[RavenSong]

Kathy pretty much just said what I was thinking earlier today. It's hard to know if I've become a better person because of the relinquishment experience or not. I don't know who I would have been if I had kept my son or how my life would have been different.

I do know that placing my son for adoption affected me in many areas of my life, almost all of these unforeseen at the time. For sure, my life is a different one than it would have been if I had either raised my son or had not become pregnant in the first place.

I think many of the strengths I've gained during my lifetime have come out of the adoption experience, from having to live and deal with the consequences. I speak up loud and clear whenever I see someone getting bashed unfairly. On the other hand, though, I always did have a problem with keeping my mouth shut...I was always in the "front lines" of the war protest movement during the Vietnam war, and I was just a kid at the time.

The one thing that I've learned from adoption and relinquishment is that life is not a simple thing, that there are many "gray" areas. I've learned that even when people do what they consider the "best thing", it often isn't good enough, or it has unforeseen consequences. I've learned that each and every one of us in the human race have frailties and faults, strengths and positive attributes. And I've learned how to accept people for who they are.

I love this forum, these boards. I love the support and encouragement we give each other. I love how all three sides of the triad reach out to each other here and learn how to see the human being behind the label. I love the honesty here, and the willingness to work out problems among ourselves. I think we're an awesome group.

[RavenSong]

Originally Posted by KarynB

Hey Raven,

I thought that because this thread was posted in the general adoptive parents forum in the exact same words a day previous. I guess it seemed to me a strange question to ask birth moms, and so I honestly thought it was posted more to mock adoptive parents for thinking they are "better, stronger, etc" as a result of their parenting experiences. Again - all of the responses were 100% genuine, I just honestly thought the question was posted as a form of mockery. Totally my mistake (as I have said) but just wanted to clarify - as I have said I learn so much from coming to the birth mothers forums and just reading, but wouldn't be able to do it (for my own emotional welll being) if I thought adoptive parents were made fun of, etc. Hope that clarifies...

Karyn, thank you for clearing this up for me. I think I understand now how you were afraid we were mocking APs. I was confused mainly because when I first posted on this thread, I wasn't aware that the same questions were being asked on the AP forum. I just took the three questions at face value.

I would never participate in a thread where mockery of any side of the triad was taking place. I think most of us are above that kind of nonsense...at least I hope we are.

[quantum]

I've so hesitated to answer this thread. And then I've been trying to figure out why.
I agree with what Kathy said...one thing I do know is that I'm different.
My gut reaction has been 'I don't know if I'm better, stronger or more tolerant because when I placed, I didn't know who I was really. I was too young.'

It's hard to know what you've become when you have a hard time understanding where you started.

[bromanchik]

Better? This one has me stumped. I think there is a core to who I am that is constant. I most certainly would have not written anything on adoption had I not placed, but I have no doubt I would have written something. Maybe on single parenting? Maybe on my life as a blues singer?

Stronger: Perhaps. I lived too many years in shame to feel that the strength I gained was worth the years I lost. It was a mighty battle, and I never want to be in the place again. I would not wish it on my worst enemy.

Tolerant? NO. If anything I suffer fools a lot less gladly. Those in pain are another story.

[Janeytwo]

Hey All! It's raining outside - a lovely fall rain - perfect weather for sipping a good old cup of joe and reflecting. .... Jenna - wonderful thread! :-) .....

Has adoption made you Stronger Shrug. What is strong? I once knew a woman who lost 4 children in 3 1/2 years. All of them between the ages of 19 and 25. 3 of them died of a virulent cancer. And the last one was killed coming home from the funeral of one of the others. That is a true story. Yet this woman kept returning to AlAnon year in year out providing grace and hope for others. I asked her once how she did it; faced the deaths of 4 children because that kind of loss probably would've ended me. Her answer? "I did what I felt I had to do."

And that's really the point IMO. Am I stronger because of what I faced with adoption. I dunno. I did what I felt I had to do. I can't say that that's strength necessarily. Maybe more like a will to endure; to not give in to desperation. There are people out there who face things I couldn't begin to imagine. Yet maybe surrendering their children would've killed them. Perhaps then we are all strong in our way.

I do know that I'm hard in the hard times and that I don't like people who feel perpetually sorry for themselves.

Has adoption made you better/more tolerant I sort of see that as the same question asked two different ways because the only way to be a better person IMO is to be more tolerant of another's humanity.

But in answer to both questions.....Yes and No. On the one hand being forced to "choose" has made me more compassionate towards other people's "choices". Paradoxically however, I have no patience or concern for closed-minded people. I am completely indifferent to them and that is the worst of things really. Oh well, ya know.

I would submit to all the good folk here though that adoption is but one of the experiences that shaped each of us. A heartwrenching, haunting and powerful "one" but is it the only thing that defines us? For myself, I cannot say that. I am not simply a birthmother. I am the mother to 4 children. I am a wife. A sister. A daughter. A friend.

Hope that made sense.

May the road rise to meet you all,

[Janeytwo]

Quantum

It's hard to know what you've become when you have a hard time understanding where you started

Well said! You know as I've read people's posts in this forum, I've picked up on their childhoods. All of them involve some kind of pain; that's how it seems to me anyhow.

Maybe the circumstances around each life story are slightly different but I've not read where anyone has said, "I had this fabulous life, full of sunshine and delight and one day I got pregnant." I don't read that anywhere. Just little hints; little cracks between the lines of sorrow in the much younger years. I'm not sure adoption is an end result of that of course. But if it is then you're right. None of us can deny our past if we want to go forward while at the same time we must go forward and not wallow. Quite the challenge that.

