[newtoadoption]

As for the new "net assests" rule that I have seen...

Can someone please explain to me exactly what that means? Is it the same as your net worth? If so, what exactly can be included in your assets? Does your retirement and 401K count?

[Kara_P 13]

we counted our 401k and retirement fund. They are assets. Net assets are the same as net worth in my opinion and according to my agency.

[KarenInCa]

Kara, I did not say anything about mistakes. Mistakes and knowingly ignoring (not stretching, but avoiding) the guidelines for adoption are two different things. Not that it's important, but actually, we did not leave anything, knowingly, out of the homestudy. DH had to send away for info from the police department, because when he was a young teen he broke windows on an abandoned building. And I disclosed that I was divorced, because of an abusive relationship. I did not know if that would hinder our report at the time. We disclosed every small detail, even when we were unsure of the results. However, you and I both know that a small stretch like $1,700 is not the same as completely ignoring a major guideline that could effect the child in the future. So, everyone must decide what is important enough, for the benefit of the child, we all have to live with the decisions we make.
DH and I will only be married 4.5 years when we want to try to adopt again, so we will not be meeting the requirements at that time. I feel badly for parents that will not qualify now, at all. It's devistating when it happens to anyone, especially after starting the process. And with so many people that want to have a child for so long, this is one more disappointment. I would have been really devistated. Please keep in mind that my post was made as a non-emotional post, in an emotionally charged thread.
My point was though, that China's best interest is in the children. And although it seems harsh to us that many children are kept in orphanages, especially with so many that are willing to be excellent parents, I truly believe that China would rather keep them in China to contribute to their country, rather than release them to us without meeting their high (now higher) standards and expectations.

[Chrysanthemum]

Originally Posted by Petsitter

We, too will be knocked out of the China program with these new rules. I am thrilled that we got in for Aiden, but sad that we will be unable to bring home a daughter from China. My husband says that we may have to look in to a different country, but I have always felt that ALL of my children were in China.

I always felt that my children would be born in Guatemala as that is where I adopted my 5 year old from. I fell in love with the country. Now, I feel the same way about China.
You never know where life takes you!

[lovemybulldog]

Are these rule changes set in stone or are they still just rumor? Is it possible that these are the changes that they are considering rather than what has actually been decided upon? I would hate for someone just studying the China program to be scared off by rumors here.

From everything I've studied, China seems to have the most stable program widely available to US adoptive families. Although incredibly frustrating to those affected, I don't get the impression that China makes decisions and/or changes to cause further detriment to the kids.

Many resources are strained when the number of adoptions increase, including consulate staffing, guides, etc. I'm sure there are countless reasons why it's not so easy to just make kids paper ready and/or make SWI's open to international adoption.

There are some countries that IMHO don't have the most trustworthy programs, so I am personally glad that, regardless of the wait, my child will be waiting for me when I get there.

If everything stated is really set in stone, then we can only hope that once waits settle down, there will be some flexibility with some of the health related rules. I have a non-life threatening seizure disorder that is controlled by medication, but it's hard to say how non-medical professionals from another country will see it...Some people with high BMI numbers are much healthier than skinny people... I could go on all day why it's not all black and white.

[Kara_P 13]

Originally Posted by KarenInCa

Kara, I did not say anything about mistakes. Mistakes and knowingly ignoring (not stretching, but avoiding) the guidelines for adoption are two different things. Not that it's important, but actually, we did not leave anything, knowingly, out of the homestudy. DH had to send away for info from the police department, because when he was a young teen he broke windows on an abandoned building. And I disclosed that I was divorced, because of an abusive relationship. I did not know if that would hinder our report at the time. We disclosed every small detail, even when we were unsure of the results. However, you and I both know that a small stretch like $1,700 is not the same as completely ignoring a major guideline that could effect the child in the future. So, everyone must decide what is important enough, for the benefit of the child, we all have to live with the decisions we make.
DH and I will only be married 4.5 years when we want to try to adopt again, so we will not be meeting the requirements at that time. I feel badly for parents that will not qualify now, at all. It's devistating when it happens to anyone, especially after starting the process. And with so many people that want to have a child for so long, this is one more disappointment. I would have been really devistated. Please keep in mind that my post was made as a non-emotional post, in an emotionally charged thread.
My point was though, that China's best interest is in the children. And although it seems harsh to us that many children are kept in orphanages, especially with so many that are willing to be excellent parents, I truly believe that China would rather keep them in China to contribute to their country, rather than release them to us without meeting their high (now higher) standards and expectations.

So, what rules, by your estimation is are okay to stretch or skirt. Not everything is or can be black and white. What would you do if you knew someone was skirting the rules in a way that you considered unacceptable?? Say I had a a condition that required medical intervention, it was not life threatening, but did require meds, what would you do?? What if I was fudging more than $1700 say 11,000. That means I still had assets of $69,000.

What makes you more right than me?? Or anyone else on this board for that matter. You have to live with your decisions as I have to live with mine. Their is one judge for me, and Karen, you are not it. I know of one child who most likely would have died in China, were it not for the decisions her parents made, regardless of whether they were right or wrong in your eyes or my eyes.

