[prechrswife]

Sorry for the multiple posts. I'm just adding things as they come to mind.

Take the Beijing tour (or Hong Kong, whatever your agency offers). It really helps you to get acclimated to the time difference, plus the sightseeing is pretty incredible.

Also, if you are in contact with someone from your travel group, consider dividing your packing list. Items like OTC medications, snacks, etc. can be divided between you and shared. It saves cost and space in your luggage. We did this, and it worked well for us.

[ttcasey]

Keep the ideas coming,...leaving in three weeks I need all the help I can get!

[richard p.]

We made two trips, the first in 98 and the second in 07. We brought our first daughter with us for the second trip. Daughter #1 was 13 mo and #2 was 36 months.
There are countless lists on what to bring and what to do - I'd like to share what worked for us.
* Luggage - we packed light. One 19" wheeled suit case per person and 1 carry on per person. You can fit alot as long as you keep toys, food, diapers and shoes to a minimum. A few picture books, and blocks/cubes are all we brought. Plastic cups and spoons make great toys, even in the tub.
Diapers are everywhere - just bring a few for the first day. We brought one pair of comfortable shoes (leather clogs) and slippers. Sneakers are cold if you are in the north during winter. Slippers are great for the long plane rides and the room (the rugs all felt dirty). When you bring alot of luggage and large pieces everything goes slower once in country (especially if you travel in a large group). Luggage needs to be loaded on buses, inspected and checked at airports and delivered to rooms. The more there is the longer it takes. As a former hotel bellman/doorman I can tell you that duffel's, soft luggage and large pieces are a pain to handle. On our first trip we almost missed an in country flight because our guide had to waste time arguing with the airline due to the excessive amount of luggage in our group. In addition, there is not much storage or closet space in the hotel rooms to hide the luggage, so the wheeled cases stack nicely.Bring an empty duffel/soft piece for the trip home. Move cloths into it and place shopping goodies in the protected wheeled suit case.
*Meds - We did not bring any "serious" medicine. Doctors were available on both trips for those that took ill (even adults). Those that used them found the Chinese meds and doctors very effective and cheap (a hospital visit and meds cost about 150 yuan or about $19.00). We brought cold, stomach, and headache medicine in tablet form and Visine. In addition we brought diaper rash cream and Aveno lotion. We also brought a bar of Neutrogena soap (the toddler did not like bubble bath) and saline nasal spray (adult and child). The spray is a must for the long flights and warm dry hotel rooms. Also, bring a small first aid kit with extra band aids to take care of minor cuts and blisters.
* Toiletries - there was shampoo, conditioner, lotion, razors, shaving cream and hair dryers in the rooms. There are more important things to worry about than your favorite shampoo. Bring deodorant.
* Food/snacks - we only brought Cheerios and Gold Fish (you can get Cheerios in China or take them from the breakfast buffet. Chinese food stores have all kinds of snacks, soda, juice wine and beer. We could not find goldfish however (the toddler loved them - get low the salt variety).
Diapers/wipes - very common item, so no need to bring. However we did not see unscented hypo-allergenic wipes with aloe.
Cloths for child - bring 4 days worth (get advise from a parent on quantities). Size by weight not age. Our 1st was smaller than average and our second was larger. Wash them first in unscented detergent. Cloths are cheap, buy there.Much of the cloths have Disney and other "stuff" on them. We brought good fleece for the cold weather as it is light and packs well.
Cloths for parents - 4 or 5 days as well. Laundry is cheap in the provinces. At the white swan, take to any of the stores.
Stroller - we used a snugly for the infant. The province hotel provided us with one and we then bought a cheap one (about $16) outside the white swan for the 3 year old.
General - get out of the room and get fresh air as often as possible. You and the child will need it. Take a few minutes in the morning before the child wakes up to have a cup of coffee or tea with your significant other in the room's sitting area. Reflect on the events of the previous day. At night we would have a glass of wine together. We found this to be crucial - no matter how tired we were. Take a nap when possible This may sound silly, but I kept the room as neat as possible. The neat room seemed to lessen the chaos of the day.
Sleeping arrangements - my wife and I alternated sleeping with the children. We were informed that #2 had a crib mate and so had never slept alone so we felt co-sleeping was key. The beds are small for two adults and a cot/crib takes up too much space in a small room. If you have more than two adults and two children a second room is key.
Shopping - good pearls and good jade are at least 50% less than in the states. If you can afford them, they make great gifts for yourself or your daughter when she is older. We bought some very nice pottery as well. There is also plenty of inexpensive/nice items to purchase. Next time (I can't believe i said that) we will look for a nice rug and silk embroidery.
Eating out - the food is very different (compared to Americanized Chinese food). The 4 star hotels had alot of western style food - even in the provinces. If you are not used to different foods, stick with the noodle soups and fried rice if you go to a local place and there is no "American" food. We had a great time experimenting and savoring the local cuisine.
Overall - China is a wonderful country with an incredible cultural heritage and history. It is not a backward third world country. People baulk at the "squat potties" in some locations but I think they are better than sitting on a dirty toilet.The people are friendly and helpful. Many more spoke English this time. We did not get as many stares this time around (the exception would be Caucasian children - they got plenty). There is much more English language TV (even movie channels). You will see many many more adopted boys, special needs, older children, second timers (we met a woman who was there for #4!), grand parents and bio children. If you go to Beijing see as much as you can, get there a day early if possible.
Taking children - it is not a vacation, especially if it is your first time. The trip is hard emotionally and physically. You need to concentrate on the new child so make sure the sibling has something to do and keep occupied. Our #1 was lucky to make friends with other kids her age. A game boy (don't forget the charger!)and a long book were key (i am not a big proponent of video games, but it did help. I did not let the thing go on any sightseeing trips). Insist that they keep a journal as you may not be able to do so.If your child/children travel well it can be a wonderful trip.
Trip to the orphanage - we choose not to even try. People that did go said that it was very very hard on the child. We want to return and do it at a much later date.
What we overlooked - 1) Herb tea, none to be found. 2) More instant coffee for the room. My only critique of China is that the coffee is really bad and not not - except in a coffee house. The instant in the rooms (Nestles I think) was not bad.
Our guides for both trips (two differnet agencies) were wonderful and will do anything to make the trip as comfortable and enjoyable as possibe - you will not be alone. You will also have built in support from the other menbers of your group. It is truly a wonderful experience so enjoy!