Kathy and Raven You are right. Hindsight is always 20/20. Who would we have been? And what is the point of asking ourselves that anyhow? Asking who we would've been if we'd made a different choice? I can understand why people do that, shoot I'm guilty too, but IMO it's just a way of torturing ourselves. The question is unanswerable. Sort of like, "what came first the chicken or the egg?" I have a feeling if you asked a computer that question, it would blow itself up! LOL! Not that we are automatons of course but you get my drift.

I am learning that it is okay to grieve the past but to regret it brings only more regret.

[bprice215]

It made me much more vigilant and cautious.

bprice215

[SchmennaLeigh]

I have come to a conclusion. And yes, I have been dwelling on this issue for weeks now. It's been a mental struggle in my head.

My life is simply DIFFERENT for having placed.

There. That feels much better than this better/worse discussion. Whew.

(Wrote more on the birth parent blog.)

[ctquilter]

Surrendering my daughter 42 years ago taught me a lot. I learned that I can survive a loss more horrifying than I thought was told it would be. I learned to not be so trusting of authority figures, and seek more than one source of information.

I've always been tolerant. But I did learn that I am stronger than I thought, more resourceful in dealing with grief than I knew, and more patient than I thought possible.

As the parent of 3 children I raised, these have all come in handy. Would I have discovered these abilities without surrendering? Probably, but I learned them earlier by surrendering.

karen in ct

[Scarlet Moon 13]

Originally Posted by SchmennaLeigh

I'm not sure, myself. I think I fall somewhere in the middle.

I know, for a fact, that I can be dragged through the fire and make it out on the other side. With burns? Yes. With scars? Yes. Alive? Yes. So, stronger, yes, I can agree with.

Better is, however, a little harder to pin-point. Better how? I am less trusting. But I was made better by the existence of my daughter in the fact that I want to make her proud of me. Again, flipping it, I am living with lifelong grief and loss. But, again, flipping it, I feel blessed to have such an amazing girl in my life at all. I'm thinking that the "better" is a toss up. To put it simply: I AM better for having known her. But it has not bettered every aspect of my life.

More tolerant? Hmm. As I said, I'm less trusting. And am now frequently on the receiving end of a lot of criticism and judgment. I do think, because of those judgments, I may be compassionate towards others who are more prone to such judgments. (Other young mothers, other birth parents, adoptees' plights, adoptive parents who get grief for caring about birth parent and adoptee rights, and, of course, those outside of the adoption world that are treated just as poorly.) But I also have harsh feelings towards those that don't care about ethical adoptions or reform or adoptee rights. But, at the same time, I wouldn't even know about those issues without my connection to adoption and I think I'd feel that way whether I had placed or adopted or been adopted. So, I'm not quite sure where I fall on the more-or-less-tolerant scale.


(This thread brought to you by an interesting, opposite-side-of-triad post. No attacks for adoptive parents meant. Just copying the idea. Hurrah!)

I saw your email in the newsletter.

Personally, I was pregnant at 15, still growing emotionally, and physically. I was fine the way I was, I didn't need to be stronger, more tolerant. I was raised to be tolerant of others.

What I didn't need was the pain that never goes away. Not even after reunion.
The loss, not knowing for 33 years whether he was alive or dead.
The fear when I married and had two more children that if I didn't measure up somehow, someone would come take my children away and give them to someone else.

Quite simply, why should I have to be stronger or better then anyone else. Can't I just be normal, a regular woman.
As for an adoptive mom being stronger etc, Lets be real, being a parent makes you stronger, more tolerant, hopefully a better person.

Adoption or relinquishment doesn't make you better then someome else. That is what it sounds like, even though it isn't meant that way. Being a parent can make us joyful and wanting to share the experince. Whether you give birth to, adopt or step parent, all these things things and more happen to you.

As a birthmother and adoptee lite (step parent adopted), I hope adoptive parents just become good parents, making a happy family.
Not one of us birthmoms sets out to make adoptive parents better people. That is not why our babies are given/taken away. We hope that our babies get loving familys, parents who just want to be parents.
No saving a child, no relieving someone of a burden, no being a saint because they adopted.
Just making a family, and I hope they are already strong loving people, who are tolerant before they step into agency to look into adoption.

The picture my avatar is me and my birthson after reunion. It has been 11 years this month.
I love him, he loves me, but I can never get back what I lost. No matter how much we try our relationship will not be what I beleive it could have been had I raised him.
I will never have those memories of his childhood.
I can't change it, fix it, wish it away.
I love him, I did from the moment I felt him inside my body. He was my baby, meant for me to raise. It was outside elements and people who change that.
God did not give me my baby for him to go to someone else. That was a human decisison made by my mother.

Yes, part of me is still angry, hurt, and pissed. Mostly that part stays hidden again, no one wants to live with that out front in life everyday.

Take care

[neilsmum]

Thank you tranzila for opening this thrread.

Stronger: In some ways. Ive come out of my reunion traumatized by the actions of my sons ap's. Ive spent 5 years getting over their actions and none of my sons. So stronger that i have taken the step to keep them out of my life. Boundaries are wonderful .

Tolerant: Ive had to learn to relax and let go which was so hard to do, it has made me more patient for my son and wait for him. Learnt that its their problemand not mine so i dont worry about them any more and they have no place in my thoughts. or life. Yes im definately better off for this.

Better: Dont know about that one. Its openedme up to my flaws and insecurities. On the other hand seeing this i can work on these. Catch 22. I like the strenght it gives me for loveing and liking who ive become through this. I like me more than i ever have. More accepting of me in a healthy way.

I still grieve adoption. Sorrow. Istill cry but not often and it gets better as time goes on.