[May4u2nvme]

sigh... we have been turned away by two "Christian" adoption services because we are Catholic...I don't get it! One of the requierments in Chritianity is that you beleive in and accept Jesus Christ as your savior. I understand that there are some differences in churches, but we are in all sences Christian people. Why then do organisations discriminate in this way? It does not seem very Christian at all. And what if we do not attend church on a regular basis, we still pray and have faith, and try our best to be "good Christians" just because someone goes to church every Sunday doesn't make them a good Christian. If they get all dressed up and go to Sunday services/mass and when they get out of the parking lot they cut someon off and give them the finger what type of Christian is that? I am sorry, but I am confused and venting a bit. But I am frustrated and confused about all this. We don't have any money to pay for expensive agencies, and we found a couple that were free if you where a Christian, but according to these places we aren't. Last night during our prayers we prayed that God would shed light on finding a way to be able to afford adoption, when I found the web site to the "Christian organization" (and on their web site it said you did not have to be a member of their church) I was sure that we had heard our answer, but now what? Well I guess when we make our way to the "pearly gates" we shall see who did the Christian thing? Thanks for letting me babble on and vent. I don't mean to get anyone upset over what I wrote. God bless you all.

[Shoshana]

and i'm sorry you had to go through this. you're right -- it seems terribly unfair -- and (in my opinion) unethical.

this isn't the first time i've heard of some christian denominations not considering catholics christians.

i looked into adopting from haiti but most of the orphanages were run by christian missionaries -- i'm jewish. so their response was that it was better the child be in the orphanage than to be raised by a non-christian. ?????

hang in there, and i'm sure you'll find a way to make your dreams a reality.

best wishes!

[deenie2003]

Hi, we also are practicing catholics and I thought about that when I looked into Christian agencies. There are certain Chrisitian groups that do not believe Catholics are Christians and certainly wouldn't want you adopting a child and raising it Catholic. Good luck with your search. We are using a private Catholic agency. Maybe there is one in your area.
Blessings
Claudine

[May4u2nvme]

Thank you Shoshana! I told my husband and he laughed he thought it wasn't fair too, but he said that maybe they knew that we want to name our son Isaac. lol said maybe that's why. My brother married a Jewish woman that was adopted by an orthodox family. To me religion and what you practice is not an issue, but apparently for some people it is. Thanks for your support, by the way happy belated Yom Kippur!


May

Claudine, Thanks I will look into it but there are not many Catholic churches in our area. I grew up in LA and am now in a small urban area of Washington and I have yet to see a "Catholic" Church closer than an hour or more. But will give it a try

[LynMaria]

May, please contact Catholic Charities in your state. They provide adoption services and if they don't in your town, they can refer you to a nearing Catholic Charity Org. that does. I'm Catholic. We, Catholics have been discriminated against for as long as i can remember. I reside in the buckle of the 'Bible belt', and LET ME TELL YOU.....life here has been a trip! With "Christians" so quick to judge who is and who isn't Christian, let's face it...who needs enemies? Why Catholicism was founded by Jesus, himself!!! You keep your head high and don't give up. Do those agencies know they could be sued for discrimination? I am as outraged as you are...I have seen and experienced the discrimination all my life. To even further add fuel, i am Italian, my husband is hispanic, our adoptive daughter is AA/Cauc. Believe me, we have seen discrimination !!!

[carriewoman]

What part of Washington are you in? I am also in washington and know of a Catholic Family Services here close. I am LDS, but am non active, because of that I am not able to use thier agency either! Catholic Family Services told me they would accept our application, but (as the lady on the phone said) most expectant mothers going through them were looking for a Catholic family. We kinda figured we wouldn't be presented fairly through them, but if you are Catholic you would be. We are looking into independent adoption, that could be a good thought for you too, seems to be a little cheaper than an agency. Email me sometime if you like, we could share info!
carriewoman1977@hotmail.com
Good luck!
Carrie

[May4u2nvme]

