[Happy2Bhere]

Since this is my "venting" ground, here it goes:

My daughter started preschool last week. I know I am being WAY too overly critical of her teachers, class, etc. She's never been to daycare, and I know it is alot about me giving up control.

However, I do have some issues, I would love someone to validate them, or tell me to chill out :-)

1) They have a big, fenced yard, with lots of little tykes equipment. Very appealing eye candy for the kids. BUT, they don't go outdoors, they choose to do music & movement indoors.
2) They sent my daughter home on day 3 with a runny nose- called an hour after she got there & said she was sneezing & wiping her nose. Then, yesterday, the secretary of the church, who should know all the rules, was dropping her daughter off with snot dripping down to her mouth. (I didn't see it- my husband dropped her off)
3) They have mailboxes for the kids. They are supposed to check their own mail & put it in their backpacks. My daughter is a little shrimp, the shortest by far in her class, and hers is the TOP mailbox, she can't even see or reach it.
4) We went in today, and they had moved everyones cubby's over one, because a new girl was starting, and they wanted everyone to be in alphabetic order. How important is that, when the kids are used to their cubby by now, on week 3? How many times will they move them during the year as new kids come & go?
5) When we pick up the kids, the assistant is at the CLOSED door, sees us, dismisses the child, then shuts the door. It's like she's the secret service for the teacher, her body guard- so noone actually gets to talk to the teacher or go in the classroom.
As I am writing this- I am laughing at some of it- thinking I should be the first one to say CHILL to myself, ha ha, but on the other hand, we pay good money for preschool, it is her first experience outside of the house, as well as our first experience giving up control, & letting someone else be "in charge"
So, ladies & gentleman of this board, is this NORMAL preschool, and I need to chill, or is this weird, and I am justified in thinking it's a little off?
Go easy on me- I am a 3rd shift worker, so I am not fully functioning as I am writing this :-)
Ok- have at it!
Thanks in advance!
Melissa
PS I wrote on my daughters chart no apple juice- she's allergic to it, and of course, day 1, they gave it to her.

[Lissa]

1) They have a big, fenced yard, with lots of little tykes equipment. Very appealing eye candy for the kids. BUT, they don't go outdoors, they choose to do music & movement indoors.
Lydia's daycare same thing. They only go out though when it is ideal weather and there is no standing water/mud. They haven't been out in a long while as it's been pretty wet around here lately.

2) They sent my daughter home on day 3 with a runny nose- called an hour after she got there & said she was sneezing & wiping her nose. Then, yesterday, the secretary of the church, who should know all the rules, was dropping her daughter off with snot dripping down to her mouth. (I didn't see it- my husband dropped her off)
The child may have known allergies. They let Lydia's nose "slide' too if the snot is clear cause she's an allergy girl.

3) They have mailboxes for the kids. They are supposed to check their own mail & put it in their backpacks. My daughter is a little shrimp, the shortest by far in her class, and hers is the TOP mailbox, she can't even see or reach it.

That's stupid tell them to move it.

4) We went in today, and they had moved everyones cubby's over one, because a new girl was starting, and they wanted everyone to be in alphabetic order. How important is that, when the kids are used to their cubby by now, on week 3? How many times will they move them during the year as new kids come & go?

Maybe they are using the cubbies to teach the alphabet and how to alphabetize? I know, grasping there, but MAYBE!!

5) When we pick up the kids, the assistant is at the CLOSED door, sees us, dismisses the child, then shuts the door. It's like she's the secret service for the teacher, her body guard- so noone actually gets to talk to the teacher or go in the classroom.

Uh NOOOOO, wrong answer. All our classrooms have those 1/2 doors. The bottom is shut but not the top. They only close the whole door at naptimes and even then if I want in, they let me in. I talk to her teachers when I want as long as it's business hours and the children are being minded. That's not cool the way your daycare is doing it, not even a little. They need to invest in gates or something similar.

