[Janeytwo]

I had ventured out into the Adult Adoptee forum and read a bit regarding the struggle some adoptees are having with their birthmothers rejecting them.

And I had to ask myself why would a person do that? Reject their child?

I still can't find an answer.

What makes a person run so far from the past that they run from their own blood?

I don't know.

It is difficult for those of us in 12 Step Programs you know because in those places we come across people who've lived hard lives. Ex-drug addicts, ex-convicts, ex-prostitutes. All sorts of folks who've fallen in the deep mud. Here's where things get sticky too. Self-righteousness don't cut it because if you hang around a 12 Step group long enough, your ability to BS yourself about how much better you are than other people becomes reeeaallll difficult to do. In the end, there's just nowhere to hide ya know? You get up in the morning, lookin in the mirror and there you be.

Given that, wouldn't the pain of knowing that I'm running from my child make it difficult to glance in the mirror every day?

I mean sure, I can understand running from myself. I get that. I've seen people run from poverty and then become this "thing" they wouldn't recognize if they passed it in the road. Shiney White Janey comes immediately to mind.

But running from my children?

Hmmm...difficult to picture.

There have been tough questions from my daughters about my life and I'm certain it's been so for others. I can only imagine how tough the questions from my son and daughter will be should I ever meet them. The one that terrifies me, "Tell me about birthfather. What was he like? Did you love him? Did he love you?"

That's going to be a toughie.

Anyway..........I suppose this topic is worn and tired....sort of like I'm feeling today.

Your guys' thoughts..........

Oh and I love you guys!

[babygirl85]

I cannot help you answer that question. But I have a question for you. I am an adoptee ISO bmom. I have wondered a lot about my bfather. How come having your children ask you about their bfather would scare you?

Just tring to understand feelings from all different sides.

[Jo Ellen]

As an adoptee reunited with my bparents what I have learned from my bmom, from reading and from chatting with others about the issues of feeling rejected is it isn't rejection that is happening but more fear of the unknown. For bmoms I have talked with including my bmom all they heard was.....you will never see this child again and you won't ever be their mom. For a bmom to hear that over and over while going through the relinquishment process it is devistating so that is all they can believe. Then when they are found or they find their child there is a lot of fear as to how to approach the relationship and therefore many won't go there so to the adoptee it seems to be rejection of them when in fact it is the fear of the bmom based on what she had been told at relinquishment. Like I said this is just the insight I have gained from it all. I know there is much more others may have to offer but I hope this helps some.

[Janeytwo]

To Jo Ellen and 'Babygirl85' -

Good morning and thanks for posting to me! I have been muddling through something, trying to find answers and it always helps to read what other people write.

Jo Ellen I think you are a psychic!! :-) I had gone to bed last night wondering about this issue and when I'm obsessing on something to that degree, I can generally count on it being God trying to get my friggin attention. LOL!

Anyway, you are absolutely right. It is about fear; my fears. I'm so glad you posted and used that term. I realize now what it is that scares me, even though I can't share it openly. But thank you.

It is an odd legacy being from the "closed" era. I've read a lot of women's stories about that and the way they were treated by agencies and what-not. The terrible lies and discounting of their personhood that they suffered through. I was told that I didn't have to worry, that because my children were together they would never feel the need to search for me. That being raised brother and sister would keep them from the need to look and that I would never hear from them in my lifetime. To go on with my life and accept that they were someone else's children now. To not intrude on their lives later and cause them pain. I was so young. I took it as gospel.

Babygirl85

How come having your children ask you about their bfather would scare you?

Hmmm. Tough thing to answer, I feel like my jugular is exposed. But that's all right. You asked a legitimate question.

It's not about bdad. It's about who I was then. Bdad wouldn't have anything nice to say about me, though in truth we were from the same s**thole. He wasn't no Elvis, as the saying goes. But that's not really going to matter. We live in a society where women are still held to a higher sexual standard than men. That's not a judgement of men. I adore men, I think they're pretty darn awesome - but it is true. If a guy sleeps around with lots of girls, his buddies pat him on the back. The other way around? She's a tramp.