[KarenInCa]

The orphanage visit is definitely a personal choice. But if it is offered, I would not turn it down. It could be the only real link you have for your child's past. For us, the orphanage visit was a MUST. It was extremely important for us to visit, so that we could thank the nannies. At the same time as it gave her main nanny closure, it also gave me a feeling of a new beginning. It felt as if we were giving each other permission to love this child, and we were able to video tape her with her main nanny holding her. It was important for us that we do that for our daughter's future.
If you go to the orphange, Richard is correct. It was an emotional drain for all of us. Our daughter had a melt down that night. But to be able to personally thank her nanny, and to allow her to see our daughter one last time for closure, and to be able to video tape that personal connection was worth gold. We were able to video tape the love she had for our daughter. The long-term benefits outweighed the short-term difficulty by a long shot. And we will do it again with our second daughter (if allowed).
Regardless, you can ask the director for your daughter's finding ad. Our guide gave us hers, offered by the director. Many of the orphanages have records of the finding ads, and it doesn't hurt to ask.
Also, make a list of questions for the orphanage nannies. Even if you do not go to the orphanage, whoever delivers the child will know your child.
Some questions to ask are:
What is her favorite food?
What makes her laugh?
What does she like to do?
What is the name of her favorite nanny?
These small questions might help your daughter feel connected to her past, later in her life.

