[valevictorian65]

Hi. Never apologize for your feelings.
People and society are changing. it is a fact to keep on trying for what you belive in. Maybe you can adopt for a charity in California. my friend was adopted in California. The birth parent requested she was put into a catholic family. so never give up.
-take care

[maavjiam]

I have to say that everyone's points are valid, however when a world religion begins to discriminate against another world religion it is unfair. Just as it is wrong judge Muslim/Moslem fanatics with the whole of Islam and wrong to be anti-semetic. The Nostra Aetate teaches us to accept all that is "holy and true" within each religion, that everyone goes to the kingdom of heave no mater what their faith is. It is very wrong to say (in general) that the Catholics are going to "hell", when the truth of the matter is as long as there is salvation we are all saved, even pagans, or atheist. Who know what the “creator” of that particular Christian denomination is thinking…where have they been for over 3000 years? …..just because what they say are simple words…it doesn’t mean they don’t persecute…sorry…....the bottom line is that an agency no matter what they believe about Catholics has no right to restrict Catholics from adopting or any other religion. I understand their position and if I were Muslim/Moslem or Jewish or Hindu or any other religion or religious denomination I would have the same position. Now of course as a Catholic you'd want to go with some agency that will accept you and not put religious boundaries on you, but the real point is that there should BE NO BOUNDARIES. To be truly Christian is to love one another as He has loved us and I’m sorry without being totally offensive, people have to wake up and stop segregating and dismissing the faiths of others. The Catholic Church yes has persecuted in its history, however it has CHANGED, APOLOGIZED and ASKED FOR FORGIVENESS….we embrace all and so this should be practiced in all world religions (which most do...). Bottom line is this Christian group is not being Christian.

FYI this is one reason why this forum has struck me so much…. A friend of mine went to a eulogy of two young teenagers who got killed in a car accident. They were dating and one had drunk but as a couple they had “relations”. In this particular Christian denomination any break of the commandment (since they don’t have confession) meant that they would go directly to hell. And so instead of the parents grieving the children’s death they disowned them because if they remained family they would as a whole all go to HELL. Now my friend said this to the parents, “What kind of God do you believe in? It’s surely isn’t a Christian God, because he would not want you to abandon your children simply because they broke a commandment since he forgives….”

So you see…I just can’t accept those kinds of things. It’s unethical and disgusting. Who is any religion to condemn another or to condemn one of their own? We don’t/I don’t/My husband and friends and family don’t. Just to quote Stevie: GIVE ME A BREAK!

What is religious freedom when you are restricting it from others! Isn't the point that the child goes to a loving home and safe home? They should be thinking about the children not their religious qualms.

Thanks for listening and again no offence to anyone. I am very passionate about faith (in general) and respecting others. Like I've said before I would never intentionally disrespect someone nor would I teach my children or my students to hate any one religion just because they don't believe what we believe in.

God bless.

MAAV

[taggrr2]

I guess we're talking about 2 different things here.

The first is, do I think this agency is wrong in doing this? Yes, I don't believe that they are correct in not considering Catholics Christians and are probably missing out on some great parents. They are going to be accountable to their God one way or another.

The second is, do they have a right to do it? To me, the answer is absolutely. Let's not mix "rights" with behaving in a Christian manner. The two are different and the agency has the "right" to qualify whoever they want for aparents regardless of whether or not it is done in a Christian manner. IMO, it's kind of like, I don't like what you're saying but I'll defend to the death you're right to say it.

Also, please keep in mind, this is not a world religion discriminating against another. This is an agency that has set standards for paparents according to the beliefs of those running it and their employees.

You seemed to indicate that because the Catholic Church apologized and asked forgiveness, so should other religions. To me, whether the Church apologized or not should not be the reason to do the same, but because that is what the other religion believes. This is the stronger motivation, IMO. And yes, freedom means to not have government interference in how you practice your religion as you see fit.

Lastly, no one has the right not to be offended nor is everything always fair and again, agencies abound to serve everyone.

[maavjiam]

it's cool. I just voiced my thoughts and why I feel what I do. I don't agree and I guess that's it. I mean to each his/her own. I just didn't think things like this could happen or rather could be aloud to happen. I still don't agree that they can discriminate on whatever 'warped' idea they have that Catholics are going to hell. Anyhow..that sounded rude but for me anything fanatical is warped...but the issue is the child is what's important and I hope for all those who seek to adopt that they find a great agency. I know I have.

Again I always formally apologize even if I do have the right to speak freely, but everyone deserves respect so I try to make sure that anything I say people know that I am not offending anyone. Plus I'm just responding to the last reply but my comments are general comments and NOT an attack on anyone. Like I said I've very passionate about the subject..I guess that's why I've studied for so long and I teach it and practice what I "teach"....

And yes it is about a world religion because Christianity is amongst the largest of the 5 major religions on our Earth. It's about proper Christian value and religious rights. Even if they have the right to practice what they believe, even if I don't agree with it, the bottom line is that they don't have the right to discriminate based on religion. Sorry, but that's the truth.

Well that's all for me. Keep it going. It's great to see how strongly people feel and defend their position. I love to debate...it's just in my nature.....

Have a great night and all the best to all.

Ciao for now.

MAAV

[maavjiam]

allowed not aloud...sorry watching tv and typing not a good idea.....

[taggrr2]

Maav,

Thanks for explaining your reasons for your feelings. I guess the reason this is near and dear to my heart is that I think we throw around the word "right" pretty carelessly, at least in the US., i.e., I have a right to do this or that or that is against my rights or they don't have the right to do that, etc. IMO, when we do that we cheapen the whole understanding of "rights". The real truth is that agencies do have the right to set standards for their paparents; they do it and it's happening in practice.