And I have a moral obligation to be honest with my son and daughter when they ask me the bdad question. Lies would not be acceptable. It's not just about respect for them; it's about respect for myself. But those questions will definately lead the two of them back down the road to the past and to 15 year old white trash Janey. Did you see 8 Mile? That trailer park? I was two miles south of that give or take. That won't mean anything to you if you're not from the Motorcity but it will mean something to my children. :-(

Not the legacy I wanted for any of my kids. See I had this fantasy that I would be somebody by now so that I could buy all my kids a house with 3 bedrooms in it and a big new shiney fridge filled with food. And they'd have vouchers I'd prepay for so they could get food at the grocery anytime they wanted. There'd always be whole milk in their refrigerators. That would be wonderful!! And my reliquished son and daughter? I've often wished that even if they didn't know about me, I'd be wealthy enough to set it up so they'd think they won the lottery or something and they'd get the money that way.

Sigh.....that's where my mind goes some days. And that returns itself to what Jo Ellen said about fear. I fear judgement and if I had more to offer maybe my children wouldn't look back at the past and then at me and shake their heads. Not all imaginery that fear either. I can see the ghost there in my daughters' eyes; my daughters who are with me. When I talk of my son and daughter, there's this glimmer in my daughters' eyes; this small hint of shame that they have a mom who, once upon a time, was less than a woman should be.

Like I said, my jugular exposed; deep fears and regrets and unsung naive dreams brought to the light of day. I suspect that that would be enough to frighten anybody.

Thanks for responding both of you and much peace your way today.

[Jackiejdajda]

Janeytwo wrote

And I have a moral obligation to be honest with my son and daughter when they ask me the bdad question. Lies would not be acceptable. It's not just about respect for them; it's about respect for myself. But those questions will definately lead the two of them back down the road to the past and to 15 year old white trash Janey. Did you see 8 Mile? That trailer park? I was two miles south of that give or take. That won't mean anything to you if you're not from the Motorcity but it will mean something to my children. :-(

I had to tell my bson I did not know who his father is.. I know I was messing around then.. I knew I was doing wrong..
But the telling was hard.. I wanted to make things up in order to make sure I looked good so he would like me.. I think that is the issue.. the ‘now will you love me’ issue.. and then in turn becoming someone I am not..
I was a wild child back then.. I messed around thinking I would get away with it..
I was not thinking of others.. I was thinking of myself..

Turning around and facing that and then taking the hit when he does not like me.. or maybe does not like me..

Standing in my truth..

There are truths I will never tell him.. because it would do him harm.. but then I still to this day.. do not know if my truth is something I have changed through the years as I have blank places in my memory..
Stuff I have buried..
I can blame others when I say I cant remember because I was told to forget.. bad collective conscious.. But basically I have to say.. I was a wild person and take the hit..

I did him harm.. but I also did him right.. its all balanced out..

And I am a total believer in going along with fate and doing the best I can..

Sigh.....that's where my mind goes some days. And that returns itself to what Jo Ellen said about fear. I fear judgement and if I had more to offer maybe my children wouldn't look back at the past and then at me and shake their heads. Not all imaginery that fear either. I can see the ghost there in my daughters' eyes; my daughters who are with me. When I talk of my son and daughter, there's this glimmer in my daughters' eyes; this small hint of shame that they have a mom who, once upon a time, was less than a woman should be.

Like I said, my jugular exposed; deep fears and regrets and unsung naive dreams brought to the light of day. I suspect that that would be enough to frighten anybody.

Forgiving the self.. forgiving the self for being human.. human..
I never really enjoyed sex in those days.. I was not doing it for sex.. I was doing it because I was frightened.. and had to belong..
A means to an end.. I belonged to what I was cut off from before..
A horrible way to live..
But I was caught up in it..
And when I cut myself loose took the bus from Boston to Miami.. made sure my son was okay.. I believe I redeemed myself..
Made sure he was okay made sure I got him a home.. that I could not provide..

There is no way in the world that we can say that what happened to us was our fault.. we were acting and reacting.. and stopping the world and saying.. do the right thing.. and stop the wayward ways.. is not going to happen..
I went back to my wild ways a few years after I had him..

Not till I got married and decided that this was it.. I was going to learn a new way.. did I change..
And change I did..

I forgive myself..

