[Leigh131313]

Jenna,

Sure! you can ask! And I am not at all offended. I can see why it may seem strange.

Why I will sign a morally binding agreement. Because I do plan to do everything that I signed to. I think it re-assures the birthparents, and also really spells out what the intentions are. That way, no one will be assuming anything, it's layed out in black and white.

Why I won't sign a legal document. There are a few reasons.

1- I want to be able to make decisions for my child without the courts being involved. If I decide for MY reasons that things need to change, I have that right. Some compare this to divorce and signing visitation etc. But i see that differently. Adoption is not co-parenting and one should not confuse the two. I would also like to point out that in our morally binding agreement it states that if at any time we (dh and i) feel that continuing contact is not in our families best interest, we have the right to make that choice. We thoroughly discussed what events would lead to this.

2- Because life happens. I would not want to have to go to court because I had a bad year and could not arrange a time to visit with the birthfamily or they with us. What if we or they move? This is why if i did sign something it would be very minimal and only regard written contact.

3- I would NEVER take my sons birthmother to court for not holding her end of the bargain up.

4- I do not want a document that may limit the growth of our relationship. I think that all relationships need time to grow and get comfortable.


I hope that explains my thoughts on this matter. I take my morally binding agreement very seriously.

This may sound strange...but...if we do adopt again, I think that the next birthmother can find a little reassurance in the fact that we have really worked on our relationship with my sons birthfamily. I think actions speak volumes, and she will have the benefit of seeing our actions.

I'd love feedback on my thoughts.

Leigh

[LisaCA]

okay, so far I'm the only one who has signed a legally binding agreement.

we brought up the topic with dd's bdad after he surfaced 7-8 months after placement. He knew nothing of us and we of him, but wanted to let him know we were here for the long haul and that we meant what we said.

our agreement stipulates photos at certain times of the year (like xmas, father's day, dd's bday). Phone calls do not include dd but are listed as "periodic". We are open to visits (which we intend to do yearly) but aren't committed to do.

for us this agreement was a minimum of what we intend to do and currently do. It really helped to set the tone for our relationship. As a young black man, he had no reason to trust any of us involved in this relationship, esp the agencies involved. This agreement brought it down to his family and our family and helped to reassure him that we want him in our lives. and we feel it worked. he called us this year to wish dh a happy father's day.

[Ragnarok]

Interesting. I do not see "morally binding" as particularly reassuring when it involves strangers whose morals may well be questionable. As a birth parent, the possibility of an adoptive family deciding it is "in the best interests of their family to close the adoption" is the scariest thing imaginible, and happens way too often. While I understand not wanting to get courts involved, that is only ever going to happen if one of the parties breaks the contract, and the contract need only stipulate minimum requirements, whereas the participants may in fact go far above and beyond that. We have way more contact with my son's family than our agreement requires.

[SchmennaLeigh]

Oooh, I'm excited that this discussion is flowing so well.

--

Leigh, that was an awesome explanation. I particularlly like your reasonings of not wanting to limit the growth of your relationship and the fact that you wouldn't take your child's birthmother to court over the contract either. I think we often forget that in a legal contract (such as we're discussing) BOTH sides are accountable and responsible for action.

I do slightly agree with Brad, however, that it's just plain old hard for expectant parents considering adoption (and even new birthparents post-placement) to trust a complete set of strangers, even if they are offering the "morally binding" agreement. (As I'm sure it's hard for the adoptive family to get a good feel for the birthfamily. Trust simply takes time, in my opinion.)

I don't know where a good middle ground is in regards to the issues that Brad brought up (which ARE serious issues; we see all too often that things are promised and simply never delivered) and the issues Leigh brings up (adoption is NOT co-parenting in ANY way, shape or form).

Hmmm.

And, with that, big hugs to sugarbaby'smama. *hugs* It's okay to be angry. If I had been in your situation, I would have the exact same feeling regarding any court system in my family. No doubt. *more hugs*

Continue to discuss. I'll try to form a coherent opinion... soon.

[LisaCA]

I just put myself in dd's bdad's place and thought about how it felt. I can't imagine why he should trust us. He may wish he could, but there's no real reason for him to trust us. and reading the bparent boards, it's clear that there are many folks who feel they have been burned in this "game". it was a no brainer for us.

For me adoption works this way - padoptive parents take a major risk in accepting a placement and waiting for all the paperwork to be signed and for finalization. bparents take the risk placing their child with some other family, hoping that those aparents will keep their word. My risk as an aparent went on for about 16 months (slow finalization in CA). my daughter's bparents' risk goes on forever. Given that, I felt it was the least I could do, to cut that risk down somewhat.