You made a choice to post a very cold and callous set of comments in an emotionally charged thread. You should expect some people to not take your comments and thoughts without some anger or hurt. You should know that it will likely get a rise out of some people. Think before you post and be considerate of those who have had their hopes dashed by this newest set of guidelines. I was there friday before I got confirmation from my agency that I was okay. Good Day Karen, and I don't expect you to understand.

K~

[MJL2005]

Hi,

I know these are all rumors at this point, and noone knows anything for sure. But, I was curious if anyone has heard if this is just for NSN or does it cover SN as well. As a single parent adopting my first child, I have to say I had a sinking feeling when I first saw this too. I always planned to have at least 2 children, if not more and had hoped to be able to adopt from China again. I hadn't seen anyone mention this before so wondered if anyone knew. I'm sorry to anyone this has touched and wish you all the best.

Thanks,
Miranda

[Kara_P 13]

Originally Posted by MJL2005

Hi,

I know these are all rumors at this point, and noone knows anything for sure. But, I was curious if anyone has heard if this is just for NSN or does it cover SN as well. As a single parent adopting my first child, I have to say I had a sinking feeling when I first saw this too. I always planned to have at least 2 children, if not more and had hoped to be able to adopt from China again. I hadn't seen anyone mention this before so wondered if anyone knew. I'm sorry to anyone this has touched and wish you all the best.

Thanks,
Miranda

Miranda,
The CCAA has an annual meeting, usually agencies have some kind of idea about what is going to come out, but I think some of the changes may have come more out of left field. I don't know for sure, but I know for me just applying for our second child, the net assets thing scared me because we just bought a new van. We barely make it.

K~

[Lissa]

Most of the agencies have known for awhile change was coming, just what those changes were going to be were unkinown. My agency told me one of the things being discussed (but did not happen) was one parent would have to have a college degree etc. My agency (and I doubt any of the agencies) know specifics yet...for instance what defines illness. Does diabities for instance knock you out? We know the blind cannot adopt anymore, but what about the deaf? We know that anxiety and depression are problematic, but what does that mean? Is one episode going to knock you out or are they referring to long term conditions only? Will there possibly be exceptions...for instance if you've adopted before will they allow you a second? If you adopt a SN child will there be allowances made for singles or high BMI's etc.? No one knows those particulars yet and won't until the CCAA officially author and post thier full written statement and send them to the agencies and post them on their website.

This 330lbs mama though is in acceptance mode. I love China, always will...I hope for her children only the best.

[Bachmas]

I must add my 2 cents, also as we are being affected by these new rules. We looked into beginning our paperchase for DH #2 last month. I contacted our agency and questioned them about income and asset requirements. We did not meet the $10K per family member, though our assets exceeded the $80K (due solely to an insurance settlement). We submitted a pre-approval request and were denied. I was not surprised but it sure did hurt when we were notified. DH and I had always felt that our children would be found in China, also. We fell in love with the people there. It felt as though our family roots grew in China. For a few days, I mourned our loss of our future Chinese daughter. I mourned the fact that our daughter would not have a sister that shared her ethnic history. And then I moved on. We looked into other countries and found ourselves being pulled toward Vietnam. The more I investigated VN culture, people and customs, the more I found myself drawn to their country. I now find myself excited and eager to experience a new country, a new dream. I had felt as though I had lost my future daughter, but then I came to realize that I hadn't lost her, I was looking in the wrong place. I hope and pray that each of you find your child, where ever they might be.

[crick]

As it's been stated already....this is an emotional topic and one that not everyone agrees on.

Please post respectfully and maybe take a minute to review what you write before you hit submit. Fine to disagree, but there's no reason for character attacks or judgement. We've asked once for the respect rule to be followed and while we want everyone to have a place to vent, it needs to be done without attacking others. Not only is it uncalled for, but it creates a thread where others might not be comfortable to post and instead of focusing on the true intent of the thread it becomes a battleground.

So for that reason....if you are unable to post respectfully or a personal battle ensues between members, you will not be able to post on this thread any longer.

To all posting respectfully, thank you!

[hugs_trees]

Well...if all this is true, it pretty much puts us out of the running. And while my husband's doctor has assured us that his CF will in all likelihood not affect his lifespan, the diagnosis and the anti-anxiety meds he took immediately after the diagnosis are a permanent part of his medical history. Regardless of all that, with our student loans, there is no way our net worth will approach $80,000 by May. It really just makes me wonder how many doors are going to close in our faces, and if I even have the energy left to keep looking for new doors.

I find it pretty ironic that the reason that we need to pursue adoption is the the reason we're not allowed to.

[oleson1]

Just throwing this out there...

I wonder if the restrictions are temporary. Right now, there seems to be quite a backlog in processing paperwork because there are so many families adopting from China.

Perhaps, as they get caught up on the referrals, and see that they have a surplus of paper ready orphans (that is the business major in me -- always looking at the supply/demand curve), maybe they will slowly relax the rules again.

Just a thought...

[erinp]

I just talked to my agency. She acted very hesitant and told us not to send in our agreement until we know without a doubt what the new rules are. She was especially concerned about my husband and I both being divorced before - a combined 2 previous marriages.

I feel sick.

[Lissa]

Erin, just know agencies are going to be uber cautious right now. Take a breath and go do something nice for yourself. Once all the bruhaha settles down agencies will be more willing to discuss what's going on and be more forthcoming with information.