DO NOT DRINK THE WATER.
DO NOT HAVE ICE IN YOUR DRINKS.
If you drink liquid from a glass, make sure it was not mixed with water or from concentrate. Apple juice is probably the best.
Hot drinks (such as hot tea) are fine, because the water has been boiled.

Shampoo is in most hotels, but conditioner is not.

Bring more than one toothbrush. Rinse your toothbrush and mouth with a glass of bottled water, not with running tap water.
The hotel rooms will give you bottles of individual water, you can ask for more at no charge. If you go to the store, get a couple gallons of bottled water to keep in the hotel room.

Keep the info coming...I know there's more out there. I'll post more later as others remind me of things.
Who's next?

[prechrswife]

Hand sanitizer...lots of hand sanitizer. We would wash our hands and then use the sanitizer afterwards.

[KarenInCa]

Oh, hand sanitizer is a good idea! We didn't think of bringing that the first time....brought antibacterial wipes but they irritated her skin, so we didn't use them too often.
I also like the idea of splitting the meds with another family to save space and costs.

Here is a list of meds and extras that we brought:
Ambien (prscription-for the long plane trip to China)
immodium
tums
AirBorne (used it 3 X's a day)
midol
water pills (prescription)
children's benedryl -not advocating, but we used it
athletes foot cream (just in case)
jock itch cream (just in case)
talcum powder
cortizone cream (for baby's skin)
baby hair brush
zinc oxide
couple packets of honey
liquid cough medicine (children's and adult)
pedialyte powder (found it at Walgreens.com)
children's tylenol
asprin
feminine napkins
sudafed
migraine meds (prescription)
bandaids

2 pair of glasses if you use glasses
sunglasses

[KarenInCa]

Someone had mentioned earlier about money, and this reminded me of some cultural differences to consider while in China.

- When paying for something, even in a supermarket, offer your money with both hands. It's considered the polite thing to do.

-If you bring items for the nannies, know that they will not open the presents in front of you. opening presents is a personal thing in China. It allows the recipient to feel emotional about it in private, as well allows them to not like it without offending the gift giver.

-Elevators become squishy. People pack in to elevators as much as possible. Do not be alarmed if you're standing in the front, and someone walks in toward you, and does not turn around to face the elevator door. It feels strange but it happens. Ride it out. :-)

-While in your child's province, walk out a bit to see the town your child is from. This might feel odd to you and to the people. Our daughter's town had NO white people that visted regularly. This might make you feel a bit uncomfortable at first, but it felt extremely safe. Let them stare at you. This may be the only chance you have to remember your daughter's birthplace for her. And take lots of pictures of the 'everyday' things happening, not just the overpowering GreatWall and exhibits in other places.

-Take a hotel business card with you when you leave the hotel, just in case you wander too far out and need to hail a taxi. You can show the driver the card and not have to worry that he knows where to take you.

-The night before you plan to go somewhere, exchange American Express CC's for Yuen at the front desk of your hotel. They won't exchange money for you while the banks are open (before 5pm), and the banks have long lines. Only take as much money with you on daily outings that you think you will need, and bring your credit card too. Keep them in your fanny pack. Keep the rest of your important items in the locked safe in your hotel room.

-There really ARE clothing police. These are not real police, but usually elderly people that hang out in parks or restaurants. When they see your child they will look her over. They are interested in knowing that you've dressed your child in 3 layers. Even though it might seem odd or too humid, do it for your childs sake and for respect for the people she will be leaving. We were told by some very good friends who lived in China, that the Chinese government controls the heat. Because the heat is government run, it costs nothing to the people, but it's also turned completely OFF in the southern provinces on March 15, and then turned completely off in the northern provinces on April 15. These are set dates, regardless of the weather conditions, so every year, the people in China have to consider keeping their young children warm by other means.
So, even though these clothing police seem more like gnats around fruit, they believe they are trying to help keep your child healthy. And perhaps they are. Your child will be used to being dressed in 3 or more layers in the orphanage. While in China, why not keep your child feeling comfortable, and familiar? And at the same time, you will get smiles from the clothing police as they do a quick eye exam over your child, and smile and nod as they walk by.
It doesn't have to be heavy layers either. t-shirt, regular shirt, thin jacket, pants, socks....this should do the trick for the warmer humid months. If you plan to visit the orphanage, do that plus tights under the pants, so that when the pants are pulled up slightly from the child sitting, the leg is not exposed from the sock to the pants. You will get a lot of approval for being a good parent. Play the game, and realize that they are culturally in a different mind set than you are, and although it might feel intrusive, they really do want to think your child is/will be healthy in your care.

