more people to adopt NSN children from China. The people getting their referrals now started the process about 2 1/2 years ago. It seems likely that the process will extend to 4+ years. That would not suggest a need for more people to 'step up to the plate'.

[ttcasey]

When my husband and I first talked about adoption it was to expand our family. We looked into domestic adoption and it was determined to be too hard, too many risks and the potential that the birth parents could come back and take the child. We then looked into Russia, Guatamala and then China. China appeared to be more organized so that is the way we went. Yes, the abandonment, the children left in orphanages, the special needs children not wanted played a huge role in our decision. We decided to adopt a special needs child, and then when we got home and had all of her tests completed, it has been determined that she is not special needs. Go with your heart, but make sure that your reasons for adopting are for your family. The cost is significant and the emotions and travel are tough. We returned thanksgiving and I am just sleeping through the night again and putting on the weight that I lost when I was there.

[NewWorld1]

My husband and I are jus begin to seriously explore adoption. It is something I have wanted for a long time and we are beginning to research options. Knowing that this is something I want to do, I would like to pick a location that may be in need. If China is improving and some people's experiences seem to indicate that domestic adoptions are becoming increasingly popular, what locations are not experiencing this trend? What areas desparately need adoptive families?

[pgruodis]

Sadly "Need" does not equal "Available"...
Many countries, including China, have orphans that need parents. Unfortunately the children are not available for international adoption. That being said, you may want to look into Ethiopia. Good Luck!

[hoping44]

Timothy,

There is most certainly still a need for families. I do think, as others have mentioned, that the need lies in the SN program. We are in the process of our second SN adoption and we wouldn't have it any other way. It's true that there is a lot of "competition" for very young girls with minor needs, but there is a very large group of children that do not fall into that "as young as possible, with minor needs" category. The children in that large group are very much in need of families. I hope things go well for you.