[belleinblue1978]

Originally Posted by proudmum

I do actually walk away knowing the intent was not to offend,,, how can i expect people not involved in adoption to know,,, i dont sit there screaming "i am her mom" they know it and so do i ..

What annoys me is the fact that this person has made the effort to not call the "emom" a "birthmom" yet per your (bmoms) request,,, yet when they try to use the right term and messed up a bit the whole debate about "we are not ex-moms" comes up,,, why could someone just have not pointed out that this was confusing and the way it could look in a nice gentle way...
For goodness sake they made an effort to say the right thing,,,,, now if it was meant as bmom = Ex-mom then yes i say very offensive ...

So we aren't allowed to voice our opinion just b/c a person was "trying". I guess then every thread about someone called a firstmom a real parent and it hurts me from an adoptive parent I'm going to post that it wasn't meant to hurt, so suck it up and get over it.

This should be a safe place to say what hurts us and not be told to suck it up and get over it, as if all of us in the triad don't get enough of that from society in general.

[proudmum]

Originally Posted by belleinblue1978

So we aren't allowed to voice our opinion just b/c a person was "trying". I guess then every thread about someone called a firstmom a real parent and it hurts me from an adoptive parent I'm going to post that it wasn't meant to hurt, so suck it up and get over it.

This should be a safe place to say what hurts us and not be told to suck it up and get over it, as if all of us in the triad don't get enough of that from society in general.

you completely misread my post,,, i never said that... never mind,, there is completely no point is there.......i never said suck it up....never would

[belleinblue1978]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you said that we shouldn't get upset because someone was trying right?

My point, and I think others' as well is that, if you are a member of the triad, why wouldn't you realize that exmom would be a hurtful thing? We shouldn't have to just walk away and not say something. We have a right to our feelings.

Someone is trying isn't an excuse. We don't drive around with signs on our cars saying, "don't steal this", but everyone knows stealing cars is illegal right? So someone involved in adoption should understand how hurtful language can be right?

Ignorance is not an excuse.

[proudmum]

Originally Posted by belleinblue1978

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you said that we shouldn't get upset because someone was trying right?

My point, and I think others' as well is that, if you are a member of the triad, why wouldn't you realize that exmom would be a hurtful thing? We shouldn't have to just walk away and not say something. We have a right to our feelings.

Someone is trying isn't an excuse. We don't drive around with signs on our cars saying, "don't steal this", but everyone knows stealing cars is illegal right? So someone involved in adoption should understand how hurtful language can be right?

Ignorance is not an excuse.

NO i never said you shouldnt get upset if it was used in a derogatory way.... but i think pointing it out in a gentle way would go a long way..
What i dont get was how someone incorrectly using this term to describe a emom has turned into a "we are not "ex-mom" issue,,, or has someone on this site actually used this term to describe a bmom?

[belleinblue1978]

Originally Posted by proudmum

NO i never said you shouldnt get upset if it was used in a derogatory way.... but i think pointing it out in a gentle way would go a long way..
What i dont get was how someone incorrectly using this term to describe a emom has turned into a "we are not "ex-mom" issue,,, or has someone on this site actually used this term to describe a bmom?

I'm not advocating saying "hey dumb*** don't say that." I agree that being gentle is the best way to go.

I also think that here on a firstmom forum we are expressing our feelings in away that lets us be nice when we are confronted by things like that.

I don't know if someone on a forum referred to a firstmom that way, doesn't really matter, we're expressing our feelings on a term.

[paigeturner]

I will venture to say that all of us at one time or another has said something in our lifetime that others find offensive; perhaps not in relation to adoption, but in other ways. I know that my years participating in this forum I’ve been called on ways that I’ve chosen to phrase things. I’ve been called on the fact that I’ve hurt someone before by a careless word or two. And, it will probably happen again. However, I’ve learned from those mistakes. I’ve learned from reading these pages about others’ perspectives. I’ve grown as a person from my time here and I’ve learned empathy towards those members waiting for a placement and those members who have lived their lives as adoptees.

In this case it frustrates me that so many posters have explained why the term “ex” offends them and yet there is a rush to defend those that have posted it – like we didn’t get why the term was being used – we’re just not that bright. It further marginalizes those of us who have gone through the pain of relinquishment to be told that we hold “all the cards”, that we should just take offensive terminology in the spirit it is given and let it go. BTW, no one was saying not to be “gentle” when pointing out why such a term is hurtful…but I would like to point out that there are countless threads on this forum where adoptive parents come up with smart a** responses to all sorts of questions about their children’s adoptions. I guess that that’s all ok, it’s just venting. I get that and I rarely intrude on those vents, but for the disenfranchised side of triad, we should just put up and shut up. We’ll be gentle because we hold the power. Gag.