[sneezyone]

I guess if the obligation to maintain contact worked both ways I'd consider it. What I don't like is that many agreements specify what the aparents will do but do not place the same requirements upon birthparents. I agreed, when we adopted dd, to remain in contact b/c I think that's important for dd to have some way to get her questions answered as the years go by - but I have no such committment from bmom. If I were to ever stop sending my notes into thin air, I'd be condemned pretty quick as not acting in dd's best interests -- but the reverse is often not true. There isn't the same opposition to bparents not keeping in touch. Can you imagine the uproar if a bmom or bdad was dragged into arbitration or court b/c they moved on with their life?

[LisaCA]

ours does go both ways. bdad is supposed to send us an updates about himself (phone or letter or email) at least once a year and is welcome to send pictures, etc. The wording we have reiterates that the reason for this is the welfare of our daughter.

do I plan to take him to court if he doesn't? probably not, but I do have the right to.

remember, these are agreements that both parties negotiate. you can include what you want in them, or remove what you're not happy with, as long as both parties agree.

[Leigh131313]

Hi again.

I agree, it sounds awful to say that I get to decide when to cut off contact. But that is the reality of it. Thats why i felt it important to be discussed PRIOR to her signing. I stated exactly what reasons would lead to physical contact being cut off. Not only did she understand, but she agreed.

As Lisa posted, both sides have to have faith in the other (with no foundation to base this faith on). If the birthparent needs something legal, then I'm not the adoptive family for her/him. That is the beauty about open adoption....if you do not agree with anything about me, you dont have to place your child with me. I felt being as open and honest about how we saw the relationship was the best way to go.

When we met my sons birthmom, she did not think having actual visits would even be a possibility. She thought pictures and updates would be all that she would be able to recieve, and she was fine with that. I was the one who said that I thought they were important people in not only the childs life, but MY life. I explained to her and her family why I would not only tolerate, but apreciate and want them being active members in our family.

So, maybe that is why that was enough for her. Honestly I don't know.

I fully appreciate that the idea of an adoption being closed is one of the most terrifying things that could happen to a birthparent. I have also seen a child greatly effected by the acts of her birthparents. I've seen her tear up when I asked how her visit went, not knowing that her birthmom did not show up. I've seen her deal with her birthmother's drug abuse better than any adult could, but it still devestates her . I would not allow this to happen to my child. I would not wait for a court to decide what was acceptable and what wasnt, and I will not justify to anyone why i feel this way.

PLEASE do not think that I am stereotyping. This is a very true story.

I'm not worried that my son's birthmom will stand us up.
I'm not worried that my sons birthmom will get into drugs.
I'm not worried that my sons birthmom will just stop talking to us.
I'm not worried that my son's birthmom will undermine me or my family in any way.

I didn't need her to sign anything stating this, I just have faith in her. It's a risk I'm willing to take.

Oh, we also have way more contact then what was agreed to in our morally binding agreement. I have followed through on all of my promises, and gone beyond in most cases. However, she has not really followed through on hers. It has caused us a bit of frustration, but we are dealing with that.

Jenna, you say you aren't sure what the answer is. I think the answer is different for everybody. It is up to both parties to make sure that they are comfortable with the situation. There is no right or wrong. In my opinion anyway.

Leigh

[tsmaman]

I missed the poll - I'm often untimely in such matters anyway.

We have an open adoption legally binding agreement with both the bmom & bdad. We agreed to 6 visits a year + phone calls, letters, photos, etc. This legally binds us for 18 years. (state of Washington)

I must admit that it was frightening for us to sign it even though we were/are perfectly accepting of what we signed. Things are fine with our whole family (including birthparents). While we don't have an open adoption poster family, we still maintain a caring relationship. The odd thing (IMO) is that WE are the ones who are continuously making the arrangements to see them, to call them, to send updates, etc.

We are hoping to adopt another and have turned done baby born sitations because of the lack of openness.

Are there any of you in such a situation?

SAM

[SpiffyDragon13]

