[niandca]

PS I don't believe bgma is doing it on purpose. Having met her before, I think she just has "tunnel vision" sometimes.

[crick]

I’m not in an open adoption but did want to comment on the gift/exclusion of sibling factor. I recognize that every family must do what works for them and it’s different for everyone, so I’m not “imposing” my thoughts on the matter, just offering a different perspective is all.

All 4 of my children have different godmothers. 2 are local and 2 are out of state. They each have a relationship with each other that is unique to them and separate from the others. 1 child might get mail every month or even a visit every month with their godmother and another child might not. 1 child might get 3 gifts for a birthday and the other might only get 1. Christmas gifts are not expected for everyone although 1 godmother does send a box of candy to be shared or some other gift. Not all of them do that though and I don’t expect them to. Are there hurt feelings at times due to the differences between the relationships? Sure, and it’s hard sometimes to explain as well as deal with the hurt feelings. However, I believe that not everything can be the same for all the kids. They are all different, have different relationships and I don’t feel I can impose any rules on their godmothers pertaining to gifts, visits etc. to include ALL of the kids. To do that would cause even more conflict in my opinion. I feel it’s necessary that my children learn that not everything is equal. And that none of this has anything to do with them or that they are somehow less important because they aren’t getting the same treatment. As long as the treatment from all the persons involved is courteous, I feel it is important to cherish and build on the individual relationships. **NOTE** I realize that a birth mom and a godmother are two totally different relationships and I’m not comparing the two at all, just offering a similar scenario as something that can create conflict between siblings or in the family.

A situation that I have right now is that 1 child would love to have a picture of their birth mom and another child absolutely would freak if that were to happen. (They have the same birth mom) As their parent, I have to find that balance between what’s right for each child first and then the balance of the group. Do I say, “No, child 1 cannot have a picture b/c it would upset a sibling?” and therefore hurt the child by denying something important to them? Do I say, “Child 2 is going to have to learn to separate their own feelings on the situation and basically learn to work through their emotions regarding the picture”? It’s not an easy balance to maintain, to be sure. For me though, the child who wants the picture shall have one if I can make it possible. Am I naïve to think that my other child will not be angry or hurt? No, not at all. And I will support my child the best way I can. I will likely put the picture in my child’s bedroom so as not to make the child who doesn’t want to see it feel like it’s being forced upon him. Is it still a fair balance? Likely not, but it’s the best I can do with the situation and help each child in the different ways that they need.

There are many factors when siblings are involved but I can’t imagine saying to my child “you cannot have a gift from your birth mom because it will upset your brother.” Or saying to the birth mom “Please don’t send letters right now because it isn’t fair to xx’s brother as his birth mother doesn’t ever send letters.” That takes away from the relationship that is committed between 2 people. I can’t imagine imposing an “equality rule” on 1 person who is likely having a difficult enough time maintaining a relationship with their birth child and parents to add even more rules in order to include children not their own. Why would anyone expect a birth relative to include everyone in the family regarding visits, letters, gifts and the like? I understand that one child’s joy or “better” relationship with their birth family will likely hurt their sibling who does not have the same. However, in reality…it’s NOT the same. I don’t think a birth relative should be forced to have a relationship or buy gifts for everyone in the family when their only connection is through 1 child. To me it’s a separate relationship all in it’s own and ultimately has to be treated as the unique relationship that it is. Someone is always going to be hurt at times, but why hurt everyone in order to “save” another person’s hurt? It’s almost like “2 wrongs do not make a right”. In a perfect world, every relationship would work as intended…but it doesn’t, regardless of the type of relationship. And I’m not saying a person needs to go out of their way to ignore the siblings either. If there is a visit then by all means a person should be expected to say hello, chat and be courteous to the entire family. And sure, I can see a birth mom writing a letter to their child saying “Say “hi” to your brother and hope he’s playing hard at soccer!” There should be a general acknowledgement of the entire family and respect for that unit, but don’t think one can expect someone to be completely equal in the affections and relationships with everyone in the family. Even in an open adoption, I think it’s unrealistic, if not unfair to expect a single person to maintain a relationship with everyone. A birth mom does not “owe” a relationship with the siblings, even in an open adoption. She likely did not sign an agreement that stated “if other children are added to the family, birth mom will include those children in her relationship”. I mean, isn’t the focus ultimately to be between her and the child she placed? Then of course, with the parents of thc child? Or even to extended birth family, like a grandmother…she likely did not sign any agreement at all or was even asked for input or had any expectations spelled out at all. Is it really fair to say down the road, “well, all the children are to be treated as honorary grandchildren?”

