[sc0628]

Is there any of you out there that are able to have children, but feel a calling to adopt Internationally? I have always wanted to adopt from China since I was young girl. I just have this longing in my heart that God has placed here. We would like to adopt twice. I have a fourteen year old and my husband and I are planning on having one more together, We would like to adopt twice in fact. The second I am thinking I might want to adopt older. Has anyone out there done this? Have you been ridiculed for doing this? Is the adoption process as long for an older girl?
thanks
sc

[hml1976]

Well we're fertile too as far as we know and we've adopted twice from Kazakhstan. I read recently that
its estimated that up to 40% of international adoptions are to people with no known fertility problems, so you wouldn't be alone by any stretch. Yes, people will say things to you but who cares, its your family I find answers like "well, we knew our child was in China so we didn't really have a choice, we had to go get her/him" generally shut people up.

My advice is that if you plan to adopt an older child or sibling set that you do your research, don't adopt out of birth order (ie. don't have a three year and adopt a six year old), and I personally don't believe in virtual twinning (having a two year old and adopting a two year old). Read Read Read. Not to scare you but adopting an older child is a wonderful calling that you want to be totally prepared for. Good luck!

[KariKae]

I have two biological children ages 5.5 and 1. We have problems getting pregnant and staying pregnant. But we are blessed with two little girls so it's not impossible.

I have always felt the "tug" to adopt a child. I would like to adopt a toddler or pre-schooler. I love that age. Plus, I've gotten to the "newborn thing" twice. I think little babies should go to families who have not gotten that experience yet.

I might be wrong, but children over a certain age are considered "special needs" and the process moves quicker. Is this correct?

[sak9645]

Congratulations on considering international adoption. Many people who have bio children and/or no known fertility problems adopt. There are enough children in need of parents, around the world, that you would not be "depriving" a childless person of the ability to know the joys of parenthood.

Do remember, of course, that China does not allow a child to be adopted once he/she reaches age 14. There is a perception in China that a teenager will not do well with the transition to a new home, especially in a foreign country. As a result, any child you adopt from China will be younger than your current child, so birth order will not be a factor there.

Also remember that some American adoption agencies do not allow adoption out of birth order, believing that it is not good for a child to go from being, say, the oldest in a family to having a sibling older than himself/herself. So it might be best to adopt BEFORE you have another bio child, if you want maximum choice of agencies. However, some agencies WILL accept families considering an out-of-birth order adoption, so even if you do conceive first, you should be able to adopt.

While you could go through the regular adoption process, where you submit a dossier to China and wait (possibly well over two years) for the China Center for Adoption Affairs to assign you a child, you may find it preferable to go through the Waiting Child program, which tends to have a much shorter time frame.

With the Waiting Child program, the CCAA gives participating adoption agencies lists of children who are deemed "hard to place". Each agency gets a different group of children, and is given about three months to find a suitable family for each.

The children either have special needs or are older. In the past, it might have been possible to adopt a child under age three with a very minor special need, such as a big birthmark, or a completely healthy 3-4 year old, it appears that China is beginning to emphasize using the list for children who are of school age or who have more significant special needs.

In general, China's greatest challenge is finding families for school aged boys, especially boys ten and over, with or without special needs. However, you are likely to find school aged girls on the list as well. If you are open to special needs like cleft palate, Hep. B carrier status, correctable heart problems, missing or malformed limbs, etc., you may find considerably younger children of both genders.

If you are interested in adopting a child from a Waiting Child list, do not apply to a particular agency first. Get a list of agencies that work with China's Waiting Child program, and call or email each to get a copy of their most recent list of children. If you happen to have an approved homestudy already, as well as USCIS clearance, you will be more attractive to agencies, since they will know that you are serious about adoption and will not be turned down by your state or the USCIS.

After looking at the lists, if you should happen to identify a child you think you can parent, do a bit of research to make sure that the agency is one with which you would feel comfortable working. Then call the agency and talk to one of the staff about the child. The staff may give you additional information about him/her, which can either solidify your desire to adopt him/her or help you decide that you cannot meet his/her needs.

If you are still interested in the child, the agency will advise you about how to accept an application to adopt him/her. Be aware that some agencies allow multiple families to submit a request for a child, and then choose the most suitable family from among them. The youngest children, and children with the most minor special needs, tend to get a lot more people requesting them. As a result, you may not get approved for the first child you request. If not, keep looking. Your child will be out there somewhere.