As a soon to be bmom in what I guess you could call a good-faith open adoption, everything I've read here is very reassuring. I met the soon to be aparents about 2 months ago and am due to deliver now in a coupla weeks. I do admit, it felt a bit awkward meeting them the first time, but after we talked and shared, something in my gut tole me they were the right people to take care of my child.
In my state, there are no legally binding open-adoptions, and our agency we're working with hasn't even mentioned some sort of "good faith contract." When the social worker sat down with us to discuss the arrangement me and the amom discussed about contact after the delivery, she made sure to stress upon both of us that this was a gentlemen's agreement as she put it, just a verbal agreement between me and the parents but nothing physically binding them from allowing the contact I wish in coming years. I will admit, this made me a bit nervous. But the help and support that the aparents have already given me, and the openess we have have whenever we talk about any subject, reassures me more and more that I chose two people who I can trust.
And in case you're curious as to why I chose open adoption and what my wishes concerning contact are: first and foremost, I'm not ready to be a mom to this child or any other, not really a very maternal type of person. I want is to give my child a loving mom and dad and be someone who through the years the child may be able to look at as a friend, just another role-model among the many role-models children have as they grow up. I'm not mom, I'm just Alanna, who when the time is right, we'll explain how I carried them and gave them to their mom and dad.
My second reason for choosing open adoption has to do with my own parents. Both are in very bad health, one terminal with cancer, the other has post-polio syndrome and chrones disease. This may be the only grandchild they ever live to see, and I want them to have the oppurtunity to be that. Just cause I'm not ready to be a mom, shouldn't mean my parents shouldn't be able to also love and get to know this child. When I discussed this with the amom, she loved the idea. Her words, were that she felt you can never have too many loving relatives. And both me and the aparents know several children who grow up with 3 or more sets of grandparents and it never becomes a confusing issue. Children are pretty adaptable at figuring that stuff out.
My last reason for open-adoption is because the bdad in this situation dissappeared, and unfortunately I was not able to gather any info on him before he ran off. If in years to come I should happen to run into him, and am able to get stuff like last name, medical history and ethnic backround, this way I have open communication with the birthparents to pass this info on to them, and then eventually the child.
In closing, I've found open-adoption to be a very wonderful thing if both the aprents and bparents can open up and trust one another. But it's also very nerve-racking. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't at least the tiniest bit afraid that one day I woke up and for whatever reason the aparents said "No, we don't want you to see (insert name of child here) anymore" But all I can do, is keep up on my end of the bargain. Keep in contact, make as much of an effort as they hopefully will, and just hope that everything works out for the best.

[Poolside]

We do not have an official open adoption agreement. Although they're not legal in my state, that's not the reason we don't have one. We talked about it very little, and the agency didn't offer any advice or recommendation on visits, letters and pictures. We were kind of left to guess at what the appropriate amount of communication would be. We have full disclosure of names and addresses, and corrospond on Email quite frequently. Bmom has expressed no interest in visits with DD, and has only commented on the pictures, letters, and gifts once in two years (at least 10-packages).. Sometimes there is not much time to get to know one another and entering a legal contract for visitation for years in the future would be difficult. Not everyone presents their true self in the early visits (adoptive families, and birthparents both). It might be nice to have an mandatory annual or semi-annnual opportunity to discuss expectations for openness in the coming years. I would like that.

[MkMw]

We do not have a legally binding agreement, I don't think they are legal in our state (VA) but I'm not positive. I do know that birth and adoptive parents are required to meet and exchange contact information. Our agreement with both the boys' birthMom and birthFather is verbal. Ours is international, so certainly not typical. We had visits when we were there (for 4 mnths) with their birthMom and her family, I met their birthFather once, he has never seen the boys except in pictures (from us).

Would I sign one - I don't know, I guess it would depend on the agreement. I kind of think like Leigh on this one. I would definately sign one for staying in contact, letters and pictures, but visits can be tricky - what if my DH & I decide to move back to Alaska (unlikely, but it could happen we do talk about it periodically) and have a heavy visit schedule in VA? I guess that's a big part of it for me.

Morally bound - o.k., I tend to think of it more along the lines of integrity - I made a promise, and I will keep it, we have a good relationship with their birthMom and well, we'll see how it goes with birthFather, it is definately not comfortable now, but I will continue to send updates. On the flip side, both birthParents have said they will send pictures (of themselves and the boys' half siblings) and currently the ONLY pictures I have are the ones I took when I was there. Hopefully that will change.

[niandca]

We have an enforceable agreement..but not really sure what enforceable means and have not ever been able to get a straight answer on that.


Adoption was in MA. We now live in AZ. Modifying the agreement means starting a separate civil case...in MA...to which the only remedy can be a court order.

If bmom doesn't write for 2 years, the contract is void. But if I want to try to FORCE her to write before the 2 years is up, I guess I can go to court for a court order and have her thrown in jail when she doesn't comply.

If I am the one who chooses to reduce bmom's contact, then I have to go back to MA to initiate a court case. I will have to try & explain to a judge why I feel contact is no longer in the best interest of MY child and hope he agrees. If he doesn't, I could also end up paying for court fees & bmom's attorney (if she has one).

The other option is to just do whatever I feel I need to without going back to MA for court. Maybe bmom will initiate a court case & I will still end up having to go back to MA. She will likely get a court order in that case & what? have me thrown in jail for refusing her letters? How is that in the best interest of the child? Or maybe I just would get fined...again, best interest of the child?

I guess this is a new area...I have no clue what really happens. It all sounds so ludicrous. I sure would love to know.

I would not recommend it any case, though I would recommend non binding ones if there is to be contact.

[mamacrina]

OA agreements aren't legally enforceable in our state, but we did sign a morally binding/good faith agreement. We're old school and feel that you are your word.

[lisa in venice]

I voted no as I never thought of it. I DO have a morally binding open adoption. They are now family so how could we do anything else and more importantly they are family of choice not just people that I got "stuck" with at birth.

lisa