As a parent, I think one of the hardest things to do is see our child hurt and we want to make everything better. The reality of it is though no matter how hard we try, our children are going to get hurt at times. For me, I’ll do my best to prevent that hurt but I also need to do my best to teach my child how to handle that and get through it.

[SchmennaLeigh]

Okay, couple of things from my personal experience which isn't, obviously, the be all and end all of how it should be. It's just our experience.

First, this issue is directed a bit towards Leigh because she brought forth some concerns that I hope to calm.

As you know, D had a baby just sixteen days before Nicholas was born. They approached me, after making the decision to go forward with IVF, and told me that they were going to try to have a baby. At first, I felt a little betrayed and a lot worried. The betrayal came from the fact that we have such a close friendship and I felt that the fact that she hadn't told me that they were considering it was kind of like hiding the truth from me, a good friend. However, once I calmed down I realized that was kind of silly of me since the decision to have a child SHOULD be discussed and decided between the two of them (or any set of parents) before it is discussed with others. I was just reacting on emotion. My worry came from my desire for Munchkin to never wonder or worry about her place in THEIR family since she will most likely worry and wonder about her place in OUR family. Again, after discussing things with some adoptive parents, some birth parents and some parents who had been through various divorces with children and step-children, I realized this was also just an emotional reaction worry. They have never done anything to prove that they would treat Munchkin any differently. She is just as much their child as JD is. But, if your child's birthmom DOES react emotionally at first, some of what I just talked about MAY be what she is feeling. Try talking about these kinds of things up front when you go to adopt #2. We didn't know to discuss some of these things since we were just flying by the seat of our pants. You know?

In regards to the discussions on whether or not children get gifts from X-parent, etc, my advice would be to ask the adoptive parents what they want. Some parents are not going to care as much. Some are going to have a steadfast rule. This varies from family to family. A friend of mine, divorced with a child from the previous marriage and a child from this marriage, keeps a bunch of gifts wrapped (coloring books, crayons) in the closet so that when someone from one family shows up with a gift for the one child and not another, she simply goes to the closet and gets the age appropriate gift for the other child. It works for them. Personally, if I'm bringing a gift for Munchkin, I have something small now for Joey. I've sent birthday cards to the three older boys, but I honestly don't get them GIFTS, per say. I have never been told that I need to as well. (19, 17 and 14.)

So, instead of saying, "no, no, no, that's the wrong way to do it," I would encourage each family unit to decide what's going to work for them.

[SchmennaLeigh]

Crick, Thank you for that. I had also forgotten that my Dad, a godfather for a friend's son, does not buy a gift for his godson's older brother on EVERY occasion.

I didn't have a godmother/father. However, Nick's godparents will NOT be expected to buy gifts for any children we may (or may not!) have in the future. I'm not all for requiring gift giving at all. It's how we (both Josh and myself) were raised. We're not too shabby. (On a good day. )

[Leigh131313]

I find it interesting that most of the posts are regarding gifts. I hadn't really thought about that. My concern is more about during our visits and such. I'm more worried about inclusion (from both bfamilies) of the other child.

In our situation there is a very involved birthaunt, 2 birthcousins and a birthgrandma. We are all together at visits. I am more worried about what visits would look like with another child. Actually, when I think about it...I can't see them being anything but warm and welcoming to another child....but I still have that worry.

I like the idea of having the toys ready for hurt feelings if that problem should arise. Cuz let's face it...most kids would not be worried about who it came from, as long as they got something. lol.

Jenna and Awaiting, Thanks for addressing my worry about discussing another adoption with my sons birthmom. I'm not looking for her to help us make a decision. What I am concerned about is her feelings regarding the matter. Would it be more sensitive to tell her about it before hand, or would it matter? I guess I just don't know how she would view it. I would not be seeking reassurance from her, I would just not want her thinking I with held something.

If she was a very open personality type person, I'd feel a little more sure of what to do...unfortunately, she's not really a chatty girl. She's not shy either...she's just more matter of fact.

Thanks for your thoughts, they are appreciated.

Leigh

[SchmennaLeigh]

I don't think I came across the way I wanted to. Heh.

I meant to say: It IS your decision. Whether or not she is comfortable with it is not what makes or breaks said decision. I was just saying she may have an initial adverse reaction and some reasoning behind it. Most likely, well before you adopt, she will realize that it will be awesome for all involved. I soon realized that, as Bossy as Munchkin is, it would be good for her to have someone younger than her to actually boss around as opposed to adults. LOL.

