[SchmennaLeigh]

I'm tackling the chapter on birth parent regret from Lifegivers on Monday and Tuesday of next week. In conjunction with that, on both days, I'm discussing views of birth parent regret outside of what the book is saying.

So, I need input, of course. If you feel so inclined, please give me some words on the matter.

1. BEFORE you read the chapter, tell me your thoughts on birth parent regret. Is it overtly negative, all positive, avoidable, unavoidable, a hindrance, a help, something to be feared, something to be celebrated... or what? Give me your opinions.

2. If you have a specific example in which your regret has either been validated or dismissed, pelase discuss that event and how it made you feel.

3. Discuss your own place with regret, where you are currently.

4. How does your child's adoptive family respond to your regret?

5. Your opinions on why regret, even with the dictionary definitions that explain that it's not SUPER scary, scares the pants off of others.

6. How you personally deal with your regret.

And/or anything you might want to discuss on the topic. (Of note: you don't have to answer ANY or ALL of those questions. I was throwing stuff out as I flipped through the pages.)

Also, after you read the chapter, has your opinion on birth parent regret changed at all? I'd really like to hear about some of that...

I've got stuff to say. I might quote myself from a post from 2006 later. Right now, I've got stuff to doooooo!

[thanksgivingmom]

1. BEFORE you read the chapter, tell me your thoughts on birth parent regret. Is it overtly negative, all positive, avoidable, unavoidable, a hindrance, a help, something to be feared, something to be celebrated... or what? Give me your opinions. I think that birth parent regret is unavoidable (at least for me). More than that I think it's complicated! And it's unwanted for me...I don't WANT to regret the choices I made. I want to be sure and strong in them...but I can't deny that sometimes there are flashes of "what have I done??" But even when it's not the "big" regret, there are hundreds of "small" regrets, that can seem huge...the I regret not naming her, the I regret not giving her something that would be special between us, those kinds of regret. (More on this in later questions you pose I think)

2. If you have a specific example in which your regret has either been validated or dismissed, please discuss that event and how it made you feel.I think my regrets are validated by some, like the bmothers I know here, and are "validated" by people like the SW. She says reassuring things, and tells me that what I feel makes sense, but it feels like she's just going through the motions...

3. Discuss your own place with regret, where you are currently.I regret not being strong enough with regards to my needs early on. I regret not asserting myself with the SW's and at the hospital. I worry that because in those first days I was so weak, physically, emotionally, that I set myself up as a doormat...and that it's because of my weak actions that I don't have the contact I really want, because I was too afraid to say what I really wanted and instead just agreed to go along with what was happening around me. These regrets haunt me...while the "smaller" regrets hit me at random times; driving in the car, at work, at the movies...

4. How does your child's birth family respond to your regret?My letters go unanswered. My attempts to express feelings are basically ignored.

5. Your opinions on why regret, even with the dictionary definitions that explain that it's not SUPER scary, scares the pants off of others.I think it's harder to ignore the bparent experience when there are feelings like regret. In general, people have become so proud, too proud to admit that they regret things. I think it's an emotion that people aren't very comfortable with in general. My experience with those who express regret is that they receive in return uncomfortable silence or the "this is what YOU signed up for" response. Neither are particularly supportive or helpful...

6. How you personally deal with your regret.I try my darndest to accept that I can't change things. I don't really deal with it (I should try harder, I know!) I STILL don't assert myself with the SW. I want to, I talk about it, I stratagize about it, and when it comes down to it and I pick up that phone...I can't tell her what I need. I ask in roundabout ways and indirectly....Every time I get off the phone I regret not being stronger.

And/or anything you might want to discuss on the topic. (Of note: you don't have to answer ANY or ALL of those questions. I was throwing stuff out as I flipped through the pages.)I think I wrote I small novel so I'll leave it at this for now.

[BrandyHagz]

Of course, these are my personal opinions and observations, based on my years of 'experience' and of course, my personal situation.

1. I think there is some level of regret for every first parent. I think that regret comes in many forms and fashions - from regretting having to make the decision to place in the first place, right down to regretting the decision itself and surrendering all of ones parenting and responsibility roles. So, I think regret exists on some level for everyone.