[Happy2Bhere]

Thanks for replying.
I was sitting here stewing.
At least you said that about the outdoor for your daughters preschool, too- but we are in Iowa, great weather, dry, etc. My husband said yesterday "Oh, it looks like a great day to get the kids outside" (71, perfect!) The associate said "We can't be sure everyone would be dressed appropriately or have coats"
The allergy thing- I can buy that, but they sent home my daughter the day AFTER giving her apple juice that she is allergic to- maybe hers was allergies, as well? It was clear, and she sneezed & wiped her nose.
Ok, don't get me started.
I will take your reply as CHILL, some is normal, some is not, or am I grasping here, as well? :-)
Melissa
PS It is a preschool- 2 1/2 hours a day. You'd think when they dismissed, the parents would be allowed in, or have SOME access to the main teacher.

[jbzanie]

1) They have a big, fenced yard, with lots of little tykes equipment. Very appealing eye candy for the kids. BUT, they don't go outdoors, they choose to do music & movement indoors.

Maybe it is too hot? I'm not sure where you live. We live in GA and they tend to stay more indoors on certain days. Otherwise, I think outside play should be mandatory.


2) They sent my daughter home on day 3 with a runny nose- called an hour after she got there & said she was sneezing & wiping her nose. Then, yesterday, the secretary of the church, who should know all the rules, was dropping her daughter off with snot dripping down to her mouth. (I didn't see it- my husband dropped her off)

Unless they have a fever, typically our daycare will take them. Heck if ever kid who had a runny nose was sent home, no one would be there.

3) They have mailboxes for the kids. They are supposed to check their own mail & put it in their backpacks. My daughter is a little shrimp, the shortest by far in her class, and hers is the TOP mailbox, she can't even see or reach it.

At ours this the parent's responsibility to check cubbies. There is a big sign when you walk into the classroom.

4) We went in today, and they had moved everyones cubby's over one, because a new girl was starting, and they wanted everyone to be in alphabetic order. How important is that, when the kids are used to their cubby by now, on week 3? How many times will they move them during the year as new kids come & go?

seems weird to me. kids at this age is all about structure and repetiveness.


5) When we pick up the kids, the assistant is at the CLOSED door, sees us, dismisses the child, then shuts the door. It's like she's the secret service for the teacher, her body guard- so noone actually gets to talk to the teacher or go in the classroom.

again weird. I like to talk to the teacher to see what has happened during the day.

Jen

[SofiasMom]

My daughter went to a wonderful (well mostly wonderful) preschool. Here's my experience.

1) There was a scheduled outdoor playtime in the small courtyard (bikes, balls, climbing equipment, little playhouse). And unless it rained,those kids were out there running around like mad.

2) The rule was if the snot was green (sorry!), the child was contagious and would be told not to come to school the next day. Another mother told me that was a myth??

3) Bring the mailbox to their attention. Sometimes its hard to think of everything that would make things easier for each kid.

4) that's crazy and I'd mention it
a) to the director or
b) f there a parent night coming up you can mention or
c)when you have your one-on-one with the teachers

5) Is the teacher doing something with the class and having parents come in/out would be disturbing? Maybe they don't see how the "closed door" policy makes it feel unfriendly to parents. Another topic to discuss with the director.

Good luck.

[twoinblue]

Does the room have cameras or a one-way mirror where you can observe what goes on? If so they might not open up the door unless you specifically ask. Did you ask if you could go in? Does your coming coincide with a class or event going on inside that you would disrupt?

Seeing parents picking up kids has a tendency to set off the little ones who are left behind. There's nothing like a bunch of little kids crying "I want my mommy for two hours".