When you look at what happened at Fallujah a couple of days ago, now there is a real rights issue. Would that we could work up the same horror at situations like that. It seems our outrage is a bit myopic and misdirected at times.

Tag

[maavjiam]

Fallujah was a sad thing, sad for the US and sad for the citizens. It is a shame that things have come to this. I hope that Bush brings home the army soon. I hate to hear about another family losing another son or daughter or any other innocent civilians die.

I guess I was shocked that agencies had the "right" or ability to refuse based on religious affliation.

I respect your point and I thank you for not taking anything I have said personally.

All the best.

MAAV

[lisa in venice]

When we were searching for our third and fourth children we worked with some Christian "Referal" groups. When I called them the first time I stated that we are practicing Episcopalians and our church doesn't make a big deal out of the "born again" experience. We were politely turned away from at least half of them. Aparently Episcopalians aren't Christians either. I do find it ironic that Catholic Charities and Jewish Family services work with families of all religions or none at all and half (at least in my experience) of the Christian organizations would not work with folks of other faiths. Kinda looks bad for them doesn't it.

lisa

[madhatter]

I think you are all being a little hard on Stella. Birthmothers looking at prospective parents do not know anything about these couples and their religious affiliation can be a starting off point for a birthmother who has strong feelings about how she would like her child raised. Nobody here has claimed it is a crystal ball for goodness and/or depth of religious devotion.

[GHawk]

Hi May,
I work in adoption and I, too, am Catholic. I get requests for Catholic couples all of the time. I also am an adoptive parent. I have seen the discrimination among some "Christian" religions who don't believe that Catholics are Christians. In reality, Catholics were the FIRST Christians and have always from the beginnings believed that Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior. I truly believe that it is ignorance on behalf of the others concerning the Catholic religion and that education is needed for them to understand and realize what the Catholic Church is all about. We can only pray that their eyes will be opened one day. If you need further assistance in your adoption process, please let me know, as I would love to help you out. Our services have helped 52 families thus far this year complete successful adoptions. Thanks and may God Bless.
Gloria

[caradopt]

Hi May... My husband and I are on our second adoption, and just this week have been matched with our second child. The first through and agency an the second through Catholic Charities (to be born in November). I think it is unfortunate the prejudice that you have experienced. The road of adoption and infertility is a difficult one that is loaded with emotions such as disappointment, in this case anger and ultimately overwhelming joy. I will pray that you will some day be able to see why this has all happened as you hold your new baby, and know it was truly meant to be that this child is yours. My advice is try to find an agency or organization that accepts your beliefs and who you are. The process is difficult enough and all your energies then can be focused on your ultimate goal of parenting.

Stay faithful that there is a plan for you and pray that God's will be done.

[roomformore]

I would not want to use any agency that did not want me for a client in the first place. I mean if your basic beliefs are different they would probably have some type of predjudice against you and not do as good a job for you. And I have to respectfully disagree with the above post that says Catholics were the first Christians-obviously learned at Chatechism. The first Christians I would think were Jesus' disciples and they were Jews that believed in Jesus as the son of God-hence the name "Christians".

[Dude's Dad]

Originally posted by stella
My only point is that religion is important, and shouldn't be cast off totally as a non issue in adoption.

Religion may be important to some personally, but there is no evidence that religion in any influences the likelihood that one would be a good parent.

The only time when the religion or non-religion of the prospective adoptive parents should ever be a consideration is when the children have already been so heavily indoctrinated into a particular religion and the children need that religion for their own emotional stability. That would only happen when the children are old enough to understand what religion is.

Otherwise religion should be irrelevant given that whether or not one has a religion or not, believes in a deity or not, says noting about whether the prospective parents will be good ones or whether they are good people or not.

While none of us are perfect all of the time, the point is trying. One's religion, and activity in it, are only one tool in the box that can help determine that... Obviously, other things can speak to that as well.

I agree in that I wouldn't look at the 'check-mark' in the Christian box, and assume a couple was perfect... Other things would have to be there for me to make that decision.

Stella

I hope that I am misunderstanding you but your comment suggests that it is by definition good to try to follow a religion. If so then thoroughly reject that suggestion.

There is no objective moral imperative to suggest that religion is good. As a life long atheist, I do not regard religion as good. At best it’s neutral from the point of view of good or bad. Moreover, having a religion and being a good person or being a good parent are utterly uncorrelated. There is nothing to suggest that trying to be religious or to follow a religion is in any way more moral than not.

As to adoptions agencies and whatever religious tests they place upon adoptive parents, if they in no way use public funds then I imagine that they are free to practice religious discrimination, wrong as it is. However if an agency does accept public funding then I suggest that they must be neutral on issues of religion.

[DonnaLynn]

Just a quick history lesson..

Peter means the "Rock"... on which Jesus built His church

This became the First Christian Church - which over time became the Catholic church.. All other Christian churches are off shoots of the Catholic church.

Wont go on and on... will only say

Amen


Thanks for reading

[Arlington1]

Hi,

I grew up in New England by a Catholic father and a non reglious mother. Later I moved to the the "bible belt" and attended an independent Christian Church. It was quite an eye opening experience.

Typically, when you see the term "Christian" used they essentially mean "Born again Christian". Born again Christians typically feel that people who have not accepted Jesus Christ as their personal savior as adults are not "Christians". This includes the majority of mainstream Prostestians as well as Catholics and Jews. They also believe only people who have been born again will enter heaven.

NOW -- DON'T BLAME THE MESSENGER! I DON'T AGREE WITH THESE BELIEFS (I left that church a long time ago)

I only shared these thoughts as a way of explaining what happened. I suspect that most people who attend a mainstream Protestian demonation would have been told the same thing.

Again, I don't condone what happened. I just wanted to help you understand. I truly wish the best for you and your husband.

Arlington 1.

(DTC OCT 04)