Lyn,
Thanks for the support I will try to plug away. It just is so frustrating to go through all this. We are trying so hard. It just seems unfair that we have to work so much to have a child when there are people who can just get pregnant and have a family. We have 4 pregnant friends and family member, and a few more that just had their second child. Not to mention the cost, and we just dont have the money to make it simpler. We had hoped to be able to get a loan, and just pay and move on with the process, but we can't and don't have that kind of money. Sorry... venting again. Anyway thank you for your encouraging words. I too know about descrimination, this is not the first time in my life I have had to go through it since I am Hispanic, and I have survived before so I imagine I will survive again.

[LynMaria]

May, i would start contacting all Catholic Charities throughout the country. You, being hispanic will open a few more doors....as you know, a hispanic birthmom would be more apt to place her child with a hispanic couple. Texas, Florida, Mass. are states I would encourage you to start with. Have you guys considered a waiting child? Meaning an older child....? Toddlers can be found. We were matched with a 4 yo Puerto Rican boy in New York and now just waiting to bring him home. He is special needs. Feel free to email me. Are you networking everywhere you go? Start frequenting your are supermercados. Spread the word to everyone that you are waiting to adopt. You are in my prayers. Don't give up.

[May4u2nvme]

Gracias, I will call my Tia in CA and she can easily get me some #'s my prima works for the church I think and I am sure she can help. Will try and keep chin up. Thanks again

[stella]

I had no idea this went on! My husband and I are learning much about the Catholic Church these days (we attend our first RCIA class tonight). Our best friends are parents to our two God children and have decided to become Catholic, so we are educatiing ourselves. That is our duty as Godparents!

I have never believed that Catholics aren't Christians, but I did have a lot of misconceptions about the RC church. I'm really pleased to find that I was wrong!

I do disagree with one part of what you said... which maybe I took out of context (let me know if I did). "To me religion and what you practice is not an issue, but apparently for some people it is."

Religion usually is an issue for the birth parents. Whether they are religious are not, they typically want their child brought up in a religious home because of what that means. Religious Adoptive parents are accountable to someone other than themselves and the world.

A homestudy may show that you are a good family this year, but being an active Christian/religious person insinuates that you will uphold that standard for more than a home examination. You are accountable to each other as bretheren, and ultimately, God. Granted, this doesn't hold true all of the time... but the liklihood of finding parents with such standards is better in a Christian/religious home.

I'm hoping you can find an agency to help you very soon. I know this has to be agonizing.

Stella

[Shoshana]

I disagree with this statement:

" A homestudy may show that you are a good family this year, but being an active Christian/religious person insinuates that you will uphold that standard for more than a home examination. You are accountable to each other as bretheren, and ultimately, God. Granted, this doesn't hold true all of the time... but the liklihood of finding parents with such standards is better in a Christian/religious home. "

It is this idea that has likely caused May4u2nvme to have a Christian agency tell her that being Catholic isn't Christian. The underlying assumption there is that "Christians" are better.

I also disagree that people who are not Christian are less able to "uphold" standards -- or to follow through on those "standards" after a homestudy (?). There are plenty of moral, ethical, loving people in this world who are not Christians. It troubles me to hear any person imply or state that one religious group is better able to parent than others -- including those who do not adhere to an organized religion. In my experience, Jews are some of the most religious and ethical people I know. That doesn't allow me to state (and I would never even consider stating) that they are any better or more capable than Christians.

Of course, a religious birth mother has every right to find a adoptive family who shares her beliefs. I believe it is a different scenario when we are talking orphaned children, however.

[stella]

Elizabeth,

I'm sorry I didn't clarify! First off, when I use the term 'Christian,' I am referring to Catholics as well. I don't differentiate between the two, and I don't know why this message board does (separate forums for 'Christians' and Catholics).

My only point is that it DOES matter if one is religious and practicing their faith. It says a lot about their bond to their community, each other, and their commitment to maintaing those bonds. Those are positive things that very clearly come with practicing one's faith!