[Happy2Bhere]

Thanks for the replies.
Today when I picked up Annabelle, they were outside playing. I thought it was fishy, since the associate said they RARELY if ever go out. Well, lo & behold, they had visitors checking out the preschool :-)
As for the disruption if we went INSIDE, preschool is 9-11:30. Most parents arrive at 11:25. They won't dismiss until 11:30. You would think they would open the door & let parents at least come in to get the kids, since they have only 10 minutes from the time preschool is over, to pick up the kids. But, they dismiss one by one, open the door & say CHECK YOUR MAILBOX then shut the door back up.
I did ask about the cubbies, lockers & mailboxes & the associate said that the teacher finds it easier to put things in, if it is in alphabetic order. I said "Don't you think it's confusing for a not even 3 year old?" She said we will do it all year as needed to accomadate new kids, and keep in alphabetic order.
Whatever. I am just going to look at it as a playdate- if she learns, fine- at least they are licensed teachers. Still seems weird to me............
Thanks again!

[Lissa]

Melissa I don't like this place. Just sounds too controlling to me. I want to be able to come in whenever I want, or at very least be able to view them. (One school here has a live webcam feed all day.) Ours is open and I can visit and I can view tapes for up to one year of daily goings on.

[elemomma]

As a former preschool teacher, I can assure you that the door is closed and policed, so that the children do not get upset or try to run out of the room when they see the parents coming. A good teacher will keep the children focused and occupied so that pick up can occur without any downtime in the classroom. Downtime is when most problems occur. Pick up runs alot smoother if everyone is in one place and just one child is called up at a time. Just to give you an example suppose you have a mom with three kids all at one preschool. ( this is me!) She knows that her son is the one that she doesn't want to drag with her to pick up the other two. But, she has to walk by her son's room to get to the daughter's rooms. If the door was open, the son would run to the door and try to escape and the poor mother would end up trying to contain the escapee while picking up the other children. Can you see here why it would be better for the door to stay closed and the teacher to interact with the children, so that moms can peacefully pick up all their children and their are no escapees running the halls? I am actually a child developmentalist and I know that it is actually healthier and more emotionally fulfilling for a child to not see a crowd gathered to pick up kids and their parent is not among the crowd. If the children's attention is elsewhere, then the fear of abandonment won't seep into their little minds.

Yes, so I am saying chill out. Most preschools have practiced methods and determined what is best through trial and error. Though we think we know what is best for our children, their teachers know what is best for all the children. Oh yeah and the alphabetical thing is not for the children, it is for the teachers who sort out the stuff and put it in the boxes. It is alot easier to sort if you are going alphabetically, then to keep walking around looking at every box to see who's it is. Much faster, and then more attention is spent on your child than sorting their stuff. It's a win, win for everybody!

[waiting4katie]

ereWe had some questions/concerns on our pre-school also...we spent 2 years with them (we were new in town, our well respected realtor suggested them) until we started asking questions of other area preschools. My concern grew when I heard a mom complaining in the park to another mom that our preschool was nothing more than a glorified daycare. At first I felt a little defensive. Then my daughter substituted at my sons preschool and she said the same thing. We also had problems with another student who would pinch, bite, and scratch the other children. Well, soon my son came home with scratches/gouges. One was a half inch from his bottom eyelid and 2 in. long and bleeding. This was the second time. Their response was my 4 yr old should learn to handle this with his words. Well in comes my husband who is an administrator for a local large school district. He in no uncertain terms made it very clear to the preschool director that this will not happen to our child again. (I tend to discuss things emotionally and my husband gets better results) We wanted the child expelled. They agreed and said they would. The next day the parents of this child wanted my husband to scold their son in their presence because they did not know how to handle him. He said this is not my responsibility, so no. Then the Director said she had a solution and would place this misbehaving child in the older kids class, so he could be taught a lesson. Well, our 5 yr old was in that class and we said this also was unacceptable. So they placed this little monster with the 3 yr olds and he continued to behave the same and hurt the younger kids. So I guess what I am trying to say...if you "feel" things aren't right, maybe they are not. I passed things off as maybe it's me (until the gouging incident) adjusting to handing my children over to others, their seperation anxiety as well as my own. I will always go with my gut instinct from now on! Our next preschool was warm and welcoming to parents, open and accessible. It felt the way it should be. Both the kids and myself were in a much better place educationally and emotionally. Good luck! ~ Kim

[sak9645]

Here are my thoughts:

1) They have a big, fenced yard, with lots of little tykes equipment. Very appealing eye candy for the kids. BUT, they don't go outdoors, they choose to do music & movement indoors.