2. I regret having had to make the decision I made, however, even now, I know that the decision I made was really what was best for everyone involved. I try very hard not to get caught up in the 'what could have beens" and it's hard...not to. More recently, I've actually regretted M's placement more and more acutely, based simply on the facts that surround her current home life. This isn't a regret I've always had and it's very new to me. I find that when I express this regret I get a lot of 'dismissal' - it seems adoptive parents are often held to a different standard. Abuse, which is what is going on, is often 'excused' when it involves an adoptive parent - simply because of the differences between adoptive and biological parenting (This has been my personal experiences based on the responses I've had from people here on the forums as well as in real life...I have had many comments from people telling me that I am being to critical...of course, these same commenters are the ones who are quick to judge first parents who make these same “mistakes”...but that’s neither here nor there ).

3. I'm still in the 'coming to terms with the fact that I've been very very happy for all these years while my daughter has been abused, neglected, ignored right in front of my face' stage. I am still trying to get past the guilt, frustration, irritation, anger with myself over how my decision (one, if you'll remember, I said was one I stand behind making) has greatly impacted her as a child and will continue to impact her as an adult, as she grows up. I worry about how she will feel about me, knowing that I saw...but not realizing how truly powerless I am to step in (and believe it or not, I am actually totally powerless...I wont go into details). I feel a lot of guilt over everything that's happened - it's really been very difficult for me to deal with...
4. They don't. In our relationship, I have become the 'bigger person' - the 'leader' of the clan...I've not shared a lot of my feelings (although I have shared some) because of the 'place' where they are. It's not a healthy relationship - not now and it may not have ever been. I have become the crutch on which to lean on...and I'm having a hard enough time right now just staying in place...because I don't want to be their 'support system' (something I usually see adoptive parents post in regards to first parents...) - it's not my responsibility to make sure they are 'well' - but it is my responsibility to make sure that M is 'taken care of' and right now...that's not happening -so I stay...crutch...support system...drama...frustration...gah

5. I really don't have a comment - those who know me and know adoption understand and get it. Those who know me and don't have a clue about adoption - well, they see me as bitter and angry about the adoption and don't understand why I care...or why it matters for that matter. I have been asked why I even have an opinion on this, as it’s none of my business what is going on in their personal life. I wonder who they think is going to take care of the kid? In my opinion, that very much is my business...especially if they are dropping the ball. Someone has to step up and be a parental role…they aren’t doing it and aren’t resistant to my doing it (even going as far as asking for and appreciating my interaction…they aren’t naïve enough to think they are meeting her needs…they know the ball is being dropped…which makes this even more difficult, because nothing much is being done to rectify things).

6. I've been seeing a therapist since about May. She's really great and very supportive. I've also been talking to my husband and friends a lot - all of which are very supportive and kind (you included Jenna ) It's been difficult, because there aren't a lot of situations out there like mine. In part, I feel I can relate to some adoptive parents in their feelings surrounding the totally inappropriate behavior of their child’s first family members - but, every time I've ever commented as much, I am dismissed...

I've never read the book in question - I think I might like to, but I don’t know if that's good for me right now or not. I am still trying to deal with a lot of my emotions.

Would you suggest the book to someone who is going through a crisis like mine (since you know more than what I've posted here)?

[lahdh4]

marking for when I have some time to answer.

[taramayrn]

Jenna -

Great topic, one that I have a hard time discussing, but I will be back to answer your questions.

[lahdh4]

1. BEFORE you read the chapter, tell me your thoughts on birth parent regret. Is it overtly negative, all positive, avoidable, unavoidable, a hindrance, a help, something to be feared, something to be celebrated... or what? Give me your opinions.
I think in many ways it is unavoidable. You change your life and that of your childs only to look back on it a few years later and realize you could have been a parent and good one at that.

2. If you have a specific example in which your regret has either been validated or dismissed, pelase discuss that event and how it made you feel.
I have say that my therapist has been great at validating my regret. Saying that it is a good thing to realize that if my life had been different at that time and not now I wouldn't be dealing with issues that I had long since hidden.

3. Discuss your own place with regret, where you are currently.
Not really sure right now.

4. How does your child's adoptive family respond to your regret?
I don't even think they know where I am at emotionally.

5. Your opinions on why regret, even with the dictionary definitions that explain that it's not SUPER scary, scares the pants off of others.
To me, I think that there are some people who are unable to deal with it. I figure that if they hide their heads it isn't real and it isn't happening.

6. How you personally deal with your regret.
I continue to see my therapist. I do some what if's. I try to figure out where I would be if I didn't walk this path vs where she is by me taking this path.

[MommaKatja]

• BEFORE you read the chapter, tell me your thoughts on birth parent regret. Is it overtly negative, all positive, avoidable, unavoidable, a hindrance, a help, something to be feared, something to be celebrated... or what? Give me your opinions.