[kff]

I'm carefully reading the great advice from everyone, keep it coming. I fly out Nov. 1st.

Could somebody list the Chinese denomination of money from smallest to highest.

Also, did most of you carry all the cash (including the 3k donation +)in money belts or used the hotel safe. If you used the safe did you use the one at the front desk?

Richard P., I believe You traveled by yourself to pick up your 2nd child? If so, I'll be doing the same and my daughter is almost 3.5 years old. Any specific advice about this age would be appreciated from you or anybody. Thanks

[sakelley]

Originally Posted by kff

Also, did most of you carry all the cash (including the 3k donation +)in money belts or used the hotel safe. If you used the safe did you use the one at the front desk?

We had our money and passports in money belts but never actually wore them. While traveling, we put them in our backpacks. Once we got to the hotel, we put them in the safe in our room. We took out enough money for the day each morning and exchanged it at the hotel. We just carried that money around in our pockets - my husband wore cargo pants or shorts and my shorts had pockets that had button closures to safeguard against pickpocketing.

[KarenInCa]

We carried our fanny packs on our bodies during the flights, with everything inside. Then carried one of them with chinese money in it while walking around in China, while the other was in the safe in the hotel room.

We also each had a pocket calculator, and taped this exchange page to the backs of each of them, to familiarize ourselves with the exchang rates. This page changes daily, but we copied it a week before we left and taped it onto the calculators.

FXCheatSheet - Currency Converter for Travelers

[prechrswife]

We mostly used our money belts, and we did use the safes in the hotel rooms some. One thing--you get rid of a big chunk of money very early in your trip. All of the orphanage fees, notary fees, etc., come out pretty early, so you are not carrying around quite as much money after that.

[richard p.]

We came home in January with a 3 year old. She is our second and our first was 13 months when we got her. These are simply my observations and experiences and I want to stress that all children are different, as are all parents and situations (one family in our group adopted a 3 year old SN boy - their issues were very different). Our daughter was found at a few days old and had always lived in an orphanage.
* Adopting a 13 month old did NOT prepare us for a 3 year old, everything was sooo different.
* At three she was potty trained, however she only knew how to squat. It took a few days to get used to sitting on a toilet.
* She cried A LOT. She cried during the day and would wake up at night. Experts say this is good because she is missing someone and so has been able to bond. I will say that we felt helpless and became emotionally drained.
* She was not crazy about being held or with physical affection. Our guide told us that kissing and cuddling was not something most children experienced. This fact made consoling her very difficult.
* She wined A LOT. We figured that she knew what she wanted, but because of the language she was even more frustrated with our not understanding. I also assume it was a way get get what she wanted (but then again, I see many kids do the same).
* She was absolutely petrified of our child friendly totally non threatening 40 lb little Corgi.
* It took her much longer top adapt to U.S. time.
* She was into everything and did not like the word no(again, this could be a typical 3 year thing).
Now the good:
* Things improved 101% every day.
* The flight home and the car seat were not problems.
* She had no interest in TV or any videos. She does love music.
* Watching her take in all the new things around her was incredible. You could almost see her little brain fire away all day long.
* The transition to daycare was not difficult (we were home for only 3 weeks before she started full time daycare).
* She bonded to all of us. After week two my wife had to go on a business trip for a week and our daughter was fine.
* Today she is a bright little girl, very curious and so smart it is rather scary. They call her "little sunshine" at daycare and she needs to meet and pet every dog she sees.