[RavenSong]

Paige, very well said, as usual...

[SchmennaLeigh]

I was away all day.

But I laughed out loud when I read that birth parents have the upper hand.


Tell that to my friend who was told that if she DIDN'T relinquish that her parents would be sued for the money used for her healthcare and boarding. Tell that to any mother who has felt coerced by language, agencies or attorneys. Tell that to any birth mother who feels forced to walk on eggshells out of fear that she will never again hear of or speak to her relinquished child.

Upper hand my doopa. That's all I have to say about that.

And to proudmum:

Go ahead and do a search on this forum (entire forum, not just this specific niche) for rants from adoptive families regarding terms like real and natural mother. Why are we not to be afforded the same space? What makes us less "right" to discuss it? What gives us less of a right to discuss our feelings? Nothing. We're just following in the footsteps of those who have come before us and questioning something that bothers us. Why does that bother you? Do you have an issue with our emotions? What specifically has bothered you about our plight as opposed to the plight of those dealing with real/natural mom terminology?

[Vogi2002]

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

ex mom???

I don't like it at all. Of course I would hate to say it but I can't guarentee I didn't type it out in a hurry and not even realize it...I don't think I would as I'm SUPER lazy so that extra "x" would be a wast of a finger poke to me vs emom.

Funny though...adopter I hate...makes me sound like some super hero...or just an action....but I have heard others use it & KNOW they didn't mean harm. Doesn't mean I wasn't offended or wanted to choke them. Okay maybe choke is harsh....slightly mangle? Ever so gently smack on the forehead??

Aparent being spelled AP make me want to gag too..but because I think of AP tests...NO good. LOL!

[SchmennaLeigh]

Originally Posted by Vogi2002

Aparent being spelled AP make me want to gag too..but because I think of AP tests...NO good. LOL!

*smirk* Ditto that. Gosh. Hated those.

And I forgot to add on my previous post: No, not knowing that it is offensive is not an excuse that I'm going to buy. Perhaps its not their fault exactly. This is where adoption agencies and attorneys and propaganda are dropping the ball. Families are not being educated on the ins and outs of adoption. They are not being taught anything about what an expectant mother considering adoption thinks or feels. They are only taught how to appeal to that mother. (By and large, not all. I have learned recently of a few good programs through agencies and I give them my kudos! KUDOS!) After relinquishment, these families (birth and adoptive members alike) are not taught how to communicate in any efficient or respectful manner. They're left to flounder on their own.

And that's the sickening truth of it all.

Yes. Words hurt. When people don't take the time to think about what they're saying, people get hurt. Not knowing how it will affect another person is NOT an excuse for hurting someone. It's just not. If I was to insult someone, I'd say, "SORRY."

Furthermore, I have a question:

Are those referring to their potential child's expectant mother as an "exmom" calling her that to her face? Because, as much as I love my daughter's parents, if anyone had referred to me as an exmom, either online or to my face, I'd have turned and ran. And that was back in the day before I knew that I shouldn't yet be referred to as a birth mother. But no one was going to tell me that I was an ex -mother while that child was still in my womb! Give me a break. And, so, yes, I'd be interested to know how these "exmoms" feel.

[proudmum]

Originally Posted by SchmennaLeigh

And to proudmum:

Go ahead and do a search on this forum (entire forum, not just this specific niche) for rants from adoptive families regarding terms like real and natural mother. Why are we not to be afforded the same space? What makes us less "right" to discuss it? What gives us less of a right to discuss our feelings? Nothing. We're just following in the footsteps of those who have come before us and questioning something that bothers us. Why does that bother you? Do you have an issue with our emotions? What specifically has bothered you about our plight as opposed to the plight of those dealing with real/natural mom terminology?

I dont have an issue with your emotions at all! why should i, they are yours. What i cant figure out is why you have taken ex-mom ( describing a expectant mom & i dont think ex-mom is an appropriate term at all) to be a personal attack on you as a birthmother..saying that ex-mom makes you less of a person etc, when you know that the op that you talk of was meaning emom ( and wrote it the wrong way) ,,,, now if the op had meant ex-mom= bmom then i would be right there with you telling them that that term is beyond offensive,,,,,i dont think it should be used to describe anyone as it is confusing and doesnt sound great,,, so i agree with you all on that,,,.. i am not attacking bmoms,,, i do have issues with some terminology on this site,,, but you know that this person shortened expectant mom the wrong way,,,,, how is this telling you that you are an ex-mom. and also shortening a word ( the wrong way i might add) is completely different to coming up with a word to describe someone.(eg if the person had used ex-mom to describe a biomother)
Yes ex-mom to desribe a bmom is disgusting.....

also i have been guilty of using the wrong terminology myself,,, when i first started posting here there were quite a few of us using " our bmom" someone very kindly pointed out that that term was offensive to them and why,,, i completely saw where they were coming from, appologised and explained that it was not meant in that way what-so-ever and i have never used it again....,,, now saying to this person that ex-mom could come across as derogatory would be very helpful to everyone that is reading the forums.