Birthparent regret is tricky, it’s unavoidable and unmentionable. Some days it’s as simple as a “what if” moment while others it’s heart wrenching “I want my baby what have I done”. If voiced however it can get dicey. Voicing regret opens the door for others to criticize. I’ve heard it all that my regret means I wish my son hadn’t been born (ABSOLUTELY NOT THE CASE) that my regret makes me selfish (possibly true) that I should have no regrets…

2. If you have a specific example in which your regret has either been validated or dismissed, pelase discuss that event and how it made you feel.

Since I mentioned the not so nice in my answer to number 1 I’ll share a nice story from last week. I have a tendency to not share my regret (hmmm wonder why) but for some reason decided to while driving with a co-worker/friend. I mentioned that I was planning on starting therapy and she said “It must be hard waking up wondering what it would be like if..” I’ve only known her for a year and she gave me the validation NO ONE else has these past 6 years. Not a single person in my life has ever been able to say “what you’re going through is tough.” Until last week

3. Discuss your own place with regret, where you are currently.

Depends on the day, or the hour, or the moment. I’m torn between my regret and my guilt for feeling regret.

4. How does your child's adoptive family respond to your regret?

I’m sure on some level they know it’s there but it’s unspoken

5. Your opinions on why regret, even with the dictionary definitions that explain that it's not SUPER scary, scares the pants off of others.

I think people view it as: If I do a great job and b mom sees me doing a great job she’ll have no regrets because I’m doing a great job. And thus if b mom has regrets it MUST mean a mom is not doing a great job. When in actuality our regret is not necessarily tied to how good a job the a parents do. It’s simply about not being there with our child everyday regardless of how well that child is being raised.

6. How you personally deal with your regret.



At this point I don’t so much. I’m going to start counseling…just as soon as I can afford it.

[krystabelle]

I'm only going to answer number four.

Firstly, I don't regret the adoption. I've spent a lot of time thinking over things and I've learned to accept that things went the way they did, and you know what? all told it wasn't bad! It was actually really sweet... and still is.

However, I think Finleigh's parents think I may regret the adoption. When I hold her during visits I'll look up and one of them will be looking at Finleigh and I and have this sad face. It's my fault I haven't communicated to them that I'm okay, that I don't regret this, that I love them very much, and am so proud of them as a couple and as parents.

I think their way of dealing with what they think is my regret and possibly their subsequent guilt is allowing me to visit and reminding me every time we communicate through email or on the phone that I'm welcome to come over and see her.

That bothers me because I would like for the time together to be brought on because they want to have me in their lives, not because they want to "help" me through this.

[Jannyroo]

Originally Posted by SchmennaLeigh

I'm tackling the chapter on birth parent regret from Lifegivers on Monday and Tuesday of next week. In conjunction with that, on both days, I'm discussing views of birth parent regret outside of what the book is saying. So, I need input, of course. If you feel so inclined, please give me some words on the matter.

1. BEFORE you read the chapter, tell me your thoughts on birth parent regret. Is it overtly negative, all positive, avoidable, unavoidable, a hindrance, a help, something to be feared, something to be celebrated... or what? Give me your opinions.

Here are some of my thoughts, as some are still buried. Regret. I regret most of my life and I regret having a son I couldn't raise because emotionally I wasn't strong enough, because of the poor upbringing I had as a child with an imploding family life. I regret that adoption brought my son so much emotional pain, albeit a great life otherwise.

Reunion has helped us to both work towards a mother/son relationship. I think his finding me validated me as a worthwhile person and eased that regret by the love he wants to show me now, albeit hindered by protective mechanisms.

Originally Posted by SchmennaLeigh

2. If you have a specific example in which your regret has either been validated or dismissed, please discuss that event and how it made you feel.

In the past, I tried talking about my relinquishment/ my son but the person in that religion asked me why I felt the need to confess?!! That made me clam up and I didn't come out for quite a while. Upon reunion, about 20 years later, she doesn't even remember me mentioning I had a son!!! by that time, I was comfortable with myself and it didn't impact on me the same as her first reaction.

My mother would always respond to my regret by saying "you did the right thing" so I don't remember talking to her about it after she said it time and again.

2006/2007 My adoption counsellor (a bmother herself) has validated my regret and has not been dismissive at all. Her empathy and compassion has helped me to be a great mother in reunion with my son. We've been in tears together of pain and joy with the ups and downs of reunion

Originally Posted by SchmennaLeigh

3. Discuss your own place with regret, where you are currently.

My regret has subsided enormously by the tremendous "connection" I now have with my son. Verrier has helped me beyond measure to understand adoption issues and my counsellor has said that she is in awe at the effort I have put into understanding and responding to my son's needs and issues. She is not surprised that our reunion, albeit extremely difficult, has gone onto be successful. The current relationship I have with my son has eased considerably any regret I've had, as I concentrate on what we have now, rather than what we lost. We've worked through our pain of lost years and validated each other's feelings.