Jackie

[donnaparadise]

I wonder if you have answered your own question now, janeytwo?

I read the comments that you made all the time and each and every time I do, they never fail to strike a nerve with me.

No one knows for absolutely sure how one would react given a specific set of circumstances. You have a hard time understanding why a bmother might reject her child and seem to have difficulty wondering why she could not move past her fear and yet, you yourself, have lot of fear of not looking in the best light regarding any questions that might arise around your child's bfather.

Fear and the need to appear 'good enough' is a very subjective thing and some people find they just can not ever move past it. However, there is also the possibility that the bmother just doesn't care. There are those who have give birth, relinquished and moved on; who are more reality based, and less prone to consider what happened as a forever lifestyle, but more of an event that happened and something to be compartamentalized.

I gave birth over 40 years ago when we were told to forget it. I did my best to do so and for the most part, seemed to 'deal' fairly well.

When things started to open up and more and more adoptees were finding their bmothers and there was a Registry created that I could avail myself of, I still didn't do anything about it. I was very clear that I did not want to be found and did not put myself out there.

Only about 10 years or so ago, after being prodded by my best friend, did I place my daughter and my name on a Registry and it took her 10 years to actually google it one day. She contacted me and we were writing for about 3 years. However, she doesn't want to meet and while it is disappointing to now know what she looks like, it is what it is and I'm OK with that.

We communicate less and less now as there is really not much to say. She doesn't want me to know anything much about her and our written communication is mostly about me and what I am doing. It is kind of one-sided and I've run out of steam.

I answered all her questions, even the ones that I was afraid of, and I think she is satisfied - at least she says she is. Luckily, she caught me when I was much older, had gotten through a lot of personal wars, was more than 20+ years sober and living one day at a time, for the most part.

Had she contacted me earlier on, before I had worked through my own demons, I likely would have run and rejected her, myself.

My many meetings in a 12-step group have taught me to live one day at a time, to be sure, but also and more importantly for me to live and let live. No one really can know what causes a person to do what they or we do; all we can do is hope they find serenity, courage and wisdom in their lives.
DonnaParadise

[Jo Ellen]

Janey,

I am glad what I shared has helped you see things easier. Hang in there and always know you have support here. I know this place has been my saving grace for healing. Now if the rest of my family could understand that things would be great. All with time I hope.

[Janeytwo]

Hey there!!

No one else will likely see the humor in what I'm about to say. That's okay....you are Jackie and I am me and together we have been to a very dark Oz......so here's my official welcome back speech ...............

Jackie!!! I'm glad you're back!!! (Truly glad!!!) Though I had a wonderful eulogy prepared for you which was really quite lovely! You would've been impressed! LOL!

Just make sure you have the same prepared for me someday okay, buddy? I want it to be something side-splitting so that, when nobody laughs because they think jokes have no place in front of a casket, you can say out loud, "Man! What a bunch of stiffs!!!" I mean really, what a great line for a funeral, huh? They don't get any better!!!

And who knows, with as many times as I've been hit by other cars while driving that could be today!!!

Now...on to recovery business

the ‘now will you love me’ issue.. and then in turn becoming someone I am not..

Yep. That's it isn't it? Can't lie; can't wrap it up in a pretty bow and ask other human beings to accept that package of doo-doo. I hate that part of me that says, "Nah....come on. You can make something up; something that makes you sound like a saint instead of a sinner". Reminds me of that Blackcrows song... "Angles. Devils. Thorn in my pride".

There are truths I will never tell him.. because it would do him harm.

Yeah. It's like with my daughters who I've raised. I don't tell them much about nutso dad or crazy stepdad. What good would it do. So that's the thing. Telling my children enough so that they can understand it was never their fault, never about rejection and that I loved them; just didn't love myself. The Wallendas never walked a thinner tightrope.

I was doing it because I was frightened.. and had to belong..

So true. Have you ever noticed the looks on men's faces if you say "I never enjoyed. I did it because I was supposed to do it". In AlAnon the AA guys would listen when we spoke in general terms about that kind of thing but you could see it on them, this quesiton. "What do you mean you never enjoyed it? How does a person not enjoy it?" They just didn't believe. I wonder how many are like that. Not from the time or from the sexual place where such a statement as 'I did it becuase I was supposed to' is an understandable statement. Most would see it as a cop out so how can a person relay that deadness, that desparation?