I've seen a lot of day care centers like this, and I don't like them. Frankly, it takes more effort to get children ready to play outside, and more vigilance to supervise for safety. So some centers skimp on outdoor exercise for the convenience of the staff, even though it would really benefit the kids to be outside as much as possible. I would urge you to shop around.

My daughter started out in a day care center that had less outdoor time than I thought appropriate, even with great playground equipment. And when the kids were outside, some of the staff seemed to stand around and talk, rather than interacting with the children and supervising for safety.

Later, however, I put her in a day care center that had long morning and afternoon outdoor play sessions as long as it wasn't raining, snowing, or below 35 degrees out. In addition, during the summer, it had water play sessions where children changed to swimsuits and played with water tables, garden hoses, and a small wading pool that was drained and washed every day for hygiene. Three staff were on duty at all times.

Parents should be expected to send children with weather-appropriate clothing. Frequent notes should be provided, outlining what clothing should be sent, especially if some parents are forgetting. If a parent consistently forgets to send the right clothing, the day care center or preschool may not be the right place for that family.

If a child does not have weather-appropriate clothing, staff have various options. First, they can call a parent and ask him/her to bring what is needed. Second, if that isn't feasible, because the parent is too far away or unavailable, they can see if there is any suitable clothing in the lost and found box; they can also establish a little "back-up" box where extra sweaters and such are kept. Third, one staffer can stay indoors with the child, so that the others can play outside.

2) They sent my daughter home on day 3 with a runny nose- called an hour after she got there & said she was sneezing & wiping her nose. Then, yesterday, the secretary of the church, who should know all the rules, was dropping her daughter off with snot dripping down to her mouth. (I didn't see it- my husband dropped her off)

All day care centers should have written illness policies, which are given to the parents when they enroll a child, and reinforced with notes as needed. As an example, a policy should say that a family may not send a child who has fever, until 24 hours after the temperature has returned to normal. It should say that a mild case of the sniffles is OK, but that a child should be kept home if he/she is clearly uncomfortable or likely to infect other children. Policies should also cover things like head lice, vomiting, diarrhea, strep, etc.

Remember that germs are passed more frequently by hand than by mouth. If a child is constantly wiping his/her nose with his/her hand, and has a cold or sinus infection, he/she is going to pass germs to others every time he/she touches a toy, a railing, etc. A good day care center should emphasize frequent handwashing as a way of minimizing germ transmission. It should also advise the parent of a really drippy nosed kid that, unless the drip is allergy-related (in which case the parent should be encouraged to seek treatment), the child should be kept home because he/she can infect others easily.

3) They have mailboxes for the kids. They are supposed to check their own mail & put it in their backpacks. My daughter is a little shrimp, the shortest by far in her class, and hers is the TOP mailbox, she can't even see or reach it.

Kids should start learning responsibility at an early age, but they cannot be perfect about it at an early age. It is reasonable that teachers should expect preschoolers to check their mailboxes for notes at the end of the day. But they should not expect preschoolers to do this without a reminder at dismissal time. And a teacher should be observing to make sure that each child, indeed, picks up the notes and puts them into his/her backpack.

If a teacher was observing, he/she would have seen that your child could not reach her mailbox. Again, I think that this school is being run for the convenience of the teachers, and that some folks think that having kids check their own mailboxes absolves them from the necessity for supervising. I think you should be shopping around for a different center but, meanwhile, just be sure to tell the staff that your child can't reach her mailbox.

