[Ashman]

Greetings. My wife and I are considering adoption. We are trying to decide whether to go to China or Russia. I would like to solicit opinions about the pros and cons of both. If you have adopted from both even better. Many thanks in advance for any assistance you can provide.

[drmalcolm]

Hi Ashman,
Have you posted this question yet on Russia's forum? I would recommend getting a good idea there first of whether reaccreditation problems have been worked out in that program. I recently received an email from one agency that we'd explored before choosing our China-only agency--it was notification that they were closing their Russia program for the time being (let me clarify: the agency was closing their Russia program, not that Russia was halting its adoption program).

I know we've had quite a few potential parents on this forum lately who have switched from the Russia program to the China program. That leads me to believe that maybe things are not looking encouraging there, but I honestly don't know, nor would I want to give the wrong impression.

In the meantime, if you are just looking for basics about China's program, I would recommend googling "Chinese adoption." Most agencies offer such informative overviews that you may have all of your questions answered (even if you just look on the site of an agency you have no intention of using). You may also want to check http://www.fwcc.org/topics.html for the website from Families With Children From China.

I will say that there have been some rumors that waiting time for a referral from China have gone up. If an agency website cites less than 10 months for a referral, I woudl chalk that up to it not being updated. Many folks here are saying that they've been told 10-14 months for a referral. Mine lists 11 months as the wait time from the point that all of your documents arrive in China until you receive a referral of a child (travel takes place about 6 weeks later).

Good luck with your search, and congrats on yoru decision to explore adoption.

Christina

[waiting4babies]

Since I have had alot of experience with one country and some experience with another I will give you my experience with both.

The Russian process can be very lenghty, stressful and expensive. The length of time and paperwork required depends on the region(s) that your agency works with. We had a nightmarish paperwork process because we ended up in a region that wanted everything redone including fingerprints every three months, no exceptions. It was very stressful not knowing when we would get a court date, but not all regions are so picky. Additionally, accreditation is important, so make sure the agency you select has accreditation or will be reaccredited otherwise you may have problems adopting in Russia. It took us exactly 13 months from trip 1 to trip 2 to bring our children home and the wait was awful. There is so much unceratinty when you wait this long that you fear the worst, so the uncertainty is difficult. This is not the norm, so choosing a region that is adoption friendly is important. I am not sure which ones are.

As far as China is concerned, we are waiting for our referral and I can tell you that the costs were minimal and the paperwork was minimal. Although the wait time has increased, the wait time is not that bad because in the end you know you will be receiving a referral no matter if it takes six months or 12 months. We were LID in June of last year, so that makes our wait 10 months this month and we will probably be waiting another one or two months, which is fine with me because when the time comes you know you will get a referral. This process was almost stress free compared to Russia's. This is only my opinion based on what I went through for Russia and what I have had to do for China.

[mrschawk]

I wanted to add something here. I saw on the Russian board that someone stated that getting a refferal for a little boy was impossible. Not so. It is not impossible to get a referral for a boy. My suggestion is to call a couple agencies that you are looking into a talk with one of their coordinators. I'm sure they would love to talk to you!

[waiting4babies]

We adopted two children from Russia, a boy and a girl
and there was no difference in difficulty of getting either or as a referral.

[Steffanie]

Here are my two cents for what it is worth. Yes, it is untrue that you cannot get a boy from Russia. We were trying to adopt a baby boy. You can. We waited 16 months for a referral that never came b/c of the accreditation issue. Our agency lost its accreditation last May 10, 2005. Russia, for whatever reason only re-accred. half of the agencies that were previously accred. I know that 3-5 were not going to be reaccred. b/c they did not follow up on post placement reports and other stuff. Our agency along with others had done everything correctly. Now the agencies that were re-accred. are due to lose their accrd. in May and Sept. I do not know if Russia is planning on re-accred. these agencies or not. The paperwork for Russia was more than China. We just finished re-doing our paperwork for China and are hoping for a DTC in early May. There have also been a lot of cases of abuse in the media about children that have been adopted from Russia. This also slowed down things. I am not saying don't adopt from Russia, I have heard of 2 families in my city that just adopted successfully from Russia in the past few months. My husband and I felt that it was not a good time for us to be adopting from Russia. Our agency is telling us that the referral time for China is 10-12 months. I take this with a grain of salt now, knowing that anything could change at anytime. It has been a long process, but it is what was supposed to happen for us. God has a plan for us and we are just following it. I hope you make your decision with peace of mind and peace in your heart. I say this b/c I have had more sleepless nights in the past 17 months than I have had all my life, wondering if we made the right decision. IA can be very stressful, trying, emotional and absolutely exciting, heart warming, eye opening all at the same time. When I first joined the Russian forum, I was welcomed by one member by saying welcome to the roller coaster ride of IA. This sums it up. I wish you luck with your journey whatever you decide. May God bless you.
Steffanie

[stayjay]

I have heard many heart-wrenching stories like steffani's about the Russia adoption program. I used to hop over to the Russia board to read up on it because we met a wonderful woman and her husband through our agency who are adopting from Russia. We both started our home studies at the same time and got fingerprinted at the same time etc. She just returned from her first trip and is due to travel back (hopefully) in a few months to bring her daughter home. They decided to stick it out through the re-accredidation process.