I believe I redeemed myself..
Made sure he was okay made sure I got him a home.. that I could not provide..

I am working on telling myself that. It's weird. I have not doubted I did the right thing; until I came in here. That's the truth. Because I've watched all these young people talking to other pregnant young people about how poverty shouldn't be a consideration in the choice to reliquish. I never doubted that poverty was the main factor until I started seeing that.

And it's okay ya know? Okay that they believe that. I give them their credit. But it has made me wonder, did I not do enough? Did I not do the impossible becuase isn't that what a good mom does? She does the impossible? Pulls a scraggly rabbit from a worn, weathered hat and turns that rabbit into a masterpiece? Why couldn't I do that?

Phew!!! Miles to go...I hope so at any rate.

Welcome back Jackie!! You've been missed!!!

[Jackiejdajda]

Jackie!!! I'm glad you're back!!! (Truly glad!!!) Though I had a wonderful eulogy prepared for you which was really quite lovely! You would've been impressed! LOL!

For a while the pain was constant.. and relentless..
I still can’t believe its gone.. I keep expecting it to return..
Its been coming on for a while.. I remember when I was sitting on the train going to see dad.. from one end of Lake Ontario to the other.. Kingston to Burlington..
I remember that pain.. and I was giving it to myself..
Never give up on me.. ha..

Yep. That's it isn't it? Can't lie; can't wrap it up in a pretty bow and ask other human beings to accept that package of doo-doo. I hate that part of me that says, "Nah....come on. You can make something up; something that makes you sound like a saint instead of a sinner". Reminds me of that Blackcrows song... "Angles. Devils. Thorn in my pride".

We learn.. from the crappy bits..
We learn.. if one does not do crappy bits one does not learn..

I wrote.. “There are truths I will never tell him.. because it would do him harm.”
Yeah. It's like with my daughters who I've raised. I don't tell them much about nutso dad or crazy stepdad. What good would it do. So that's the thing. Telling my children enough so that they can understand it was never their fault, never about rejection and that I loved them; just didn't love myself. The Wallendas never walked a thinner tightrope.

In twelve steps we do inventory.. and then we make amends.. and tell the telling..
We learn about who we are.. and what has happened and get comfortable with it first..

I wrote … “I was doing it because I was frightened.. and had to belong..”
So true. Have you ever noticed the looks on men's faces if you say "I never enjoyed. I did it because I was supposed to do it". In AlAnon the AA guys would listen when we spoke in general terms about that kind of thing but you could see it on them, this quesiton. "What do you mean you never enjoyed it? How does a person not enjoy it?" They just didn't believe. I wonder how many are like that. Not from the time or from the sexual place where such a statement as 'I did it becuase I was supposed to' is an understandable statement. Most would see it as a cop out so how can a person relay that deadness, that desparation?

You cant.. A lot of AA..ers do not understand codependency.. don’t get the part about buckling under in order to be.. and in order to forget what is really going down in the self.. in order to take a pass.. and in turn blame..
I used to think when hubby was acting out.. why am I here? Why is my life so tough?

And it was me.. all the time it was me..

I was taking a pass from the legitimate grief work for bson etc.. and crappy childhood..
“Stand knee deep in the flow of life and pay attention.”

Don’t do what others want in order.. that’s the cheat.. on the self..

I wrote.. “I believe I redeemed myself..
Made sure he was okay made sure I got him a home.. that I could not provide..”
I am working on telling myself that. It's weird. I have not doubted I did the right thing; until I came in here. That's the truth. Because I've watched all these young people talking to other pregnant young people about how poverty shouldn't be a consideration in the choice to relinquish. I never doubted that poverty was the main factor until I started seeing that.

Selves goes itself speaks and spells.. crying what I do is me.. for that I came..

Gerard Manly Hopkins..