The regret of those lost childhood years with my son depth charges from time to time. I go with the flow, but an enormous feeling of sadness overtakes me when it comes. Its like being dipped into a pool you can't get out of and I have to wait for it to subside.

Originally Posted by SchmennaLeigh

4. How does your child's adoptive family respond to your regret?

It was a closed adoption. My son said that for the first few years his mother felt guilty at having him at my loss. She helped him choose the photos of his adoptive family that I asked for a couple of months ago. He tells me that she asks if he's heard from me. There are little snippets in the background that helps me to feel that she cares and that helps me with any regrets I have in losing him, and helps me to feel love for them.

Originally Posted by SchmennaLeigh

5. Your opinions on why regret, (even with the dictionary definitions that explain that it's not SUPER scary), scares the pants off of others.

Here in the UK, people are never comfortable about talking about feelings. They are not comfortable with anything outside their realm of experience either. Adoption is outside most peoples experience. If you bring up regret, I feel they feel they have to placate you rather than acknowledge your pain. Rather like a man thing, they can fix a tv, end of problem, but feelings? hey, regret? lets change channels. People generally want to keep the conversation light and to take away your inner pain, so they say things like "you did the right thing" rather than ask "why do you feel like that, would you like to explain to me...." although some of my closest friends are really clued up and ask me and tell me they learn from me and perk up to watch anything on the subject if they see or hear anything. My friends I now have, have been wonderful.

Originally Posted by SchmennaLeigh

6. How you personally deal with your regret.

I do things that help me work through the bereavement of losing my son to 28 years without me. In the past, when I had my first adoption counselling session, when I got off the train, I bought some flowers and kissed them and cried over them, as if I had just lost someone to death. My son would have been 16 years old then, and it was the first time I'd attempted to deal with my buried feelings. Now he is 29 and I am in reunion, I look at his childhood photo album that I put together and I have cried or hold them close to my chest as if holding him. I hold a pillow and imagine holding him again (as he is not ready for a 2nd F2F). I sometimes have to put his framed pictures away wrapped up in cloth until I am ready to see them again (the last time took 3 weeks). as time progresses, I find I do too, and they stay out longer. I imagine or picture him in the kitchen cooking for me or us sitting on the settee and watching a movie together. These are all things we haven't achieved yet, but the thought of future things helps the regret to disappear. The fact that he searched, found me and is working through painful emotions to keep me in his life, the emails, the phone calls, the consistency that is starting to come into our relationship, the intimacy of thoughts and understanding, are all helping regret to ease away and be an occasional companion.

Originally Posted by SchmennaLeigh

Also, after you read the chapter, has your opinion on birth parent regret changed at all? I'd really like to hear about some of that...

How do I get hold of the chapter? I'm sorry I don't know what book you are talking about or where I would get it from other than buying it, is it on a website or something?

[SchmennaLeigh]

To answer my own questions, as I'm working on writing this out right now (today for me, tomorrow for all).




2. If you have a specific example in which your regret has either been validated or dismissed, pelase discuss that event and how it made you feel.

I can't, right now, think of specific examples. I have been told, however, time and time again, that I chose the adoption so I have no right to regret it. That I "made a loving choice," so regretting it is hateful, not loving. That I "gave someone a gift" so to regret it is to be unfair to them as a family. The list goes on. No one wants to accept regret. And that's fine. It's not their emotion to deal with unless I project it onto them. I think I've done a fine job at keeping my regret with me and not placing it on anyone's shoulders.

3. Discuss your own place with regret, where you are currently.

It's been a process. Quite frankly, at four months out, I didn't have any regret either. Oh, I was still sipping the adoption kool-aid, man! I was "happy" and thought that this was going to be the best thing I had ever done in/with my life. I was sure of myself. Then her first birthday came. And things crumbled a bit. Then we started to have actual issues in our relationship. Not problems: just the issues that arise with any relationship; ones that need open, honest communication and can test the patience and trust of those involved. I kind of failed my own first test but, as I said, with that open communication, things are still fine. THEN, then, when my Husband and I added a child into our own immediate family, well, things just began to snowball. All through the process, as I further researched the unethical things that happened in/with my agency, the anger also began to build. No, at four months, I was peachy. Almost four years out and yes, there's some regret in there. Thankfully, I haven't let it make me bitter or angry. Okay, I'm angry at the agency. But still. I've learned appropriate uses for regret, how to talk about it without scaring those around me and how to appropriately deal with it in certain situations.