4) We went in today, and they had moved everyones cubby's over one, because a new girl was starting, and they wanted everyone to be in alphabetic order. How important is that, when the kids are used to their cubby by now, on week 3? How many times will they move them during the year as new kids come & go?

I think it's great if kids are being taught to recognize their names, written prominently on their cubbies, as well as the alphabet in its correct order. However, my guess is that the reason for moving the cubbies around has nothing to do with the curriculum. Again, it seems to be a matter of teacher convenience. It's easier for teachers to find a cubby if its location corresponds to the child's place on the class list.

Personally, I think that kids like having a cubby that is "theirs" for the year. It gives a sense of security. I remember one little girl in my daughter's class who actually liked to stand by her cubby for several minutes, after her Mom dropped her off, just to feel secure before joining the rest of the class. The cubby became her security zone.

5) When we pick up the kids, the assistant is at the CLOSED door, sees us, dismisses the child, then shuts the door. It's like she's the secret service for the teacher, her body guard- so noone actually gets to talk to the teacher or go in the classroom.

Again, this is a classroom run for the teachers' convenience.

Yes, arrival and dismissal times are often very chaotic. In the morning, the teachers want to get the children in and settled, and the parents to leave, so that their routine can begin. At night, the teachers want the children to leave with their parents as soon as possible, so they can clean up the classroom and leave. That is THEIR goal. And I can sympathize with it.

HOWEVER, there are more important goals. At night, many children want to show their parents their latest drawings, which are on the bulletin board, or their latest Lego creations, before they are taken apart. This should be encouraged, as it shows that the children are learning and creating.

At night, some of the kids who had the hardest time separating from their parents in the morning will have the hardest time finishing up their play and leaving. They simply have difficulty with transitions. The parent should be allowed to come into the classroom to help the child move through the transition, put away his/her toys, gather up his/her belongings, say goodbye to the teacher and the room, and so on. It will make for a much happier departure.

No, teachers won't have time for extended parent conferences at arrival and dismissal time. The teachers simply have to focus on the children, and on having BRIEF interactions with parents -- like, "Johnny didn't eat his lunch today," or "Susie did such a great job of sharing today." Parents who want to have a sit-down conference should schedule one for a time when there will be enough teachers in the room that one can spend 15 or 20 minutes outside the room with a them.

But otherwise, the classroom should always be open to parents. Parents need the openness to assure themselves that everything is safe and welcoming, and that there is no hint of abuse. And those brief interactions with teachers can also be very important. For example, if the teacher says that your child seemed very tired, you might want to keep an eye on her to be sure that she isn't coming down with some bug. Or if the teacher says that your child showed lovely table manners, you can be sure to praise her -- and pat yourself on the back!

It is possible that the teachers are keeping the door shut at dismissal for security reasons. For example, they want to make sure that a child leaves only with the parent or guardian -- not with a stranger or by himself/herself. Security is very important these days.

However, there are alternatives to a closed-door classroom. As an example, most good day care centers have an outside door that can be opened by someone from the street only if he/she knows the code to enter into a push-button device, or rings a bell for admittance. And many large day care centers have a front desk, where a parent must sign in.

In addition, the teachers in a good day care center should know all the parents by sight, and should have an emergency card listing anyone else eligible to pick up a certain child. If they are supervising well, they should be able to notice if a person who enters is not a familiar one, and should be able to go over to that person and find out who he/she is. And if they are supervising well, they will notice if a child starts to leave the classroom without a parent.

6) (Apple juice given to a child, when the teachers were told she was allergic).

This is totally unacceptable.

While I've never heard of a child dying of apple juice allergy, kids have died from peanut allergy. Some kids can go into anaphylactic shock and die after even a tiny taste of a food containing peanuts. Kids also have died from things like bee stings.