Our situation is a little different in the fact that there's not another birthparent of JD, since he's a biological child, but both Josh and I are very warm and welcoming. First of all, we like babies and JD is quite cuddly. Secondly, we are thrilled at their new addition. Third, Munchkin is the "RUNNING" phase and won't sit still long enough for a cuddle (though we got a few in!) so, it was good to cuddle SOMEONE.

I hope you understand that I wasn't saying her reaction should dictate your decision. I was just sharing my experience and shedding some light to some reactions that could occur.

[manni28]

Jenna,



I agree with you on asking the aparents. Also, in regards to bringing a gift; a little dollar gift/card or something will do. I guess my view is a parental view-if my mom, the children's gma, comes to visit and she has a gift for one (excluding bdays) she has a gift for the other, the same if I go and visit my nephews(I bring gifts for all). I realize that each family is different. But as a parent, I would want my family to be inclusive-just like we, the afamily, are expected to include ALL of the bfamily members by acknowledging them, I expect the same for my family.

Like the other poster said-its common etiquette.


Manni28

[Leigh131313]

Actually Jenna, you did make your point! lol

I think that was more of what awaiting was saying.

I appreciate hearing your feelings on the matter. I need to be prepared for the initial emotional reaction. Knowing that it was more of just a gut reaction, is quite reassuring to me.

I guess I am just trying to figure out when would be more apropriate. Will she need a lot of time to process this?

My biggest problem is with the uncertainty of adoption. If i was pregnant, I could just tell her, and in nine months, Here's baby!

With adoption tho, this could take years. There could be matches that don't work out... How much do I involve them in this? I am sparing my family this time, should I spare them as well?

I have to admit, this is also for my own selfish reasons... The worst part of failed matches was phoning everyone to let them know. It is so hard to say over and over, "It's ok, we're fine" when all you want to do is have a good cry and forget about it.

I have at least a couple months to ponder. We haven't started the process (I have the forms sitting neglected by the computer) and even getting that done takes a while. I would definitely wait until a visit, I wouldnt feel comfortable writing about it....hmm.....or would that be better?

Ok, i have a headache now. lol

thanks again for your thoughts.

Leigh

[SchmennaLeigh]

Leigh, here's a possibility with the adoption side of it:

Could you just simply tell her, "Hey, we're looking to adopt another child," and leave it at that until something is more evolved? I believe letting her know ahead of time will spare some hurt feelings she could (or could not!) feel and give her time to adjust. If you want to involve her in potential match worry, you could or you could not. You could decide what you were able to talk about and not talk about. If you were feeling particularly safe in a match, you might tell or you might not. Etc. It's up to YOU in the end. I think letting her know will help but it's not as though you have to call her every time you submit a form.

[mom2GRLC]

As far as the present issue.... I don't feel it has to be equal...I would never expect my daughters birthmom to buy all my kids something....that's just crazy. I am happy with whatever she can offer even if that daoes mean bringing presents.

I was a little concerned for my daughter on the whole gift giving issue...just because
1. I don't want her birthmom to feel like she has to bring her a bunch of gifts everytime she sees her.
2. My daughter has more than enough toys....What I wanted for her more from this relationship was the sentimental things like letters...stories.... family history...medical history...just getting to know her and what she believes and thinks and feels....
3.I don't want her to buy my daughters love...by bringing her every little present she wants

Then again I don't want to rob her of the opportunity to see her open presents and enjoy getting gifts from her.

My kids do understqand the differences in their adoptions at least my older two... the thing that hurts the most to my son is that he doesn't get letters/phone calls or visits from his borthmom....he doesn't even have a picture of her.

While I sympothise with him...I can not rob my daughter of that special relationship. I can only keep offering contant to his birthmom and wait until she is ready until then I will hold him and tell him how dear he is to me and wipe away his tears with as much love as I can poor onto him.

[AwaitingBeloved]

Hi Leigh,
You know, I think you're a lot like me... that you want to protect everyone's feelings, even if it means sparing your own at times.

This forum is actually helping me realize I do this, and to stop doing it. Funny, huh?