If an agency accepts you for a child, it will guide you through the steps to adopt him/her. First, of course, you will need to send a formal request for preapproval to China, via your agency. China does not want you to go through the whole dossier process if you do not meet its qualifications to adopt that child. Basically, you will need to meet all the usual qualifications that China has for adoptive parents, with regard to age, marital status, health status, criminal background, etc. And China will need to feel confident that your family is a good match for the child's needs.

If China issues preapproval, your agency will then guide you through the process of preparing a formal dossier. This dossier is exactly the same as the one required for a regular adoption from China, with lots of documents that need to go through notarization, certification, and authentication. When it is completed, your agency will send it to China.

China will then review the dossier, to make sure that there is nothing in it which contradicts the information in your preliminary application. While there will still be a wait for approval, the time frame is likely to be measured in several months, not years as with the regular adoption program. If China approves you, it will officially "refer" the child to you.

Once you formally accept the referral, you will wait for a notice of authorization to travel, just as with the regular adoption program. The wait is probably going to be a month or two. Once you get travel authorization, your agency will help you make travel arrangements, and you can go to adopt your child.

You probably will not travel with a group, unless there happens to be one from your agency going to your child's province. Otherwise, however, the adoption process will be the same as in the regular program. You will go to your child's province and meet your child. You will take custody of him/her, and then finalize your adoption, which usually occurs on the same day. You will wait a week or so in the province for your child's paperwork to be prepared. Once you have the child's birth certificate, adoption decree, abandonment certificate, and Chinese passport, you will travel to Guangzhou and obtain a visa for him/her at the U.S. Consulate there. Then you can bring your child home.

I hope this helps.


Sharon

[sakelley]

My husband and I always knew that when we decided to have children, we would adopt. We felt why bring a child into this world when there was so many that needed a home. In fact, he had a vasectomy at the age of 28 to ensure we would never get pregnant. We came home with our daughter from China 15 months ago. She was 34 months old at adoption. I could never imagine loving another child the way I do her.

[MissyAmomChina]

Hi,

From my experience, you'll find diveristy in the Chinese adoption community. We have a very large chapter of Families with Children from China (FCC). At any event you'll see an equal representation of families:

where a single parent adopted
parents who have both biological and adopted children
parents with 1 or more children from china

We all may have gone our individual journies to adoption---but we all share the wonderful bond of forming/adding to their family via adoption.

[sc0628]

I like the idea of virtual twining. Can I ask why you don't agree with it? Also, I have a 14 year old daughter. If I get pregnant while the adoption process is going through how does this effect the adoption? I just don't quite understand the adoption out of birth order issue. Please help me undestand.
thanks
sc

[stephdpenn]

I am fertile, have 2 bio sons to prove it (ages 14 and 9). We have always wanted to adopt but it took years before we were in the financial condition to do so.
We brought our beautiful daughter home from China Sept. 06.
When we decided to be parents again we knew without a doubt that we wanted to adopt. After much soul searching we realized China was right for us.
We will never have another bio child (dh just had surgery to ensure that). I am sure we are done with adding to our family but if we ever changed our minds then we knew adoption would be our choice again.

[stephdpenn]

Originally Posted by sc0628

I like the idea of virtual twining. Can I ask why you don't agree with it? Also, I have a 14 year old daughter. If I get pregnant while the adoption process is going through how does this effect the adoption? I just don't quite understand the adoption out of birth order issue. Please help me undestand.
thanks
sc

I don't agree with virtual twining either. I do know of one family that is doing this sucessfully though.
An adopted child will need time, maybe LOTS of time to bond to you. It is hard enough with one child but could be near impossible to do with 2 unrelated children. We are one of the lucky ones meaning that our daughter's 'problems' have been few but there still have been issues. Over a year later and there are still attachment issues. I can't imagine doing this with 2 adopted children at the same time.

As for adopting out of birth order I don't think it is a good idea either. I know it can be done and done well but it takes a huge commitment from everyone envolved. To me it disrupts the natural balance of things. Children have their place in the family meaning oldest, middle, youngest, etc. When you disrupt that it creates confusion and makes for extra adjustment.