A day care center should not just ask parents about allergies. It should make sure that all teachers are aware of the allergies of the children in their care, know what to do to prevent a reaction (e.g., not give a child certain foods), and know what to do if an allergic reaction occurs (e.g., use an Epi-pen provided by the parent to inject lifesaving medicine).

Sharon





As I am writing this- I am laughing at some of it- thinking I should be the first one to say CHILL to myself, ha ha, but on the other hand, we pay good money for preschool, it is her first experience outside of the house, as well as our first experience giving up control, & letting someone else be "in charge"
So, ladies & gentleman of this board, is this NORMAL preschool, and I need to chill, or is this weird, and I am justified in thinking it's a little off?

[gardener]

Take a deep breath. Chill out. Do remember we are not perfect and I would hate it if I was evaluated on all of my parenting decisions.

However, I do believe that your child should not have been given apple juice if she is allergic to it.

[robyncre]

I would look else where...number one rule of parenting is to trust your instincts...you have to be their voice.



1) They have a big, fenced yard, with lots of little tykes equipment. Very appealing eye candy for the kids. BUT, they don't go outdoors, they choose to do music & movement indoors.

Ridiclous, our preschool's rule is they go out everyday as long as it is not raining or freezing/hot hot. Kids need to run around and have fresh air, they LOVE it...the teachers may not...too bad. My 5 yr old's class last yr went out on snowy days and made snow angels/men! LOVED it! Our responsibility was to dress them appropriately.

2) They sent my daughter home on day 3 with a runny nose- called an hour after she got there & said she was sneezing & wiping her nose. Then, yesterday, the secretary of the church, who should know all the rules, was dropping her daughter off with snot dripping down to her mouth. (I didn't see it- my husband dropped her off)

Our center is fever rule....use your judgement on rest.

3) They have mailboxes for the kids. They are supposed to check their own mail & put it in their backpacks. My daughter is a little shrimp, the shortest by far in her class, and hers is the TOP mailbox, she can't even see or reach it.

RIDICLOUS and mean.

4) We went in today, and they had moved everyones cubby's over one, because a new girl was starting, and they wanted everyone to be in alphabetic order. How important is that, when the kids are used to their cubby by now, on week 3? How many times will they move them during the year as new kids come & go?

Crazy.

5) When we pick up the kids, the assistant is at the CLOSED door, sees us, dismisses the child, then shuts the door. It's like she's the secret service for the teacher, her body guard- so noone actually gets to talk to the teacher or go in the classroom.

This to me is the most concerning. We have a two way mirror and a glass see through door. We all stand there and watch our little ones. It is wonderful to see them interact without you...to see these little people emerging! I would have a huge problem with this...whats to hide?

You are not overreacting, it just doesn't sound like a great fit. LOL...from one momma bear to another!

[Momto3sofar]

This does not sound like a place I would leave my children....kids NEED to play outside, and the fact you can not go in there as the parent is a warning sign to me...what are they not wanting you to see?

I used to work at a Montessori at one time and parents were ALWAYS welcome .

Giving a child something they are allergic too!!! This could mean life and death to a friends child .
Them not even noticing your daughter can NOT reach her box...What else are they not noticing??!!

Find somewhere else ....

[Happy2Bhere]

HI!
Thanks for all the comments!
I talked to two parents while we waited for dismissal Friday & the one mom said "WE SHOULD BE ALLOWED IN THERE!" We did notice, however, that a new dad, his kid was there for the first time, he went right in & got her - so maybe we should just DO it?
Nevertheless, I am not happy, and I checked out other preschools after we left Friday. My daughter does enjoy it- she won't be 3 until the middle of October, and this is the only one in town that takes children before they turn 3.
I am definetly looking elsewhere. The funny thing- she is so smart, she wouldn't normally be a candidate for preschool- but she needs/wants the social interaction, and it's hard to find part time daycare just for social, so I thought this would be perfect.
I'm just glad I have a support system here.
Thanks!
MElissa