I will not say to a pregnant woman that poverty should not be a consideration..
I will not project my angst on them.. who are considering..
There was a woman and or girl on Dr Phil this week.. she had one girl at sixteen and another girl at nineteen.. the fathers are not in the picture..
She is done.. can’t do it.. and is thinking of giving them up.. I could see the look on Dr Phil’s face of non judgment.. and I gave him kudos on that..
But my goodness.. if she gives them up now.. the little girl..
The kids are the prime factor here.. they need stability in order to grow and learn.. the mind grows in leaps and bounds when the home is stable and there is no fear..
I grew up in fear.. and I hated school.. could not learn..
I left at 16.. as soon as I could..

John Bradshaw will say in his books that he could not pack his bags and move down the street to a better home.. he had to stay in the dysfunction..
Just the poverty angle is not enough to me..
There is so much more.. if the baby can not be cared for properly.. take the chance.. and give it a chance.. that’s my take..

And it's okay ya know? Okay that they believe that. I give them their credit. But it has made me wonder, did I not do enough? Did I not do the impossible because isn't that what a good mom does? She does the impossible? Pulls a scraggly rabbit from a worn, weathered hat and turns that rabbit into a masterpiece? Why couldn't I do that?

Accept what I can not change.. can not..
It’s a done deal.. start today..
Second guessing keeps us running in place..
Crazymakers.. in the Artist Way.. telling us that we need to do it their way.. they know best.. crap..

Jackie

[Janeytwo]

Hey Donnaparadise,

Thanks for the response.

Let's see....[quote=donnaparadise]I wonder if you have answered your own question now, janeytwo?

Smiling here. That's usually how it works for me. I throw out there what I'm thinking and then wait for replies. Then I sift through those and through my own feelings/thoughts and arrive where I was meant to be. A rickety, meandering path to be certain but better than sitting there with my thumb up my you-know-what.

Anyhoo...

I read the comments that you made all the time and each and every time I do, they never fail to strike a nerve with me.

I am hoping it's a good nerve and not a bad one. Either way though, communication is key to moving forward I guess.

You have a hard time understanding why a bmother might reject her child and seem to have difficulty wondering why she could not move past her fear and yet, you yourself, have lot of fear of not looking in the best light regarding any questions that might arise around your child's bfather.

I said I fear those questions. No that's not correct. I fear the truth behind the answers I must give and give them I must; regardless of that fear. Because it's not just about my children. It's about running from myself. And that I fear like nothing else. As clearly a longtime member of the Program (at least that's what I'm reading in what you're saying) you can surely understand. To wake up one day and be very old and realize that in running for what I thought was my life, I missed my life completely? No thanks.

There are those who have give birth, relinquished and moved on; who are more reality based, and less prone to consider what happened as a forever lifestyle, but more of an event that happened and something to be compartamentalized.

Forgive me for this response but.... Yeah. Right. Reality-based? Where's the reality in thinking that my actions have no consequences to others? Who tells themselves that? People sitting up in Marquette; that's who. I'm not capable of understanding any other argument there and I'll tell you why. And here's where the rubber meets the road people:

Once upon a time me and some other kids I was friends with hadn't had anything to eat for a couple of days. We were all hanging out on the streetcorner watching people pass by while we rifled through our pockets waiting for change to magically appear. So somebody said (three guesses who that was) "Why don't we hit that guy over there over the head with a bat and take his money? No one'll know it was us."

Some of the others were on board with that but, and thank every God every person out there believes in, one of us had some dang morals and said, "No way man. I ain't hittin nobody with nuthin. I ain't goin to prison."

We argued amongst us about it for a time and eventually that decent kid won out. So we scrounged around the parking lot until we found a couple dimes and went and bought a box of Red Hots and split it between the four of us.

You understand what I'm saying to you Donnaparadise? You understand what I'm saying to everybody?

We all of us have the capacity to steal, to kill, to lie, to commit adultery. I have the capacity to run simply because I am homosapien.

You better dang well believe, everybody here, that I fear that ability and the only way I know of to combat it is to admit that it's there.

Whether that makes me crazy, wrong, right, or some person in between all that doesn't matter.

So that's why I ask what I ask, because once upon a time I was someone else and on any given day, I'm 5 miles from that same place.

Before anyone flames me over this post, take a minute to consider what kind of pure brass it took for me to trust you people that much.


And Donnaparadise - thanks for sharing your story with me. I appreciate it.