That said.....we are still waiting for a referral and the way things are going, with a Sept. LID we are most likely not going to travel this year to get our daughter.

My best advice? research both countries and follow your heart. There really is no right or wrong here. Best of luck to you in your decision. Keep us posted.

[Mailbox13]

We adopted our DS from Russia in 2003 prior to the reacredidation problems. We were LID in China July 2005. Here are my thoughts. As Stayjay indicated, ultimately you will have to follow your heart. For either country, choosing the right agency is a big part of the process. Do a lot of research, call references, interview the agencies, and weigh your options carefully. Choosing your agency may be the most important part of the process.

1. Cost wise, Russia is typically about 50% more than China. (30k versus 20K)
2. Russia requires two trips while China requires only one. (a big part of the increased costs)
3. We found the Russian paperwork process to be much more difficult and confusing. The Russian paperwork requirements can change in a heartbeat. China's paperwork doesn't change often.
4. I believe Russia still requires both parents to be at the court date. China only requires one parent to travel.
5. I am not sure how wait times compare currently. Our Russian adoption was about 7 or 8 months total. Our China adpoption will probably be 18 months total by the time we are done. (Agency application to child home)
6. If you are of European heritage, you will probably not have to deal with race issues when raising a Russian child. You will have to deal with this as you raise your Chinese child.
7. If you want a boy, you are much more likely to get one from Russia. Boys make up only 5% of the Chinese adoptions.

None of these things make Russia or China "better". Each are filled with beautiful children that could bless your life. You just have to go where you feel lead (and do a little research). We love our DS and we can't wait for his Mei Mei to come home.

[mrschawk]

Oops, In my above post I meant to state that you can get a CHINESE BOY!! Sorry for the confusion!

[Ashman]

Thanks to you all for your answers. Just a few moments on this board and I feel I have already learned alot. My wife and I are meeting with an agency rep tomorow and I feel I have better idea of what questions to ask. Thanks again. I look forward to learning more!

[lovemybulldog]

Ashman,

Sorry for the long post, but I feel like this thread could help others in the newbie/research mode.

My husband and I are in the same boat as you. As you can see from my signature, we have had our hearts set on Russia, but several factors made us start to look at other countries.

First of all, Russia seems to be putting the US under a microscope lately, with abuse allegations. Our chosen agency, which is one of the longest accredited with Russia, is on their supposed watch list and that makes me nervous.

Secondly, as I read through the dates chronicled on signatures, the wait times from application to final trip to Russia don't seem to be any quicker than some other countries. Those who start and finish in the same calendar year seem to be the exception, not the norm, so we've gotten the idea out of our heads that this will happen in a snap. We're settling into the mindset that we could be looking at a 18 month + process.

Also, I've noticed in my research, that the Russia process seems to be full of gifts, donations, and what I consider, almost bribes. I know that any country includes donations and gifts. I think it's proper. But, what I didn't like from reading blogs, stories, and accounts of trips to Russia, is that it seems like the system in general is a little shady. I guess I'm thinking about Russian mafia (too much Sopranos!) and their poor economic state.... China just seems more grateful and honorable in terms of how the approach americans and adoption of their children. Maybe I'm naive, but I just get a better feeling from countries like China, Korea and Guatamala (the others I've researched).

We have cousins who recently adopted from Korea and recent time spent with him helped us get over a little bit of an interracial mental block we had. We were set on keeping our Czech/Polish heritage by adopting eastern European, but after spending time with our little cousin, we realized that it didn't matter at all.

We also didn't like the 2-3 trip thing...along with the fact that long term fall out from FAE and institutionalization seem to be a consistent theme on the Russia board. While I would love the child no matter what, and know that I am not guaranteed a problem free child from China, it doesn't seem to be as rampant. The unknowns seem to be fewer.

On top of that, China just seems to be more stable and looking past the wait times, it sounds like boys are available, eventhough many people claim they are not.

Good luck in you quest for information! I'm right there with you!