I think I'd probably put it out there for your child's birthmom to know. Not that it's right or wrong, but I would want to be able to address any fears or concerns up front, so when I'm in the throws of an already stressful time.. like adopting again.. I can just worry about my feelings, my husbands, and our childs (hypothetically, of course). So... if you are OK with sharing this with her, and you're ready for her possible reaction, then go for it. Just try to remember that her initial reaction will be just that, a reaction. Even if it's happy for you, she might go home and have fears that hit her after the initial happiness wears off. So, try not to react back to her reaction (especially if it's not a happy reaction). I would just start a conversation with her and say "You know, I'd really like to let you know about something we're considering, and give you some time to figure out how you feel about it and feel free to ask me any questions you may have, whenever you have them." And just spill it. I would also use the info that Jenna provided (regarding her feelings when Munchkin's aparents decided to go IVF) and reassure her that your child will always be loved, that won't change, now they will have a younger sibling. I actually told our pbparents in one of our early conversations that I have concerns about an only child. That I don't want to die in 50 years and have this child have no siblings. That's one reason we moved so close to my family a couple months ago. There are a lot of nieces and nephews around here, that will be our child's age (within 10 years or so) so even if we are unable to adopt again, our child will grow up closely with their cousins. And hopefully that will keep them from feeling very lonely later in life when we may not be around anymore. You may even want to let the birthmom know about that kind of benefit to having more than one child. (Not to say that adult only children are lonely... I just can't imagine having been an only child myself... and since my family is my favorite company in the world, the idea of having less of them around is terrifying for me.)

I hope this makes some sense. I do think it's a personal decision, and you have to do what feels right for you. And make sure DH is on board, too, that will make what you do or do not decide easier to deal with.

I think it's wonderful that you want to include the birthmom in this process. She may get to see even more of the process while watching this second adoption. I would caution you to remember that she's not just another loved one, she's your child's birthmom, so try not to vent on her when the process gets stressful. I can see myself saying doing that.. and that wouldn't be a great thing to do!

Good luck with your decision, and congratulations on deciding (maybe) to adopt again. :-)

[Jensboys]

You know what is weird in our situation (and if you know me, you know how thrilled I would be for contact to be consistent) is that the ONLY child in our family that has received a birthday card from Birth Mom's family is our BIOLOGICAL son. Noone on that side of the family has agknowledged "their" kids (and I would be THRILLED) in over 6 years on birthdays or Christmas.

Monday is my oldest son's 11th birthday. I would give my eye teeth, run naked through the streets, and pay the postage and write the darn thing myself if they would just send him a birthday card. Some of you may remember how thrilled I was last year when Bdad sent G the letter for his 10th birthday - this year --- nothing.

I remember feeling that things had to be "even" for all the kids (and to bdad's family's credit when they send gifts, they send equal gift cards to all the kids - or at least an amount of $$ on gift cards that can be divided by 4 and the boys just assume its for all of them) but at this point I would just love SOMETHING from them to give the kids. And in my books, a letter or card would be infinitely more valuable than a gift that will just break.

Anyway, thats my vent for the day.

[mamacrina]

Somehow missed this one. A day late and a dollar short...

Negatives:
1.) Seemingly constant worry about bmom. I'm already a worrier with an ulcer to prove it. Worrying about her safety, mental state (not that she's unstable, but adoption can make anyone question their sanity), and happiness, really ups the ulcer meds. lol Plus, the anniversary of a very life-altering situation is coming up and I can't help.

2.) People thinking we are "so nice to let her have phone calls, pics, videos, visits". It's not nice...it's what we promised...to be in each other's lives. Seems like people don't know what friendship/promises/commitments mean anymore...otherwise, wouldn't they understand?

Jen-I unwittingly had the book the aparent wrote. I tossed it when I found out. I felt dirty by association.

[soccermom77]

I did an open adoption, and kept my part of the deal and then some. Not only did I take care of the child she gave me, once a week, I took food and clothes to her OTHER children. Then when it came that she wanted to give the little sister up, she sold to highest bidder, which was not me. Those people promised an "open adoption" and so far, the am has rebutted with the saying that we are "white trash" and she does not want her daughter around that. I recently informed her that children belong to GOD, not us. We just borrow them for awhile. This child has so many problems because she has been told that none of us wanted her. It is hard for my son. When children 4 and 5 were taken away, I went to DFCS and beat on the door, and told the judge why they deserved to be with their sibling. They are currently being adopted by my aunt who was unable to have children in an OPEN adoption. All 3 children visit with **, although it is supervised due to some concerns, but they still do see her. My son is almost 14, and he is wanting to visit less and less, but I want him to know that I was secure in my love for him enough to want him to have a relationship with his **.