I recommend doing a lot of reasearch on both topics. Read the good and the bad stories (pros and cons).

[sc0628]

I guess I was misunderstood. I wasn't thinking of virtual twining by adopting two different children, but by having a biological child while in the process of adopting. I figure they will be around the same age by the time the adoption is finalized. Is this also considered virtual twining?
thanks,
sc

[SAVeronika]

I gave birth to my third child just two weeks ago. She was supposed to be our first adopted baby, but things worked out differently. We still plan on adopting when she's a bit older. We would like a big family and I'm certainly not planning on giving birth to that many children, LOL. I've felt the pull to adopt from China since I was very young as well and never thought I'd have biological children.

As for virtual twining with a bio baby and adopted baby, I believe that the CCAA requires any in process adoptions to be placed on hold if you become pg while in the process, plus they require the adopted child to be the youngest in the home by at least 12 months. I've read on waiting children's lists that it's a CCAA requirement, but I'm actually not sure if it's an agency requirement. Anyone know for sure?

[mom3boys]

I would really recommend reading up before giving virtual twinning or adopting out of birth order. It definitely can be done, but it can also be very difficult. These situations have led to disruptions, so think carefully about your decisions.
As far as fertile people adopting, many people adopting from China have biological children. I have three bio boys. After my third I had a tubal ligation so I can't have any more bio kids. At this point I wouldn't want to get pregnant again. Our daughter is waiting for us in China.

[sak9645]

Virtual twinning, whether with two adopted children or with a bio child and an adopted child, is a concern to social workers for several reasons. Here are just three.

1. As many people said, it is difficult to care for two or more children of the same age, both financially and in terms of day to day responsibilities. No one is going to split up biological twins/triplets/multiples, so people who bear or adopt them simply have to cope with the difficulties. However, the situation is not optimal, and many agencies believe that no one should "create" an opportunity to parent two children of the same age who are NOT actually bio siblings.

2. Agencies also have trouble with virtual twinning, because the children in such a situation are almost always very different in their abilities and needs, and people will inevitably make unfavorable comparisons. As an example, suppose you have a bio child who is in the 95th percentile for height and weight and who has no major issues. Then you adopt a child who is in the 5th percentile for height and weight, because he/she is Asian and was premature, and who has delays in speech and some sensory issues. The adopted child is always going to be compared with the bio child. And what happens when the bio kid is academically and emotionally ready for kindergarten, but the same age adopted child needs to stay in preschool? Do you keep the kids together so that they are truly raised as twins? Do you make the adopted child feel bad by not sending him/her to kindergarten, while his sibling of the same age goes there?

3. Some children adopted at older ages come to their new families with a great deal of emotional baggage, including a history of physical or sexual abuse. If they are older than the youngest children in the home, there is a possibility that they will abuse the younger children, who may be unable to protect themselves or explain what has been happening.

Yes, there are people who do virtual twinning very successfully. But it is not necessarily the ideal way to structure a family. Personally, I think that it is best to structure a family so that it is most like what would happen if the family had all of its children by birth.

In my opinion, there should be at least a year between kids, and usually more, unless there happens to be a multiple birth. And any child added to the family should be younger than all of the other children.

Sharon

[twoinblue]

Hi! I'm so happy you are researching and asking questions.

When I first started out I wanted so badly to virtual twin and I'm fortunate to have an agency that flat out said, "no" to me. I still like the idea and I know two families who have successfully done so BUT the twinning is extremely hard on both children. If you adopted two children the same age at the same time, it might be easier but bringing a child who is the same age as the bio child you have at home is SO HARD. It just seems so unfair to both the kiddos so I hope you will read carefully before you proceed.

Likewise with the out of birth order adoptions. They can be extremely hard on the children. It sounds cool to be able to plug a child into a gap so that everyone has someone to play with but...these children are square pegs to the proverbial round hole.

Honestly, I ask you to think about the idea of how a child should "fit into the family". Older children especially have a hard time with this expectation. If you can't devote a LOT of special time to the child you are adopting please take your time until you are able to do so. It's not about having your family done by the time you are 35 or having all of your children two years apart, etc. It has to be about the children's needs and your adopted child will have special needs.

Getting off of my soapbox. I encourage you to keep asking questions and to keep reading.