[donnaparadise]

Janey, re-reading my comment, I realize it seemed a bit glib. When I said 'reality-based', I didn't necessarily mean to suggest that their attitude was accurate, but more so that these women would characterize their actual lack of emotional involvement as being 'reality-based'.

I know I've been accused of being somewhat narcissistic myself because I am a firm believe in dealing with what it - as I learned how to do in those many, many meetings rooms shared with other 'friends of Bill' for so many years.

I learned to make amends, forgive myself, let go of the shame that binds and deal with what is and now how I would have liked things to be. Many have taken exception to this way of being and have considered me to be callous and without feelings.

I absolutely know that my decisions and actions effected others. I suffered with the shame, regret, and self-loathing of the realization of that for decades. However, AA saved my life on so many levels and perhaps the single most important result was that I was able to see myself as a human being that has made a lot of human experiences and never intentionally set out to hurt anyone, no matter how it turned out.

I too, will do anything to avoid pain - I will live in denial and rationalize and turn all kinds of cartwheels in order to avoid 'dealing'. However, eventually, I am led to whatever it is that needs to be addressed, and moved through and hopefully am able to get to the other side with a little more compassion for those who might have to follow a similar path.

If I have any message for anyone who might be in pain because of what they went through is that it is possible to feel whatever is felt and come out the other side with a more accepting attitude of self.

Instead of wondering how on earth someone could just walk away from a child they gave birth to and later on reject that child again, I prefer to feel sad that there is so much pain behind that decision and ask the Universe to bring serenity and peace to their lives.

I was terrified of telling my 'story' should I be found. Eventually, once I was, I told it all! Warts and all! By the time I was found, it just isn't that important anymore. Amazing what an extra decade or two can do, huh?

thanks for responding back and entering into such an interesting exhange of ideas and opinions.

Donna

[paigeturner]

Jackie!!! Glad you’re still among the living! I was worried, my cyber friend. You were the first person to respond to my first post here many years ago. I was getting very worried.

It’s funny, Janey, your posts always tug at me. Do we ever stop trying to be “good enough?”

I know that that wild child teenager is still alive and well within me. I’m not proud of the person I was back then, but I’m proud of whom I am today and that girl is the driving force within me. I keep her hidden from others. I silence her voice when she whispers that I don’t deserve my success. But she’s with me; in my wicked sense of humor, my snarkiness and my drive. She cheers me on but also lets me know that it’s a miracle that I’m not on the streets – that I was just lucky. Does that sound pathetic?

The birth dad is someone I would never associate with today. He is broken, by his own choices and tough lifestyle. It will be tough when the time comes to share his name with my son. But, I have no control over that. I made my choice 26 years ago when I chose him to be with. He’s not a horrible person, but a person who chose to make horrible choices and they years have not been friendly to him. It’s funny he was the young man that was suppose to succeed…

[paigeturner]

Originally Posted by Janeytwo

Before anyone flames me over this post, take a minute to consider what kind of pure brass it took for me to trust you people that much.

You inspire me! That's all I can say. You're an inspiration. To me.

[cetalley]

If one does not give the whole truth, is it possible for all of us to heal? If and when I meet my twins I Hve vowed to tell them the truth...whole truth. This truth will not be bad regarding their Dad, for he was and is a good person. He just was not a person whom lke working for a living and even though he was good to my son at that time, he was not meant to be a father. If when asked about their dad, I have nothing but good to tell them....my problem will be with the truth, I must tell them that I had NO CHOICE given to me...I was made to choose letting them go to their new parents or lose my 6 yr old....how much damage will this do to them to know I chose their older brother???????? I wish to know them, but also regret haviong to tell them it was I who did the injustice....TRUTH... how does one except it???

[dpen6]

Originally Posted by cetalley

If one does not give the whole truth, is it possible for all of us to heal? ???

LOADED question!! Excellant question! I am asssuming that includes the adoptee and even the aparents. If we are not respectivly honest with each other how can it go on. If in fact, a bmom says She needs her son/daighter to act be a certian way and that son/daughter doesn't say anything like I CAN"T....it shuts comminication down. If an adoptee is really looking for mom or dad and that person is unable for whatever reason it keeps the adoptee hanging on a ledge.