[aclee]

Stepping over here for a bith mom perspective. We are working with our social worker on our profile, and discussing what we "want" as in what we are open to in a situation. We've agreed to review drug use on a case by case basis, and are really stuck on what to list for Open Adoption. I would really like at LEAST a semi-open adoption, and would strong consider a fully open adoption, with visits, and a free exchange of information etc. However, where we are open to drug use, I feel that the fully open adoption is on a case by case basis. I do not want to list our open-ness (is that a word) to open adoption, and have a mother that is exposing her child to drugs as an influence on my child. Is that reasonable? I understand that she could eventually clean herself up, and I would be open to contact at that time, but while she is using drugs I would only be willing to do semi-open, with pictures and letters through a thrid party. How exactly can I word that? Should I only state Semi-open, and then offer more if it is a good fit with the birth mother? I told my Social worker Semi-open with Open on a case by case basis. She said typically birth mother will always go for families that list open, even if they think they ONLY want semi-open. I've read some where the birth mom says closed so I don't think there is a stead fast rule, but maybe I'm wrong. I would be willing to list Open IF we weren't considering drug use on a case by case basis....what are others thoughts?

[BrandyHagz]

Personally, I tell expectant mothers considering adoption who want an open adoption to avoid families who will 'consider' open adoption. It's to wishy washy.

If you're not heart and soul behind open adoption (which can be successful with clearly outlined boundaries, regardless of the situation) then you really shouldn't place it in your profile, on the chance that it gets you more exposure.

[taramayrn]

I agree with Brandy - if you want a semi open adoption then say so. Saying you will consider an open adoption isn't clear enough and rather wishy-washy as Brandy has said.

[aclee]

is my husband and I's preference. As I said, we want AT LEAST a semi-open adoption. Maybe it would be a smarter idea to not consider drug exposed infants so we could indicate that? I just don't know what to do. I refuse to believe that a mother the exposes a baby to drugs inuteruo will also be in the child's best interest in an open adoption. Maybe this is a moot point? Maybe mothers that are using drugs don't typically even want a fully open adoption? I don't know...My husband and I have talked this to death, and it's a really hard choice. We do want an open adoption. I was a little surprise with him, but he's done a lot of research and he really supports us entering into an open adoption. How can we do that, but protect our child from a drug user too? If one of my own relatives was using drugs I wouldn't allow my child around them either!

[taramayrn]

Could you place a "clause" on the "we want an open adoption" statement that says if the birthparent is participating in illegal, dangerous, drugs, etc the adoption will be only semi open?

I don't know, what does your agency say about this?

[BrandyHagz]

As I was saying - setting boundaries regarding your OA is the best way to go...if you really want an OA - then working towards that goal is likely the best.

I also don't agree with your statement "I refuse to believe that a mother the exposes a baby to drugs inuteruo will also be in the child's best interest in an open adoption." - if my daughters parents had this mentality (I drank, I didn't do drugs) then we wouldn't have had this wonderful open adoption...

...but before you judge me for drinking while pregnant - you should know I didn't know I was pregnant when I drank and stopped the minute I found out I was...that doesn't make the 'exposure' any less...and it doesn’t make the impact of my drinking any less concerning…

It’s not black and white – if you want an open adoption, state as much – then set boundaries. It is absolutely possible to state that you want an Open Adoption with clearly defined boundaries.

[aclee]

LOL...they want us to say what will get us placed the fastest. We want a fast placement too. But the right placement. They say that since we want open adoption, we should say so. PERIOD. Maybe I am too stuck on the what ifs. I want to make an adoption agreement that we'll stick with. I have no idea if they are enforceable in my state, or the state we'll adopt in (wherever that maybe) or not. I don't really care. Bottom line is that **I** want an agreement that works. If I help create it and sign it, I want it to work. I know that's simplistic, but I think when you sign something you should do it. I just don't want to tell an expectant mother that we're open to visits and letters and pictures and do a full exchange of information etc while she is expecting, and then have the baby test positive for cocaine on delivery. We would still want that baby, and we would end up back peddling, and maybe fear that the birth mother would have too much of our information. I guess I just feel like it's easier to add than take away...IF IF IF, the mother is a drug user. If she's not then I have no problem being completely open right from the start. I'd love to talk on the phone with her and maybe meet her before the birth, all that. I'm just worried we'll do that, and then find out she's using drugs or lying about something. Is the paranoia obvious yet? I want to do this right, and have a great open adoption...I do believe they are really the best thing for a child. Does that mean I should turn away an infant whose mother is already not making the best choices for them? My head spins...if you guys understand this, tell me what you think

[aclee]

Originally Posted by BrandyHagz

As I was saying - setting boundaries regarding your OA is the best way to go...if you really want an OA - then working towards that goal is likely the best.

I also don't agree with your statement "I refuse to believe that a mother the exposes a baby to drugs inuteruo will also be in the child's best interest in an open adoption." - if my daughters parents had this mentality (I drank, I didn't do drugs) then we wouldn't have had this wonderful open adoption...

...but before you judge me for drinking while pregnant - you should know I didn't know I was pregnant when I drank and stopped the minute I found out I was...that doesn't make the 'exposure' any less...and it doesn’t make the impact of my drinking any less concerning…

It’s not black and white – if you want an open adoption, state as much – then set boundaries. It is absolutely possible to state that you want an Open Adoption with clearly defined boundaries.

No Judgement. Any parent that does ANYTHING, drugs, alcohol, aerobics, whatever BEFORE they know they are pregnant is not the same as a mother that tests positive at birth. A mother that tests positive at birth is an addict. I do not think an addict is a postive addition to a child's life, and woud be concerned about them having our contact information, address, etc.

My Aunt got smashingly drunk everytime she was pregnant before she knew. She's a great lady and a great mother. I don't expect anyone to walk around making choices "in case" they are pregnant. Most women that are making an adotion plan as women that are not trying to get pregnant. They might even be further into their pregnancy when they realize they are. If they stop the behavior when they find out, they are a responsible adult, at least enough so that I would let them into our lives. Yes, it would still effect our choice on whether to accept a match, but it wouldn't effect whether or not we wanted an open adoption with that person. I think that person has indicated that they know there are times when they need to be sober, etc. I would consider that person either a recoving addict (someone I would do an open adoption with but maybe keep an eye on during visits) or a recreational user...I guess illegal is illegal and drugs are drugs, but this person still indicates that they have self control and moral values etc etc.

[BrandyHagz]

Just wondering - are you open to OA if the mother and baby tests positive at delivery, but then she later cleans herself up?

That's the problem with making a life long decision based on one moment in time. Open Adoption needs to have flexibility – room to grow – room to slow down – room to change.

It is perfectly acceptable to say that you want to have an open adoption and that you should all discuss what that means for all of you.

When C and S discussed OA with me we just didn’t know what we wanted – but we knew we wanted an OA – so we just said, “we’ll see how it goes’ and for the most part, that’s worked…

You should advocate for what you want…but don’t judge a person by one moment in time…things change…make room for that.

[aclee]

Originally Posted by BrandyHagz

Just wondering - are you open to OA if the mother and baby tests positive at delivery, but then she later cleans herself up?

That's the problem with making a life long decision based on one moment in time. Open Adoption needs to have flexibility – room to grow – room to slow down – room to change.

It is perfectly acceptable to say that you want to have an open adoption and that you should all discuss what that means for all of you.

When C and S discussed OA with me we just didn’t know what we wanted – but we knew we wanted an OA – so we just said, “we’ll see how it goes’ and for the most part, that’s worked…

You should advocate for what you want…but don’t judge a person by one moment in time…things change…make room for that.

Yup-
I have an uncle that is a recovering alcoholic. 23 years now. He's my favorite uncle, a great dad to his own adopted son, and a wonderful grampa to his son's two little girls. Everyone can change. I did already say I would open an other wise "semi-open" adoption if the mother cleaned up in another post, but I don't mind stressing that here. I actually would do a VERY semi-open adoption with a mother like this (very frequently letters pictures, and maybe e-mails, and phone calls) in hopes she would clean up if she knew that would get her visits. I feel like my hearts in the right place, it's just stuck between what I feel is best, and protection of my family....

[BrandyHagz]

In the end - you should state what you want - nothing more and nothing less. The right match is out there and you shouldn't allow your agency to push you to put something you don't want to put.

I have a copy of the original "Dear Birthmom Letter" and the "Agency Approved Dear Birthmom Letter" that my daughters parents had...some how, by accident, the original one made its way to me when I was considering them...(things were done differently 12 years ago) - and I liked what I read.

A couple of years ago - we got to talking about the DBML and she was shocked that I had read the original - since the agency gave her so much grief about it.

I read the Agency Approved one - and well...I hated it. It was awful. It didn't sound anything like them - it was very 'poofy' for lack of a better word.

It said what they thought I wanted to hear (and what I see agencies so often tell their clients).

They lived in a rich part of town.
They had a big house.
They drove new cars.
They traveled to lands far and wide.
They had lots of toys.
She would be a SAHM.
They were both successful career people.
They attended church regularly.
blah blah blah.

Oddly, they were NOT rich, they did live in a 'rich' town - in a normal 3 bdrm ranch, much like the one I'd lived in, their cars were new-to-them - and one of them was a Ford Escort (not exactly the BMW the agency wanted them to project). They were normal - she was going to be a SAHM for a year, then go back to work...I knew all this after meeting them (and after reading the Original DBML).

The bottom line - this isn't a play - be yourself, state what you want right up front...be honest with yourself and everyone reading...if you're agency is giving you a lot of crap over that...then maybe they aren't the right agency.

A woman should be able to chose you based on facts about your life and facts about what you want...be clear, open and honest - anything short of that is wrong, in my opinion.