A non religious couple CAN uphold standards (I have never beleived that they couldn't), but from a perceived point of view, when a birth mother is looking to place her child, I would imagine it is a bit more difficult to decipher where a non religious family stands on moral/family issues. If a couple says we are practicing __________s (fill in the blank), it gives a clear picture of where that family is coming from, and how they will raise the child.

I hope that clarifies my point a little better. I don't think we are saying terribly different things... perhaps I'm just not wording this well.

Stella

[Shoshana]

the clarification does help :-)

best wishes...

[May4u2nvme]

Stella,

I can see what you are trying to say, but the thing is that that is called ignorance and prejudice Not from you but from whoever thinks that way indefinitely. Your wrote...

"A non religious couple CAN uphold standards (I have never believed that they couldn't), but from a perceived point of view, when a birth mother is looking to place her child, I would imagine it is a bit more difficult to decipher where a non religious family stands on moral/family issues. If a couple says we are practicing __________s (fill in the blank), it gives a clear picture of where that family is coming from, and how they will raise the child."

I don't believe it gives any clearer a pic. A person could claim to be a Christian or whatever, Go to church every Sunday, and not be a good Christian at all. Some Christians think that once they leave church they have done their good and that was that until next Sunday. During the week they curse and use God's name in vain, they yell at their kids and at their spouses, they turn their head away to the general community (non-church member) because they don't want to help, and in their minds why should they, they are not members of the church so they are not as important. Well, in Christian faith you are supposed to help all, Baptists, Non-denominational, Protestant, Jewish, Atheist, etc. We are all God's Children. You can't possible be a "good Christian" or whatever your religion and turn your head the other way except a few hours on Sunday. Most people stereo type religions, and their followers. But all that is, is ignorance and prejudice. There are no guarantees in life.

Do you think that most of the Pregnant moms that make the choice for adoption that go to these "Christian Organizations" are actually Christian, and are specifically looking for a Christian family? I don't. Most of them don't necessarily have a preference, but since they signed up with that type of organization all they have to choose from are Christian families. It's the organizations choice as to who they accept. I think they should screen people yes, but not by their religious preference. And that they should show all candidates equally unless the birth mom asks specifically for a certain type of religious family. Are there organizations for just Caucasians? Would that not be prejudice? So even though it's a Christian organization they shouldn't be able to turn you away simply because you are Catholic or any other faith.

A religious couple CAN'T or CAN uphold standards any more or less than any other couple. That is information fed to people when they go to certain agencies, and speak to other affiliation including churches who really should not be making statements or assumptions like that. The picture is not any clearer because you go to church. Or because of what church you go to. It is simply stereo types that people have. I would imagine the most Birth moms are younger women that are not married and ended up pregnant. Not all, But I imagine most. Now, these women went and had premarital sex, are young and probably going out and partying a lot. How religious do you think the really are? I would say that most of them are not religious at all. They may have been baptized a certain faith but they do not practice and "sin" pretty regularly. Maybe one day they will become religious, but for now I don't think that the thought of religion even crosses their mind. And if they are Christian, well they should know first hand that if your parents are religious doesn't mean that you are going to be dedicated and always practice religion. After all chances are that they are young women probably in there teens, not married and pregnant.

All I am saying is that there are no guarantees. And that I don't believe that all the Birth moms that go to these agencies initially looking for a couple of a specific faith or a couple that is active in their faith. That is just the ideas that are pushed on to them sometimes.

[stella]

There are no guarantees as to who will and who won't uphold certain standards. Religious folk fail at keeping those standards just as non religious people do.

My only point is that religion is important, and shouldn't be cast off totally as a non issue in adoption. While none of us are perfect all of the time, the point is trying. One's religion, and activity in it, are only one tool in the box that can help determine that... Obviously, other things can speak to that as well.

I agree in that I wouldn't look at the 'check-mark' in the Christian box, and assume a couple was perfect... Other things would have to be there for me to make that decision.

Stella