4. How does your child's adoptive family respond to your regret?

J&D know that they are not the source of my regret. They are actually a source of my hope because, all things considered that were working against us at the time, I found a great family for my daughter. She is loved, she is well-cared for and she has a GREAT Mom and Dad. I do not regret my choice of them in this situation at all. In fact, I know I'm lucky to have found them because anyone else could have screwed me over royally.

5. Your opinions on why regret, even with the dictionary definitions that explain that it's not SUPER scary, scares the pants off of others.

I think there's a HUGE misunderstanding about what regret entials. Others see someone's regret as a reflection of their participation in something or, as an adoptive family, on their family unit. However, if you read the book (read it) you understand that REGRET is tied to the PERSONAL INVOLVEMENT IN THE DECISION. Whereas RESENTMENT is how someone else screwed you over in the process. So, if your child's birth parent says that they are resentful towards you, then you can be scared. If they say that they regret some things, be thankful.


6. How you personally deal with your regret.

Writing, reading, talking with others and, ya know, therapy. I'm not to proud to say that I need some help to work through this stuff!

I'll be writing about my own personal journey with regret on the blog this afternoon.

[SchmennaLeigh]

Originally Posted by Jannyroo

How do I get hold of the chapter? I'm sorry I don't know what book you are talking about or where I would get it from other than buying it, is it on a website or something?

I've been doing a chapter by chapter review of Lifegivers: Framing the Birthparent Experience in Open Adoption by James L. Gritter on the birth/first parent blog since last Monday. We're plugging right alogn through the book. (There's a link to buy the book at Amazon on the post pages.) We've been discussing it in this thread as well.

[SchmennaLeigh]

Originally Posted by BrandyHagz

I've never read the book in question - I think I might like to, but I don’t know if that's good for me right now or not. I am still trying to deal with a lot of my emotions.

Would you suggest the book to someone who is going through a crisis like mine (since you know more than what I've posted here)?

Brandy; I missed this question and just saw it this morning. To be honest, I think every birth parent should read the book. Every. That said, right now? Do I think you should read it? Uhm, possibly not. The assumption of the book, of course, is that the adoptive parents are doing a bang-up job at raising the child. It doesn't speak to abusive or neglectful situations in the adoptive home. (There should be a book on this for first parents in open adoption, no? Write it please.) I think it might make you a bit more frustrated at this time.

That said, have your therapist read it and then give you an opinion on whether or not it is timely and appropriate, given the current situations. *hugs* I'm no therapist, I just have a good one! heh

[taramayrn]

Jenna - I'm sorry I never came back to respond to your questions. I just don't have the emotional strength to do it right now, struggling with a few things. I'm sorry.

[SchmennaLeigh]

Pfft, don't apologize. We all have difficult times in our journeys. Trust me, I know.

[juliebot]

I hope it is ok for me to participate, since I am an amom. I've discussed this subject with our son's bmom many times. It's kind of a sore subject for her, for a different reason. She is an adoptee as well and her aparents and bmom are in an open adoption. Apparently her bmom has major regret over placing her for adoption. When our son's bmom was 12 years old, her bmom told her she regretted placing her for adoption. She told her that she wished she had kept her and that she wishes she was a part of the bmom's family instead. The bmom said she thinks her daughter belongs with them instead of the aparents.

Well, our son's bmom said that really messed her up. Prior to that particular visit with her bmom, she feels she had no major adoption related issues. After that visit, she felt confused, like she was living in the wrong family and didn't know where she belonged. She believes it led to a major identity crisis, where she withdrew from the aparents, her grades slid and she then found herself pregnant with our now son.

She has since had a lot of counseling. She chose an adoption plan for her baby (choosing us as the aparents) and we have a very open adoption. She and I have become very close friends.

She has since (many times) told me that she will never, ever tell our son that she regrets placing him for adoption because she says she never wants to hurt him the way she was hurt by her bmom. I've just tried to support and listen to her as she has shared her hurt. She knows her bmom never intended to hurt her and was only expressing her regret but it is still pretty painful for her. She is adamate about never expressing regret to our son and she claims to have no regrets.

One of the questions asks how the child's aparent responded to hearing of the bmom's regret. Do any of the birthmoms who have regret plan to share their regret with their child?

mom to 3 (one bio, one through domestic adoption, one through international adoption)
www.journeytofamily.com