Read all you can, get as much information from other parents as possibble and be very very very patient.

By the way I did go with my wife. If this is your first adoption I would think that it would be very difficult to undertake the trip by yourself.
Best of luck to you.

[sakelley]

Richard P gave his story of adopting a 3 year old - now I will give mine which in ways parallels his, but other ways is completely different.

Our daughter was also a few days old and was at the orphanage for most of the time. She went into foster care about 8 months before we got her. Her orphanages ideal of foster care is different than most. She went home with a caretaker at night and was at the orphanage during the day. This made for an easy transition to daycare. - which she started 6 weeks after coming home.

* She refused to come to us at first until the nanny pulled out the photo album we sent and showed her that we were the "Mama & Baba" in the picture.
* She did not cry until the nanny left the room and it took at least 20 minutes to calm her. Then she was fine.
* She did not talk to us for 3 days, but was smiling and laughing. Once she started talking, she hasn't stopped. This comes from her being extremely shy and will not talk to strangers. A year later, she will only talk to a few select people that she knows very well.
* Our daughter was potty-trained but regressed. It took 8 months after coming home before she was completely potty-trained again.
* Ashlei only cried when we were stuck in the hotel room. She loved being out and about.
* She slept through the night from the first night with her. But she will not take naps.
* Ashlei constantly wanted to be carried and only by me. She refused daddy - but would play with him. She was very affectionate from the start. She was easily consoled.
* Language barrier was hard for all of us. She picked up on understanding English by the time we left China. But it took a few weeks before she could express herself to us in English.
* She was afraid of our 3 - 100lb German Shepherds for about 2 minutes. It took her 2 days to stop being afraid of the 10 lb cat.
* She adapted to US time within 3 days
* She also does not like the word "no" and still will cry if you tell her no.
* She refused to be seatbelted on the plane. She through a major fit when the flight attendant made me wake her up to put the seatbelt on her (In-China flight). On the flight home, she slept for 9 of the 13 hrs.
* She loves TV and videos. It said in her paperwork that she loved to watch TV.
* It took her a while to bond to daddy. We had to force them to spend at least an hour alone together every night so that she would bond with him also. She bonded to me very quickly.
* We took her to the doctor a week after coming home. She did perfectly fine there. She actually smiled and laughed while they took 6 vials of blood (and mommy almost passed out watching).
* The only developmental delays she had was in language but only because she was learning a new one. She caught up with that very quickly.

We have now have had Ashlei for almost 14 months. She is a happy, wonderful little girl. Like Richard said, every older toddler adoption is different. Just go in expecting the worst and hoping for the best. And patience is a must. It is such a wonderful age and I'm glad to see people adopting children this age.

[kff]

Thanks Richard and Sheri for your advice. Unfortunatly I don't have a choice but to do it alone. I read the Weaver's Craft which opened my eyes to potential problems. It turns out Skyla has been exclusively in foster care for the past 11 months. As Karen in CA mentioned before, this could be a double edged sword as Skyla will most likely grieve a lot as I found out she is very attached to her foster mom.
A few things in our favor though, the foster family has two daughters and I have a picture of them with Skyla sitting on the foster dad's lap. So I'm hoping at least she won't be so scared of a me. When we do bring Skyla home we're also hoping our 7 year old with help a great deal with the transition.
Yes Ricahard this is my first adoption, but not the first child so I may have a bit of an edge-but not much! Like you said Sheri I am expecting the worst and hoping for the best. I hope she's not too terrified of me!
-Frank

Karen- sorry to get off topic of this thread- Travel question: has anybody rented a Panda Phone?

[jerusha]

thanks for the tips! still long way to go for a lot of us , but still taking notes!!!: