[shadow riderer]

Hi Everyone:

I've been reading a few threads and they started me thinking. There are a lot of threads about Bmom's, what it was like for them, how they feel, etc., but few if anything about BDad's. I know that is partly because, well, guys, aren't going to "talk" about their feelings like us gals do. I was reading the thread about "How Out Are You" and it made me wonder about Bdads.

I'm probably not going to explain well what I'm going for here, but basically, I wonder what it was like for Bdads. How did they feel when they were told, "I'm pregnant." What did their parents say to them. What did their friends say and how did they react? Did they ever think about we, adoptees, after we were placed? I hope you guys get where I'm going with this? Birthfathers have feelings and issues too, even if they don't always acknowledge them.

Because there are not a lot of Bdads on the forum, I think we might have to speculate as to what it was/is like for birthfathers. I hope some Bdads will post here and share their feelings about being a birth father. Since the likelyhood of that happening is slim, I'm asking everyone to give/share their opinions, stories, thoughts, basically anything you want on the subject of birthfathers feelings thoughts, attitude, etc. No bashing please.

I find my, own, Bdad's initial reaction to me quite interesting. My Bmom never told him he had a daughter, but she did call him about 5 or 6 months into her pregnancy. I don't know what that conversation consisted of, and probably never will. It doesn't really matter. I was unclear as to if Bmom actually "told" him she was pregnant, but he knew she very well could be carrying his child. He told me he thought she was trying to trick him into marriage. Neither of their stories about that conversation make much sense, and neither of them have been very good at telling the truth or taking responsibility. Again, not really important or what this is about. I've read that most birthfather's, when told of a pregnancy, first reaction is immediate denial. Case in point, my Bdad, and I think for any guy that initial denial would be understandable. I wonder how other Birthfathers reacted to the news?

Another thing I found interesting about my Bdad: His first reaction was, "If you are my daughter, you are going to be a part of my life." It was a weird, sort of taking possesion thing? Almost a subconscious obligation sort of thing, now that he was much older and now was going to do the responsible thing? I hope that makes some sense. It wasn't a bad thing, just a reaction kind of thing, for lack of a better way to describe it, a manly thing. He was insistant on telling everyone his name was on my birth certificate. I don't really understand why that was so important to him. His name wasn't on my OBC. Heck, I wasn't even named on my OBC. He still insist on telling people that his name is on my OBC. I just find it interesting, and don't really see the big deal.

Unlike my Bmom, my Bdad was in no way ashamed of telling any and everyone that I was his daughter, and about how he didn't "know". He conveniently left out the fact that, well, he did sort of know that he had gotten my birth mother pregnant. I'm just speculating here, but I think he conveniently left that minor detail out of the story because he knew people might look at him as "the dead beat who didn't take responsibility" guy. I know that's kind of harsh. I'm not saying it out of anger or to stereo type Bdads. I'm saying it to make a point that birthfathers are looked down on just like birthmothers have been. Wouldn't societies veiw of birthfathers have an effect on them, just like it has the rest of us?

Basically, how did/does adoption effect birthfathers? Without many birthfathers to share here, I think the best we can do is share facts we know, our own stories and experiences with bDads, and just guess. So, everyone feel free to guess and speculate away, but please try to be fair to the birthfathers in your lives. Participation from all members of the triad is welcom and encouraged. Let's just see where this goes? I'm hoping to gain the same understanding of my Bfather as you guys have given me of my Bmom.

[loveajax]

It's interesting to "speculate," isn't it? My DH has no info (yet) on his birth dad and claims to not be interested in finding him (I know this could change). Not even sure if his birth dad knows he exists, etc.

My own DD's birth dad is amazing. I love the guy. He is definitely not as "emotional" as DD's birth mom about DD and the adoption but I know how much he loves her (we saw him a couple of weeks ago). He is such a fun guy and I love that he and DD's birth mom are happily married, etc. I also learned that he was completely supportive of DD's birth mom's decision (whether to parent or place)...which I was glad about (I got the "impression" earlier that maybe he was the one who really was "pushing" the adoption). I think sometimes I "presume" that the adoption hasn't affected him as much which is bad of me to do (it's just you know...the guy thing!).

[quantum]

I didn't want to involve the birthfather at all. Technically, it was a miracle I got pregnant by him at all!
I did inform him though, as I was told my son would be in foster care a much shorter time if he signed off as well.
So, his reaction 'why didn't you get an abortion?'
I'm also certain he thinks the child isn't his (the technicalities I'm referring to).
His parents assumed I was wanting money.
Not a good experiance for me to be honest!

I don't know if he thinks of his son at all. I seriously wonder if he thinks that I used his name but that he isn't really the father and so he's probably forgotten about it. I also wonder if my son finds him, if he would ask for a dna test.

Thing is, I've blacked out his last name, I got rid of any letters and photos years ago. I made contact with a mutual friend from that time, but that friend (after an initial 'sure I'll help you out) refuses to answer any of my emails. I would think that the friend would have wanted to know if it had been his child...as I know he's a dad himself now.
*sigh*

I guess it's hard, I wish that this friend would help out because I'd love to give the birthdad a chance to get to know his son, and I know that his son would like to know a bit more about him...

[Dickons]

In the closed era birth fathers were said to be 'sowing their wild oats' and not looked down on per se because if a woman became pregnant they were 'loose' and who knew how many men she had slept with...gag...If they 'escaped' marriage and mothers were sent away their friends (and perhaps family) probably congratulated them for escaping the noose...makes me sick to my stomach...gag.

In defense of birth fathers, they weren't pregnant and most probably cannot truly 'get it' until after the child is born and they bond...if they don't get that chance then the child remains unreal to them.

Hopefully birth fathers will chime in.

Kind regards,
Dickons

[lahdh4]

Biker Boy was involved. However, saying that he also follows the saying: Out of sight, Out of Mind.
He hasn't gone to any of the visits. He hasn't seen photos of Super girl (his own choice). He has, however, asked how things are going.
I would like to tell him more about Supergirl but ............

[lovemy2boys]

We just met AJ's firstdad this past Thanksgiving...He opened up a bit about his story...

He was 17 when D became pregnant...

Without going into specifics, he felt very much trapped in his father's home and really didn't feel that he could be raise a child, with or without D. When D mentioned adoption, he "agreed" it would be "best" for all three of them.

The part that absolutely devastates me is that as a minor, his father had to sign TPR as well. Not sure of the specifics (and neither is he), but M was called into the counselors office during school one afternoon before AJ was born. The counselor told him that his Dad had the paperwork sent over and that he needed to sign TPR. In school. In his counselor's office before his child was born. And he did it because he was just a kid and didn't know any better - he was doing what he was told.

And THIS is just one of many reasons why TPR prior to birth makes me sick to the pit of my stomach.

Anyway, fate intervened and we found each other and opened what was a closed adoption. This past Thanksgiving, he came back to MI and we met up. As we were talking, he told us that he feared we hated him, feared AJ would hate him and that he didn't know if we'd ever want to see or hear from him because he "abandoned" AJ for 7 years (man do I hate that word! I was just saying that last night...)

Anyway, we talked, I cried, we told him how important he was to ALL of us...He told us how he ALWAYS thought about AJ, especially when his son M was born. He wondered if AJ was smart, handsome, kind, funny, etc. And now he knows.

Now? We don't hear from him really. We write, he doesn't, but his wife will respond once in a while. I assume we'll hear from him on AJ's bday and Christmas, even though I hope one day he'll feel comfortable to respond more often.

JD's firstparents were together at the time, and wanted to parent, but in the end decided to make an adoption plan. It's not like they were or weren't supportive of each other, but they both were back and forth about it.

He's very reserved with his emotions as well. We hear from him about once a year, but obvious that he thinks about JD and loves him very much.

[jp4ga]

We are just now finding out about the Bdad of our adopted daughter. The bmom did not fill out any information on the forms from the adoption agency so we know nothing about medical or family history. When we asked about him she said he was not in the picture.

9 months later.... I contact him on my own using his first and last name and bday for searching. I tell him that I know he does not want to be involved with DD, but could he please fill out a medical form concerning his family history so that our DD can receive proper medical care. HE CRIED. He very much wants to be involved, he wants updates, pictures and wants to see her in person. He said he felt forced into adoption by the bmom, but he knew he could not raise the baby on his own so he did sign. Through this conversation I also found out that my DD has a FULL bio brother. We now have contact every few weeks.

Prior to the adoption the bmom made the bdad sound like a abusive looser. From what we can tell most of what she told us was not the truth. The bdad and the bmom only see each other once in a while when arranging visits for the other child they have together.

We have a better relationship with the bdad than we do with the bmom. He seems to be really caring. He was just too young 21 to take on the responsibiltiy of another child.

[Dickons]

Kudo's to you Debbie for both searching/asking for a medical history and then for being open to the unexpected.

So wonderful to hear positive things and a timely reminder to all of us to not take words as facts, but to do the research and see the truth with your own eyes.

Kind regards,
Dickons

[shadow riderer]

Dickons wrote: “In the closed era birth fathers were said to be 'sowing their wild oats' and not looked down on per se because if a woman became pregnant they were 'loose'
and who knew how many men she had slept with...gag...If they 'escaped' marriage and mothers were sent away their friends (and perhaps family) probably
congratulated them for escaping the noose...makes me sick to my stomach...gag.”
You know, I’ve heard that. I’m sure those things happened. I have to wonder sometimes, especially after reuniting with my Bfather, even if those things were said and done, did people really feel that way, or was it what society said they should feel. My bmom’s family most definitely have some issues towards my Bdad. To put it nicely, let’s just say he wont ever be invited to the family Thanksgiving gathering. My Bmom’s family certainly hasn’t released him from his role in what happened. Apparently, they “expected” him to do the right thing. My Bmom’s mother even wrote a letter to myBdad’s mother on the subject, though this has not been proven to be fact. The story goes: Bdad’s mom wrote back with the stereo typical, your daughter is loose. It’s not my son’s, and the like. Bmom can’t produce the letter and wont ask Bgradmother for it. Bdad says he knew nothing of any letter, but Bdad’s family say that Bdad’s mother would most definitely do such a thing and never say a word to him. I believe the letters were written. The whole thing just kind of makes your head spin. I have to wonder if BBdad’s really got off with pats on the back. Maybe outwardly, but behind close doors weren’t, at least, some of them chastised for not being responsible? Weren’t they sometimes looked down on for “not doing the right thing”?

My Bdad, most definitely, has some major guilt issues over the whole situation. There is no doubt in my mind that he is just as “ashamed” of himself as by Bmom. He’s just much better at denying it. He’s definitely got his demons with the situation.

Going on my birthfather’s family , my Bdad, my Bmom and her family, other similar experiences and situations, and a whole host of other things, I just don’t buy the whole “men were patted on the back and congratulated” thing. I know there are those guys, who boast of all the women they have had ectc., but who wants to stand up and say “Yeah, I got her pregnant and then left her holding the bag.”, so to speak. I’m thinking that’s not exactly something most guys would truly be proud of if the truth were known? A lot of people might have congratulated them for “dodging the bullet”, but wouldn’t just as many people look at them as sorry you know whats for not taking responsibility?


Dickons wrote: “In defense of birth fathers, they weren't pregnant and most probably cannot truly 'get it' until after the child is born and they bond...if they don't
get that chance then the child remains unreal to them.

Hopefully birth fathers will chime in.

Kind regards,
Dickons”

That is so right on the money. The fact that my Bmom never called him again, never told him he had a daughter, makes me wonder, if not knowing he had a “daughter” somehow made it easier for him to just “put it behind” him. He must have wondered though. In our very first conversation, he repeated over and over, “I never heard back. I never knew for sure.” And “ “I never knew.” I recall him telling me later about how special Bmom was to him. He made the remark, “After all these years (40) I still remember her.” I think he was trying to convince himself of something. I don’t know what, but I was getting a little tickeled at the whole thing, because he was really going overboard. I made a comment, something like, I don’t know, but if I were a guy, and some girl I had been dating called me up and told me she thought she was pregnant, I think I would have a hard time forgetting her too. It was sort of a smack back to reality for him, and then he quickly changed the subject.

I know it wasn’t the same as it was for birthmothers, but weren’t birthfathers, back in the closed error, looked down on too?It might have been easier for birthfathers, but is certainly wasn’t something to be proud of, brag about, or even talk about, was it? It always sounds like birth fathers are getting off scott free in adoption, and painted as uncaring and sometimes heartless jerks. Even cosindering myown reunion hasn’t turned out all the great, there isn’t a doubt in my mind that my relinquishment didn’t have a major effect on my Bdad and his future just like it did my Bmom. It wasn’t the same but it was profound in it’s own way. Then again, maybe I just “want” to believe that?

[Janeytwo]

Hey Shadow,

This is a long post. Sorry. But this is a subject I usually avoid - in fact I did avoid it yesterday - as, quite frankly, I have yet to see the type of judgements and language used against birthmothers mentioned at all about birthfathers. Young women suffer a double standard in society; that hasn't changed.

I have to wonder if BBdad’s really got off with pats on the back. Maybe outwardly, but behind close doors weren’t, at least, some of them chastised for not being responsible? Weren’t they sometimes looked down on for “not doing the right thing”?

I would certainly hope not.

Here's a little story for you though that addresses the responsibility angle. Back when my eldest was 17 - that would be 1994 - a few of my SIL's and I were talking about teen pregnancy and our daughters and how hard we were working to make sure they were "protected".

I asked one of my SIL's if it was uncomfortable having to have that talk with her 17 year old son. After all, in my mind, a teen boy should be protected also as 17 is young to become a father.

My one SIL said (and I'll never forget this): "If the girl's too stupid to use condoms and she gets knocked up? Well that's HER parent's problem. Not my son's."

The rest of them laughed which was beyond disgusting because they had daughters!!!

After that, I moved those SIL's into the "skank" category and wrote them off as useless. However, I'm not stupid enough to think for one moment that their attitude is unique. There's a lot of folks out there who think the very same thing, but they just don't say it. Don't kid yourselves people.



Another thing I notice is the generosity which people seem to extend to birthfathers; generosity they withhold from birthmothers. There seems to be an instant acceptance of the birthfather's claims that they "didn't know" or they were "too young" or they were "spurned by the bmom".......that kind of thing.

I'm not saying those things don't happen. Of course they do.

However on claim #1 most especially: If you are a man and you - pull out your equipment and use it - let's say? Well then, you are as liable for your actions as I am (as a woman) in allowing it. A woman can never claim "she didn't know" simply by virtue of biology because she is the one carrying the baby to term.

Now that is not to say that some women didn't tell their boyfriends or what-have-you. But I personally spent many nights with young girls my age at the time who were pregnant and were agonizing over telling the father. Their biggest fear? He'd leave them or claim the baby wasn't his.

In their defense, those guys were young themselves and probably just as frightened as the bmoms were. I have no problem understanding that and I sympathize with those teen boys in their youth.

What disturbs me is the way people automatically accept the birthdad's explanation that he didn't know. It's as if all he has to do in his adult years is feign ignorance and people buy it. I can see situations of course where he might not know. After all, there are women who didn't tell for whatever reason. But I'm not going to accept "birthdad didn't know" as a blanket statement because it's harming for women.

It's also darn near impossible without valid witnesses for a woman to prove the guy did know. Once a man says he had no idea? It's his word against hers and his seems to usually win out.

Why is it that women must prove their morality but men are given a pass?


I am using the below quote as example only for argument. It is not meant as judgement of the person who posted it in any way or the bdad mentioned:

He said he felt forced into adoption by the bmom, but he knew he could not raise the baby on his own so he did sign.

No birthmother anywhere would ever be allowed to use this as excuse. There have been women who have tried to say they were coerced and they are generally shot down as either liars, or they are "unable to face reality".


In general language only - Did the bdad talk to his parents and ask them to help him fight in court to keep his child? Did he offer to marry the bmom so that he could keep his child? (Not that I agree with that but I'm simply trying to make a point here). Did he go to the bmom's parents and offer to pay child support? How exactly is it that he was "forced" into signing?

Can you see what I'm saying?

"Forced" into signing. That's powerful language right there and connotes some kind of victimhood perpetrated on the bdad by the birthmother.

The ease with which people believe this is frightening.

Look, I will never be able to say that "I couldn't raise my babies on my own" and be accepted. In fact, if you are a birthmother who was dirt poor, it's almost impossible to get that argument across. Somehow poverty means you are supposed to be beyond human in endurance and bravery.

But I digress. Let me put it another way. When was the last time any of you saw anyone accuse a man of throwing his children into dumpsters? Honestly, ask yourselves that.


Please understand, I don't want to lionize men. Many of them have been wronged by women; had their hearts broken too.

I just want people to understand that with the exception of rape; sex is a two-sided street traveled by both parties - not just the female one.

Thanks for listening.

[shadow riderer]

Ah, Janey, I think you hit it for me. I think what I am having trouble with is that, in regards to birthmothers, it's about the child. People say, "How could you give away your child?" Does anyone ever say to a birth father, "Why didn't you take care of your child?"

Your story about your SIL's hit it on the head. Do they not realize that the child "that girl" might be carrying is their grandchild? It's just sad.

[JustPeachy]

What disturbs me is the way people automatically accept the birthdad's explanation that he didn't know. It's as if all he has to do in his adult years is feign ignorance and people buy it. I can see situations of course where he might not know. After all, there are women who didn't tell for whatever reason. But I'm not going to accept "birthdad didn't know" as a blanket statement because it's harming for women.

It's also darn near impossible without valid witnesses for a woman to prove the guy did know. Once a man says he had no idea? It's his word against hers and his seems to usually win out.

Why is it that women must prove their morality but men are given a pass?

WORD, Janey!

The thing that irks me about a lot (not all, but a lot) of men/boys in situations of an unplanned pregnancy is they tend to make weak excuses that are much more readily accepted. "I thought she was on the piiiiiiillllllll!" "I didn't knooowwwwwww she was pregnant" "I didn't think it was miiiiiiiiinnneeee!" Then there can be an overall passivity that just drives me bananas. This, in particular, struck a nerve with me:

In our very first conversation, he repeated over and over, “I never heard back. I never knew for sure.” And “ “I never knew.”

Why was no action taken on his part, or his parent's part if he was a minor, to FIND OUT for sure?? Why did he have to sit back and wait around hear back from someone rather than take a more assertive apporach??

I dunno. It seems with many bdads, they either do the denial thing, they skip out, shut down emotionally, or the total opposite, they want to control the whole situation and control the woman's decision, and not always because they care about the baby, but simply because they want to control the woman.

I don't think all bdads are like this, and I'm sure there are noteworthy exceptions, but many are, especially if they are young and immature. I can understand how they would be terrified and all, and that certainly they can feel badly about the situation, but I don't believe they pay the same price at all that bmoms do. Not by a long shot.

[-maggie]

Excellent post Janey!!! Well said Peachy!!!

IMHO It is a double standard. I will never understand why most bfathers seem to get a free pass while bmothers have to endure the ridicule and stereotypes placed on them by society. It takes two.

The bfathers that I have met have NEVER been asked “how could you” or “why”. It is just accepted, no questions asked.

Could you imagine a world where society allowed bmother’s a little of that respect?

[lisah3389]

Hi! I know one bdad, and he experienced pretty much everything I did. Now, his biggest fear is being rejected. If we ever see her again. Which with possible changes to birthdates, names, and birthstates...I don't see how any of us will ever find the people we're looking for. So sad.

[RavenSong]

Shadow - I've been following this thread since you created it, knowing that I would eventually post on it. I had to wait a couple days, though, because thinking too much about my son's birth father makes me feel really sad. We lost him in a trucking accident back in 1994, and the grief still comes in waves for me at times. But I feel strong enough now to talk about him.

Hmmm, where to start? Mike was a charmer...he was one of those guys who can make you burst out laughing in the middle of an argument. It was always super hard to stay mad at him for any length of time. He had the most infectious grin, and he could always make me smile. I met him right after I turned 15, and I loved him with all of my heart and soul. I never did stop loving him...

For various reasons that I've spoken of before on these forums, Mike and I were not allowed to get married when I became pregnant. My mother had him charged with statutory rape, and he left town...or so I thought. (I would come to find out 18 years later that he had been in San Diego throughout my entire pregnancy and knew thru the grapevine when our son was born.) I kept waiting for him to come back home, but he didn't even call me. I remember when I was in the labor room that I kept praying he would walk through the door. I kept waiting those first few days for him to show up at the hospital...but he never came. The day I was discharged from the hospital, I went immediately to the adoption agency and signed the surrender forms.

I ran into Mike when our son was six months old. He had a new girlfriend, who would soon become his wife. I told him that our son had been placed for adoption, and he seemed pretty stoic about it. I noticed throughout the years (we always kept in touch) that he kind of distanced himself from our child by referring to him as "the boy"...he wouldn't even say his name. He told me that he would pay for a private investigator to find him when he turned 18 if that was what I wanted.

When our son was 11 years old in 1983, both Michael and I went to the adoption agency and signed waivers of confidentiality, just in case DS's parents needed to contact us. We left updated medical histories, some photos, and a letter for our son. I was impressed that Mike did that...because his wife had threatened him with divorce if he ever had anything to do with me again or with our son.

The day before we went to the agency in 1983, I asked him what had happened...how in the world did we lose our son? I had been so angry with him at times for not being there for us. He just looked at me, sighed, and said that he had been a real jerk...that he didn't know why he hadn't been able to stand up to my mother...why he didn't stand up for his son...that he had no excuse. Suddenly all those years of anger just melted away. I realized in that instant that we had just been a couple kids caught up in turbulent times.

About a year after I reunited with our son, I was finally able to arrange a meeting with his birth father. Mike had been ducking phone calls from me, mainly because his wife was giving him a really hard time about DS. The day that he met our son was the last time we ever saw Michael alive. The following year, he was driving a double tanker and jackknifed on the highway during a hail storm.

Like I said, Mike was pretty stoic about losing his son to adoption. As far as I know, none of his male friends ever gave him a hard time about it. They didn't pat him on the back for avoiding parental responsibilities...I think they just didn't talk about it much. I know Mike felt guilty about it, though. And I know that he blamed himself for the grief and pain I endured throughout the years. I don't really know what he thought and felt in the dark of night.

I guess you could say that Mike didn't have any choice when it came to surrendering our son...I am the one who made that decision. The laws in 1972 were a lot different than they are today...unwed fathers weren't given any choice when it came to relinquishment; their signatures were not required. But even though he had no say in the adoption, I do think that he could have made more of an effort to provide for his child...to see to it that his baby was taken care of. I think he could have fought at least a little bit for the both of us.