What it comes down to is "YOU" are the childs mother and "I" am the childs mother ,, thats just the truth of it all really isnt it ?

[quantum]

Oooh I never thought of adopter as a term...it's like between the Adopter and Womb Woman we have our own superhero fighting evil team!
I guess the key is X-mom would be the badguy? (please please realise I'm saying this with wink)

It's a shame we can't all just be mom, that just gets confusing here though doesn't it.

[starryeyes]

I'd never use the term ex mom; I prefer to use "first mom" or even "natural mom". That doesn't make me feel like a "second mom" or "unnatural mom" as an adoptive parent, just a mom. However, I have also been guilty of using the term "real mother" to describe his "first mom" especially when he first came home. Thankfully, I don't slip up like that anymore. I should add, I don't like Adopter, but adoptive mom, but that's just personal preference for me and not offensive to hear Adopter.

[SchmennaLeigh]

Originally Posted by proudmum

I dont have an issue with your emotions at all! why should i, they are yours. What i cant figure out is why you have taken ex-mom ( describing a expectant mom & i dont think ex-mom is an appropriate term at all) to be a personal attack on you as a birthmother..saying that ex-mom makes you less of a person etc, when you know that the op that you talk of was meaning emom ( and wrote it the wrong way) ,,,, now if the op had meant ex-mom= bmom then i would be right there with you telling them that that term is beyond offensive,,,,,i dont think it should be used to describe anyone as it is confusing and doesnt sound great,,, so i agree with you all on that,,,.. i am not attacking bmoms,,, i do have issues with some terminology on this site,,, but you know that this person shortened expectant mom the wrong way,,,,, how is this telling you that you are an ex-mom. and also shortening a word ( the wrong way i might add) is completely different to coming up with a word to describe someone.(eg if the person had used ex-mom to describe a biomother)
Yes ex-mom to desribe a bmom is disgusting.....

also i have been guilty of using the wrong terminology myself,,, when i first started posting here there were quite a few of us using " our bmom" someone very kindly pointed out that that term was offensive to them and why,,, i completely saw where they were coming from, appologised and explained that it was not meant in that way what-so-ever and i have never used it again....,,, now saying to this person that ex-mom could come across as derogatory would be very helpful to everyone that is reading the forums.

What it comes down to is "YOU" are the childs mother and "I" am the childs mother ,, thats just the truth of it all really isnt it ?

You can't figure out why I take offense? Imagine I started calling all adoptive parents Second Moms. Or Second Best Moms. Or Ungenuine Moms.

More over, read back over my posts and find me on instance where I mention myself taking offense for myself as an already-birth mother. I have said, from the first on, words like "they" to refer to these expectant mothers who are being referred to as exmoms. If you'd like to argue semantics, go right ahead. I'm a pro at that game after being told, time and time again, that people won't use the phrases I prefer with regard to my own adoption story. I take offense for these expectant mothers. I am championing for expectant mothers here. Go read.

These mothers who are considering relinquishment are one of the main reasons I am pushing for system wide reform in the adoption world. I was treated horribly. I was coerced. I was lied to. I wasn't told my rights. I wasn't given a chance to fight for myself or my child. And it makes me physically ill to see them STILL being treated in the same ways, if not worse, five years departed from my negative experience. Shouldn't something have changed?

Yes, I make these mothers important in my life because they are important in adoption. If no one steps up to help them, who will? The adoption world treats them as a hot commodity... until they've birthed the child and then they're tossed out with the trash. And I'm sick and tired of that tossing them out starting BEFORE they birth the child. Which is what this term is stating.

So you can "not understand" all you want. It speaks volumes of how this world doesn't even want to look at the reform that is necessary to help these expectant parents navigating the adoption world. But I'm still going to push the envelope and speak up for them. I'm still going to keep pursuing reform. I'm still going to stand up tall and refuse to let them be treated as I was by unethical agencies and attorneys. I'm going to push for all members of the pre-adoption triad to receive the necessary counseling. And that's the main point, over and over again, that unethical agencies and attorneys are dropping the ball. They're neglecting to teach families, expectant, birth and adoptive alike, about the importance of words, respect and communication. And I will keep talking out until I see the majority of adoptions and families coming out on the other side with the education they need to succeed.

Argue me all you want but arguments againts educating our families more don't really hold a lot of water for me.

[paigeturner]

Jenna:

Bravo!